Harley vs BMW comparison by the Michigan State Highway Patrol - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 43 Old Jul 15th, 2007, 11:17 pm Thread Starter
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Talking Harley vs BMW comparison by the Michigan State Highway Patrol

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. All I know about the evaluation is what's in the article, that a friend sent me.
I bet the folks at BMW would love this!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_182665_7.pdf
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post #2 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 12:11 pm
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This looks very much like the results that the cops at the Victoria, B.C. Police Department had when they tested a Harley, ST1300, and the Beemer. They ended up adding the ST1300 to their fleet. Harley was dead last in everything.
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post #3 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 1:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkusny
I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. All I know about the evaluation is what's in the article, that a friend sent me.
I bet the folks at BMW would love this!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_182665_7.pdf


good thing they did not compare a buell

ergonomics would not be as good, but cost of maintence and handling would be superior to the rt, the buell has no ABS though, so that is a no brainer

Too bad Hd still does not make the FXRP now that they have abs it would at elast be in the running somewhat.

I am still amazed that anyone compares a Glide to a sport touring bike though, there is just NO comparison.
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post #4 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 1:50 pm
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Ah, you're right - from a motorcyclists viewpoint. But what they're doing here is comparing 'Police Motorcycles'.

What would be a better question is why is HD fielding an Electra Glide against a Sport Touring machine in this market.

Not the testers fault at all - that's what the manufacturers offered 'em.


Didn't Barney Fife ride a Road King?

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post #5 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 2:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotter
Ah, you're right - from a motorcyclists viewpoint. But what they're doing here is comparing 'Police Motorcycles'.

What would be a better question is why is HD fielding an Electra Glide against a Sport Touring machine in this market.

Not the testers fault at all - that's what the manufacturers offered 'em.


Didn't Barney Fife ride a Road King?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hahaha that is a good one!

I guess they have to test them if they are submitted, there just is no comparison at all.
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post #6 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 2:18 pm
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Quote:
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Didn't Barney Fife ride a Road King?
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post #7 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 2:32 pm
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I don't think it was a Harley, in the episode where Barney gets a motorcycle it looks to be an old WWII army suplus bike with side car. It aired a few weeks ago

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post #8 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 3:42 pm
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Does not matter.

I belong to a motorcop web site and posted the test there and I got some reply back saying that it does not who came on top. Harley will always be number #1 at some departments, no matter what.

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post #9 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 4:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I belong to a motorcop web site and posted the test there and I got some reply back saying that it does not who came on top. Harley will always be number #1 at some departments, no matter what.
Ask them if they still use muzzleloaders also

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post #10 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 4:07 pm
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What I have learned.

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Ask them if they still use muzzleloaders also

Joe
Here on this web site I do not get into it about speeding tickets and over on that site I do not compare how better an RTP is over a HD.

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post #11 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 7:09 pm
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WTF??

Situational awareness? Man, could almost think you'd been trained or sumthin

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post #12 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 7:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I belong to a motorcop web site and posted the test there and I got some reply back saying that it does not who came on top. Harley will always be number #1 at some departments, no matter what.
the only reason harley is #1 at some departments. "political"
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post #13 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 7:53 pm
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Bought mine from the MI state patrol driving instructor

I bought my 2002 LT from one of the MI Highway Patrol training officers. One of the comments he made was that they would prefer to ride RT's, but being in the heart of America meant being stuck on HD. Yes, it is completely a political decision.
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post #14 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 8:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I belong to a motorcop web site and posted the test there and I got some reply back saying that it does not who came on top. Harley will always be number #1 at some departments, no matter what.
My grandfather used to say something like " A man proved wrong against his will is of the same mind ever still". I guess it fits here.

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post #15 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 8:59 pm
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Just a question here, but why would any dept. use motorcycles for pursuit? Especially one at over 100mph? That's just asking for some idiot to run your officer off the road, isn't it? I'd assume there are qualities other than outright performance that are measured, with that in mind; Comfort, safety (ease of use), storage, pricing, resale value, maint. costs. etc. I wouldn't outfit my officers with pursuit motorcycles, and if I did, you could bet it wouldn't be an HD or a BMW as there are so many other bikes that can run rings around either one of them.
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post #16 of 43 Old Jul 16th, 2007, 10:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
good thing they did not compare a buell

ergonomics would not be as good, but cost of maintence and handling would be superior to the rt, the buell has no ABS though, so that is a no brainer

Too bad Hd still does not make the FXRP now that they have abs it would at elast be in the running somewhat.

I am still amazed that anyone compares a Glide to a sport touring bike though, there is just NO comparison.
We had the FXR-P's in the mid 80's, not sure when they stopped making them, but they were pure unadulterated junk then! One of the most uncomfortable police bikes I ever rode!

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post #17 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 3:11 am
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and I have no problem with that

Quote:
Originally Posted by danbrown
the only reason harley is #1 at some departments. "political"
Personally, I'd rather have all gov't agencies buy strictly US-built equipment. I'm not a fan of our tax dollars being shipped overseas.

Me, I'd rather buy the RT-P, but I'd rather the gov't purchase the HD. Keep our tax money within our borders and help our economy and our workforce.

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post #18 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:49 am
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The word pursuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Just a question here, but why would any dept. use motorcycles for pursuit? Especially one at over 100mph? That's just asking for some idiot to run your officer off the road, isn't it? I'd assume there are qualities other than outright performance that are measured, with that in mind; Comfort, safety (ease of use), storage, pricing, resale value, maint. costs. etc. I wouldn't outfit my officers with pursuit motorcycles, and if I did, you could bet it wouldn't be an HD or a BMW as there are so many other bikes that can run rings around either one of them.
JM2CW
It is not the top end, but the get up and go power. If you running radar on an interstate with the speed limit 75mph and you clock some one going 90 mph, believe you are going to have to go over 100 to catch them. So what motorcycle would rather have???? To chase one down for speeding is not a pursuit, but a traffic stop.

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post #19 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhanna
We had the FXR-P's in the mid 80's, not sure when they stopped making them, but they were pure unadulterated junk then! One of the most uncomfortable police bikes I ever rode!

too bad they have not updated them, it could be a darn fine bike. but they have thier image to hold on to ya know

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post #20 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 10:06 am
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Originally Posted by motorman587
It is not the top end, but the get up and go power. If you running radar on an interstate with the speed limit 75mph and you clock some one going 90 mph, believe you are going to have to go over 100 to catch them. So what motorcycle would rather have???? To chase one down for speeding is not a pursuit, but a traffic stop.
Whoa! You guys have 75mph speed limits?! Oh man! I wish Connecticut would get with the program and put the speed limits up where everyone already drives. ($$$$$$$$$$ )
I see your point about having to catch up with a speeder. More speed would definitely be better. It's hard for me to wrap my head around cops doing 130mph+ to catch up with someone speeding though. It seems awfully fast for folks to be going routinely without risking a serious crash. Maybe it would be better to run two officers so the second one a couple miles down the road could pull over the offender? That way the speeds would be much more manageable, as well as having a quick first response in the event of a crash.

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post #21 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 10:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I belong to a motorcop web site and posted the test there and I got some reply back saying that it does not who came on top. Harley will always be number #1 at some departments, no matter what.
The same thing happened in Ohio: the State Patrol chose Harley for their new motor unit even after seeing similar comparison results. The reason: the CO is a die-hard HD fan. Let's not confuse the issue with facts...

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post #22 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by hschisler
The same thing happened in Ohio: the State Patrol chose Harley for their new motor unit even after seeing similar comparison results. The reason: the CO is a die-hard HD fan. Let's not confuse the issue with facts...
What about HD does he admire? He must have had something to bring to the powers responsible for the buying decision, other than it being his personal favorite?

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post #23 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by Heracleitus
Personally, I'd rather have all gov't agencies buy strictly US-built equipment. I'm not a fan of our tax dollars being shipped overseas.

Me, I'd rather buy the RT-P, but I'd rather the gov't purchase the HD. Keep our tax money within our borders and help our economy and our workforce.
And you are posting from where????? I don't think the German gvt would ever be nuts enough to buy their guys HD's.

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post #24 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 12:19 pm
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It's hard for me to wrap my head around cops doing 130mph+ to catch up with someone speeding though. It seems awfully fast for folks to be going routinely without risking a serious crash.
We've never ridden together, have we?
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post #25 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 12:55 pm
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Whoa! You guys have 75mph speed limits?! Oh man! I wish Connecticut would get with the program and put the speed limits up where everyone already drives. ($$$$$$$$$$ )
There are portions of Texas with 85mph speed limits!



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post #26 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 1:51 pm
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I may live in Germany. . .

Quote:
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And you are posting from where????? I don't think the German gvt would ever be nuts enough to buy their guys HD's.

I'm still a US citizen. I still pay US taxes. I still would prefer that my tax $$ supported the US economy and not some other one (German with RT-P or Japanese with the Kawasaki KZP). Sure, there are some cases where the US just simply makes an inferior product and we must purchase from elsewhere albeit rarely. What the HDs trail the BMW (or Kawis, if they do at all) isn't enough to lug that cash out of our country.

As for the German gov't, they do only buy the RT-P.

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post #27 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 2:05 pm
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I'm still a US citizen. I still pay US taxes. I still would prefer that my tax $$ supported the US economy and not some other one (German with RT-P or Japanese with the Kawasaki KZP). Sure, there are some cases where the US just simply makes an inferior product and we must purchase from elsewhere albeit rarely. What the HDs trail the BMW (or Kawis, if they do at all) isn't enough to lug that cash out of our country.
I've always been a bit confused by this argument. Not confused by YOUR point of view, but from the "facts" financially speaking.

Your argument seems like it's built on the premise that H-Ds are an American product, and that all of the money stays here at home. But is that really the truth? We all know that a Harley's parts are becoming more & more out-sourced and the bikes are simply assembled in America. At that point, I really don't see much difference in buying a Beemer or a Harley. And what about all of the red-blooded Americans working at the BMW shops? Surely they are just as much a part of our economy as the H-D boys and girls.
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post #28 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 3:37 pm
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I agree to a point

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I've always been a bit confused by this argument. Not confused by YOUR point of view, but from the "facts" financially speaking.

Your argument seems like it's built on the premise that H-Ds are an American product, and that all of the money stays here at home. But is that really the truth? We all know that a Harley's parts are becoming more & more out-sourced and the bikes are simply assembled in America. At that point, I really don't see much difference in buying a Beemer or a Harley. And what about all of the red-blooded Americans working at the BMW shops? Surely they are just as much a part of our economy as the H-D boys and girls.
Yepper, BMW dealerships and service centers in the US certainly are a part of the economy.

I don't have (nor am I willing to put forth the effort to find out ) a single shred of evidence to back up this next argument, but it seems to be logical conjecture: Other than the engine and actual assembly, probably little of an HD bike is manufactured in the US. However, none of the BMW is. This would lead me to prefer the gov't to buy HD over BMW.

Then you get into the whole "stakeholder" argument. Who owns each corp? What other corporations benefit from the sale of either bike? Which towns/communities benefit from the jobs produced not only by HD and BMW (and their service agencies) but also from the previously mentioned satellite companies (part manufacturers, distributors, etc). My assumption would be that the HD would produce more for the US economy than the BMW. I could be completely wrong here (not an uncommon condition), but I still have confidence in my argument.

On a completely different vein, I bet the Honda ST1300PA would out accelerate and top-end any of the three bikes tested in that article.

Personally, I'd still take the RT-P, but I'm biased.

Oh, and before anyone goes thinking that I'm anti-overseas purchase or investment, I am not. But I do think that our government should buy locally first.

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post #29 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 4:48 pm
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I lied.

The interstate speeds are only 70 mph. I was trying to get my point across. I am on a city kitty and the highest speed limit we have is 55 mph. We have had a motor go after a guy clocked going 90 mph in 45 mph. Was only caught after the speeder stopped for a red light. The motor officer could not catch him until the read light. The area, traffic, was to dangerous to go his speed. When we go after somebody, some of us do take in account, is the stop worth the violation. I have many times let some one go because I would of cause too much of a traffic problem, too dangous etc....... They were let go.

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post #30 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 4:48 pm
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We tired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracleitus
Yepper, BMW dealerships and service centers in the US certainly are a part of the economy.

I don't have (nor am I willing to put forth the effort to find out ) a single shred of evidence to back up this next argument, but it seems to be logical conjecture: Other than the engine and actual assembly, probably little of an HD bike is manufactured in the US. However, none of the BMW is. This would lead me to prefer the gov't to buy HD over BMW.

Then you get into the whole "stakeholder" argument. Who owns each corp? What other corporations benefit from the sale of either bike? Which towns/communities benefit from the jobs produced not only by HD and BMW (and their service agencies) but also from the previously mentioned satellite companies (part manufacturers, distributors, etc). My assumption would be that the HD would produce more for the US economy than the BMW. I could be completely wrong here (not an uncommon condition), but I still have confidence in my argument.

On a completely different vein, I bet the Honda ST1300PA would out accelerate and top-end any of the three bikes tested in that article.

Personally, I'd still take the RT-P, but I'm biased.

Oh, and before anyone goes thinking that I'm anti-overseas purchase or investment, I am not. But I do think that our government should buy locally first.
We tried to get Honda to put in a bid and they did not.

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post #31 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 5:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracleitus
Yepper, BMW dealerships and service centers in the US certainly are a part of the economy.

I don't have (nor am I willing to put forth the effort to find out ) a single shred of evidence to back up this next argument, but it seems to be logical conjecture: Other than the engine and actual assembly, probably little of an HD bike is manufactured in the US. However, none of the BMW is. This would lead me to prefer the gov't to buy HD over BMW.

Oh, and before anyone goes thinking that I'm anti-overseas purchase or investment, I am not. But I do think that our government should buy locally first.
actually more of the hd is made in america than you would think, it is actually better now than it used to be, yes there is still out of country outsourcing don't get me wrong
in fact the company my wife works for actually makes some parts for HD.

I, as you would prefer our tax dollars pay for american made products still.
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post #32 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 6:02 pm
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Maybe 30 years ago HD had allot of it made in the US,, but not for several years...... Frame, electrics, total font end is Showa, relays Bosch, some sheet metal and fiberglass in Canada...........

The most American MADE brand now is Honda with Kawasaki a close second.................

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post #33 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 8:40 pm
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post #34 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:22 pm
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On a completely different vein, I bet the Honda ST1300PA would out accelerate and top-end any of the three bikes tested in that article.

Personally, I'd still take the RT-P, but I'm biased.

Oh, and before anyone goes thinking that I'm anti-overseas purchase or investment, I am not. But I do think that our government should buy locally first.
But then there are the stability problems the 1300STPs had in England ?

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post #35 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:36 pm
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We've never ridden together, have we?
Nope. But I'll race ya anytime ya want!
I'm actually not against going fast, just not routinely.

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post #36 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:39 pm
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There are portions of Texas with 85mph speed limits!
In CT the law is that anything over 80 (on the highway, not on local roads) it's the officer's discretion whether or not to arrest you for reckless driving. Needless to say, if you're tagged for 85mph or whatnot you're REALLY courteous to the officer

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post #37 of 43 Old Jul 17th, 2007, 9:59 pm
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Question???

BREMBO ABS, is that American???????????????

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post #38 of 43 Old Jul 19th, 2007, 1:07 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
BREMBO ABS, is that American???????????????
It is an Italian company.

Yes, I guess I feed the trolls sometimes.

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post #39 of 43 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 8:49 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Maybe 30 years ago HD had allot of it made in the US,, but not for several years...... Frame, electrics, total font end is Showa, relays Bosch, some sheet metal and fiberglass in Canada...........

The most American MADE brand now is Honda with Kawasaki a close second.................
this information is incorrect

Honda like HD in assembled here, actually less of it actually being manufactured here from my current understanding.

but face it nothing is 100% american anymore
with EPA restricitons, unions and just flat ol greed. everyhting has outsourcing
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post #40 of 43 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 8:50 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
There are portions of Texas with 85mph speed limits!
Where? it darn sure ain't on 40 or 20
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post #41 of 43 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 9:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
Where? it darn sure ain't on 40 or 20
LOL, you ani't lying there! IH10 west of Kerville. Zipidy do da.



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post #42 of 43 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 3:37 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrider
Ask them if they still use muzzleloaders also?
And what's wrong with muzzleloaders?! There are plenty of us that are still old school. OK, OK, I nutted up and could not hold a straight face!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracleitus
Personally, I'd rather have all gov't agencies buy strictly US-built equipment. I'm not a fan of our tax dollars being shipped overseas. Me, I'd rather buy the RT-P, but I'd rather the gov't purchase the HD. Keep our tax money within our borders and help our economy and our workforce.
There are quite a few governmental agencies that will only buy "domestic." If "domestic" builds an inferior product however, then governmental agency is not doing anyone any favors!
Quote:
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You don't have to be fast when you have a Motorola....
I've had several crotch rockets outrun my Motorola.

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post #43 of 43 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 6:05 am
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The speed limit in west Texas on interstates is 80.
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