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post #1 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 12:33 am Thread Starter
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Cager Brake Lights

"Good judgment comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgment."

Just some advice my Dad gave me. His other great advice while riding was "Assume you're invisible, no one else can see you". Everyone is about to cut you off.

My wife and I went on a little 2,100 mile jaunt over the weekend (Memorial Day). I have always prided my self in my 200k miles of riding to assume the worst, so never any broken bones.

Always assumed I was invisible, and dressed for the crash. I now have a NEW assumption: the cage in front of you doesn't have brake lights!

We were cruising along Highway 299 in Northern CA, at the speed limit (65 MPH), allowing several car lengths between me and the car in front of me. He missed his turn, and stood on his brakes; normally for me, not an issue. Only problem for me was he had no brake lights, and in that split second it took me to determine that he was braking HARD, I was right up on him.

2 up and loaded, the LT doesn't stop as fast as I'd have liked in this situation; I was braking as hard as I could (ABS engaged). In a split second, I realized that I was NOT going to stop in time; so I released the brakes, and threaded the needle - right between him and the on-coming traffic.

The funny thing was, my wife didn't freak out at all. All she said was, "Glad you're a good rider". Of course, I was plenty upset, and was mad at the idiot without brake lights.

But the fact remains, if we'd had an accident, it would have been MY fault because I am responsible for my Pillion.

From now on, I ride with a two-part assumption: I am invisible, and no one has brake lights.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #2 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 1:05 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
"From now on, I ride with a two-part assumption: I am invisible, and no one has brake lights.
Around here you'd be correct 80% of the time. Can't count the number of times I've been behind someone with no brake lights, and a few of those times were pretty hairy. Glad you made it out/around without incident (other than the seat cushion disapperaing).
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post #3 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 4:06 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
"Good judgment comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgment."

From now on, I ride with a two-part assumption: I am invisible, and no one has brake lights.
Next time, maybe shithead with be lucky enough to pull that stunt with a fully loaded semi behind him!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #4 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 8:20 am
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We are in a town without a bunch of heavy traffic but we go to the bigger towns fairly often. When I get to an area where I am going to slow down because of traffic, I find a car that I have already seen the break lights on and stay behind him. I can also watch through the car window to the car in front of him. I like to think that it helps me. I also try to avoid any pick-ups and vans because I cannot see in front of them.

"BONES" <///><
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post #5 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 8:34 am
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Valuable lesson Brian.. and you did good by taking evasive action.

Might I "suggest" that your assumptions be "no indications from others are "correct", only their actions." .... "Actions speak louder than words"...

...............
J.M.J...
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post #6 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 8:52 am
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Good post with many excellent points. Glad your skills served you well when needed. Like you, I am always on the lookout for how someone/everyone is going to get me and ride accordingly. No brake lights, one more thing to go into the mental checklist.

Malcolm McGee
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post #7 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 8:52 am
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Another axiom that I live by is if I'm at an intersection or any turning location and I see a vehicle with their turnsignal on, the only thing that means is that someone has their turnsignal on - not that they are actually going to make a turn.

Of course, someone using their turnsignal for its actual, intended purpose is a rarity anyway.

Alex H Lindsay
Melbourne, FL
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post #8 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 9:16 am
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Scary stuff Brian. Glad to hear you came out of it okay. Another item to add to my mental checklist.

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post #9 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 9:45 am Thread Starter
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I had the best teacher in my Dad for riding. We never had anything smaller than a 500cc BMW when I was a kid. His mantra was "Never assume you have the right-of-way, but have enough reserve power so you can TAKE it if you have to".

I've gotten out of many a scrape over the years by not having an under-powered bike. Of course, power didn't help me here. I am just pointing out that having my Dad train, train, TRAIN me for weeks in a large plant parking lot on the weekends for several weeks before allowing me to ride on the street has paid off. That was over 30 years ago, and you wouldn't believe how many of his "Safety Phrases" I still remember.

On the other side of the coin, I am sure that the bulk of MC fatailities are with inexperienced riders. Parents wonder why their son is maimed (or worse) just a week after getting him that 150 horsepower crotch-rocket for his 18th birthday, with no training at all, just because he was a good dirt bike rider (or even a good bicycle rider).

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #10 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 9:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alindsay
Another axiom that I live by is if I'm at an intersection or any turning location and I see a vehicle with their turnsignal on, the only thing that means is that someone has their turnsignal on - not that they are actually going to make a turn.

Of course, someone using their turnsignal for its actual, intended purpose is a rarity anyway.
My dad always said that " a woman driver with her turn signal on is letting you know she is about to do something" - no idea what it might be - but something. Of course he never said this to my mom.

Glad everything worked out for halzee.

Lee Nowell
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post #11 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 10:03 am
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Glad you and your SO are ok, and came through unscathed.

Defensive driving is EVERYTHING, especially here in Florida, where brake lights, signal lights, and sometimes even headlights, seem to be a very expensive option even on the most affluent vehicles.

Lexus, Cadillac, Audi, and even BMW should include these items as standard equipement, but for some reason the manufacturers just want to sell them as add on's.

I see mirrors on the outside and inside of these vehicles also, but there must be an extra cost involved to activate them ( but free to use if applying makeup, or looking for salad bits in the false teeth ).

Ride safe.

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post #12 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 10:10 am Thread Starter
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Thanks Ryder.

I have a friend that lives outside Miami. He says the worst problem is the retirees - and not just because "old people can't drive".

The problem there is these old guys that never even had a car in NY, move to FL, and then learn to drive at 68!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
IBA #31242 (SSx2, BB, BBG)
MOA #136148

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post #13 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 4:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
"Good judgment comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgment."

Just some advice my Dad gave me. His other great advice while riding was "Assume you're invisible, no one else can see you". Everyone is about to cut you off.

...

But the fact remains, if we'd had an accident, it would have been MY fault because I am responsible for my Pillion.

From now on, I ride with a two-part assumption: I am invisible, and no one has brake lights.
Sent chills... Glad everything was OK...

I was told once that flashing turn indicators on a car are only right about 20% of the time. I keep that in mind... But your experience has my focus a little more adjusted! With your permission, I am going to adopt your two-part assumption...

Uncle Mark

BMW '06' 1200LT "Wild Blue"
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post #14 of 26 Old May 31st, 2007, 11:46 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleMark
With your permission, I am going to adopt your two-part assumption...
You may adopt my assumption; you may also adopt my daughter's dog if you'd like...

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #15 of 26 Old Jun 1st, 2007, 5:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
....you may also adopt my daughter's dog if you'd like....
WTF?! I thought I misfired AGAIN--but this time to "bmwSPCAlt.com!"

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #16 of 26 Old Jun 1st, 2007, 10:48 am
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Good post Brian. All very good points! Well . . . I think I need to make exception to one. You stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
But the fact remains, if we'd had an accident, it would have been MY fault because I am responsible for my Pillion.
I disagree with that. You can't hold yourself accountable to every Yahoo out there. Yes, it's important to hold yourself responsible for what you can control. But there are just too many other variables out there that we as riders have zero control over.
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post #17 of 26 Old Jun 1st, 2007, 10:55 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Good post Brian. All very good points! Well . . . I think I need to make exception to one. You stated:I disagree with that. You can't hold yourself accountable to every Yahoo out there. Yes, it's important to hold yourself responsible for what you can control. But there are just too many other variables out there that we as riders have zero control over.
If something had have happened to my wife, I would always have blamed myself. At first, I wanted to go back and introduce my crest ring on my right hand to that idiot without brake lights. But the more I thought about it, the more I dwelled that the passenger has ALL of their trust in the driver, not even a seatbelt. I have been accused of being an airbag...

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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MOA #136148

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post #18 of 26 Old Jun 4th, 2007, 7:58 am
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Glad you made it thru that one. I agree that as the "pilot" we are responsible for safety of passenger. It's an unfortunate fact that everyone is responsible for traffic safety. that means as motorists, we should all be responsible, but unfortunately, not everyone is. Fromlack of lighting to plain old stupid moves.

Glad you made it.
Randy
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post #19 of 26 Old Jun 4th, 2007, 9:49 am
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No break lights on my bike either !

I was just thinking the other day as I slowed down without really breaking, just letting off on the gas, and how the driver behind me would not know that was what I was doing. I touched my brakes to let them know, but wonder if this is a problem. Never gave it much thought. MAYBE we are part of the problem too.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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post #20 of 26 Old Jun 4th, 2007, 11:26 pm
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A break light won't help you if the cage in front hits something and comes to an immediate stop. I've always viewed brake lights as a nice luxury, kind of like turn signals. I make an evasive maneuver daily thanks to cages doing something they shouldn't, did so twice today mof. I just try to create as much space and stay as visible as possible and expect the unexpected.

Ghaison (Jason)
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Bluefield, VA
Sometimes you can get so fixated on the fact that you are right that you lose sight of the reality that it doesn't matter.
-some guy named Ghaison circa 2002


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post #21 of 26 Old May 7th, 2009, 11:46 pm
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Re: Cager Brake Lights

lady in front of me today, coming up on an intersection.... as soon as it turned yellow she locked 'em up, stopping 1/2 car length past the stop line...wth?

I grabbed a handful of brake and stopped in time just to the left rear of her minivan with a loud WTF LADY?.. I could see she was visibly shaken...

always be ready for idiots to stop in the middle of the road for any reason they can think of... changing lanes is another one, but, I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure.

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post #22 of 26 Old Jun 1st, 2009, 11:37 pm
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Cager didn't notice MY Brake Lights!!

[IMG][/IMG][IMG]I'm really bummed!

This past Friday I was heading to work with a truck to my front and a Ford Escape to my rear when we came upon a highway feeder street stop sign. Lead truck stopped, allowed two cars to pass and he took off.....I moved up to his spot at the intersection, planted my feet, turned my head left to check traffic and BAM!!! The idiot to my rear decided to continue looking left and noticed there weren't any cars and floored it......the back of my LT was his brake and I was thrown back against my "Back Up" back rest and then catapulted...more like ejected....into the right lane in the intersection....with the good fortune of no oncoming cars in the right lane!! I quickly sprung to my feet and with absolute amazement I was relatively unscathed.....but the bike took it hard. I charged the guy behind me and after about a minute or two of yelling tons of explicatives

that I thought I even forgot, I looked back with pure sadness at the damage to my spotless bike. The right side container crushed, trunk had scratches, taillight lens cracked, license plate plastic busted, left container scratched, and (since I wound up dumping left) the bumper and chrome (front and rear) were both trashed, my footpeg scratched, and my gear shift bent.......I was fit to be tied! Oh, and it "veed" his front end, punctured his radiator, and crumpled his hood!!

The first call was to the police (figured they needed to get there fast or I was really going to throttle this SUV wannabe that was attempting to apologize)! The next call was to the wife....who quickly stated that if its totaled I wasn't getting a replacement ....the last call was to my insurance agent....begging him not to total the bike!!!

My insurance agent squared me away very quick.....he coordinated to have the bike taken to Lone Star Cycle (BMW/Triumph) down in Austin the very next day for the experts to process it through triage....hopefully the prognosis I get in the next day or two is that the bike will only need plastic surgery and no major organ transplants (drive shaft, wheel, swing arm, etc....)!

I'll update the posting when I hear from the BMW Mechanic/Doctor!!

I'm just wondering if the Kisan or Hyper-Lite flashing brake lights would've helped the cager see me better.....if I get the bike back....that's going to be my next farkle!

I'm attaching a couple of pictures of the damage plus a picture (taken pre-bashing) of what I wear whenever I ride (I've been told I look like a highlighter going down the road!).

Ride safe and watch out for all the idiots that aren't looking for us!
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post #23 of 26 Old Jun 2nd, 2009, 6:47 pm
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Re: Cager didn't notice MY Brake Lights!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlauBeeMr
[IMG][/IMG][IMG]I'm really bummed!

This past Friday I was heading to work with a truck to my front and a Ford Escape to my rear when we came upon a highway feeder street stop sign. Lead truck stopped, allowed two cars to pass and he took off.....I moved up to his spot at the intersection, planted my feet, turned my head left to check traffic and BAM!!! The idiot to my rear decided to continue looking left and noticed there weren't any cars and floored it......the back of my LT was his brake and I was thrown back against my "Back Up" back rest and then catapulted...more like ejected....into the right lane in the intersection....with the good fortune of no oncoming cars in the right lane!! I quickly sprung to my feet and with absolute amazement I was relatively unscathed.....but the bike took it hard. I charged the guy behind me and after about a minute or two of yelling tons of explicatives

that I thought I even forgot, I looked back with pure sadness at the damage to my spotless bike. The right side container crushed, trunk had scratches, taillight lens cracked, license plate plastic busted, left container scratched, and (since I wound up dumping left) the bumper and chrome (front and rear) were both trashed, my footpeg scratched, and my gear shift bent.......I was fit to be tied! Oh, and it "veed" his front end, punctured his radiator, and crumpled his hood!!

The first call was to the police (figured they needed to get there fast or I was really going to throttle this SUV wannabe that was attempting to apologize)! The next call was to the wife....who quickly stated that if its totaled I wasn't getting a replacement ....the last call was to my insurance agent....begging him not to total the bike!!!

My insurance agent squared me away very quick.....he coordinated to have the bike taken to Lone Star Cycle (BMW/Triumph) down in Austin the very next day for the experts to process it through triage....hopefully the prognosis I get in the next day or two is that the bike will only need plastic surgery and no major organ transplants (drive shaft, wheel, swing arm, etc....)!

I'll update the posting when I hear from the BMW Mechanic/Doctor!!

I'm just wondering if the Kisan or Hyper-Lite flashing brake lights would've helped the cager see me better.....if I get the bike back....that's going to be my next farkle!

I'm attaching a couple of pictures of the damage plus a picture (taken pre-bashing) of what I wear whenever I ride (I've been told I look like a highlighter going down the road!).

Ride safe and watch out for all the idiots that aren't looking for us!
Greetings, Mr!

I hate to establish any priorities here, BUT, your bike it not the issue. The issue is that you were not seriously hurt in this senseless T/C. Everything else is only money. Easily replaced AND you can't take it with you! Replacing you is a bit harder. I hope it IS totalled so you CAN get a new one. That will piss off the old lady! Best wishes and be safe.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #24 of 26 Old Jun 6th, 2009, 3:11 pm
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Re: Cager Brake Lights

Whoa! Nice course correction - a tribute to your abilities! I also like your new riding assumption! Added to my list!!

Glad you guys are OK.

Jim Taylor
Minneapolis
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post #25 of 26 Old Jun 6th, 2009, 4:49 pm
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Re: Cager didn't notice MY Brake Lights!!

Here's the BMW Doc's prognosis of my bike.....purely cosmetic....only needs $4K of plastic surgery to be taken care of by the guy who hit me! Jaycobson is absolutely right about what is truly important, I did only get away with minor bumps and strains.....the good thing (for me) is the bike wasn't totalled....not a single bit of mechanical or frame damage whatsoever and I should be back on two wheels by 18 June!!

I've also decided to go with the PathBlazer in the front and a combo of the Kisan TailBlazer bulbs, Hyper Lites (UR2 series with 16 LEDs each) and the Back Off Quad LED license plate holder.....it might be a little much, but hopefully it'll get the attention of those in front and back of the bike! I'll upload on youtube once complete.

Ride Safe!


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There are two kinds of motorcyclists.....those that ride BMWs....and those that wish they did!

Later,
BlauBeeMr
1999 Basalt Grau K1200LT

2004 Desert Tan M2A3 (Jul 2005 - Apr 2008)

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post #26 of 26 Old Jun 7th, 2009, 4:43 pm
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Re: Cager didn't notice MY Brake Lights!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlauBeeMr
Here's the BMW Doc's prognosis of my bike.....purely cosmetic....only needs $4K of plastic surgery to be taken care of by the guy who hit me! Jaycobson is absolutely right about what is truly important, I did only get away with minor bumps and strains.....the good thing (for me) is the bike wasn't totalled....not a single bit of mechanical or frame damage whatsoever and I should be back on two wheels by 18 June!!

I've also decided to go with the PathBlazer in the front and a combo of the Kisan TailBlazer bulbs, Hyper Lites (UR2 series with 16 LEDs each) and the Back Off Quad LED license plate holder.....it might be a little much, but hopefully it'll get the attention of those in front and back of the bike! I'll upload on youtube once complete.

Ride Safe!
Glad all is well! Stay safe.....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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