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post #1 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 7:52 pm Thread Starter
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hi-viz vest?

During a long ride last weekend, noticed an r1200gs rider wearing a hi-viz vest -- he was certainly visible! I've also seen riders wearing Stich Hi-Viz jackets that were extremely visible. Seems I'm always looking for new gear or farkles to research and purchase , so...

I'm interested in your thoughts about the effectiveness of a hi-viz vest considering how the LT's topcase or a passenger blocks out much of what the rider is wearing. I wear a grey Santiago jacket, which I like very much, but it cannot be considered highly conspicuous although it does have a bit of reflective material.

Found this article to be interesting: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=387473

So far, if I were to purchase a vest, I think I would go with something from Conspicuity Inc. : http://www.conspicuityinc.com/vests.htm

Thoughts, experiences? Thanks.
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post #2 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 8:46 pm
 
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Just my thoughts...

I think the high-viz vests appear very visible to us riders because we're looking out for bikes and riders anyway. I just don't know how much more conspicuous they make a rider to the average cager. My thought? ZERO difference. They just make you look . . . silly. If they don't see my lights...they ain't gonna see me no matter what color clown vest I'm wearing.

But if you think it'll make you feel more comfortable and/or confident . . . go for it.

My
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post #3 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 8:58 pm
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Lightbulb

Counter-point: a high-viz vest will help tremendously in case of a get-off and you are separated from your bike. Cagers following you will tend to avoid the fallen bike (with all its lights, etc...) and might hit you instead because you are invisible to them in your darker clothes.
Back in the 70s when I still lived in France a new law was enacted stating that new helmets had to include high-viz decals on both sides and the back and that helmets already purchased had to add these decals.

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post #4 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 9:08 pm
 
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Gilles, cagers are going to try to run YOU over no matter what you're wearing! (...and rightfully so!)
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post #5 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 9:40 pm
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I'm using the www.visionvests.com for two up riding, and have been since 1999. Moto lights and the vests help to wake up sleeping cage drivers, as they prepare to run stop signs.

"The idea is to die young as late as possible"

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post #6 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 9:59 pm
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I don't have a hi-viz vest or jacket, but I've been told (unsolicited) by cagers that the reflective strips on the Darien gear are very visible. I've also been told the top case hides a lot of it.

Olympia has new hi-viz vests in yellow and orange for 2007. I've seen them in person and they are definitely eye-catching.

Joe's point about OUR seeing other bikers better than cagers is well-taken, but I can't help but believe that hi-viz gear (color or reflectivity) would be better-noticed by cagers.

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post #7 of 53 Old May 12th, 2007, 10:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Gilles, cagers are going to try to run YOU over no matter what you're wearing! (...and rightfully so!)
Watch out Joe... you might have become a bigger target after your Guinness Gastronomic Tour of the US!

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post #8 of 53 Old May 13th, 2007, 8:55 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Just my thoughts...

I think the high-viz vests appear very visible to us riders because we're looking out for bikes and riders anyway. I just don't know how much more conspicuous they make a rider to the average cager. My thought? ZERO difference. They just make you look . . . silly. If they don't see my lights...they ain't gonna see me no matter what color clown vest I'm wearing.

But if you think it'll make you feel more comfortable and/or confident . . . go for it.

My
While I agree that we as motorcyclists are looking for bikes more than the average cage driver, and that they SHOULD be able to see my HID, PIAAs, Motolights, Flashing LED break lights, Ztechnic rack LED, front running lights and every other conceivable visibility mod I've made to the LT...the fact is that they don't. I still ride like they're out to get me...cause they ARE.

After my crash last year on my Harley because the SUV driver 'didn't see me' I decided to do everything I could do maximize my visibility. Maybe it'll help, maybe it won't. At the very least, I know that I've minimized the risk as much as I could.

This is the jacket I usually wear. (Not the helmet...I was taking a 'Ride Like a Pro' class and only wore the half shell so I could hear the instructor. I wear a white Nolan) I think it DOES help visibility at night.

But like Joe said...it makes me feel more comfortable so I'm all for it. Ride safe.
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post #9 of 53 Old May 13th, 2007, 9:49 am
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Went with three other riders to a local BMW open house (Joe, you know Roman's) a few weeks ago. One of the guys had a flat and we pulled over on the interstate to plug it.

I was sweeper and parted my scoot on the berm. Wearing my vest I noticed that the traffic was starting to pull into the passing lane about a 1/2 mile before our get-together. Guess they could see me!

Just as we were finished inflating the plugged tire, a OH Trooper pulled over to see what was happen'in. I explained that we were just about ready to mount up.

He kept his bubble gummers on until we pulled back into traffic.

I don't mind being seen.
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post #10 of 53 Old May 13th, 2007, 12:39 pm
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While Joe is correct, they do evoke "silly looking" to some people, there is no doubt, in my experience, that they also seem to appear to cagers as part of the uniform of the local LEO, especially from the front.

I notice lots of cages starting to turn left into my right-of-way, suddenly stop and wait for me to go by. I can't wait for a rear-ender to happen because of the suddeness of the stop

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post #11 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 11:05 am
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I´m with Paul on this one, and the reactions I get are the same as Jay´s.

You always seem to have an open road in front of you !.

Safety first is my opinion.
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post #12 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 12:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayz9705
... in my experience, that they also seem to appear to cagers as part of the uniform of the local LEO, especially from the front.

I notice lots of cages starting to turn left into my right-of-way, suddenly stop and wait for me to go by.
Funny, I get the same reaction even without the vest.



Maybe it has something to do with the flashing red and blue lights.
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post #13 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 12:51 pm
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Haven't seen that pic in what, 4 years? Breckenridge, right Joel?

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post #14 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 1:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayz9705
Haven't seen that pic in what, 4 years? Breckenridge, right Joel?
You got it, Jay. That was the loaner bike I used for a day while my LT's front-wheel was being fixed. Messenger13 gets the photo credit.

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post #15 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 4:19 pm
 
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Drivers that can't see your bike WILL NOT see a hi-viz vest... Put reflective tape all over your helmet,,,, tape your horn button on,,,, what ever...........

I have seen an awful lot of Marines killed here in traffic (Jacksonville,NC) you know the home of Camp Lejeune..... These boys where hi-viz vests with reflective tape and get left turned and ran over on a regular basis...
Tape you a bright twirly light to your helmet,,, It doesn't matter.....

THE ONLY THING to keep you safe is to ride like you are invisible and they are out to kill you.....Pete
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post #16 of 53 Old May 14th, 2007, 5:07 pm
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Does not help.

Looking like a cop does not help. Been in three crashes.
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post #17 of 53 Old May 15th, 2007, 12:16 am Thread Starter
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I really appreciate each response/comment given. As many others, I am a true believer in the idea that one's best defense is reading and predicting what cagers are going to do -- i.e. riding defensively.

I do have an HID lowbeam, Motolights, the Kisan luggage rack brake light modulator, LED brake lights/running lights, some reflective tape on rear of bike, and wear a white helmet. Don't think I'll spring for a lime vest quite yet, but will continue to contemplate my approach to safe riding. Thanks again for the helpful input.
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post #18 of 53 Old May 15th, 2007, 2:15 am
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Byron,

Obviously your choice, but for the price of a few beers it would be worth you trying wearing one to see if you notice any difference to other road users perception of your presence.

If my experience is anything to go by, you will be pleasantly surprised.

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post #19 of 53 Old May 15th, 2007, 10:04 am
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Bright is Better

I am wearing the new Olympia flouresent yellow jacket and have noticed a big differance in the reaction of the cage drivers. I have had a State Cop tell me at a traffic light how visable I am on a dark rainy day, he said I wish every rider wore that color. I wore a red jacket before the yellow. I get nervouse now if I don't have it on. I work in the safety industry and thier have been alot of studies on colors for highway workers and fire fighters and workers on construction sites. If you notice all these occupations are wearing the flouresent colors. When I come over a hill and see a road crew ahead I see the flashing lights and the bright vest first. JMHO, but I have been T-boned before and the elderly lady said I did not see him.

My friends do kid me about the fact they have to wear sun glasses when they are around me.

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post #20 of 53 Old May 15th, 2007, 10:59 am
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Any little bit helps. It's about risk management. All these naysayers, "They'll just run you over anyways", may be right to a degree. But if the degree to that assertion runs up against say a 5-10% mitigation of the not-being-noticed-in-traffic syndrome than it certainly is worth considering. We all run the risk of getting nailed by the zombie cager who wouldn't notice a painted elephant strolling through a crosswalk. But, if while wearing loud colors, festooning your bike with light arrays, using head/taillight modulators, etc., you are able to snap one inattentive rider into awareness of your presence, then it's worth it in my book. Use what you can to manage the risk.

BTW, if your worried so much about how you look, get of the road and go into fashion modeling or something. It's the street, not a catwalk.

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post #21 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 12:45 am
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Sometimes its a combination of bike and clothing. Here are jackets from the UK.
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post #22 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 2:53 am
 
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There's a long discussion about this topic in the UK BMW forum
http://forum.bmw-club.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2923

There will always be cagers who don't see you, but anything you can do to improve your chances has to be sensible. FWIW the only black gear I own is my trousers and boots - everything else, including the bikes, is brightly coloured and night-reflective.

The only time I was almost killed was when I was in a cage, too...
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post #23 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 6:18 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbeemer
There's a long discussion about this topic in the UK BMW forum
http://forum.bmw-club.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2923

There will always be cagers who don't see you, but anything you can do to improve your chances has to be sensible. FWIW the only black gear I own is my trousers and boots - everything else, including the bikes, is brightly coloured and night-reflective.

The only time I was almost killed was when I was in a cage, too...
Brian,
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Full UK Membership currently costs £25.00 sterling per year ($50 USD) for residents of the British Isles, that is The United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Isles and the Isle of Man. Members of the Armed Forces posted abroad also count as UK residents if they have a BFPO address.

Associate membership is available to the adult partner of a full member, for £2.00 per year.

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post #24 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 7:41 am
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The top case blocks it out to much, make the whole the bike hi vis. like I did.
The one that looks B+W is in just the flash of the camera. I don't care what people think I look like, as long as they see me.

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post #25 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 8:19 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
The top case blocks it out to much, make the whole the bike hi vis. like I did.
The one that looks B+W is in just the flash of the camera. I don't care what people think I look like, as long as they see me.

Rock
Nice zebra! Glows in the dark too!

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post #26 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 10:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
The top case blocks it out to much, make the whole the bike hi vis. like I did.
The one that looks B+W is in just the flash of the camera. I don't care what people think I look like, as long as they see me.

Rock
That looks pretty cool. What does it look like in the daytime?

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post #27 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 11:43 am
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That looks pretty cool. What does it look like in the daytime?
Ride past the graveyard as they are tossing someone in the dirt, it looks the exact oppisite of that
Rock

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post #28 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 3:33 pm
 
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I bought a cheap neon yellow mesh west with reflective strips on it last week from work, got it big enough to fit over my leather jacket. It does not flop around in the breeze, my wife thought it was funny looking and laughed, told her I was going to get her one, but they didn't make them that big, she quit laughing, just joking.
I have noticed a change in people making eye contact with me at intersections more so than when I did not wear one. Anything to make me more visible day or night. So what if some people think it looks gay, like my wife and the weekend beer joint to beer joint Harley rider, guess it would cover up that high dollar Harley Tee shirt and you can't look hardcore with a neon yellow vest on. And yes I had a 76 Electra Glide back in the 80's. Not sure what I paid for it, employee deduction from check. I was told about 5 bucks, but the same vest is 20 dollars at WW Grainger. but we buy so much stuff from them maybe we got a deal. I wear it all the time now when I ride, which is daily.
It has a zipper in the front.

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post #29 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 8:45 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Just my thoughts...

I think the high-viz vests appear very visible to us riders because we're looking out for bikes and riders anyway. I just don't know how much more conspicuous they make a rider to the average cager. My thought? ZERO difference. They just make you look . . . silly. If they don't see my lights...they ain't gonna see me no matter what color clown vest I'm wearing.

But if you think it'll make you feel more comfortable and/or confident . . . go for it.

My
I feel more comfortable . . . Joe thinks I'm silly. Joe throws peanut shells on the floor . . . I think Joe is silly!
I think we have an understanding to be silly or be comfortable.
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post #30 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 9:14 pm
 
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I feel more comfortable . . . Joe thinks I'm silly. Joe throws peanut shells on the floor . . . I think Joe is silly!
I think we have an understanding to be silly or be comfortable.
Oh C'mon Paul! You know what I said about your vest. It actually looked "good and not silly". I highly recommend the Olympia MotorSports vest after seeing Paul's.
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post #31 of 53 Old May 16th, 2007, 9:25 pm
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Oh C'mon Paul! You know what I said about your vest. It actually looked "good and not silly". I highly recommend the Olympia MotorSports vest after seeing Paul's.
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post #32 of 53 Old May 19th, 2007, 6:19 am
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THE ONLY THING to keep you safe is to ride like you are invisible and they are out to kill you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Looking like a cop does not help. Been in three crashes.
Driving a rather distinctive looking vehicle (Black & White) for the past 17 years offers no advantage whatsoever. I am STILL invisible. Then, FINALLY, when someone does notice me, they fixate and/or get nervous and nut up!

BUT, if you THINK that your bright yellow, glow in the dark, vest does something for you, WTF, wear it!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Ride past the graveyard as they are tossing someone in the dirt, it looks the exact oppisite of that
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post #34 of 53 Old May 19th, 2007, 4:59 pm
 
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Hi,

Does anyone know if you can get the Olympia Hi Vis jacket in the UK. If not any suggestions for other makes I may be able to get. Am looking for a full Hi Vis jacket with all the armour etc intergral as opposed to a hi vis vest to wear over the top of a normal jacket.

Thanks
Mike
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post #35 of 53 Old May 19th, 2007, 7:06 pm
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HI Viz

Mike

Hein geiricke (sp?) Master jacket is a good option or Aerostich. I fyou go for a over vest make surte it has a zip rather than velcro as velcro will nor stick over time or speed

Graham Wintersgill
On the bonnnie bonnie banks of Loch Lomond

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post #36 of 53 Old May 20th, 2007, 6:22 am
 
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thanks will pop down to Hein today and take a look
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post #37 of 53 Old May 21st, 2007, 6:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355pilot
Hi,

Does anyone know if you can get the Olympia Hi Vis jacket in the UK. If not any suggestions for other makes I may be able to get. Am looking for a full Hi Vis jacket with all the armour etc intergral as opposed to a hi vis vest to wear over the top of a normal jacket.

Thanks
Mike
I got one of these to wear over my regular jacket to hold my Ham radio Motorola Saber.
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post #38 of 53 Old May 21st, 2007, 7:59 pm
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Hi Viz Helmet

A riding buddy bought a white helmet and had it painted hi-viz yellow (being careful to not paint over the DOT decal). I thought it was the goofiest idea he'd ever had until we came home from a ride in rapidly changing weather with fog coming in at dusk.

I couldn't see much of his bike, but I could see his helmet bobbing along. I know cagers saw him too because a few moved or stopped as we came into view.

I ordered a white helmet which will be painted hi-viz orange or yellow as soon as it arrives. I may even add a refelctive stripe, splatter, lightning bolt or some other pattern as well.

Inside my 60 year old body is a 35 year old brain wondering what the hell happened.
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post #39 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2007, 11:17 am
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I've often thought of doing that. I would buy a hi-viz helmet in a snap and even wear it in lieu of a jacket or vest. I just wish the makers would offer them. The make so many other goofy designs and colors, I wonder who buys some of them. I would go with the lime yellow. The red-orange just doesn't have the same impact in my opinion.

Who does professional helmet painting, BTW? I'm not keen on spreading out the newspaper and shaking up a can of Krylon.

Another thing I've observed and thought about regarding hi-viz stuff. It may not necessarily mitigate much risk in the inattentive driver situations on surface streets, but in the other more slowly developing venues like multi-lane freeways, open country and inclement weather there is a distinct advantage. If drivers can spot and make notice of you from a distance, there's less likelihood of your presence "sneaking up" on them when they pass or meet you at an intersection.

Bicyclists wearing the hi-viz jerseys on road shoulders (coming or going) always ping my attention whether I'm riding or driving. I was on my back patio reading the paper one Sunday. The patio has an elevated view across a river bed with a path on the other bank a good 1/4 mile away. A bicyclist in hi-vis garb rode along and it actually distracted me from my reading. I'm a very focused reader, just ask my wife when she's trying to get my attention whilst reading. But that tiny moving image in my peripheral field of vision was loud enough to distract me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_H
A riding buddy bought a white helmet and had it painted hi-viz yellow (being careful to not paint over the DOT decal). I thought it was the goofiest idea he'd ever had until we came home from a ride in rapidly changing weather with fog coming in at dusk.

I couldn't see much of his bike, but I could see his helmet bobbing along. I know cagers saw him too because a few moved or stopped as we came into view.

I ordered a white helmet which will be painted hi-viz orange or yellow as soon as it arrives. I may even add a refelctive stripe, splatter, lightning bolt or some other pattern as well.

-----------------------------------------

The word motorcycle is a verb.

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post #40 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2007, 1:02 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkramer
Who does professional helmet painting, BTW? I'm not keen on spreading out the newspaper and shaking up a can of Krylon.
I had a local body shop paint mine. Inexpensive, and a much better job than if I had bought rattle-can paint and sprayed it in my garage.

It will void your helmet warranty, however, but I think it's worth it anyway.

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post #41 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2007, 11:50 pm
 
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I notice on reading this thread a definite divide on peoples attitiudes to the Hi-Vis jacket.

The one camp who thinks it is a good idea and will wear one and the other camp who think it is not needed in light,no pun meant, of all the lights on the bike (especially if you have added all the extra PIAA's etc) and that it can not be seen with our large bikes and fairings.

I fall into the it is a good idea to wear one camp and give my reasons here as food for thought to others. Accident investigation here has shown that where as you can cover the bike in reflective tape and panels other drivers can still fail to notice you, not exactly news to us who ride!! It has also shown though that people whilst ignoring reflective tape on a car etc will notice the same materials more often when worn on the human body.
The reason for this is that the mind will recognise and assign a higher priority to the human form. (lots of research to prove this if you want to find it one rainy day) If you therefore wear a long sleeved Hi-Vis jacket your form seen by other road users will attract that second look that may well save your life.

The argument that our bikes fairings etc are to large and hide us do not in tests hold water. Seen from the front through the screen it is easy for others to see the shape of a large body area and two arms off to the sides, this in company with reflective markers on the chin, brow section and each side of the head will enable them to spot and recognise a human form at a subconscious level. A marker on the rear of the helmet in the centre will also help those behind and to the side as you move your head while riding.
This will hold true in both daylight and more so at night. It is not just in the dark that the Hi-Vis gives you a benefit.

The idea of the bike and its lights being all you need to be spotted is very common. "If they cant see a bike the size of mine lit up like a christmas tree then a Hi-vis jacket is not going to make a difference" is something I hear a lot.This train of thought though is making one very dangerous assumption namely that you will always be on your bike.

Picture a scene. You come off your machine, for whatever reason.Tyre blow out, a swerve to avoid pedestrian/animal, too fast in corner or dirt on the road the list of reasons as to why we may part company with our bikes is long and you all know them. The bike travels down the road and bounces along depending on the speed maybe turning over sending bits of tuperware off as it goes. Lights going round and about as it makes its progress. A big sight, a sad one for the owner yes, but still you can not disagree a big sight especially with our size machines.

Now picture the rider in their black leathers or riding gear, they are sliding along the road and are now on the wrong side travelling low down to the surface. Coming towards them is a cage driver. He is confronted with a large object in the form of your pride and joy covered in lights boucing along the roadside to attract his attention as it passes down the side of his vehicle.

Think of his joy at it missing it and how close that was. This joy is short lived however though as suddenly he is aware of a loud bang and the car rides up and over something. Yes, you are right a driver can not fail to notice our size bike and all its lights, sadly however you in your dark leathers against a dark road surface and a low profile are very easy to miss especially with the view of your bike to act as a further distraction.

If though you had been wearing a Hi-vis jacket with full length arms and bright helmet then your human shape (all be it a rolling, slidding one) may well have attracted the drivers attention enabling him to take the action required to save your life. Although I do wear dark trousers in the dry my wet weather leggins are also Hi-Vis to further give the shape of a human figure. A Hi-Vis top though is always on day or night.

As to looking "silly"? well rather that than my family not having me around and missing watching my kids and grand kids grow up and being there for them. Or worse still giving them a life sentance of looking after an invalid for a husband or father.

I write this not to judge those who have posted before but simply to try to enable discussion in the hope it will help to one day save a life. Please do not take offence.

Mike.

P.S. as a final thought for all. When someone is involved in an accident it is not just the bike rider or pedestrian hit who suffers but the driver of the car even when not hurt can suffer huge emotianal injuries. Those of us who in an emergency service capacity have attended collisions can tell of many a driver or passenger who having injured others through no fault of their own or simply been involved in an incident where others are injured not by them suffer for months or even years after with feelings of guilt. Car drivers do not set out to run us over so lets do all we can to help them miss us and save all of us a lot of pain both physical and emotional.

Stay Safe.
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post #42 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2007, 6:18 am
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Excellent post Mike. I'm thinking about a new jacket and with your comments this puts a hi-viz at the top of the list. (No matter how much Connie hates it.)

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post #43 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2007, 9:49 am
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Mike, I agree with you 100% and I brought up the same point (where the rider is no longer with the bike) early in this thread. A Hi-Viz outfit can also help with finding a rider who fell in a ditch off the road. I remember a somewhat similar situation where a horse rider fell in a ravine, while the horse kept running back to the barn, and was promptly found and rescued thanks to the bright colors she was wearing.

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post #44 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Mike,
excellent post, thanks.
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post #45 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2007, 1:14 pm
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I just tried on the Olympia Vest that we have here at the shop. I don't know how effective it will be on the LT, but I think I'll get one for the GS. Every little bit helps...

BTW I think I'll get the bright orange one


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Is the inexpensive option I choose, money is channeled back into rider education.


Blunt bumper stickers as well.
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post #47 of 53 Old May 24th, 2007, 12:31 am
 
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Thank you for the replies and it is good to hear others willing to wear Hi-Vis for their own and others safety. It is not the be all and end all of safety but a part of it. Along with defensive riding, correct bike maintainance and checks etc. we try to build layers of protection around us like the skin of an onion. One thing on its own is not the answer but together we try to give us as much chance as possible to enjoy our riding safely.

Stay safe and pass on the message.

Mike
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post #48 of 53 Old May 24th, 2007, 7:23 am
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Motorman don't read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
A Hi-Viz outfit can also help with finding a rider who fell in a ditch off the road. I remember a somewhat similar situation where a rider fell in a ravine,
Me too, Mike Hoss has the bike, working as a lineman in Alaska, he saw something shining down off the side of the road.
Was an HD Lectragilde, with a left boot and a foot.
Rock

I'll will poisons the soul
Living well is the best revenge
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post #49 of 53 Old May 24th, 2007, 7:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
I just tried on the Olympia Vest that we have here at the shop. I don't know how effective it will be on the LT, but I think I'll get one for the GS. Every little bit helps...

BTW I think I'll get the bright orange one

Not sure how it is where you live, but here the sea of orange signs (you start to ignore) leading up to work zones make orange vests invisable. So the workers wear the hi-vis green, they stand out like the sore thumb, from all the orange.
Rock

I'll will poisons the soul
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post #50 of 53 Old May 24th, 2007, 8:37 am
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Here´s a short film that proves that. Ad takes 20 seconds.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2007/0...179987088.html
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