Fuel Tank Filler Neck Mod - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 1:19 pm Thread Starter
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Question Fuel Tank Filler Neck Mod

Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks

Pete Murray
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post #2 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 1:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks
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post #3 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 1:45 pm
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Mein Gott! Don't use a ShopVac! There will still be gas fumes in the tank and they are explosive. The ShopVac is NOT explosive proof and you'll become a flambe.
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post #4 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 1:52 pm
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Mein Gott indeed! use some air pressure into the tank from the removed Fuel Pump...

MAYBE!... but not recommended....

What are your problems fueling Mein Beasty? Certainly not worth a couple weeks in the Army Burn Center...

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post #5 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 2:02 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Mein Gott indeed! use some air pressure into the tank from the removed Fuel Pump...

MAYBE!... but not recommended....

What are your problems fueling Mein Beasty? Certainly not worth a couple weeks in the Army Burn Center...
Very true,Was planning on empty tank my shop vac has a 20 ' hose . After posting thought the vac deal through and will not use.

I need every drop of fuel,minimize the effort and I want to speed up my fuel stops. Even though it only takes about 5 m to fill the main and fuel cell from start to finish with documentation.

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post #6 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 2:47 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I did this to my GS but it was never needed on the LT.
Even with a fuel cell I need it.

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post #7 of 32 Old May 4th, 2007, 6:03 pm
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Smile Is this a joke?

You really aren't thinking about doing that are you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks

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post #8 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 4:38 am
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The first week I got my LT I was filling it up and had the nozzel in the tank and my foot slipped on some gas and the filler nozzel kind of torqued sideways and I heard a crack. I took the nozzel out and looked down to see the flat plastic disc in the filler whole had cracked and sepperated from the tank. I thought crap I just cracked my tank. I got my leatherman out and reached in and grabed the plastic and then realized it was just a disk, so I poped it out and what a difference in filling the tank I can see into the tank as I am filling it.

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post #9 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 5:59 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrehder
You really aren't thinking about doing that are you?
No it is not a joke !

Perhaps you do not see the benefit. BTW why does this upset you ?

Pete Murray
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post #10 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 6:12 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
. I got my leatherman out and reached in and grabed the plastic and then realized it was just a disk, so I poped it out and what a difference in filling the tank I can see into the tank as I am filling it.
Doug thanks for your info.

To clarify I will have a empty tank fuel pump assembly removed well vented work space tank grounded etc.
The holes I will drill will be on the filler neck below the threads.
If we were dealing with a RT or GS the filler neck can be removed separate from the tank. Friends who have done this mod to there RT are very happy.
Thanks

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post #11 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 6:58 am
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I am curious too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
No it is not a joke !

Perhaps you do not see the benefit. BTW why does this upset you ?
I don't understand the problem or see the benefit either. Is this supposed to vent the tank during filling so that it fills faster? Or somehow allow you to get more into the tank?


I would consider the benefits of a hole drilled in the tank's filler neck (benefits which I clearly don't understand) against the increased risk of fire during a tipover or a crash.

Until I understand this better it sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me.
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post #12 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 8:19 am Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=CharlieVT]I don't understand the problem or see the benefit either. ?


>>SNIP prior post>< Motive I need every drop of fuel,minimize effort and speed up my fuel stops. Even though it only takes about 5 m to fill the main and fuel cell from start to finish with documentation<<

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
I would consider the benefits of a hole drilled in the tank's filler neck (benefits which I clearly don't understand) against the increased risk of fire during a tipover or a crash.

Always a valid concern but,Tank vent and overflow will not be altered therefore no increase risk of fire.

Until I understand this better it sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me.
Charlie there isn't a problem.

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post #13 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 9:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks
Pete,

Mythbusters (the Discovery channel show) did everything they could to get a Shop Vac to ignite and were not very successful so I would not worry about that too much.

I am curious why you would do this though? Is it an Iron Butt thing - fill up faster and ride more miles? I am not condemning it just wondering the about why.

Thanks
Tim

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post #14 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 10:14 am
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I'll race you side by side to see who can fill their tank the fastest, with your proposed mod vs. my stock tank.

I'll bet you'll win by a second or two.

Then with both tanks full, we'll tip them over to simulate a crash - and see who can first accumulate a gallon puddle of gas on the ground.

I'll bet you win again, but his time by several minutes.


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post #15 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 10:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the1mavin
Pete,

Mythbusters (the Discovery channel show) did everything they could to get a Shop Vac to ignite and were not very successful so I would not worry about that too much.

I am curious why you would do this though? Is it an Iron Butt thing - fill up faster and ride more miles? I am not condemning it just wondering the about why.

Thanks
Tim
They did not try very hard.

There was an incident at an FAA Certified Balloon Repair Station in Albuquerque a few years ago. I know the owner very well.

One of his repairmen was vacuuming metal chips with an extension wand from the bottom of an empty 15 gallon propane fuel tank that they had just drilled for a repair. (Propane has about 10% less energy than gasoline)

The large shop vac exploded with the force of a small bomb, and there were pieces of shrapnel in every part of the shop, luckily it was mostly plastic.

To this day he still realizes how lucky he was that no one was hurt or killed.

Myth confirmed.


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post #16 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 11:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the1mavin
Pete,

Mythbusters (the Discovery channel show) did everything they could to get a Shop Vac to ignite and were not very successful so I would not worry about that too much.
Hate to burst their/your bubble, but they are F.O.S. My father was head design engineer for Shop Vac and I know for a fact they will explode. There was a non english speaking employee at a Texas co. that died from an explosion when he was using a Shop Vac to clean out the toner dust in a room full of copiers. Big law suit ensued...never mind the warnings on the product and in the packaging that daid not to use it on flammable products or in the presence of them.

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post #17 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 11:44 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I'll race you side by side to see who can fill their tank the fastest, with your proposed mod vs. my stock tank.

I'll bet you'll win by a second or two.

Then with both tanks full, we'll tip them over to simulate a crash - and see who can first accumulate a gallon puddle of gas on the ground.

I'll bet you win again, but his time by several minutes.
The tank is sealed by the top of the cap, Go look.
Happy Trolling!

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post #18 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 12:28 pm
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Pete,

I just wanted to add that I know exactly what you're trying to do, and exactly why. I'm planning on pulling the cap off my GT and drilling some holes for the same reasons. I even thought of making an extension tube to lift the gas cap up about 6 inches to deal with those pesky fuel hose nozzles.

Maybe you could just pop out the disk like Doug mentioned.

And don't let the naysayers get you down. Their limited experiences mean they just don't understand. Or they just don't have the same efficiency requirements as we do.

But I would stay away from the shop vac though.

Ken

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #19 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 1:33 pm
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The plastic ring I took out of the tank with my leatherman had what looked like a indetation where it attached to the main body of the tank. With it out it is just alot easier to fill the tank, who cares about faster. It would be the first thing I would do if I got another LT. I do know that a shop vac will cause an explosion, seen it first hand on the a rescue call while working at the fire dept. Here is a pic of my filler, instead of drilling I would just take a sharp knife and cut it out it's thin brittle plastic not like the tank.

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post #20 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 2:39 pm
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Smile not upset

Just can't understand why that would benefit your gas stops. Are you talking about the filler neck on an aux tank? I just have never heard of a need to have that done to a gas tank. party on if you think it will benefit your stops, maybe this is the next gas cap type mod and everyone will be drilling!

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
No it is not a joke !

Perhaps you do not see the benefit. BTW why does this upset you ?

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post #21 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 3:46 pm
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OK I'm kinda slow... but after 15 or 20 post I think I understand.

You're not really planning on drilling the filler neck itself, but the disc inside that 'blocks' it, correct? Then as the fuel goes in the tank, the air, fumes, etc. inside the tank can escape faster and the pump won't keep shutting off? What is the intended purpose of that disc anyway, just to prevent splashback or contain the vapors for reclamation by the pump nozzle?

Am I the only one who had his jaw dropping thinking you were gonna drill into the side of the neck?

Or am I still way off?
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post #22 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 4:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
The plastic ring I took out of the tank with my leatherman had what looked like a indetation where it attached to the main body of the tank. With it out it is just alot easier to fill the tank, who cares about faster. It would be the first thing I would do if I got another LT. I do know that a shop vac will cause an explosion, seen it first hand on the a rescue call while working at the fire dept. Here is a pic of my filler, instead of drilling I would just take a sharp knife and cut it out it's thin brittle plastic not like the tank.
I know what Pete is doing, but for those of us not in LD competition, that ring is not such a bad thing, at least for me.

When I fill I put the nozzle all the way in. Run it until autoshutoff. Then I raise the nozzle and find the ring with the end of the nozzle, drop the nozzle down just a hair below the ring, and pump again until shutoff.

I probably don't get a complete full tank, but I never get splash back and I don't have to watch the level rise, which can be difficult in some lighting.

Just my $.02.

John

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post #23 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 4:37 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrehder
Just can't understand why that would benefit your gas stops.
John here are the benefits and reason's endurance riders would perform this mod. If one ever pushed their physical mental limits on the bike you realize even the simple tasks deplete energy.

Imagine 10 oz more fuel in the tank during a 11 day rally.Picture 31 gas stops at a minimum X 10 oz =311 oz more fuel or 2.43 gallons.

1- allow more fuel to be put in the tank.

2- Less energy expenditure at fuel stops .

3-reduces mental and physical demands-fatigue.

So perhaps this is not for everyone but a little extra fuel may make the difference in making it to the gas station

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post #24 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 4:44 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick-L


You're not really planning on drilling the filler neck itself What is the intended purpose of that disc

Or am I still way off?
Yes drill the filler neck.

The Disc and filler neck allows head space in the tank for fuel expansion with increasing temps.

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post #25 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 4:56 pm
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The disk is a requirement just as it is in all of our cars so you have to use unleaded gas, the nozzel is smaller.

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post #26 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 9:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
The tank is sealed by the top of the cap, Go look.
Happy Trolling!
No kidding, I never realized that. Brilliant.

I would like to see your mod when finished, and I encourage you to do it!

I've only done about - oh - 30 or so on the LT that NO ONE else has thought of...

So what you are trying to do is to fill your tank just a leetle bit faster (and to keep that pesky pump from shutting off when your tank is full like it is designed to do) and get an extra 8 ounces of fuel, correct? Is this the edge you are hoping for that will help you win an LD competition?

I'll be the first one there with a fire extinguisher when the auto shutoff on the pump doesn't work properly and you've got a a major gas spill. Haz mat and the Fire Department will be second. Might delay you just a tad.

Some mods make lots of sense. This one is just plain dangerous.

... and illegal.

IMHO.

Done trolling!


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post #27 of 32 Old May 5th, 2007, 9:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks
Hi, Pete - lissen, I got no quarrel with your tank filler neck mod, butt I'll add a word of caution here. Back in '99/'00/'01 and maybe even since then, there were anecdoctal posts about folks letting the gas station hose 'pistol nozzles' create a problem with the in-tank tube where the fuel level sensor lives. Seems that it's possible to insert the the 'pistol nozzle' into the tank and turn it in such a way as to dent or crimp the tube, thereby causing the level sensor to provide a false reading. It's never happened to me and ole Toad, so I can't tell ya what position contributes to the possibility. I'd just say that increasing the diameter of the tank filler neck by removal of the disk 'might' allow that 'pistol nozzle' more lateral movement with a chance at damaging the tube. Just food for thought and to be aware of the possibility, especially if one is in a hurry to tank up and go. Good luck with your project, Pete. Hope you accomplish what you wanna do, with no side affects.
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post #28 of 32 Old May 7th, 2007, 12:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
The plastic ring I took out of the tank with my leatherman had what looked like a indetation where it attached to the main body of the tank. With it out it is just alot easier to fill the tank, who cares about faster. It would be the first thing I would do if I got another LT. I do know that a shop vac will cause an explosion, seen it first hand on the a rescue call while working at the fire dept.
An additional note on the disk. Mine was damaged and I took the bike to the dealer since it was still under warranty. They agreed to replace the tank. Went to pick up the bike with the new tank and -- NO DISK!! I verified they had actually replaced the tank with a new one but apparently replacement tanks don't have the disk at all. If anyone else has had theirs replaced and can verify, I'd be interested.
(BTW - I must be slow because I don't get the mod that is being described at all, but it isn't important to me.)

Dan
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post #29 of 32 Old May 7th, 2007, 3:33 pm
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My 07 LT does not have disk in the filler neck. I will take a pic tonight and post it. Mine is a Canadian/European model so there may be differences between the two.

Regards

Ken

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post #30 of 32 Old May 7th, 2007, 6:07 pm
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I would guess the disk is there for environmental reasons to better seal the tank from fumes or vapors exiting the machine. Kinda like the new gas cans that don't have a normal vent.

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post #31 of 32 Old May 8th, 2007, 2:29 pm
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Remember when we all had to change to unleaded gas? They made the nozzel smaller than the leaded one and put a "disk" in the filler so we could not put the leaded nozzel in by mistake as that would have destroyed the catalitec converter, it's still here just go look in all your gas tanks. When you get a smog test done on your car they take off the cap and check for the small hole and check the seal and pressure of you cap. Even though you can't buy leaded gas any more maybe they are worried that we may put diesel in!

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post #32 of 32 Old May 8th, 2007, 2:45 pm
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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Yes, I drilled a few air holes into the tube that extends into the gas tank, no problem. The way I did it was just to push a sharp instrument through the plastic tube. That way way there is not excess material, nothing to fall to the ground, nothing to clog anything.


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Originally Posted by murray
Has anyone drilled holes in the fuel tank filler neck in order to ease tank filling? If so what technique did you use ?

Thinking about inverting tank and use the shop vac to suck out plastic debris when drilling.
Thanks

Andreas Pleschutznig
'14 GSAW soon:
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Still in search of Occam's razor to cut a Gordian knot.
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