Speed Cam's are coming!... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 2:38 pm Thread Starter
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Speed Cam's are coming!...

In my best Paul Revere' voice...

In AZ...got a thread rollling on this in the KS forum, however, just saw an article today they are going to start this july, with state wide, freeway, driveway, garage and bedroom cams' (well, ok, state wide and freeway at least but..) all over the great state of AZ.

No votes, no voting, nada, just up your arse like it or not.

Don't know if you've had the enjoyment of driving in a speedcam controlled area but look out. Might as well start working back down to 40 horsepower, its all your gonna need. Most people drive like they just saw a CHP on the xway, like, at about 30 below the speed limit...just in case. Fast lane? Its history, ain't no such thing with speed cams. Hell, ya can't get outta the way if you wanted to without paying the big brother price.

I thought this most excellent insertion of bigbrother in your britches of an article should be shared so ya'll know whats coming. I mean, if it can happen in AZ, it's coming to your state soon.

If not, let me know cause I'm moving there, tired of this commie bullshitz and ignorance. I'm pissed, needless to say.
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post #2 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 2:47 pm
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yup.. gonna get much worse.

...............
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post #3 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 2:51 pm
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Talking cameras, a new way to tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
In my best Paul Revere' voice...

In AZ...got a thread rollling on this in the KS forum, however, just saw an article today they are going to start this july, with state wide, freeway, driveway, garage and bedroom cams' (well, ok, state wide and freeway at least but..) all over the great state of AZ.

No votes, no voting, nada, just up your arse like it or not.

Don't know if you've had the enjoyment of driving in a speedcam controlled area but look out. Might as well start working back down to 40 horsepower, its all your gonna need. Most people drive like they just saw a CHP on the xway, like, at about 30 below the speed limit...just in case. Fast lane? Its history, ain't no such thing with speed cams. Hell, ya can't get outta the way if you wanted to without paying the big brother price.

I thought this most excellent insertion of bigbrother in your britches of an article should be shared so ya'll know whats coming. I mean, if it can happen in AZ, it's coming to your state soon.

If not, let me know cause I'm moving there, tired of this commie bullshitz and ignorance. I'm pissed, needless to say.

Don't be pissed, go after them. This is all about money.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #4 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 5:04 pm
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Aquanet hair spray, it makes your plate stand up like your hair , just not in court cause you can't get through the reflection.
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post #5 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 5:09 pm Thread Starter
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Someone posted somewhere that the two crazy guys on TV (I don't watch much, but they test urban legends, etc) did a test on all the plate sprays, etc, said none of them work!!

I was thinking about installing my plate backassward, then claiming dyslexia
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post #6 of 32 Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 7:06 pm
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Frequent readers of threads on this topic (red-light cameras, speed cameras, etc.) are already groaning because I'm replying to this one. At least I'm consistent: I think a traffice device that detects your violation is a very bad idea. I'd rather pay more in taxes to station a real, live police officer at an intersection to do the same job as the camera. Why? Because it's about being able to confront your accuser (as mentioned in our Constitution), and it's about the slippery slope that traffic cameras represent, IMO.

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post #7 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 7:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
Someone posted somewhere that the two crazy guys on TV (I don't watch much, but they test urban legends, etc) did a test on all the plate sprays, etc, said none of them work!!

I was thinking about installing my plate backassward, then claiming dyslexia
Someone, somewhere quotes some TV fudgepackers , thats credible . I'll take that over the wingmen MC. That have won the issue in court because their plates couldn't be ID
Besides I said hair spray, not licence plate spray, and I don't watch any TV either.
Rock

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Last edited by UncleRock; Apr 24th, 2007 at 7:51 am.
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post #8 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 7:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Frequent readers of threads on this topic (red-light cameras, speed cameras, etc.) are already groaning because I'm replying to this one. At least I'm consistent: I think a traffice device that detects your violation is a very bad idea. I'd rather pay more in taxes to station a real, live police officer at an intersection to do the same job as the camera. Why? Because it's about being able to confront your accuser (as mentioned in our Constitution), and it's about the slippery slope that traffic cameras represent, IMO.
Well Howard, that's at least two of us.

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post #9 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 10:48 am Thread Starter
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Ya I know, its pretty sad quoting just about anything from a TV program, especially 2nd hand

aquanet eh? mmm....nothing will help my hair but its worth a try
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post #10 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 11:32 am
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Hmmm, cameras.......isn't that why we have the second ammendment?

Our founding fathers must have been real visionaries.


Kevin

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post #11 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 11:43 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
Fast lane? Its history, ain't no such thing with speed cams.
Do speed cams use radar? If so, just use a detector. What's the big deal?

Regards,
-joel
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post #12 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 11:44 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
I'll take that over the wingmen MC. That have won the issue in court because their plates couldn't be ID
Got any proof, Rock? That'd be interesting to see.

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post #13 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 11:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
Ya I know, its pretty sad quoting just about anything from a TV program, especially 2nd hand

aquanet eh? mmm....nothing will help my hair but its worth a try
Sad to quote a TV program? I disagree. He said that he saw on xxx show that they did some testing and showed yyy products as ineffective. Just relating what he heard.

Now, if he said that the products did not work as a fact, and later in the dicsussion said that his basis for that was that it was on xxx show and therefore must be true, well I would take issue with that.

In response to your second statement regarding nothing will help your hair, at least you have hair!

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post #14 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 12:34 pm Thread Starter
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Well...I'm being kind to myself here

My boy says I cover well, heheh....long as I don't bend over and expose myself...mmm...that didn't come out right

If the H/spray doesnt' fix it (my hair that is ) I'll have to try riding in the mud and not washing the bike...

I sure see lots of those out west here, can't read the plates with all the dirt on them. Not a bad idea!
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post #15 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 1:55 pm
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The show was Mythbusters I tivo it, but it was biased, as in they had the guy that invented the camera there testing it. It was a joke. Worst one they've done.
Here is an even better option.
http://www.radarbusters.com/products...r/navalert.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QQNU...2Dvideos%2Easp
Update on internet, know and be warned of any such cams. With this and a detector, you should be just fine.

Ghaison (Jason)
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post #16 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 4:28 pm
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speed cameras

So the camera records your plate but isn't the speed recorded by radar?
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post #17 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Got any proof, Rock? That'd be interesting to see.
Do I keep copies of the case, no.
If you want to run it down
Ace Morlock Wingmen MC, (Airforce club) they said he was doing 168mph going from OK into Texas. They had narrowed it down to 5 bikes of the type in the picture registered in the state. His being the only one close to that area, it got thrown out because they couldn't get a positive ID on the bike.
Rock

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Living well is the best revenge
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post #18 of 32 Old Apr 24th, 2007, 9:03 pm
 
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Cool Speed cams

aka photo radar
Welcome to our world, had to put up with them for several years now - regular pita. Up to now you could pretty much see the van on the side of the road with the photo radar in, so was easy to slam on the anchors & cruise through the zone. These days they are getting trickier, loading the damn things in boxes on the road side- look like power boxes. The accompanying van is on the side street - this is just not playing fair. Too much of a cash grab.
Fortunately they don't tend to use them on the highway. Interesting though, I have been caught several times in the cage but never on the bike. Have blasted through the zone a few times totally on my own & no photo. If I had been in the cage I would have been nabbed for sure.
The other really annoying thing is that these damn things come from Texas (Houston) - come on guys ship em somewhere else

Mike
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post #19 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 1:09 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002redrider
So the camera records your plate but isn't the speed recorded by radar?
The speed on the cameras up already DO NOT use radar. They use Vascar, a computed aided speed-distance calculator. I ride in my car with a V1 (only good on the streets, and useless for the cams) and a Garmin GPS with a speed-cam POI loaded and that warns me in advance of the cams. On the bike, I just remember where they are from the GPS warnings.
I do believe that when they all go up, that vandals are going to begin a rampage and that might take of it where it hurts, $$$$. We'll see.

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post #20 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 6:20 am
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I seem to recall them experimenting with that in CO back in the 80's. In order to be convicted, you had to have the license plate and the driver's photo. About that same time, there were very brisk sales of Ronald Reagan halloween masks in the Denver area, and his picture showed up on more than one speeding violation!

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post #21 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 6:44 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety1
The speed on the cameras up already DO NOT use radar. They use Vascar, a computed aided speed-distance calculator. ------------------------------------.
Vascar cannot stand alone like the speed cams. It has to be operated by a person. It is basically a calculating "stop watch" system that the operator uses by timing a car between two pre-measured marks. Some states that use Vascar have paint marks on the shoulders in places they wish to use it, but an operator can pre-measure between any thing he can see well from the chosen vantage point, such as mile markers and signs, put the distance into the computer, and sit back and time people.

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post #22 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 6:53 am
 
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We have had cameras for years. Some fixed, some mobile. No one likes them. Often if you do not notice the flash the first you know of it is when the love letter arrives in the mail, sometimes weeks after the event.
The vast majority of our cameras take from the front - so no problem on the bike.
Reason given for their installation is that it is safer for the LEO as he does not have to confront the driver or pull vehicles over on a busy road.
Results have been many cameras vandalised, spraypainted etc.
Also I know of many people who simply change their plates and effectively drive illegally. Chances of getting caught doing this are very small as you are never going to get pulled over.
Its just a money making racket and does not add to road safety at all. Often more dangerous as a whole highway brakes just as they notice the camera.
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post #23 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 7:34 am
 
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We've got thousands of them! They're just cash collectors for the operators. The really unfortunate thing about them is that most police forces now rely on the cameras to catch the speeding motorist so you hardly ever see a traffic cop any more. In the last 1000+ miles I've ridden/driven I haven't seen a single one. Consequently the really dangerous drivers aren't caught any more - how can a camera show DUI if they're under the limit and don't trigger the camera?

Don't know about AZ, but our cameras work on radar. Your speed triggers the device and it takes 2 photos in a set period of time. Your position on the road is recorded by fixed marks and that is backup to the radar reading. The photos go to some central point and they send you out the fine after they've traced the licence plate. More and more cameras are now facing forward to also show the driver's face (so you can't claim Joe borrowed your car).

The UK is now using 'average speed' cameras, especially on the motorways - they link two or more cameras along a stretch of road and using automatic number plate recognition systems they calculate your speed over the fixed distance - a bit like an automatic Vascar system. 10% or more over the limit and you get a ticket - fully automatic. Two things with them though - the cameras face forward and can only read plates that are on one line, and most bike plates are on TWO lines

There is a law in the UK that all cameras have to be visible and they are painted bright yellow as you approach. The areas where cameras are in use also have to be signed, so if you get caught by one you've really only your own bad observation to blame.

Statistic - over 1.5 million motorists are within one speeding ticket of being automatically banned for a year because of speed cameras. Do they reduce speed? Not one iota, but they have been known to increase fender benders as people brake suddenly when they spot one. The only thing that is reducing speed on UK roads is the 33 million vehicles out there every day jamming them up!
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post #24 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 7:36 am
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I recently took a trip from So. NH to Cooperstown, NY and while travelling I90, especially in NY, my V1 was going nuts every time I passed one of those portable construction signs on the side of the highway. The signs were not displaying a message, so I thought they might have speed cams built in or along side.
Yes? No? Maybe?

Joe
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post #25 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 8:55 am
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Those construction signs don't have any cameras in them. I think the radar units are just a warning to get people to slow down. They are always in the same spot and don't move very much if at all.

They don't bother me but I thought it used to be against FCC regulations to leave a radar gun transmitting a radio signal without an operator present. Maybe the regulations changed for the cops or maybe they just don't care.

Kevin

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post #26 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 8:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety1
The speed on the cameras up already DO NOT use radar. They use Vascar, a computed aided speed-distance calculator.
You sure about that, Tweety?

VASCAR stands for Visual Average Speed Computer and Recorder. It's really a stopwatch coupled with a calculator. Once a distance is entered, the operator pushes a button to start then stop the stopwatch. VASCAR displays the speed calculated from the distance entered and the time measured. Thus, a VASCAR measurement depends on human input.

So how do they do that automatically from a speed cam?

Regards,
-joel
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post #27 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 9:30 am Thread Starter
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I think I posted this already somewhere, but what AZ was looking to do was to legislate (I think) the idea of eliminating the need for a face photo, simply take the plate photo and hold the veh registration owner liable for the ticket.

It has to do with the actual fines collected, which for some reason was pretty low, like 30% or so. They said with the new proposal, the fine collection increases to over 90%!!!

What does this tell you about "safety"????? Like, the gov't doesn't really giveashitz about your safety, these people want more and more money, the gov't just never seems to have enuff.

I would just love to see a mass social response by speeding past the cams all the time and having about 90% of the state's drivers losing their license. Kind of like prohibition

How the hell do these people get into our gov't?? I vote, but surely not for them!! If the voter's don't agree with something, they just do it any f'in way, thus, the lack of a voter approval in AZ, within a couple of months they realized voters probably wounldn't approve it (my opinion) so they just decided to start installation of this crap come this july!

good grief...
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post #28 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 1:54 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog
You sure about that, Tweety?

VASCAR stands for Visual Average Speed Computer and Recorder. It's really a stopwatch coupled with a calculator. Once a distance is entered, the operator pushes a button to start then stop the stopwatch. VASCAR displays the speed calculated from the distance entered and the time measured. Thus, a VASCAR measurement depends on human input.

So how do they do that automatically from a speed cam?

Regards,
-joel
Here in the UK there is a system which uses two fixed sensors in the road. These can be much closer than needed for a visual measurement as the camera's computer can measure much smaller times. This can be used for cameras which are not fixed but can be moved around several sites.
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post #29 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 8:32 pm
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Just register your car in a different state. I violate the things all the time, never got a single love letter (in that car).
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post #30 of 32 Old Apr 25th, 2007, 10:02 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildernessJeep
Just register your car in a different state. I violate the things all the time, never got a single love letter (in that car).
Is that really something to brag about?

Antony (Tripod)
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post #31 of 32 Old Apr 26th, 2007, 5:05 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
Someone, somewhere quotes some TV fudgepackers...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
......My boy says I cover well, heheh....long as I don't bend over and expose myself...mmm...that didn't come out right......
For a second I thought I'd misfired to "www.bmwALT.com!"

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #32 of 32 Old Apr 26th, 2007, 5:19 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
....tired of this commie bullshit and ignorance. I'm pissed, needless to say.
Well stay out of Kalifornia, then, my friend!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Speed traps in The Netherlands vvk Chit Chat 0 Oct 24th, 2005 9:38 am

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