Windshield Arms = No Warranty? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 26 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 11:47 pm Thread Starter
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Windshield Arms = No Warranty?

I noticed that the windshield on my '05 was looking kinda crooked, and I pointed this out to the dealer. I was told that this can happen from the wind forces when one tries to raise the windshield at 70mph, that BMW put out a bulletin to dealers that this was no longer going to eligible for warranty claims, and that it was even published in an owners manual not to raise the windshield at speed (I have not yet verified or disputed the veracity of this claim). If the part is that sensitive, it seems they should have engineered it better, IMHO.

Mechanism works fine, just cannot lower the windshield all of the way without tugging one lower corner inward so it clears the nose cone. Also, is a bit lopsided when extended. No one will probably notice it but me.

I don't expect the dealer to eat the expensive part and three or four hours of labor to swap out said expensive part. Strange circumstance, it seems, but it is what it is. I suppose I'll just have to hope that the motor fails before the warranty expires so they can replace the assembly under warranty.

Antony (Tripod)
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post #2 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 5:59 am
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This seems odd to me.

The only time my windshield got bent enough to notice was when the bike was partially dropped onto a car by a not so smart parking attendant who was trying to move my parked bike and had it get away from him. I was able to pop it back into alignment with a little tugging.

I have adjusted my shield at speeds up to and including 85 mph. I have a Cee Bailey shield that is 4" taller than stock. While it adjusts a little slower at speed (presumably because of wind resistance) it works just fine.

I would not accept the dealers/BMW response. I do not recall seeing any warning in the rider manual for the bike. In my opinion you should press for repair at their expense. At worst, bend it back into shape, or get some advice here on the board for how to repair.

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post #3 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 6:11 am
 
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I just looked through my owner's manual and the only information given on the windshield is how to operate it. There is nothing on any speed restrictions for its operation.
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post #4 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 9:38 am
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Tony, can you ascertain it is the windshield arms, and not the windshield itself, that are bent?
I am a bit puzzled by your dealer comment. Besides, how can they be sure you adjusted the windshield while driving at high speed, and that there isn't another cause for the problem?

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post #5 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 9:51 am
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I have a '99 and there is nothing in the owner's manual about not adjusting the windshield above a certain speed. BMW can send out all the directives they want, but if it's not in the manual or any of the documentation supplied with the bike, then they should have to honor the warranty and I'm sure that a court would uphold that.

Small claims court can be a very effective way of persuading the dealer/BMW to see it your way. It is cheaper for them to replace the broken part for you than to hire an attorney to appear for them. You might want to mention this to them after you ask them to point out to you the information you missed in YOUR manual.

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post #6 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 10:40 am
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Call me, Tony

After 1:30 Tuesday or the rest of the week...I'll get you squared away on that one, had the same issue.

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post #7 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 12:00 pm
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I don't want to stir this pot too much, but isn't the dealer's response kind of like changing the rules after the game has begun? Even if it is a bona fide issue, shouldn't that result in a recall or warranty repair... not a warning to stop using the windshield above a certain speed?

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post #8 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 12:40 pm
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Lop-side Windscreen can also be due to tight bushings

Tony,

Last fall my windscreen started acting-up and not fully extending or retracting. Some times it would get a bit lop-sided. My first thought was that I had a broken lift arm.

What I discovered was that the bushings on the lifting arms needed lubrication. If the bushing(s) on one are are sticking it can cause the windscreen to twist. I used a bit of silicone based lub called Tri-Flow in the aerosol dispenser with an extension tube. With this set-up there is not need to remove the windscreen.

Good Luck

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post #9 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 1:11 pm
 
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Do you have a stock windshield? I can see them not covering it if someone installs a barn door windshield. I think the windshield was hit or if it's not the stock shield, then the stock one got hit & replaced. I ride with mine all the way down 90% of the time, but it has been raised many times at high speed. I even had the wind blow my garage door in & destroy my stock shield & didn't bend anything.
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post #10 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 1:17 pm Thread Starter
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I can only relay what I was told by the dealer, and cannot vouch for the veracity of the statements.

On the one brief trip that I made on the bike in the few days I have owned it, I did not touch the wind screen control on the freeway. I cannot find anything in the manual that says don't raise the wind screen at 70mph, either. Is there some bulletin that was sent to dealers but not to the customer base? Doesn't seem equitable to do a take-away like this, if that is what happened.

I can't quote any engineering formulas on wind forces, but it seems that if the bracket is strong enough to support the screen without bending at highway speeds, then the act of raising it should not change the equation, should it? Continuing along those lines, what if the arm bent from wind forces while riding at 70 MPH? At 80? At 90? What speed causes the arm to bend/deform? How about headwind or quartering headwinds? Shouldn't the arm withstand these forces without deforming?

So many variables, how can they say this is not covered because of the wind force and yet of the motor burns up they will replace the whole thing? The more I think about it, and the more input I get, the less right this seems. I am not faulting the dealer, or anyone else. I just want a squared-away answer.

Does anyone have a contact at BMW that I can follow up with?

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #11 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 2:28 pm
 
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I can tell you 120mph+ won't bend it & I played with the shield up & down to see the effects.
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post #12 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 2:54 pm
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Hey Tony, I bet the previous owner dropped it and broke the holding point and the arm popped out.



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post #13 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 3:06 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Hey Tony, I bet the previous owner dropped it and broke the holding point and the arm popped out.
Hi, Grif, good to hear from you.

Bike does not appear to be dropped. The screen goes fully up and down (hits nose cone on right side going down, move it out of the way and screen goes down the rest of the way). Dealer says it is simply out of alignment and slightly twisted as the arm is bent a tad. Dealer reports arm was apparently bent by the wind and thus not covered by warranty.


Antony (Tripod)
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post #14 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 3:12 pm
 
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"Dealer reports arm was apparently bent by the wind and thus not covered by warranty." THAT'S BUULLLSSHH%#$#TTT!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #15 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 3:31 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_E
"Dealer reports arm was apparently bent by the wind and thus not covered by warranty." THAT'S BUULLLSSHH%#$#TTT!!!!!!!!!!!
Would I be correct in interpreting your remark as calling BS on the dealer, and not on my report of what the dealer told me?

Antony (Tripod)
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post #16 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 3:37 pm
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BIG Windshields.......

Installing a CB's was my first or second "gotta change that...." and because the CB (EuroCut -5") is so much wider I just naturally presumed that it was gonna catch a lot more wind than the OEM. So I just started tapping the "up" button just a bit at a time, until the shield was where I wanted it. I don't get on it with my size 11 1/2's....just tap it until it's there. Having ideas like "Well, hell....they shoulda built that sumitch so it'd hold a barn door on it and still be fixin' to raise it up to wher uh wan it at a hunert miles an hour..." is just an absurd way of thinking. No mfg in the world builds thing for the "after-market" crowd.....stop and think about it......they design things for THEIR requirements.....not somebody else's. $$$ are what controls how far they can push things.

How many of you are willin' to experiment with this.....take a drive in your cage for me......put your left hand behind a dinner plate and hang it out the window......now crank the speed up to 50 - 60 - 70 - 80 - or 90 mph.....still there?? Good...............now change it out for a TV tray and do it all over again............Hmmmmmmm...... tear the muscles in your arm did it?? Gonna holler at god because he wasn't thinking far enough down the road?? Get a grip......a bit of common sense would save you a LOT of aggravation.

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post #17 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 7:08 pm
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How many of you have had an Aeroflow windshield? I had one at one time, it's now one of Sandar the mag's portable greenhouses.

That windshield WOULD NOT raise when going over 80. I never had a problem with any of the others and the windshield mechanism and motor never quit, bent or did any other strange thangs. I've ridden in some ferocious weather, too.

I did drop the bike against my bench once, causing one of the windshield arms to pop out of place, it acted like yours does now. I took it apart and gave it some Southern engineering and never had any more problems with it.

I reckon I'm calling bullshit on the dealer.



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post #18 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 8:04 pm
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Hi, I just checked my 07 manuals and there is no mention on speed causing any problems to the mechanism of the windshield. No warnings of any kind If what the dealer say is true then they should have modified or updated the new manual; there is no mention of such. Tony I think that the dealer is not to be trusted. I hope this helps


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post #19 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 11:16 am
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I'll concede that your service manager (I hope that is the person to whom you have been talking) has seen more LTs with windshield problems than I have, but I bet I've read more posts and talked to more LT owners about windshield problems than your service manager has, and I've never heard of a windshield positioner arm being bent, not by wind, not by raising the windsheild at any speed, not by dropping the bike. I would like to know how the service manager diagnosed a bent arm. As Grif noted, the more likely diagnosis is a pivot pin that has come out of its base because the holding tab(s) on that side have broken (this is based purely on the apparant frequency of broken tabs vs a bent arm). Pic 1 shows a pin held securely in place by the tabs (left side of my bike). Pic 2 shows a pin that rides up out of its base (because of the upward pull of the spring) when the tabs are broken off (don't know how that happened, but I bought the bike second hand). Pic 3 shows where the pivot pin should be (held down by my finger). I don't know if broken tabs are covered under warrantee. You can find one way to fix the problem in the recent post http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20680. Or (Pic 4) you can get another pivot and arm assembly from Beemer Boneyard or other non-BMW parts place (BMW does not sell this by itself). Good luck.
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post #20 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 12:05 pm
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Moving the windshield at speed is not going to put any more strain on the arms. The motor, yes the arms no. What is the difference if the screen is not moving and if it is moving while riding?

A lot more strain is put on the arms when passing a tractor trailer with the buffetting.

Sounds like BS to me.
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post #21 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 1:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by was
I'll concede that your service manager (I hope that is the person to whom you have been talking) has seen more LTs with windshield problems than I have, but I bet I've read more posts and talked to more LT owners about windshield problems than your service manager has, and I've never heard of a windshield positioner arm being bent, not by wind, not by raising the windsheild at any speed, not by dropping the bike. I would like to know how the service manager diagnosed a bent arm. As Grif noted, the more likely diagnosis is a pivot pin that has come out of its base because the holding tab(s) on that side have broken (this is based purely on the apparant frequency of broken tabs vs a bent arm). Pic 1 shows a pin held securely in place by the tabs (left side of my bike). Pic 2 shows a pin that rides up out of its base (because of the upward pull of the spring) when the tabs are broken off (don't know how that happened, but I bought the bike second hand). Pic 3 shows where the pivot pin should be (held down by my finger). I don't know if broken tabs are covered under warrantee. You can find one way to fix the problem in the recent post http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20680. Or (Pic 4) you can get another pivot and arm assembly from Beemer Boneyard or other non-BMW parts place (BMW does not sell this by itself). Good luck.
+1 I don't think that the arms will bend without breaking, if it is bent then it will have to be replaced. And yes I think you should call BS on the dealer! and if that doesn't work go to a different dealer.

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post #22 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 1:56 pm
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by was
Pic 1 shows... Pic 2 shows... Pic 3 shows... (Pic 4)....
I think this is the problem with my windscreen. Thanks for your helpful post!!
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post #23 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 6:38 pm Thread Starter
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It seems that the dealer was just plain wrong, on several counts:

1) Can find no mention in the manual regarding not raising the windscreen while at speed.
2) Checked at two other dealers, neither heard of the alleged BMW bulletin about the arms bending if windscreen is raised at highway speeds.
3) My arm was not bent.

I had some friends over the house Friday who are members here at the site. One glance at the windscreen and they noticed the pivot pin out of the socket (with a nod to Bill (WAS) who suspected the same problem). In no time, these fellows had the screen off, pulled the c-clips, reseated the pins, and reinstalled the screen. Total time was under ten minutes. Hooorahh!

I'm proud that these friends were so sharp. Thank you, gentlemen. I'm also quite disappointed that the dealer missed such an easily discernible problem, and was so confident about his diagnosis to boot.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #24 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 7:03 pm
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Good friends to have!

You are traveling with the right crowd! Thanks for the nod in my direction, but Grif called it before I did, and anything I know about the LT I learned here, so I can't take any credit. Just another example of why this is the best site on the Web; people learn stuff, they pass it on, it gets refined, and it seems like there is always someone on the forum who knows the answer or can direct you toward the answer, or at least will commiserate while you search for the answer. Glad the windshield mounting got fixed.

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post #25 of 26 Old Mar 25th, 2007, 7:30 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by was
You are traveling with the right crowd! Thanks for the nod in my direction, but Grif called it before I did, and anything I know about the LT I learned here, so I can't take any credit. Just another example of why this is the best site on the Web; people learn stuff, they pass it on, it gets refined, and it seems like there is always someone on the forum who knows the answer or can direct you toward the answer, or at least will commiserate while you search for the answer. Glad the windshield mounting got fixed.
Agreed on all points.

Sorry, Grif, didn't mean to shortchange ya. I had forgotten about your post, I really should see a doctor about my worsening CRS!

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post #26 of 26 Old Mar 26th, 2007, 5:12 pm
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I'm glad you got it figured out and that the board came through again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
I noticed that the windshield on my '05 was looking kinda crooked, and I pointed this out to the dealer. I was told that this can happen from the wind forces when one tries to raise the windshield at 70mph, that BMW put out a bulletin to dealers that this was no longer going to eligible for warranty claims, ...
This was true of the first generration of electrically operated windshields on the '91 K1100LT. It was corrected by '93 or '94, IIRC.

George
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