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post #1 of 27 Old Mar 10th, 2007, 9:36 am Thread Starter
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Haul Road and EVO brakes

While reading Doug Raymondís outstanding article "How Not to Ride the Haul Road" in the latest BMWON, I was thinking great idea as he was describing the Ďkill switch Ė engine brakeí technique for dealing with down hill mud on his linked-brakes bike.

If you haven't read the article yet, Doug rode his '02 1150RT with linked brakes up the Haul Road in the rain. When going too fast downhill in conditions where he feared any use of the linked brakes, which apply both front and rear brakes, would cause the front wheel to slide out, he killed the engine and modulated the clutch to use engine braking to slow the bike.

But what about the ABS part of the linked brake system? Isnít the whole point of ABS to be able to brake in slick, slippery situations? I realized, or have read, that motorcycle ABS systems arenít effective in turns, slides, or if youíre not moving straight ahead, but even though the front and rear are linked in application, aren't the ABS sensors independent? And canít or doesnít the BMW EVO ABS system have some dynamic balancing of front / rear as conditions change?

I appreciate you donít want the front brake to ever lock up, but should you find yourself on a linked-brake bike in a situation like Doug, whatís the Ďbestí approach to slowing / stopping. Can someone enlighten me?

Motor On ,/'


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post #2 of 27 Old Mar 10th, 2007, 10:18 am
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Check out the MOA forum. Doug explains his breaking and how it worked, along with others who put in their $0.02.

Doug put on a slide show for our club in February. Did a great job. I don't think I would want to try that trip in just 2 weeks.
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post #3 of 27 Old Mar 10th, 2007, 11:27 am
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From reading the article and what he said a few times in it re: tires, I think his big mistake was not getting new tires at the outset and "sacrificing" those at the end of the trip and getting another new set.

( He had 4,000 miles on his RT's tires before he started. His plan was to use the hell out of that set as he was expecting to have to plug them during the trip and buy new ones at the end )

He couldn't steer straight or stop in the slick road, mud, whatever, and I think this caused him too much concern. Maybe you could say he shoulda had a GT, but new, different tires may have saved him some aches and pains and damage to the bike.

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post #4 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 1:49 pm
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Dumb and Dumber

Whatever the braking technique, the Haul Road article was a fine example of poor planning, unnecessary risk, and impaired judgment. I found it ironic that the excellent article on Situational Awareness(2nd in a series) preceded it in the magazine. You can practically go item by item and determine very quickly that Doug Raymond is very fortunate to still be among the living. The Haul Road and the Alaskan wilderness(not what you see from a cruiseship) are dangerous places unlike anything in the lower 48 states. The smart rider would not have continued to push the envelope at nearly every opportunity and never would have had to use an engine cutting technique in horrible conditions. Perhaps an article on the physics of contact patch traction in hazardous conditions should be the follow up article?

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post #5 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 2:11 pm
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Unhappy A little too harsh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
Whatever the braking technique, the Haul Road article was a fine example of poor planning, unnecessary risk, and impaired judgment. I found it ironic that the excellent article on Situational Awareness(2nd in a series) preceded it in the magazine. You can practically go item by item and determine very quickly that Doug Raymond is very fortunate to still be among the living. The Haul Road and the Alaskan wilderness(not what you see from a cruiseship) are dangerous places unlike anything in the lower 48 states. The smart rider would not have continued to push the envelope at nearly every opportunity and never would have had to use an engine cutting technique in horrible conditions. Perhaps an article on the physics of contact patch traction in hazardous conditions should be the follow up article?
I think you're being a little too harsh here. Everyone has their own threshold of what acceptable risk is, an whether or not it is worth pushing that threshold. I rode the Haul Road during the '01 Iron Butt. I imagine you think that riding from Kennewick, WA, to Prudhoe Bay, to Madison, AL, in 6 1/2 days, was irresponsible. Heck, you might even be one of those people who think the Iron Butt rally is irresponsible.

Some of us choose to push our own limits. I had a blast going to Prudoe on the 'Butt and have never regretted doing it.

George
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post #6 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 2:22 pm
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He should of had a GT? ... did you mean GS?

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post #7 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 2:38 pm
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I think the part where he started riding faster to get away from the wolf is about the funniest thing ever...LOL! What did he really think that wolf was going to do, eat him? LOL! And what do dogs do when something tries to run away??? DUH! Besides that, there are waaaaaay too many drama queens riding beemers I think, always fretting about this or that, scared of this or that..... yet still willing to ride a street motorcycle with no spare fuel, in the mud, in the wilderness, alone, on bald tires.... HAHAHA... the irony is the best part. All you ever hear about is ATGATT this and AGATT that... at least he would have been just bruised or broken while laying underneath his bike as one of the logging trucks barrelled right over him..... leaving his bones behind for the wolf to eat! LOL..... Too funny! The whole article was just drama about a ride man..... not the Bataan Death March or something.....
Man...this sounds harsh.... but really I just think I'm getting worn out by hearing all the warnings and drama - we all know the risks, now get out and have some fun - just use some judgement for gosh gollies sake!

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post #8 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 3:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBarnes
I think you're being a little too harsh here. Everyone has their own threshold of what acceptable risk is, an whether or not it is worth pushing that threshold. I rode the Haul Road during the '01 Iron Butt. I imagine you think that riding from Kennewick, WA, to Prudhoe Bay, to Madison, AL, in 6 1/2 days, was irresponsible. Heck, you might even be one of those people who think the Iron Butt rally is irresponsible.

Some of us choose to push our own limits. I had a blast going to Prudoe on the 'Butt and have never regretted doing it.

George
I guess you did that on your LT? how did it fair? tear anything up or was the road in half decent shape, ok ok half decent for haul road?

Thanks
Tom

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post #9 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 3:32 pm
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Originally Posted by KMC1
I think the part where he started riding faster to get away from the wolf is about the funniest thing ever...LOL! What did he really think that wolf was going to do, eat him? LOL! And what do dogs do when something tries to run away??? DUH! Besides that, there are waaaaaay too many drama queens riding beemers I think, always fretting about this or that, scared of this or that..... yet still willing to ride a street motorcycle with no spare fuel, in the mud, in the wilderness, alone, on bald tires.... HAHAHA... the irony is the best part. All you ever hear about is ATGATT this and AGATT that... at least he would have been just bruised or broken while laying underneath his bike as one of the logging trucks barrelled right over him..... leaving his bones behind for the wolf to eat! LOL..... Too funny! The whole article was just drama about a ride man..... not the Bataan Death March or something.....
Man...this sounds harsh.... but really I just think I'm getting worn out by hearing all the warnings and drama - we all know the risks, now get out and have some fun - just use some judgement for gosh gollies sake!

DAMN IT!
you owe me a keyboard, this is one of the best posts I have seen in a while!
I have had a great laugh thanks!

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post #10 of 27 Old Mar 16th, 2007, 6:45 pm
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Talking Gas IT !

Here is a trick when the ABS activates , Just apply a little gas and the abs modulation stops all is well. If you do not have off road experence this technique is advanced and will require practice.

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post #11 of 27 Old Mar 17th, 2007, 7:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
I guess you did that on your LT? how did it fair? tear anything up or was the road in half decent shape, ok ok half decent for haul road?

Thanks
Tom
Yes & no. At the time I was on my K1100LT, and it did just fine. A friend, Asa McFadden, took his brand new 1200LT up there, (on the same rally), and he told me he thought he was better off than the guys on GSs because he was lower to the ground. He also said the big LT did just fine.

GB
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post #12 of 27 Old Mar 17th, 2007, 10:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
Whatever the braking technique, the Haul Road article was a fine example of poor planning, unnecessary risk, and impaired judgment. I found it ironic that the excellent article on Situational Awareness(2nd in a series) preceded it in the magazine. You can practically go item by item and determine very quickly that Doug Raymond is very fortunate to still be among the living. The Haul Road and the Alaskan wilderness(not what you see from a cruiseship) are dangerous places unlike anything in the lower 48 states. The smart rider would not have continued to push the envelope at nearly every opportunity and never would have had to use an engine cutting technique in horrible conditions. Perhaps an article on the physics of contact patch traction in hazardous conditions should be the follow up article?
+1 I thought the guy was "sub-optimal" in his logic... I wonder, if he were to ride the road again, would he do it differently?

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post #13 of 27 Old Mar 17th, 2007, 10:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
I think the part where he started riding faster to get away from the wolf is about the funniest thing ever...LOL! What did he really think that wolf was going to do, eat him? LOL! And what do dogs do when something tries to run away??? DUH! Besides that, there are waaaaaay too many drama queens riding beemers I think, always fretting about this or that, scared of this or that..... yet still willing to ride a street motorcycle with no spare fuel, in the mud, in the wilderness, alone, on bald tires.... HAHAHA... the irony is the best part. All you ever hear about is ATGATT this and AGATT that... at least he would have been just bruised or broken while laying underneath his bike as one of the logging trucks barrelled right over him..... leaving his bones behind for the wolf to eat! LOL..... Too funny! The whole article was just drama about a ride man..... not the Bataan Death March or something.....
Man...this sounds harsh.... but really I just think I'm getting worn out by hearing all the warnings and drama - we all know the risks, now get out and have some fun - just use some judgement for gosh gollies sake!
Geez, Kevin, you been into the scotch again? You know the best stories and perhaps "learning" experiences are when you ALMOST die, but don't, so you can live to tell about it, and since you AREN'T dead, it couldn't have been that bad to begin with now, could it?!

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post #14 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 7:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBarnes
Yes & no. At the time I was on my K1100LT, and it did just fine. A friend, Asa McFadden, took his brand new 1200LT up there, (on the same rally), and he told me he thought he was better off than the guys on GSs because he was lower to the ground. He also said the big LT did just fine.

GB
Thanks, I missed the dinner buit that would have been a quesiton of mine had I met someone who rode the K12LT up there, seems like it could take a beating and damage suspension parts

one of the things I want to do is Haul road PB to KW

No I'm Not going for a record !

Thanks again George

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post #15 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 8:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
...one of the things I want to do is Haul road PB to KW

No I'm Not going for a record ! ...


Tom, if I interpret your post correctly, you're talking about riding from Point Barrow, AK to Key West, FL. That is something I'd like to do, too ... "some day". When I think about why I would want to do it there isn't any overriding reason -- I'm not looking to break any records or anything, as you mention; maybe it's because it's the farthest point in the US that one can ride. It sounds like a real adventure.

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post #16 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by hschisler


Tom, if I interpret your post correctly, you're talking about riding from Point Barrow, AK to Key West, FL. That is something I'd like to do, too ... "some day". When I think about why I would want to do it there isn't any overriding reason -- I'm not looking to break any records or anything, as you mention; maybe it's because it's the farthest point in the US that one can ride. It sounds like a real adventure.

point who?, no I'm talking prudhoe bay i'll have to look into Point Barrow

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post #17 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 7:18 pm
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Originally Posted by tmgs
point who?, no I'm talking prudhoe bay i'll have to look into Point Barrow
That's funny, because I meant to say "Prudhoe Bay"; I have no idea where Point Barrow came from (some deep, dark recess in my mind), but it's also an extremely northern outpost in Alaska. I read the article in BMW ON and have read other ride tales of Key West to Prudhoe Bay. Why I said Point Barrow... I don't know.

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post #18 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 7:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWphreak
Geez, Kevin, you been into the scotch again? You know the best stories and perhaps "learning" experiences are when you ALMOST die, but don't, so you can live to tell about it, and since you AREN'T dead, it couldn't have been that bad to begin with now, could it?!
Ahhhh... I got ahold of some Belgian beer and everything after that is just a blur..........Next thing I know and I'm waking up with my head laying on the keyboard.............

Queue the AFLACK duck, annnnnd ACTION!

"ATGATT!!"

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post #19 of 27 Old Mar 18th, 2007, 10:46 pm
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I am looking to ride up there June '08. But not on the LT

The plan is to buy a used GSA in Jan/feb get it outfitted as needed, get familiar with the bike and then head north with the idea of selling the bike on my return. Unless of course I completely trash it or, more that likely, completely love it. I loved the article because even though I am over a year away I am jazzed and I am sucking it all in and enjoying every tale. Ken
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post #20 of 27 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 7:41 am
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that is funny then,

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/geo/s...ractionNo=8064

the northern most totem pole!
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/...actionNo==8064

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post #21 of 27 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 7:50 am
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I am looking to ride up there June '08. But not on the LT

The plan is to buy a used GSA in Jan/feb get it outfitted as needed, get familiar with the bike and then head north with the idea of selling the bike on my return. Unless of course I completely trash it or, more that likely, completely love it. I loved the article because even though I am over a year away I am jazzed and I am sucking it all in and enjoying every tale. Ken
Just make sure you can reach the ground on it it is much easier for off road that way

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post #22 of 27 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 1:03 pm
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Notice in the article how he was passed on numerous occassions by guys on GS's. I imagine these guys had tires that were appropriate for the conditions. Spending the kind of money that he did on a two week trip, it seems like false economy to cheap out on the tires and risk ruining it.
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post #23 of 27 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 1:25 pm
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Notice in the article how he was passed on numerous occassions by guys on GS's. I imagine these guys had tires that were appropriate for the conditions. Spending the kind of money that he did on a two week trip, it seems like false economy to cheap out on the tires and risk ruining it.
I am planning a trip to the Arctic Circle and Alaska this June. I have decided to ride the Dempster to Inuvik rather than The Haul Road. All indications are that the two roads are similar with a distinct advantage for the Dempster for lack of truck traffic. The Dempster is also supposed to be a little more scenic. If you want to stick your foot in the Arctic, you can't do that from Inuvik unless you fly to Tuktoyaktuk. If you want to do it in Prudhoe Bay you will have to take a bus from Deadhorse. That part of the adventure does not interest me, so I am headed to Inuvik. I hear the plane ride to Tuk is worth taking and I may do that if time allows.

I will be switching from Tourances to TKC-80s at Whitehorse and run on them to Inuvik and points in Alaska. I will probably have around 3000 miles on them by the time I go back through Whitehorse to get my Tourances remounted.

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post #24 of 27 Old Mar 19th, 2007, 1:31 pm
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I am looking to ride up there June '08. But not on the LT

The plan is to buy a used GSA in Jan/feb get it outfitted as needed, get familiar with the bike and then head north with the idea of selling the bike on my return. Unless of course I completely trash it or, more that likely, completely love it. I loved the article because even though I am over a year away I am jazzed and I am sucking it all in and enjoying every tale. Ken
I'll bet you are so enamored with the GS that you keep it.


Here is a thread on Advrider that is one of the best chronicles of the journey I have read so far.

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post #25 of 27 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 12:26 pm
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That's funny, because I meant to say "Prudhoe Bay"; I have no idea where Point Barrow came from (some deep, dark recess in my mind), but it's also an extremely northern outpost in Alaska. I read the article in BMW ON and have read other ride tales of Key West to Prudhoe Bay. Why I said Point Barrow... I don't know.
I do, but I ain't sayin'.

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bmwlt.com lately????



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post #26 of 27 Old Mar 20th, 2007, 6:23 pm
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I do, but I ain't sayin'.
Then please fill me in. PM me if you need/want to. The only thing I can think of is, maybe it's Coast Guard-related.

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post #27 of 27 Old Mar 30th, 2007, 11:04 pm
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+1 I thought the guy was "sub-optimal" in his logic... I wonder, if he were to ride the road again, would he do it differently?
Well, of course he would! He'd probably bring along his own beer cans rather than relying on luck.

Regards,
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