Me versus Bicyclist - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Me versus Bicyclist

Well it happened yesterday on SR150 outside of Boulder CO. As I was ascending a hill on this 50mph posted rural two-lane road a small gaggle of bicyclists were stopped in the bike lane and moving off the road when their lead rider, all of a sudden w/ no warning, made a wide u-turn over the double yellow line, just as I was cresting the hill. He said he looked in his 1/2" in diameter helmet mounted rearview mirror and didn't see anything so went for it to return back with his buds. Thankfully was able to brake and serve enough to barely avoid a direct hit. My wheel snapped clockwise briefly as my right mirror clipped the cyclist who fell to the ground. He was not badly injured, mainly a big strawberry on one buttock. I was able to stay upright and an eyewitness ran over to me and said the cyclist was 100% responsible and gave me his contact info. The police filed the report in keeping w/ the eyewitness testimony.

As is typical for me on hills that are at all blind I will slow down some which is what I did here. I was probably going right at 46 or so mph at the time I made visual contact w/ the cyclist. You can see in the photo there is very little distance between the crest of the hill in the background, and where the gaggle of cyclists were, with just two remaining in the photo. I had almost no time to react. Fortunately we both dodged massive bullets. My mirror housing popped off, the eyewitness grabbed it and returned it to me, and it just snapped back into place with a little finagling.

Lots of bicyclists all over the Denver area. I always try to give full wide births and did here too, except for the guy who decided to make a wide u-turn on a 50mph posted road w/ poor visibility past the decline, and thru a 1/2" wide angle mirror presumably to verify it was safe to do.

Cheers and ride as safe as you can!

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post #2 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 3:17 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Thanks for the story. My wife and I plan on being in the area in August sometime. So we'll need to be prepared for bicyclists.
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post #3 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 3:22 pm
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Devilish thing that vanishing point. Good on you for slowing appropriately. Good form and likely saved you both from more urgent issues. He's hoping some ambulance-chasing slimeball doesn't smell any money.

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post #4 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 3:48 pm
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Scary! Good save. I never trust mirrors.
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post #5 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 4:26 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Wow! Scary! Glad you are okay... and, the cyclist, too.

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post #6 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 6:42 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Wow...that cyclist is lucky it was you that was cresting that hill or he'd be a grease spot on the highway. I hope he expressed his sincere apologies and a big thank you.

Life happens...you control your reaction.

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post #7 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 8:47 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Cycling is near and dear to me, and I can tell you that it's not necessarily about bicyclists so much as about people making bad decisions. I'm glad you were able to minimize the consequences this dude may have otherwise had coming.
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post #8 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 10:00 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Wow...that cyclist is lucky it was you that was cresting that hill or he'd be a grease spot on the highway. I hope he expressed his sincere apologies and a big thank you.
He never did which leads me to believe he's probably just protecting his ego from self-recrimination. His action almost got us both killed and killed his expensive bike. Seems an affable fellow, just never did admit any fault himself. I don't have the glands to ride a bicycle w/ that little white bike lane as my primary defense against all that distracted driving traffic behind me. Just not worth it to me. I feel far safer on a motorcycle. Fortunately we have an amazing system of fabulous paved meandering bike trails here in the Denver area and it's such a pleasure to peddle away and not have to worry about traffic beyond other bicycles. We do a 12-16 mile loop 3x a week in one direction or another it's really great!

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post #9 of 41 Old Jun 26th, 2019, 10:42 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Why I ride with a camera!! His buddies could had easily stuck together and said it was your fault, then its your word vs a group of people. Glad everything ended well though, we have the same issue around here too. Normally though they are riding 3x or 4x wide taking up the entire lane in one of our twisty areas. Super annoying when coming around a corner and you have a wall of bikes (which is illegal btw) in your path.
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post #10 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 1:10 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

This story reminds me of this (Start at 2:30)


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post #11 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 7:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Why I ride with a camera!! His buddies could had easily stuck together and said it was your fault, then its your word vs a group of people. Glad everything ended well though, we have the same issue around here too. Normally though they are riding 3x or 4x wide taking up the entire lane in one of our twisty areas. Super annoying when coming around a corner and you have a wall of bikes (which is illegal btw) in your path.
Probably a good idea however fortunately that wasn't going to be the case here because a 3rd party eye witness saw the whole thing thankfully.

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post #12 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 8:16 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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This story reminds me of this (Start at 2:30)

https://youtu.be/oZeOX_HDvQc?t=149
A couple of mistakes there...certainly, the bicyclist passing on the right. However, the truck driver also did not signal his right turn.

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post #13 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 10:50 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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A couple of mistakes there...certainly, the bicyclist passing on the right. However, the truck driver also did not signal his right turn.
Yes I would put both at fault on that one.

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post #14 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 12:15 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Yes I would put both at fault on that one.
Your attitude unfortunately reflects the outcome in a lot of incidents like this, mostly because the police don't feel like investigating - or even familiarizing themselves with the law as it is written, or in spirit.

An automobile operator enters into a compact with his neighbors that he will obey the law, all while taking control of a heavy, deadly and mechanically complicated machine. Every day, many people just don't care about that social contract and do whatever they please - with predictable results.

The bicyclist in the video had EVERY RIGHT to pass on the right. The automobile operator had the responsibility to confirm a clear path and signal his intent, but he could not be bothered to do either - with predictable results.

As a motorcycle operator, I have the same responsibilities.
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post #15 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 1:13 pm
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The truck operator should be signaling his intention to turn and should activate that signal intent, before making the turn, and/or if already stopped, provide a sufficient delay before actually executing the turn.

The bicycle operator was moving too fast for the traffic flow/conjestion/conditions at the time.

Both have fault here
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post #16 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 1:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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The bicyclist in the video had EVERY RIGHT to pass on the right.
I hear this from cyclists and feel sorry for them because they are confusing RIGHTS with SMART. There's enough of that, 'I have a right...' to do whatever, but that is just not going to save you, ever! That bicyclist threading thru that traffic at that relative speed--it was only going to be a matter of time, and indeed it was for him. Stupid is as stupid does.
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post #17 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 5:22 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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The truck operator should be signaling his intention to turn and should activate that signal intent, before making the turn, and/or if already stopped, provide a sufficient delay before actually executing the turn.

The bicycle operator was moving too fast for the traffic flow/conjestion/conditions at the time.

Both have fault here
You are demonstrating a bias common to many, if not the majority of motorists - and certainly a fair number of police.

The cyclist's speed is irrelevant. He would have been run over whether he was going 5 or 25.
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post #18 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 5:26 pm
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If he were traveling slower, he may not have been in the area at the time the truck turned ?

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post #19 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 5:36 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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You are demonstrating a bias common to many, if not the majority of motorists - and certainly a fair number of police.

The cyclist's speed is irrelevant. He would have been run over whether he was going 5 or 25.

Who has bias ?
You seem to think that a rider should be free from any responsibility to ride in a safe manor and can do any speed. Apparently it is always the motor vehicle driver's fault with his mechanically complicated machine.
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post #20 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 5:42 pm Thread Starter
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The cyclist's speed is irrelevant. He would have been run over whether he was going 5 or 25.
Nonsense. Speed matters for everyone involved just like it does on your motorcycle: both other traffic and the cyclist have more time to see, react and change course.

This is the classic attitude from other cyclists who truly believe it's their 'right': sure it is, the law says so. That might help you when you sue for damages if you survive but that's all it's good for. I see cyclists put themselves at risk because they operate under the 'it's my right' orientation. About 800 cyclists die annually in the US, and there are another 40,000 injuries to cyclists who didn't die.

Put another way, if motorcyclists shared this same attitude there would be triple the fatalities. Motorcyclists often are under no illusion traffic is out do do them in. Avid cyclists OTOH often seem to have a sense of righteousness that feeds their sense of entitlement on the roads. Sure, everyone should try to be super respectful of others on the road no matter the form of transport. But the reality is cyclists are super vulnerable, and like prey in the wild must take all measures to avoid getting nailed.
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post #21 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 9:53 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Nonsense. Speed matters for everyone involved just like it does on your motorcycle: both other traffic and the cyclist have more time to see, react and change course.

This is the classic attitude from other cyclists who truly believe it's their 'right': sure it is, the law says so. That might help you when you sue for damages if you survive but that's all it's good for. I see cyclists put themselves at risk because they operate under the 'it's my right' orientation. About 800 cyclists die annually in the US, and there are another 40,000 injuries to cyclists who didn't die.

Put another way, if motorcyclists shared this same attitude there would be triple the fatalities. Motorcyclists often are under no illusion traffic is out do do them in. Avid cyclists OTOH often seem to have a sense of righteousness that feeds their sense of entitlement on the roads. Sure, everyone should try to be super respectful of others on the road no matter the form of transport. But the reality is cyclists are super vulnerable, and like prey in the wild must take all measures to avoid getting nailed.
I get what you're saying, but you're literally defining victim shaming.

I'm not stupid enough to believe the violence will ever end, but give credit where credit is due: to the operators of motor vehicles who pretend they are alone on private streets presenting no danger to themselves or others. This is the cause of the crash(es).

I personally mowed down a lady crossing the street against a red light. The consequences of her actions were a spilled grocery bag and embarrassment, because I was on my bicycle. Imagine it any other way!
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post #22 of 41 Old Jun 27th, 2019, 11:05 pm Thread Starter
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... but give credit where credit is due: to the operators of motor vehicles who pretend they are alone on private streets presenting no danger to themselves or others. This is the cause of the crash(es).
I agree there are a lot of bad drivers of every kind of vehicle including bicycles. One of those avid cyclists almost got me injured or killed two days ago, as well as himself. I'd like to see serious public $$ spent of public service messaging on safe driving, bicycle and motorcycle awareness, targeting tailgating, aggressive driving, etc and back those messages up w/ periodic aggressive policing. I would bet many $$ it would pay for itself many times over.

Any cyclist, who knowingly rides alongside operators of motor vehicles who pretend they are alone on privates streets, or is not stupid enough to believe the violence will ever end, and then is surprised and outraged when they get nailed by the distracted or intoxicated driver who crosses the thin white bike lane line is a victim wannabe.

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post #23 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 12:07 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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I agree there are a lot of bad drivers of every kind of vehicle including bicycles. One of those avid cyclists almost got me injured or killed two days ago, as well as himself. I'd like to see serious public $$ spent of public service messaging on safe driving, bicycle and motorcycle awareness, targeting tailgating, aggressive driving, etc and back those messages up w/ periodic aggressive policing. I would bet many $$ it would pay for itself many times over.

Any cyclist, who knowingly rides alongside operators of motor vehicles who pretend they are alone on privates streets, or is not stupid enough to believe the violence will ever end, and then is surprised and outraged when they get nailed by the distracted or intoxicated driver who crosses the thin white bike lane line is a victim wannabe.
Our cemeteries are full of oblivious criminals then. Okay. You win!
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post #24 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 7:13 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Back to the OP. Yesterday I had a car in front of me start to turn right on a street and then did a sudden U turn. I was directly behind him and decided that something was not correct in the way he was driving so after he used his right turn signal and started turning right, I did not go to the left to pass but slowed down and then he just whips his car around with a u turn. I had to stop very fast and he just waves like "sorry". Be safe out there and expect anything.
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post #25 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 7:33 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Glad nobody was seriously injured and is sounds like you were prepared and approaching cautiously.

Fortunately I am from WI where next to nobody exercises so bicyclists are rare. Deer on the other hand are a top concern and I am always watching the ditches....

Safe riding
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post #26 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 8:17 am Thread Starter
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Our cemeteries are full of oblivious criminals then. Okay. You win!
It's true, often operators of MVs are oblivious. I think that comes from the sense of security one gets operating any kind of cage. It's very easy to act as if you are driving in a protective bubble and compared to two or three-wheeling where it's obvious you're not. I've talked myself into exploring seeing what it would take to inspire our state DMV to incorporate an ongoing public information campaign re driving safety into their operating budget. It will be a good lesson for me to learn all it takes to try to get the ball rolling on something like this. Other states have done this and I think compared to the cost of first-responders, ER and hospital care, towing and car repair costs, and all of the horror that accompanies serious injuries I think it's way overdue and could be effective enough to affect outcomes meaningfully. I first thought about this when I read of one project in Connecticut in 2014.

More than 300 drivers have been ticketed in an Anti-Tailgating operation by the state police this month.

By Tuesday 318 drivers were charged with following too closely and 40 were issued warnings.

Through the initiative, called "Stop Tailgating, You're Too Close," troopers doing highway patrols in the Hartford and New Haven areas and along the shoreline will be looking to stop drivers from driving too close to the cars in front of them. They will watch for offenders on I-84, I-91, I-95 and I-691, plus on routes 8, 9, and 15, state police said.

The purpose of the campaign is to educate drivers and reduce crashes, police said. A review of areas patrolled by troopers in the central part of the state shows that tailgating causes more than 40 percent of all accidents, they said.

Police hope to bring that percentage down, said Lt. J. Paul Vance, state police spokesman.

"We're not looking to give out tickets," Vance said Friday. "That's not our objective here. We want people to know the law and understand the law and voluntarily comply with the law."

Having said that, troopers will take enforcement action when warranted, he said. The fine for violating statutes 14-240, "Vehicles to be driven reasonable distance apart," and 14-240a, "Vehicles to be driven reasonable distance apart, intent to harass or intimidate," is $132.

The state police have a new tool to help them enforce the law. Troopers will use a new laser technology that allows them to measure the distance between vehicles, Vance said.

The state Department of Transportation will help educate motorists by flashing anti-tailgating messages on highway signs, Vance said.

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post #27 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 8:36 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Glad that things worked out as well as they did and that it was witnessed by an uninvolved person.

Don’t let this spook you

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post #28 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 8:49 am
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I treat ‘all drivers’ the same.

> I respect their space,
> I tend to provide more room between me and them for evasive action (if needed),
> I always try to position myself with an escape route, should it be needed,
> I assume they are not being attentive to those around them, including ‘whoever’ is front of them on the road,
> I generally do not include motorcyclists as most are doing their part to ensure their survival as well. There are a few ‘who ride in groups’, who do not react well when their space is invaded, so I give a wide berth to ‘some groups’ I encounter on the road. This comment is not directed at the majority of group riders.. (There are some Two Wheeled Rider videos that have been posted, that reveal these actions.)
> In short, I try to stay away from high traffic areas as much as possible, to reduce potential encounters.

Riding today is not as easy and/or relaxing as it used to be. One of the leading reasons for distracted drivers is cell phone usage, and it is across all age groups. I see it every day, and ‘hands free use’ does not really mean ‘no distraction’, just ‘less distraction/concentration’.

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post #29 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 10:59 am
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I'm sure most or all of you agree but I'll throw it out there anyway: at fault decides who pays, not who could have prevented the accident. When people have to live with an injury for the rest of their lives, who was at fault doesn't mean much.

I've been in two vehicle accidents, one my fault and the other not my fault. In both cases the accident could have been prevented if either party took a different action, regardless of who was at fault. I'm talking about actions such as looking both ways before proceeding through a green light or ensuring you can be seen by other drivers while following a van or box truck. I believe this is the case with most accidents.
People make mistakes. If you drive expecting other drivers to make mistakes you will put yourself in better position to avoid an accident.
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post #30 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 12:54 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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I'm sure most or all of you agree but I'll throw it out there anyway: at fault decides who pays, not who could have prevented the accident. When people have to live with an injury for the rest of their lives, who was at fault doesn't mean much.

I've been in two vehicle accidents, one my fault and the other not my fault. In both cases the accident could have been prevented if either party took a different action, regardless of who was at fault. I'm talking about actions such as looking both ways before proceeding through a green light or ensuring you can be seen by other drivers while following a van or box truck. I believe this is the case with most accidents.
People make mistakes. If you drive expecting other drivers to make mistakes you will put yourself in better position to avoid an accident.
Your intentions are all and well and good, but you've actually nailed the problem without realizing it. Mainly it's about responsibility.

Looking is not enough! The common excuse of "I didn't see him coming" is weak, and of course misses the point entirely. Confirmation of a clear path is the absolute minimum for taking any action while driving/riding/walking/scootering/skiing/etc. 100% of all collisions are caused by one or both participants ignoring physics and their duty. In the case of the OP, it looks like the cyclist was at fault.

We're all motorcyclists, and I don't even have a car; I'm sure you're well aware of the dangers of riding, as is everyone here.

It's probably a good idea to substitute the term "collision" for "accident". There are no accidents.
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post #31 of 41 Old Jun 28th, 2019, 2:44 pm
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I agree that it is about driver responsibility but driver responsibility is not something you can control. You can talk until you're blue in the face but it won't change anything about driver responsibility. There are irresponsible drivers out there and there always will be.
The only thing we can do to minimize the chance of collision is to expect and prepare for irresponsible drivers. This is within our control.
The OP made a great decision which changed the result (bravo to the OP). The bicyclist was at fault but the important part is that the result was mitigated thanks to the OP's awareness and reaction.
The J walking lady probably would have received the lesson with a scare instead of a knock down. Only you know if you could have been more aware of the situation; only you know if you could have avoided collision with the at fault lady.
Expecting everybody to drive safely/correctly is an invitation for collision.
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post #32 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 10:50 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

I think we're all missing the basic question here - NoelCP, what kind of oil are you running?
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post #33 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 5:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Originally Posted by oldspice View Post
I think we're all missing the basic question here - NoelCP, what kind of oil are you running?
I'm running pure 10w40 teflon now. It's $89/quart but you never have to change it! My MPG has gone up 58.9mpg!
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post #34 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 7:05 pm
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Well done!
Sorry, I can get a little preachy when I hang out with Johnnie Walker.
Feel free to ignore my posts.
Got another nice ride in on my new-to-me r1200rt. Riding it keeps me away from the forum
Hoping to ride a bunch tomorrow.
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post #35 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 7:18 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Any cyclist, who knowingly rides alongside operators of motor vehicles who pretend they are alone on privates streets, or is not stupid enough to believe the violence will ever end, and then is surprised and outraged when they get nailed by the distracted or intoxicated driver who crosses the thin white bike lane line is a victim wannabe.
I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here. But let's be clear, any cyclist, pedestrian, auto driver or motorcyclist who is struck by a distracted or intoxicated driver is a victim. Period.
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post #36 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 8:00 pm
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I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here. But let's be clear, any cyclist, pedestrian, auto driver or motorcyclist who is struck by a distracted or intoxicated driver is a victim. Period.
I know I'm jumping in here but I believe I'm in agreement with some of the other posters.

Nobody is suggesting the people aren't victims in this situation. Some of us believe there is potential to be a victim and that there are actions that can be taken to minimize the chance of becoming a victim. This doesn't change who is at fault. It does appear that some bicyclists are too focused on the at-fault-offenders (that they can't control) and put themselves at a higher risk of becoming a victim.
The only poor analogy I can come up with is this: If there is a rapist in the park, is it wise to walk through the park after dark wearing skimpy clothes? If you do and you get raped YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT, BUT YOU DIDN'T TAKE ACTION TO MINIMIZE YOUR CHANCE OF BECOMING A VICTIM.
That is what I think this discussion is about.
Yes the fault is clear after the fact but all should recognize the actions they can take to minimize the chance of becoming a victim.

OK, it is Saturday night and I'm hanging with Johnnie Walker again. I'm a sucker.
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post #37 of 41 Old Jun 29th, 2019, 11:30 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

You're absolutely right about your rape victim analogy being poor. I'll also add that it is tired. At least as a man with a wife, a daughter and a grand daughter...I'm damn'd tired of it being used for victim shaming as you have done by using it. Your "not at fault" disclaimer does nothing...you chose to pull this one out of your hat to make your point and there it is. Do you think that wearing plain burlap bags would be good rape prevention?

But, I want to talk about the cyclists that we encounter on the road. Each of them is an individual and they appear on our roads with varying degrees of skill, a variety of attitudes and different levels of focus on what they are doing. The same can be said for motorcyclists, pedestrians and automobile drivers. If you think that by being co-users on our roads, that they are assuming a risk that should make others insensitive when they are stricken by someone who is distracted or inebriated (I'll add enraged to the mix), then you have to start agreeing with those who are insensitive to motorcyclists who are murdered by those same people. After all, had those motorcyclists been in an automobile, the air bag would have been deployed and their lives would have gone on...right? Or maybe they needed to be in a large auto, or an armored vehicle...do you see the slippery slope yet?

I look at it like this: Every road user has the right to the respect of every other. Every road user needs to be aware of of the others and their needs. When you see a car driver struggling to get out into a lane during rush hour, do you slow down so that he or she can join the traffic parade? When you are in your car, do you make sure that you have enough room between you and that motorcyclist ahead so that the rider isn't nervous about you tailgating? Many cyclists that I see are dressed in bright colors never found in nature and with more lights flashing on their bicycles than can be powered by a small nuclear reactor for visibility. But many others are in work clothes heading for their jobs. When you come upon them, do you slow down and move over to give them enough room for their safety?

Every single one of us makes a poor decision or a mistake while riding or driving occasionally. The cyclist that NoelCP came across was lucky that he (Noel) was on his game. The Harley guy I saw today making a left turn on a busy four lane road into oncoming traffic was glad that to hear the sound of all of those brakes as he swerved to keep from getting hit. I think that there's enough us against them going on these days. And when that happens on the road somebody gets hurt.
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post #38 of 41 Old Jun 30th, 2019, 12:07 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

This whole discussion has absolutely nothing to do with BMWs or the RT Series forum and should be moved to the Bike Talk forum where general discussions are held.

Thank you.
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post #39 of 41 Old Jun 30th, 2019, 11:40 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

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Originally Posted by Rainman48 View Post
This whole discussion has absolutely nothing to do with BMWs or the RT Series forum and should be moved to the Bike Talk forum where general discussions are held.

Thank you.
I agree... (My "Like" button still doesn't work)

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post #40 of 41 Old Jul 1st, 2019, 5:12 am
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

I ride a pushbike, a motorcycle and drive a car. (not all at the same time - although insurance companies think I do )

I always assume I need to take care and be responsible for everything I am in control of...including defensive driving/riding.

On a pushbike, as much as I have rights, I am VERY vulnerable to others misjudgements. And my life is MINE. So I treat it - and them with respect.

Yes sometimes I want to smash someone....oops. But ultimately it comes back to me.

A driver did a uturn right in front of me at 60kph. I survived...the k1600 didn't. Not my fault but I did what I could to avoid a massive accident.

I wish everyone did the same. Take responsibility and understand not everyone cares. If we all did that we would limit the accidents.

As riders I believe we are very exposed and vulnerable...especially to our own.

Take care...and recognise it's all our right! To remain safe and alive.
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post #41 of 41 Old Jul 4th, 2019, 8:51 pm
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Re: Me versus Bicyclist

Because you are in Boulder you would be at fault except for the eye witness. In Boulder peds have the first priority followed by bikes and then electric vehicles. Then hybrids cars motors and last trucks and SUVs.


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