What to do with my NEW wrecked R1200GS - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 12:00 am Thread Starter
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Unhappy What to do with my NEW wrecked R1200GS

I got the estimate for my new R1200GS that was wrecked two weeks ago (0.2 mile from the dealership). I noticed several parts that had light scratches and marks that were not on the bike when it left the showroom. Those parts were not listed on the estimate, so I imagine this is going to turn into a pissing contest between myself, the dealership and insurance company if I take responsibility for the repairs.

This was the first new bike for me since 1975! Until now, I had not been involved in MV/MC collision (30 years riding and ~150K miles). Crap, my new bike is NOT the new bike I purchased. I wish the insurance company were compelled to write a check for the full amount! Instead, I get the job of making sure the bike is put back to new condition unless I bend over.

I'll be out of commission because of my injuries for 3 to 4 more months. Sandia BMW offered to give me $2K less than I paid for it if I trade it in for a new one. And, they're willing to sell it on consignment -- no idea what the loss would be. Their repair estimate is $6800, but I suspect another few hundred dollars minimum will be required. They say the frame is not bent and the wheels are true.

Oh, I have to pay sales tax and title fees in the next 13 days, and insurance man wants $780.

My insurance agent says I won't get a check for anything more than the repairs. Yet, the warranty is winding down, the insurance premiums must be paid, TTL is due, interest/principle on my loan (LOC) must be paid. Has anyone been in a similar situation (new bike wrecked)? What would you do regarding the PD claim? Man, do I feel screwed!

I'd rather not discuss the BI claim for personal and legal reasons.

Regards,
John
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post #2 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 7:08 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
I got the estimate for my new R1200GS that was wrecked two weeks ago (0.2 mile from the dealership). I noticed several parts that had light scratches and marks that were not on the bike when it left the showroom. Those parts were not listed on the estimate, so I imagine this is going to turn into a pissing contest between myself, the dealership and insurance company if I take responsibility for the repairs.

This was the first new bike for me since 1975! Until now, I had not been involved in MV/MC collision (30 years riding and ~150K miles). Crap, my new bike is NOT the new bike I purchased. I wish the insurance company were compelled to write a check for the full amount! Instead, I get the job of making sure the bike is put back to new condition unless I bend over.

I'll be out of commission because of my injuries for 3 to 4 more months. Sandia BMW offered to give me $2K less than I paid for it if I trade it in for a new one. And, they're willing to sell it on consignment -- no idea what the loss would be. Their repair estimate is $6800, but I suspect another few hundred dollars minimum will be required. They say the frame is not bent and the wheels are true.

Oh, I have to pay sales tax and title fees in the next 13 days, and insurance man wants $780.

My insurance agent says I won't get a check for anything more than the repairs. Yet, the warranty is winding down, the insurance premiums must be paid, TTL is due, interest/principle on my loan (LOC) must be paid. Has anyone been in a similar situation (new bike wrecked)? What would you do regarding the PD claim? Man, do I feel screwed!

I'd rather not discuss the BI claim for personal and legal reasons.
John,

I would take the dealer up on their offer of a new one for $2k. Their offer to sell it for you is decent also.

Yes, you are screwed. Unless you have "gap" insurance offered by some insurance companies, you will always be out some money to replace/repair your machine to it's original condition.

Right now, just concentrate on rehabbing so that you can get back in the saddle as soon as possible.

The reason that I said I would get a new bike is that it will be one less thing on your mind. Sure, it will cost a bit more, but you will not have to worry about your wrecked bike not being the same as it was before the T/C.

That peace of mind is well worth a few extra bucks!

Your lawyer will handle the rest.

Best wishes to you and Merry Christmas!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #3 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 7:14 am
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Your obviously not in a pleasant situation, but this too will pass,
I know, I totaled a bike in May of this year.

I would take the dealers offer, it's a generous one considering that a "new" bike probably depreciated $2000 in value the moment you rode it out of their parking lot.


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post #4 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 7:57 am
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You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em..... (good grief, I can't believe I'm quoting a Kenny Roger's song).

Take the new bike.......

....and get well soon.



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post #5 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 8:55 am
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John,

All other things being equal, I have to add my voice to those who support taking the dealer's offer of trading your wrecked bike plus $2k for a brand new one.

I had a brand new SUV wrecked in the first two weeks. It was in the shop for several months while I drove myself crazy trying to get them to fix this, re-fix that, and re-re-fix this, ad-nauseum.

The insurance adjuster was of less than no help. Even though I was his customer, and the repair shop was the vendor, it was obvious to see that they were "in bed" together. I realized that the adjusters and the repair shops do business together every day, and that I was the outsider.

All of the aggravation and grief certainly did not help my physical recovery. Also, despite the lifetime warranty on the repairs, I am still finding little things that they short-cutted on that went awry, and getting them to acknowledge and fix them is quite a pain. Hell, I would have gladly paid $2k for them to total my vehicle.

So. . . short version -- If you can avoid all of this, it may be better to absorb the $2k hit and start fresh. Perhaps you might recover it through the MV's insurance if they were at faultm or through your GAP coverage, if you have any.

Whatever you decide, you need to focus on recover and rehab. It's the key to getting past this and getting back in the saddle.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #6 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 9:33 am
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Has fault of the other driver been determined?

I would settle for no less than a new bike. You have not driven it long enough for it to be considered "used".

If the other driver is at fault, time to consult an attorney. If you were determined to be at fault for any reason, you are pretty much in a battle with your insurance company, which is too often "unwinnable".

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post #7 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 11:02 am
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Confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
I wish the insurance company were compelled to write a check for the full amount!

My insurance agent says I won't get a check for anything more than the repairs. Yet, the warranty is winding down, the insurance premiums must be paid, TTL is due, interest/principle on my loan (LOC) must be paid.

I'd rather not discuss the BI claim for personal and legal reasons.
The statement interest/principle on my loan suggests that you are not the title holder, or was this a separate non vehicle specific loan (home equity). I ask because if it was a vehicle loan, the owner is the lender and hence it is their problem. This is also why the lender requires FULL REPLACEMENT INSURANCE COVERAGE on vehicle loans.

Generally it is best to let the insurance companies fight it out, especially if you were not at fault.
Sorry for your misfortune.


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post #8 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 11:25 am
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I'm with dshealey on this one. I'd consult an attorney either way since you have injuries to yourself as well. Good luck.
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post #9 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 11:43 am
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I'm not an attorney (but I play one on TV ), but I have had my share of dealings with banks, insurance companies, and vehicle crashes. [Interesting sidebar: The State of Texas now refers to them as crashes, not accidents, and has updated their reporting forms to reflect this.]

While a lender typically will "require" insurance, perhaps even "full replacement insurance coverage," in reality this is not what happens (at least not around here). This is what creates the market for "GAP" insurance, and also is why you will note boilerplate text in most vehicle finance contracts that stipulates that the borrower is ultimately responsible for repayment of the loan, regardless of what insurance pays or does not pay.

Similar is the paperwork that many medical practices impose these days. With my recent surgeries, I have had to sign a form for each provider wherein I acknowledged that I was ultimately responsible for all remaining balances after any insurance benefits were applied.

Back to motorcycles -- The insurance company did not borrow the money to buy the bike. The bike owner executes a contract with the lender to repay the debt according to certain terms. The buyer is the owner, not the lender. The lender has a lien/security interest in the property, and the buyer grants the contractual right to the lender permitting them to seize (repossess) the asset if the terms regarding repayment are not met.

The buyer also has a contract with the insurance company to provide certain coverages, subject to the stipulations of the policy contract. While the insurance companies and perhaps plaintiff's attorneys will work towards resolving matters between the parties, the borrower still has a contract with the lender. Washing one's hands of the matter and telling the lender that they need to work it with the insurance company would be, in my opinion, a very bad idea. Unless, perhaps, you don't care about your credit or the potential for civil action, and the aggravation and cost associated with those.

It's not fair to expect someone to have to pay two grand for the depreciation on a motorcycle that has less than one mile on it, I agree. But fair or not, one has to decide what the value is for avoiding the potential downside of the matter. Sometimes it is simply best to choose to fight on something where more is at stake and take the path of least resistance on others. Only those close to the matter, with knowledge of all of the facts involved, are truly in a position to make that decision.

Just another $0.02 from me. Remember that all of the advice in this thread, including mine, is free; and free advise is usually worth what you pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
The statement interest/principle on my loan suggests that you are not the title holder, or was this a separate non vehicle specific loan (home equity). I ask because if it was a vehicle loan, the owner is the lender and hence it is their problem. This is also why the lender requires FULL REPLACEMENT INSURANCE COVERAGE on vehicle loans.

Generally it is best to let the insurance companies fight it out, especially if you were not at fault.
Sorry for your misfortune.

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Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
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post #10 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 12:38 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for your input/advice

I'll sleep on it until after Christmas.

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas!

Regards,
John
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post #11 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 12:40 pm
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Thumbs up Life's Too Short

Take the new bike and eat the $2,000. You'll forget about that before too long but if you get the old 'new' bike repaired, it will always just be a 'repaired' bike and will never give you that wonderful feeling of having a new bike that has never been scarred. And besides, if you suspect a 'pissing contest' to get it put right and more money out of your pocket before all is said and done, you will be farther ahead to take the dealer up on his offer. That sounds pretty decent of him, IMHO.
That's my two cents worth. Hope you heal quickly and are up on two wheels at the earliest!

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post #12 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 1:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
Best wishes for a Merry Christmas!
And the same to you and yours, John.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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post #13 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 1:56 pm
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Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
I'll be out of commission because of my injuries for 3 to 4 more months. Sandia BMW offered to give me $2K less than I paid for it if I trade it in for a new one. And, they're willing to sell it on consignment -- no idea what the loss would be. Their repair estimate is $6800, but I suspect another few hundred dollars minimum will be required. They say the frame is not bent and the wheels are true.

Oh, I have to pay sales tax and title fees in the next 13 days, and insurance man wants $780.

My insurance agent says I won't get a check for anything more than the repairs. Yet, the warranty is winding down, the insurance premiums must be paid, TTL is due, interest/principle on my loan (LOC) must be paid. Has anyone been in a similar situation (new bike wrecked)? What would you do regarding the PD claim? Man, do I feel screwed!

I'd rather not discuss the BI claim for personal and legal reasons.
It sucks that you, the victim are the one getting screwed.

A couple of years ago my 2003 Excursion 6.0 Power Stroke was in for service and the dealer's mechanic had a wreck while driving it. They fixed it and it was not right, and they fixed it again, and it was "mostly right". I paid nothing for the repairs.

There was no structural damage, only the bumper skin and the front bezel around the grill, but to this day it doesn't look 100% what it did before the wreck.

I cannot advise you but $2000 less than I paid for it in trade and get a completely new truck would have been tempting.

Perhaps you can get that deal and have your lawyer include t as part of a settlement if you are a plaintiff, and there is a defendant in your situation?

Dan-A
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post #14 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 2:16 pm
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Very simple

Call an Attorney...

He'll get you a new bike + some extra cash for your injuries....


That's what attorney's do ..........

You'll never get a fair settlement from an insurance company without an attorney....


Just Get An Attorney...

Do it...

Do it NOW !!!!!

It's the insurance companies job to F#&K you....That's what they do...

If they played fair they'd never make any money and insurance is one of the most profitable businesses in the world...

GET AN ATTORNEY !!!!! Then sit back and watch how fast things change..

jm2cw

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post #15 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 2:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
Call an Attorney...

He'll get you a new bike + some extra cash for your injuries....


That's what attorney's do ..........

You'll never get a fair settlement from an insurance company without an attorney....


Just Get An Attorney...

Do it...

Do it NOW !!!!!

It's the insurance companies job to F#&K you....That's what they do...

If they played fair they'd never make any money and insurance is one of the most profitable businesses in the world...

GET AN ATTORNEY !!!!! Then sit back and watch how fast things change..

jm2cw

John
As much as I dislike them (attorneys & insurance co's) I agree with John 100%, get the best you can find!

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post #16 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 2:43 pm
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Get an attorney is good advice, period. Just don't expect that it will make you rich or solve all of the problems relating to an accident.

I got T-Boned on Christmas 2005. The other driver (unlicensed) admitted it was her fault (Duh!). She told the investigating officer it was her fault. She told the insurance company it was her fault. Lucky for me, her parents brought her up with a sense of personal integrity and everyone was honest.

My Sequoia was in the shop for months. The entire pax side was replaced, front to rear. Still have lingering issues with the quality of the work despite a "lifetime guarantee" on repairs from the repair shop AND from the insurance company.

I got an attorney, and he is handling the BI claim. Rule one is that they do not even START talking to the other side until ALL medical treatment is complete and all medical bills are received. Checking around, I found this to be pretty standard. For me, that was ten months after the accident, and they are now going back and forth. Will probably have to tap my own UIM coverage to cover the difference over other party's coverage limits. In this case, it is a good thing I carry that extra protection.

All that leads to this -- Attorneys are good, and help level the field between you and the mega-corporate giant insurance company. However, if the attorney handled the PD claim as well, they would have taken their standard 30% of repair money recovered, which would have left me 30% short of the repair bill. My car came out of the shop and it was all paid for, including three plus months of a new Suburban as a rental car.

Consider getting an attorney, no doubt. Consider what you want them to do for you, however. Consider where you will find value. Consider where you can find peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
Call an Attorney...

He'll get you a new bike + some extra cash for your injuries....


That's what attorney's do ..........

You'll never get a fair settlement from an insurance company without an attorney....


Just Get An Attorney...

Do it...

Do it NOW !!!!!

It's the insurance companies job to F#&K you....That's what they do...

If they played fair they'd never make any money and insurance is one of the most profitable businesses in the world...

GET AN ATTORNEY !!!!! Then sit back and watch how fast things change..

jm2cw

John

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

and many, many others.
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post #17 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 3:26 pm
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THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE.
NOBODY IN HIS RIGHT MIND OR OTHERWISE WOULD RELY ON MY BABBLING HERE.


Wow, what a Christmas present. I'm sorry for your troubles and hope you recover quickly. Just remember that it could have been a lot worse.

As a general matter, it's never a good idea to discuss matters in public that might later be contested. I know it's comforting to engage the LT community, but you run the risk of unwittingly making a statement that could be construed as an admission against your interests. So I'll keep this very general, and you keep this guardedly terse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
I noticed several parts that had light scratches and marks that were not on the bike when it left the showroom. Those parts were not listed on the estimate ....
That's odd. It seems that it's in the dealer's best interest to note every single blemish attributable to your accident. That's the purpose of a repair estimate, and the higher it is, the more they can charge your insurer. And rightfully so - the idea is to get the bike back in pre-collision condition.

Perhaps you could ask them to give it another look? Politely explain that you've noticed a few dings that were not noted on the estimate, and could someone have a look for ya. After all, when a brand new bike has a collision less than a quarter mile from the dealership, it's hard to see how any damage could have been preexisting at the time of the collision (i.e., anything that's wrong must be attributable to the collision).

If those marks were made after the collision - say, by transporting the bike - then they're properly left off the repair estimate and you can track the culprit down separately.

Quote:
I wish the insurance company were compelled to write a check for the full amount! Instead, I get the job of making sure the bike is put back to new condition unless I bend over.
You do not say why the onus falls on you. Are we still talking about the "light scratches and marks" here?

If you had collision coverage at the time of the accident, the carrier does write a check for the full amount, less deductible. It might send an adjuster out there to check it out first, but carriers are pretty good about fulfilling these relatively small obligations.

And note that adjusters are not your friends. They are frequently independent contractors hired by the insurance carrier to make sure the carrier is not getting screwed. Thus, they are as independent as can be. However, if you were an insurance company, would you hire an adjuster who reduces claim amounts or lets them stay high? Now, if you were an adjuster wanting to get hired by an insurance company, would you try to establish a reputation as a generous benefactor of the policyholders or as a stickler who scrutinizes and minimizes claims? I'm not suggesting that adjusters are consciously biased, but policyholders should understand the underlying interests when talking with them.

Quote:
Sandia BMW offered to give me $2K less than I paid for it if I trade it in for a new one. And, they're willing to sell it on consignment....
The dealer seems willing to work with you. Like us, they probably feel sympathetic about your unfortunate accident. They might, therefore, be helpful in ensuring that the repair estimate is as accurate as practicable.

As helpful as the dealer might be, I couldn't see paying another $2k to get a bike substantially the same as the one the insurance company is already obligated to give me. The dealer would likely make your trade-in contingent on the succussful assignment of your policy benefits for that reason.

I don't know if having a clear vehicle history report is worth $2k.

Someone else here can speak to whether the certainty regarding latent defects is worth $2k.

Quote:
Oh, I have to pay sales tax and title fees in the next 13 days, and insurance man wants $780.
It sucks to continue paying money on something you cannot immediately use, but that's the risk to which you signed on. When your bike is repaired or replaced and sitting at the ready in your driveway, these fees shouldn't seem quite so bad.

Except, maybe, your insurance bill, which is more than twice what I pay for full coverage on two bikes.

Quote:
My insurance agent says I won't get a check for anything more than the repairs. Yet, the warranty is winding down, the insurance premiums must be paid, TTL is due, interest/principle on my loan (LOC) must be paid.
Based on the very limited info here, the insurance agent sounds mostly right. Why would they pay more than the cost of fixing the stated damage? That's all you hired them to do. If you claim medical costs or other liabilities, that's yet another ball of wax to be discussed with your lawyer.

You've had a tough experience to be sure! But both you and your bike will be healed, and once that's done, you can put this behind you with the twist of the throttle.

Let these problems rest while you enjoy the holidays with your friends and family now. You can deal with the accident during normal business hours.

p.s., Most of the above assumes you were at fault (or else you'd be collecting from someone else's policy, if there is one). This is a huge assumption - one about which you should remain silent. You really should visit a lawyer in your area soon to discuss the particulars of your situation. Read your insurance policy to get a better understanding of things, and bring it with you when you visit your lawyer. Good luck!
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post #18 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 4:16 pm
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Crash!!!!!

I was hit by a left turner in Dec '04. My insurance co cut me a check within 2 weeks for the list price plus tax minus dedectible for my '05 LT.

BUT....that is because they considered it a total. In otherwords, it would cost more to fix it than it was worth (broken frame tab did the trick).

"If you had collision coverage at the time of the accident, the carrier does write a check for the full amount, less deductible. It might send an adjuster out there to check it out first, but carriers are pretty good about fulfilling these relatively small obligations."

This is ONLY true if the bike is considered a total (if by full amount, you mean the cost of a new bike.) If the cost to repair it is 'only' about 50% of new cost, it wont total and the insurance co will only pay for the repair. And depending on whose fault the crash is, the other guys insurance might be writing the check anyway.

I recall lying by the side of the road, looking over at my LT (with 3400 miles) and thinking "I hope it is a total." No one wants to ride a bike (or cage) with major repairs as they are never the same.

Just old, clutchless and clueless
Russ Locke
Lakehills, Texas
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post #19 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 4:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRuss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwilshire
"If you had collision coverage at the time of the accident, the carrier does write a check for the full amount, less deductible. It might send an adjuster out there to check it out first, but carriers are pretty good about fulfilling these relatively small obligations."
This is ONLY true if the bike is considered a total (if by full amount, you mean the cost of a new bike.) If the cost to repair it is 'only' about 50% of new cost, it wont total and the insurance co will only pay for the repair.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant, "full amount of the cost to repair."

Last edited by midwilshire; Dec 24th, 2006 at 8:19 pm.
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post #20 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 5:57 pm
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Thumbs up Make Your Position Clear

"I got the estimate for my new R1200GS that was wrecked two weeks ago (0.2 mile from the dealership). I noticed several parts that had light scratches and marks that were not on the bike when it left the showroom. Those parts were not listed on the estimate, so I imagine this is going to turn into a pissing contest between myself, the dealership and insurance company if I take responsibility for the repairs."

John, one of the first things to do is get the estimate for repairs updated or upgraded to include those parts that are damaged (however slightly) in the accident. I don't think that anyone would argue that the damage happened as a consequence of the accident since the bike was new and had only been driven less than a quarter of a mile. If the bike went back to the dealership where you bought it, it seems to me that if you just point out these overlooked items to them and tell them you need an updated or more inclusive estimate of the repairs, they would accommodate you. You need to make sure that they know that you want the bike ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT COMPROMISE, in BRAND NEW condition and that anything less would be unacceptable. That way they'll know that they need to anticipate any and all contingencies in this repair.
Sometimes it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Don't be afraid to make noise now rather than after the fact when it is a much more uphill battle. And keep in mind that it is absolutely your decision who will work on your bike. I've had an insurance company in the past who wanted to send one of my claims to their people for the fix... I declined. The vehicle was a week old and even though the dealership quoted a higher figure for the repair, that's the one the insurance company ended up paying.
Good luck, get well. I hope you end up with a brand new bike and, if the accident was not your fault, the other driver's insurance pays the difference. You shouldn't have to eat the $2,000 loss if it wasn't your fault.
Best regards, hang in there!!
Da SugarBear
old Harley
Yamaha Venture
Yamaha Venture Royale
Kawasaki Vulcan Classic
and finally, 1999 K1200 LT (totalled by a hit and run in Mexico June 1, 2006)
and now 2000 K1200 LT Canyon Red. my baby. I love this bike!!
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post #21 of 21 Old Dec 24th, 2006, 8:17 pm
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Yes in California, but maybe not in New Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasugarbear
And keep in mind that it is absolutely your decision who will work on your bike.
That right derives from state law (for you, Cal. Ins. C. 758.5) and may or may not be present in New Mexico.
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