Road conditions you ride on..... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 5:03 pm Thread Starter
 
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Road conditions you ride on.....

Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.

I ask because I was invited to ride last weekend with some HOG riders who felt the need to ride because it was fairly warm 55F and dry. I agreed if we would not get on the salted roads. After much discussion, I rode solo to stay off the salted cindered surfaces.

Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
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post #2 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 5:10 pm
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My bike is in good, clean condition, but I bought it to ride it...a lot. That being said, I accept the fact that it is going to get some scratches. I wash it the best I can to get the salt off, but I am not a detailer, so it looks pretty good and shouldn't corrode too badly before I have to sell or trade it in. I ride it in any weather or condition except snow and ice.

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post #3 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 5:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
Simple. The ride is more important than the bike. Bikes are replaceable, and most of us will have several (or several dozen) over our lifetimes but you only get one life.

I'll ride in pretty much anything except ice. Ice just sucks, even in a car. Dark, cold, wet, heat, crazy traffic, etc. can all be dealt with if you have the proper attitude, preparation, and skills/training. All depends on your priorities, I guess. Mine is to get in as many miles as I can, as there's just something about being on the bike and moving that isn't found anywhere else. All the rest are just details . . .

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post #4 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 6:31 pm
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I ride

I ride in most everything but ice/snow and will usually avoid heavy frost. Rain is rain, and with the LT it is relatively a non event. I avoid heavy wind like the storms that recently hit the area knocking out power to a million or so. (it would have been silly trying to dodge the falling trees and powerlines on an LT anyway. But I expect Joe and his GT would have had no problem)

I avoided the cold wet weather on my HD for several reasons,

1) the wind protection was not very good and the effect of the weather was over the top compared to the LT.
2) No abs and other poor handling issues and
3) It was a Btch to clean.

But with the LT it is all good and my riding season has extended to most all of the year. That being said, I have added several safety features that I did not even consider on my HD. Muth mirrors, Vectra lights, HID low beam, Motolights, HID running lights, running turn signals, BRAKE LED's and RS Mirrors.
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post #5 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 6:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.

I ask because I was invited to ride last weekend with some HOG riders who felt the need to ride because it was fairly warm 55F and dry. I agreed if we would not get on the salted roads. After much discussion, I rode solo to stay off the salted cindered surfaces.

Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
I agree. But when the sun comes out in the dead of winter in MN, where I used to live, I wanted to ride. Hence, a healthy coating of this sprayed to the undercarriage and other exposed parts of my bikes really works. I never had any major corrosion on my Cavalcade, and the LT looks good so far. In addition, I would try and hose off at a car wash before heading home.

What's really great now that I'm in NC, I'm still prepared for the mountain rides with the ACF application, but now I can usually hose off in the drive way when I get back to the low lands. One still has to tip toe around the switchbacks with sand and salt down, but still great ridin'.

John

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post #6 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 7:29 pm
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Snow

Salt

Ice

What in the heck are you talking about?

We have to ride in the rain a lot around the Houston area, so you either get good at it or....

Best advice though is ride your own ride.

Jerry
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post #7 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 7:51 pm
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I agree with the above but would like to add my opinion of rinding in the rain. I do live in the liquid sunshine capital after all. Riding in the wet stuff is almost a no brainer on the LT, Except in the city limits of major cities. The drivers are much more agressive and lots of oil at the intersections. Just leave a little more room and take your time. I have ridden over 700 miles in a day when it was pouring and loved every minute of it.

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post #8 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 8:06 pm
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Because I bought a bike to ride not to sit in the garage. I rode 10 month/yr when I lived in Chicago, have gone down on ice!!!!!. But will contnue to ride and clean the bike when I can, 60000 and the bike is clean but looks used.
Now living in FL and me and the bike wouild be better off if the cars would learn to drive in the rain, Ha. Lets go we will show you how its done.

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post #9 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 8:12 pm
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...anything but ice and salt.


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post #10 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 8:21 pm
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NO salt !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.

I ask because I was invited to ride last weekend with some HOG riders who felt the need to ride because it was fairly warm 55F and dry. I agreed if we would not get on the salted roads. After much discussion, I rode solo to stay off the salted cindered surfaces.

Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
Went for a 3 hour ride here on the other side of the state that weekend.
I will not be riding once the salt gets put down (has been down once already this year but good rain washed it away)

Do not like riding in the rain try to avoid it but have.

Snow/Ice not at all !! very nervous when the temp is 32 or below sometimes in the morning on the ride to work even when there has been no precip

One last thing you have probably have not seen much of until you get on the south east side of the state is the old Amish pie(Horse Crap). That stuff is slick like Ice and is a mess to clean off the cowling

Rich Kirker
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post #11 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 8:59 pm
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Some guys will ride on anything so I've heard
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post #12 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 9:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLBantz
My bike is in good, clean condition, but I bought it to ride it...a lot. That being said, I accept the fact that it is going to get some scratches. I wash it the best I can to get the salt off, but I am not a detailer, so it looks pretty good and shouldn't corrode too badly before I have to sell or trade it in. I ride it in any weather or condition except snow and ice.
Ditto..........I ride as much as I can.

I feel foolish buying a high priced bike and then just LOOKING at it in the garage.

I bought it to RIDE!

The salt washes off, then relube the shifter, then go again. No ice or snow though. That's just suicide to do on 2 wheels.

My .02 cents worth!


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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Love this LT bike and still waiting for my first speeding ticket. LOL
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post #13 of 44 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 9:57 pm
 
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No ice or snow (if it's sticking) for obvious reasons. But I'll ride anytime and anywhere I can otherwise. As far as salt goes...are you kidding me?! It washes off. Really...it does. I've done it.
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post #14 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 4:09 am
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I ride in ALL weathers EXCEPT fog. SO today I am cheesed off as it is foggy here.
Mind you, we havn't had a good snow storm in years now and the ice is pretty rare during the day.

Oh
And I dont use the K12 once the salt is down - I use my battered ST1100!

Thanks for the heads up on the ACF-50 - I am ordering now!
How long between recoats?

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post #15 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:05 am Thread Starter
 
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My 2˘ on salt. CORROSION!!! Yes it can be washed off, BUT adding water to salt turns on the oxidizing machine. Mechanical components can get rusty and sticky. Electrical components, especially those on a bike that relies on a strong 12 volt system can get oxidized and just plain fail!!! Salt dust travels deep in side the bike. Locating the culprit can be a daunting task.

Yep, I bought that expensive bike to ride, but I also want it to last. They are getting ridiculous to replace!!

I mostly agree with all that's been posted, BUT "Please pass the salt on down the table"....
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post #16 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:12 am
 
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Riding in the rain is easy, just be gentle with the throttle & brakes, stay away from painted surfaces, drain covers etc.

I did have a spill last week on black ice, about a grands worth of damage.

ACF50 - just apply using a cloth on all surfaces except the brake disks.
I usually re-apply after each wash

Ride safe all
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post #17 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:24 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
My 2˘ on salt. CORROSION!!! Yes it can be washed off, BUT adding water to salt turns on the oxidizing machine. Mechanical components can get rusty and sticky. Electrical components, especially those on a bike that relies on a strong 12 volt system can get oxidized and just plain fail!!! Salt dust travels deep in side the bike. Locating the culprit can be a daunting task.

Yep, I bought that expensive bike to ride, but I also want it to last. They are getting ridiculous to replace!!

I mostly agree with all that's been posted, BUT "Please pass the salt on down the table"....
With all due respect, I think you're a bit overboard on this one. And that is your prerogative. But do you drive your car in the winter? Year after year? And are they any cheaper to replace?
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post #18 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
My 2˘ on salt. CORROSION!!! Yes it can be washed off, BUT adding water to salt turns on the oxidizing machine. Mechanical components can get rusty and sticky. Electrical components, especially those on a bike that relies on a strong 12 volt system can get oxidized and just plain fail!!! Salt dust travels deep in side the bike. Locating the culprit can be a daunting task.

Yep, I bought that expensive bike to ride, but I also want it to last. They are getting ridiculous to replace!!

I mostly agree with all that's been posted, BUT "Please pass the salt on down the table"....
Well they don't use no salt on this one, I'll call you when I'm ready to run it again, you can go with me.
Rock
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post #19 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:57 am
 
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Originally Posted by UncleRock
Well they don't use no salt on this one, I'll call you when I'm ready to run it again, you can go with me.
No salt here either Rock. Maybe he'll ride with both of us!


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post #20 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 9:19 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.


Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.


Why do some drive 30k dollar cars in those conditions?

Tom

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(the only bmw's in the stable)
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post #21 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 9:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
My 2˘ on salt. CORROSION!!! Yes it can be washed off, BUT adding water to salt turns on the oxidizing machine. Mechanical components can get rusty and sticky. Electrical components, especially those on a bike that relies on a strong 12 volt system can get oxidized and just plain fail!!! Salt dust travels deep in side the bike. Locating the culprit can be a daunting task.

Yep, I bought that expensive bike to ride, but I also want it to last. They are getting ridiculous to replace!!

I mostly agree with all that's been posted, BUT "Please pass the salt on down the table"....

you don't live on the beach do you

I guess I'm just used to dealing with tons of salt air, heck I would have never rode if I were that worried about the bike lasting

Tom

Tom

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Last edited by tmgs; Dec 20th, 2006 at 9:27 am.
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post #22 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 9:59 am
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Here in Southern Ontario (Toronto), we are experiencing unseasonably warm weather...and no snow, or ice for that matter. Looks this year's riding season is going to be extended just a bit longer although the electrically heated gear displayed at the Motorcycle Show about 2 weeks ago would make the rides that much more enticing.

I avoid snow and ice at all costs. In Toronto, the roads department has been notorious for applying tons of salt every winter. Lately, they have switched to "brining" the road with a salt/water solution. I usually do not release the Beast from its winter hibernation until early April, until we have had a few good rainstorms to wash away the accumulated salt and sand.

Oh to have a Green Card and a place to live in SoCal or Florida where I could ride year round.

A wonderful holiday season to all and my thanks to all the contributors who have shared their experiences and their wisdom with a rider new to the KLT fraternity and who has just recently re-joined the ranks of the Two Wheelers after a layoff of about 15 years owing to the onset of nasty arthritis now controlled by an amazing new (experimental) drug.

PMF

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post #23 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 11:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
No salt here either Rock. Maybe he'll ride with both of us!


You show that to the guy before you sold him the bike?
Rock
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post #24 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 11:43 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
With all due respect, I think you're a bit overboard on this one. And that is your prerogative. But do you drive your car in the winter? Year after year? And are they any cheaper to replace?
I "HAVE" to drive my car! No choice unless I want to put on my spacesuit for 99% of my bike rides especially in winter and other sorts of foul weather. In America, (land of the zero effective public transportation) a cage is "the" mode for getting about.

BTW Joe, I'll expect to see you on that $20k+ GT in my neck of the woods for a
January thaw ride in the Mohican Valley. No excuses now!!! LOL

You guys are too much fun!! LOL "I love this board!!" hmmm..maybe a new Toby Keith song.....

Last edited by hoodoodrum; Dec 20th, 2006 at 11:51 am.
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post #25 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 11:52 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
I "HAVE" to drive my car! No choice unless I want to put on my spacesuit for 99% of my bike rides especially in winter and other sorts of foul weather. In America, (land of the zero effective public transportation) a cage is "the" mode for getting about.
Me and Rock both live north of you with even more foul weather. Besides, we're really talking about salt on the road and not ice or snow. And again, I respectively disagree that the salt isn't that big of an issue. I think it's safe to assume that we should agree to disagree on this subject.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
You show that to the guy before you sold him the bike?
Rock
I think Bill reviewed each and every post I ever created before buying my bike. I'm reminded of that fact every time we get together. It's kinda scary in a way. (Hey Bill! How ya doin?!)
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post #26 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
And again, I respectively disagree that the salt isn't that big of an issue.
Not if you trade in your bike on the next Greatest Bike Ever™ every year or two.

Ken
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post #27 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 12:24 pm
 
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"Not if you trade in your bike on the next Greatest Bike Ever™ every year or two. "

And your point?!?!


Can't take it with ya Ken. I should know. Jesus told me.
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post #28 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 12:28 pm
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For the last 3 years, our local council have bin tryaling special salt - basicaly salt mixed with molasses. The idea is that once it's bin applied, it lasts longer - it's sticky, so does not get sprayed off the road - main problem is - they use as much as conventional salt. It doesn't go away, so we end up with a (at least) 1" layer of slime on all the local roads - not conducive for bike riding. I don't ride the LT at all once they've started putting this stuff down (perhaps should go for a tax rebate).

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post #29 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 2:37 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
you don't live on the beach do you

I guess I'm just used to dealing with tons of salt air, heck I would have never rode if I were that worried about the bike lasting

Tom
I don't live on a beach but do have access to another bike I own in Jacksonville, FL. I made the mistake of riding A1A south on the coast one morning. Failed to immediately rinse the spokes/bike down afterward. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Turned chrome to dull.
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post #30 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 2:41 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Me and Rock both live north of you with even more foul weather. Besides, we're really talking about salt on the road and not ice or snow. And again, I respectively disagree that the salt isn't that big of an issue. I think it's safe to assume that we should agree to disagree on this subject.
O.K. Joe, if I have to, I guess Sure would love a photo of you riding that perty GT on 322 after a lake effect snow is cleared.
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post #31 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 2:49 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
O.K. Joe, if I have to, I guess Sure would love a photo of you riding that perty GT on 322 after a lake effect snow is cleared.
Deal! But might not be until January at this rate. And I'm not mad at anyone about it either.

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post #32 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 3:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
I don't live on a beach but do have access to another bike I own in Jacksonville, FL. I made the mistake of riding A1A south on the coast one morning. Failed to immediately rinse the spokes/bike down afterward. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Turned chrome to dull.

yup, I worked on A1A for years the SO work there as well, her car sat right across the street from the ocean, my bike had a row of building between it and the ocean

what a mess it was, I finally gave up and let the salt take whatever I could not paint or powder coat

Tom

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post #33 of 44 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 7:02 pm
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Here in WNC if yer gonna ride yer gonna get wet, cold, foggy, snow, some days with high temps and others you need heated gear just to start the LT.Last weekend I went out with the older brother, (HD man) started out at 31 plus wind and ended up 250 miles later at 70, aahhhhh fried turkey and beer!!!!!! So just ride it ! Gear is made for all the conditions and my SO rode 8hrs. in the rain to Barber for vintage race days without a compliant! So brothers get out and ride, it's therapy!!!!
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post #34 of 44 Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 5:39 am
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check these roads out ...

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post #35 of 44 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 8:25 am
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Talking Riding on non-ideal conditions

Part of the FUN of motorcycle riding is all of those different conditions. I am still surprized at the handling of the LT, even in 4" deep powdered sand on some back roads here in New Mexico. This goes along with the surprized look on the faces of the occupants of the 4X4 tin cans that pass. Mud, snow and ice is a different story, and only when necessary but mostly not even then. The machine generally seeks its natural resting position, mostly.
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post #36 of 44 Old Jan 1st, 2007, 4:55 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
Some guys will ride on anything so I've heard
Rock
Oh, we were talking about our motorcycles.......sorry, my mind wondered for a second........

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #37 of 44 Old Jan 1st, 2007, 10:56 am
 
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Salted wheels

I will try to attach a picture of the salt on my wheels after a ride Friday in the Adirondack Mts. of New York State. I just take it down to the heated firehouse to wash it off.
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post #38 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 12:24 am
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Exclamation Riding WEather~

Since I am in Arizona, I ridse pretty much all year long. I ride in most everything but ice/snow. Rain is rain & since I ride an LT, that is no big deal. I avoid heavy wind like the storms that recently hit the west coast, but I have also ridden Stealth III thru Hurricane Lili in Louisiana. She handled the weather beautifully! This is the best bike for me!

Dave
American by Birth,
Biker by Choice,
Patriot Forever!
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post #39 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 6:29 am
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I live in MN, I ride year round and ice is the only thing I avoid - unless we are racing.


+1 on the ACF-50, I turned a couple of my FL buddies onto it and they use it all the time now to ward of the sea salt spray.

Dave

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website has been hacked - down for now
Riding since '65 - 30+ bikes (lost count)
Current Stable:
'06 R12GS Adv, '98 Buell, '95 Ultra, '95 Fatboy, '71 Rickman, '53 Panhead
2009-2010 KxxxxLT or whenever BMW updates the platform


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post #40 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 7:01 am
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Way back when we thought the world was flat, long about Turkey day.
We would coat the entire underside of our bikes with PJ11 (or is it PJ111, CRS) it's a heavy chain lube.
Ugly yeah, but water and salt proof, washed it off at the truck stop in Ormand Beach just North of Daytona.
This was not my brainstorm, learned it from 1 legged Marvin, who has quite a long extencive HD based knowledge.
Rock
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post #41 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 7:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.

I ask because I was invited to ride last weekend with some HOG riders who felt the need to ride because it was fairly warm 55F and dry. I agreed if we would not get on the salted roads. After much discussion, I rode solo to stay off the salted cindered surfaces.

Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
I ride in everything EXCEPT ice and snow.
rain cold it doesn't matter, did hit some freezin Fog last week , The roads were fine BUT my face shield was freezing over.
I remember salt from Ohio(the rust belt )when I was a youngster growing up and I DO NOT miss it at all.

Tim In Portland


2000 Lt Icon
"Ike"


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post #42 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 11:02 am
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Talking 37 is my usual cut off.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
Admittingly so.... I try to stay on dry roads or the occasional roads with a small amount of tar strips, loose gravel etc. I will ride on wet roads if prepared to do so, but only for short periods....they make me nervous!!! I won't go near snow, ice, and any road with dusted salt.

I ask because I was invited to ride last weekend with some HOG riders who felt the need to ride because it was fairly warm 55F and dry. I agreed if we would not get on the salted roads. After much discussion, I rode solo to stay off the salted cindered surfaces.

Knowing what salt (corrosion hidden and seen) and stones (chips and dulling) do to cars, I don't get it why some ride $15k++++.... bikes under those conditions.
Due to wind chill on bridges freezing water that forms ice, I generally park it at 37 degrees F. Rode last week to work on December 29th and parked in the Tower in downtown Cleveland. Might be something to this global warming. Riding tomorrow to work too. Like cars, I try to upgrade every few years, so I never worry about a bit of oxidation. The man who bought my four year old LT was amazed at how perfect it was.

I don't fret about some salt getting on it. I do my best to wash it off. My 100 year old garage is a humidity pit anyhow. My pal Herbert Schnitzer has a much better garage than I do for fighting moisture.
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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #43 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 12:16 pm
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You rode in that Jim? We drove from Albany to Plattsburgh last week and that was enough fun in a rented car. I did end up passing a couple of slow snow plows, with all the scared folks tucked right in behind them like baby ducks. For some reason, my wife didn't want to ride the bike through the Adirondacks in December.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #44 of 44 Old Jan 2nd, 2007, 2:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
Due to wind chill on bridges freezing water that forms ice, I generally park it at 37 degrees F.....
Yup, I'm with you on this one.

Due to very high winds and chilli temps (0 degrees F. W/ wind chill factor) in the high desert areas, I'll park her at about 38 degrees depending on how fast the wind is blowing.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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