No helmet? Dead. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:35 am Thread Starter
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No helmet? Dead.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...112806.article

Time of the accident is interesting.

No mention of alcohol.

I may go slightly over the speed limit now and then, but I wear my safety gear and usually I am in my bed sleeping at this time of the morning.

Perhaps a helmet would not have helped this dead rider?

Very sad to see another rider die.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #2 of 22 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:40 am
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Uh, what does "speeding" have to do with hitting a stopped vehicle? Guess I'll never pass the LEO entrance ex-hams.

...............
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post #3 of 22 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:41 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
Time of the accident is interesting.
Why is the time interesting? The world runs 24 hours a day now. Many nights I don't get home until three or four in the morning.

Like you, sorry to see a rider die.
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post #4 of 22 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:53 am
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I wear all my gear all the time, even if I'm out to do errands down the street.
We were vendors at two HOG rallies this year and it simply amazes me of the lack of safety equipment these people wear.
When we are fitting them for raingear we always recommend that they get it big enough to fit over their riding gear. 90% of the time they reply with, "this is my gear "( wearing jeans and a T shirt). I'm also amazed at the ones who wear the "soup bowel helmets". Like that's going so anything in an accident! Incredible!
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post #5 of 22 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 3:44 pm
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Oh, oh, I can see where this thread will go, helmet, no helmet, gear, no gear,
freedom, rights, etc. "Brains or No Brains" you choose. Me I'll take all the gear I can get.
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post #6 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 7:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Uh, what does "speeding" have to do with hitting a stopped vehicle? Guess I'll never pass the LEO entrance ex-hams.
Speeding reduces perception/reaction/braking time. Speeding causes more severe injuries. Speeding makes everything (response) have to happen faster. At the time of accident, it was dark. Less visibility for a speeding rider. So speeding contributes, imo, to hitting a stopped car. And to the severity of injuries. Then the helmet debate opens up and I'll stay out of that one.

Rando
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post #7 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 9:17 am
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They don't mention that the car may have not had its lights on.
How many time do you see a cage pull out of a well lite parking lot, hitting the street without it lights on. Then drive a few blocks before they turn them on. This and speed = ACCIDENT.
Did this rider go into the car or over it. If into the car helmet may not have helped. over is another ?,?
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post #8 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 9:46 am
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Having investigated numerous motorcycle accidents I’d have to say that the folks that wear protective gear fare far better than those who don’t. But if you slam into a fixed object your likely to die just from blunt trauma….. regardless of what you’ve got on.
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post #9 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 10:32 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehall
....But if you slam into a fixed object your likely to die just from blunt trauma….. regardless of what you’ve got on.
Howdy Mike,

Perhaps you're correct, but I would disagree that it is an absolute fact (I know that you said "likely").

In this report, more accurately a precis of the police report; “The bike stopped and he didn’t. Lowry went flying [off the bike] and suffered major head injuries.” This would indicate that the riders fatal impact MAY have been something other than the vehicle. IF that is true, then a helmet MAY have been the deciding factor between life and death.

On a related note, I've been out here working in the greater Chicago area for the past year and have been absolutely stunned, no, make that shocked, by riders not wearing helmets.

From my informal and unscientific survey in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago the following is my estimation for helmet use:
BMW riders, by far the highest use, roughly 10%
Sport bike riders, second at <5%
Cruiser riders, last at <1%


.



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post #10 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 11:04 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PePa
Oh, oh, I can see where this thread will go, helmet, no helmet, gear, no gear,
freedom, rights, etc. "Brains or No Brains" you choose. Me I'll take all the gear I can get.
You have the right to remain stupid. Any idiotic choice you make can and possibly will count against you. You have the right to a proper burial, with the clergy of your faith in presence. If you can not afford a proper burial, one will be provided you at the state's expense.

-----------------------------------------

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post #11 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 12:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehall
Having investigated numerous motorcycle accidents I’d have to say that the folks that wear protective gear fare far better than those who don’t. But if you slam into a fixed object your likely to die just from blunt trauma….. regardless of what you’ve got on.
After my accident, going down to avoid the rear end of an SUV...that pulled across 3 lanes to do a U ! traffic to my right prevented me from going around SUV and she was in front of me very quickly ! I got lucky, went down to my left, bounced off the conrete median (me), bike slid just behind vehicle on its left side, After I picked myself up and found I had a seperated shoulder and knee injury, I sat down very quickly. Could have been much worse, had I hit the rear end of the SUV @ 35MPH...

Police officer did not write up accident, because I did not make contact with the SUV, deemed my fault at that time !

Jury said, I should have been able to have stopped safely and that IF I HAD hit the SUV, they would have deemed the SUV driver to be at fault ! So I lost that one ! BUT I am still alive

Jim Lawson 2016 R1200RT
Retired to NC !


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post #12 of 22 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 12:48 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkramer
You have the right to remain stupid. Any idiotic choice you make can and possibly will count against you. You have the right to a proper burial, with the clergy of your faith in presence. If you can not afford a proper burial, one will be provided you at the state's expense.
Unfortunately, I don't give myself the right to stand by while the aforementioned idiot is tossed out of the hospital emergency room because he can't afford to pay the bill (no insurance). Nor do I have the moral disposition to watch his children suffer by withholding welfare benefits from them because their father was stupid.

Other than that, I don't have an opinion.


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post #13 of 22 Old Dec 3rd, 2006, 4:50 pm
 
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Will your insurance payout?

As an active member of the U.S. military, insurance regs have gotten stricter.
Medical Costs:
If memory serves me right, the Regs say military moto-bike riders must wear a helmet, two layers of eye protection, gloves, long sleeves, long pants, and protective footwear; OR they will not pay for any medical care. The on-base MSF instructor did say, if a rider breaks a leg and wasn't wearing long sleeves, they don't have to pay. Because the lack of long sleeves had nothing to do with the leg injury, they may pay the medical bills. It's up to them.

Life Insurance
The SGLI life insurance will not pay the beneficiaries if the rider wasn't wearing a DOT helmet regardless if the helmet was a factor or not.
Non-DOT hemets are the same as NOT wearing a helmet.

If I die not wearing a helmet means my family just lost $450,000, not to mention future financial support and a father/husband.

I maybe many things....
.... But not evil enough to do that to my loved ones.

Heck, if I have to wear a fluffy pink helmet to make sure they pay, they're going to pay....
....even if it kills me.

Don't get me started on insurance companies.
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post #14 of 22 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 6:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneShot
As an active member of the U.S. military, insurance regs have gotten stricter.
Medical Costs:
If memory serves me right, the Regs say military moto-bike riders must wear a helmet, two layers of eye protection, gloves, long sleeves, long pants, and protective footwear; OR they will not pay for any medical care. The on-base MSF instructor did say, if a rider breaks a leg and wasn't wearing long sleeves, they don't have to pay. Because the lack of long sleeves had nothing to do with the leg injury, they may pay the medical bills. It's up to them.
This is true. I was an MFS instructor in the Navy for 10 years. They also don't have to pay your medical bills if you were in an accident in a cage with no seat belt on. Or any alcohol related injury. Or any number of other issues where the person hurt was (for a lack of a better term this early in the morning) being stupid. Way back in '96 when I got out...required gear also included an orange or yellow vest with at least 15 square inches of retro reflective material on front and back, as well as at least 2 square inches of said material on your helmet.

Quote:
Life Insurance
The SGLI life insurance will not pay the beneficiaries if the rider wasn't wearing a DOT helmet regardless if the helmet was a factor or not.
Non-DOT hemets are the same as NOT wearing a helmet.
Ok...I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know, but I do find it hard to believe that SGLI won't pay in those cases. SGLI pays out for suicide. I know that for a fact!

In any case...everyone should be aware of the risk in what ever we do. Either accept it or do something to reduce it to an acceptable level for you. To me, that's the textbook definition of being safe and practicing my personal freedom.

Dave
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post #15 of 22 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 7:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneShot
If I die not wearing a helmet means my family just lost $450,000, not to mention future financial support and a father/husband.

I maybe many things....
.... But not evil enough to do that to my loved ones.

Heck, if I have to wear a fluffy pink helmet to make sure they pay, they're going to pay....
....even if it kills me.

Don't get me started on insurance companies.
Yep that is the only reason I wear mine !!

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post #16 of 22 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 12:46 pm
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thump!....ouch!.....hmmm, still alive

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehall
Having investigated numerous motorcycle accidents I’d have to say that the folks that wear protective gear fare far better than those who don’t. But if you slam into a fixed object your likely to die just from blunt trauma….. regardless of what you’ve got on.
I agree...and I've investigated a few myself. I survived a 55mph collison when I was hit by the car I was passing. My impact was with the highway and I scrubbed off speed on the ground (full Aerostich gear/HJC helmet/etc.) Had I pulled out to pass and hit an oncoming car head on (or a parked car) at the same 55mph (or even a combined speed of), I dont think the helmet/gear would have saved me.

Just old, clutchless and clueless
Russ Locke
Lakehills, Texas
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post #17 of 22 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 3:48 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRuss
I agree...and I've investigated a few myself. I survived a 55mph collison when I was hit by the car I was passing. My impact was with the highway and I scrubbed off speed on the ground (full Aerostich gear/HJC helmet/etc.) Had I pulled out to pass and hit an oncoming car head on (or a parked car) at the same 55mph (or even a combined speed of), I dont think the helmet/gear would have saved me.
Russ,

Glad you made it thru your crash. How many miles on your FJ? Have any issues with it yet?

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #18 of 22 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 2:52 pm
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Stupid!
My wife says i'm srupid when I ride without all my gear on.
My mum says i'm stupid when I ride my motorbike.

Its all perspective.

Someone who rides without a helmet obviously knows that the risk of major injury/death has increased, just as when I get on my bike (with all my gear on) I know that the risk of injuring myself has increased compared to driving my car.

Graham
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post #19 of 22 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 5:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Uh, what does "speeding" have to do with hitting a stopped vehicle? Guess I'll never pass the LEO entrance ex-hams.
Well, in a word, everything! The faster you're riding, or driving for that matter, the less time you have to react. Say to a vehicle that suddenly stops in front of you, etc.

As far as the LEO entrance ex-hams, I just failed the spelling portion!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #20 of 22 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 5:59 am
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....SGLI pays out for suicide. I know that for a fact!....

WOW! I learn something new every time that I log on to this site. If I ever plan to off myself, now I know who to insure through!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #21 of 22 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 6:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzyMount
....Police officer did not write up accident, because I did not make contact with the SUV, deemed my fault at that time !

Jury said, I should have been able to have stopped safely and that IF I HAD hit the SUV, they would have deemed the SUV driver to be at fault ! So I lost that one ! BUT I am still alive
Well Jim, being the co-village idiot (sharing title with Joe), I'm confused also.

If no T/C report was taken because you DID NOT hit the SUV, then how was the collision deemed your fault? Was it the insurance company that deemed it your fault?

Explain the jury verdict: are they saying that you were tailgating because you could not stop in time and had to take evasive actions? If you had hit the SUV, how would it then have been the SUV driver's fault?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #22 of 22 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 6:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
Unfortunately, I don't give myself the right to stand by while the aforementioned idiot is tossed out of the hospital emergency room because he can't afford to pay the bill (no insurance). Nor do I have the moral disposition to watch his children suffer by withholding welfare benefits from them because their father was stupid.

Other than that, I don't have an opinion.
Yes, you're so right. Why does it always seem that somebody else gets punished for their stupidity?!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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