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post #1 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 10:55 am Thread Starter
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What percent of total cyclists have accident

I'm still recivering from the loss of a friend last week. I was wondering what percentage of all motorcyclists are involved in some type of accidet. A friend who is a MSF instructor told me he thinks the figure is probably 40-50% have some type of mishap, from a simple dropping at a stop sign to fatalities. What do you guys think?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 11:09 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
I'm still recivering from the loss of a friend last week. I was wondering what percentage of all motorcyclists are involved in some type of accidet. A friend who is a MSF instructor told me he thinks the figure is probably 40-50% have some type of mishap, from a simple dropping at a stop sign to fatalities. What do you guys think?

Thanks.
You consider drops its about 100%

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post #3 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 11:20 am
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You consider drops its about 100%
I can't think of any of my riding buddies who haven't at least had at a tipover during the learn to ride phase. Fortunately, most have avoided the need for hospitalization. Many, like myself, have had a painful week or two at home with serious road rash, broken collar bones, and such.
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post #4 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 11:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
I'm still recivering from the loss of a friend last week. I was wondering what percentage of all motorcyclists are involved in some type of accidet. A friend who is a MSF instructor told me he thinks the figure is probably 40-50% have some type of mishap, from a simple dropping at a stop sign to fatalities. What do you guys think?

Thanks.
Billy try this link http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm...&pagename=News
Also goggle "motorcycle crashes"

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post #5 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 11:28 am
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If you ride long enough, you WILL have some mishap. Might be minor, might be major, might be your own fault or somebody else's. Sooner or later it will come knocking on your door. My own experience from 1974 till present:

On my RD50 (1974-1977) - fell down on a dirt road while goofing off, hanging over the handle bars. Hit a pavement while paying attention to what my friend ahead of me was doing. In both cases I got a little road rash on my hands, but broke my nose and never realised it till much later.

Suzuki 750 (1978-1982) - applied the front brakes with too much force on a slippery road, dumped the bike with minor injuries and damage.

Suzuki 1100 (1982-1984) - wheelied the mother while under the influence of a little beer and a lot of bravado, and flipped it over. Poked a hole in my lower leg from the gear lever. Minor damage to handbars and exhaust.

Honda 750F (1985-1987) - no accident whatsoever.

Kawasaki ZX10 (1987-1989) - got hit from behind by a drunk friend (I was sober) at a bachelor party. Did not get hurt but damage to bike was over $1200.

Honda 1000 Hurricanes (1989-1995) - no damage or accidents whatsoever.

Kawasaki ZX11 (1997-present) - had to perform a controlled crash trying to avoid an illegal alien running a stop sign in front of me with a pickup truck (had no license or insurance, tried to flee the scene, no ticket written). Had major road rash on my arms, but no broken bones. Damage to bike about $4500.

BMW 1200 LT (2006-?) - no mishaps yet and I plan on it staying that way.

Biggest lesson learned? Avoid alcohol in any shape or form whatsoever when around motorcycles, even if you are not the one doing the drinking.

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Past rides:
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89 Honda Hurricane (sold)
88 Honda Hurricane (traded on an SUV)
86 Kawasaki 1000R (stolen but recovered)
84 Honda 750F (traded on 1000R)
81 Suzuki GSX1100 (sold)
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74 Yamaha RD50 (sold)
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post #6 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 11:44 am
 
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Two groups of motorcyclists...
  1. The ones that have been down.
  2. The ones that are going to go down.
So what percentage? 100% And yes, I believe this with all of my heart.
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post #7 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 1:13 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagar
If you ride long enough, you WILL have some mishap........
Biggest lesson learned? Avoid alcohol in any shape or form whatsoever when around motorcycles, even if you are not the one doing the drinking.
That statement is so very true.
It kills me when riders tell me "On the bike, even after a few beers, I feel no negative effect because the wind in my face keeps me alert! In fact I feel I can ride better! "

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post #8 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 2:14 pm
 
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Percentage wise,, there are no more bike accidents than there are car accidents.....And no dropping your bike is not an accident ...Pete
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post #9 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 2:22 pm
 
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Back in 2001, when I purchased my Harley, I did some research on motorcycles fatalities in Florida. I was shocked to learn that we loose around 120 people a year on both motorcycles and bicycles. I am also an avid fitness cyclist so started paying more attention to crashes and injuries from fitness cycling. This is my take on it...I feel safer on my K1200GT than on my TREK. First of all, I don't get harassed on the Beemer. I have more breaking power and more visibility. I am more visible and more protected (amour). You would not believe how badly some of my cycling buddies have hurt them selves crashing at 25 mph. Approx. 120 bicyclists die every year in Florida, and I'll bet you a dinner not one of them was speeding!
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post #10 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 3:32 pm
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100% if

you keep riding. Not talking about tip-overs, I mean low siders, high siders, collisions with moving and non-moving objects, and just plain running off the road.

Someone who rides without an accident for a day, week, month, or even lucky enough to go a few years without a misshap and never rides again won't have an accident. Keep on riding though.... sooner or later it will happen.

However, I subscribe to the addage that there are two kinds of riders, those that have been down, and those that will go down.

Plan on it. If you think you can ride and be one of the "lucky ones" or you are cautious and skillful enough to avoid a misshap, I submit to you that you are wrong minded. Odds are you will go down, and you are better off planning on it. Prepare for it, ride like it is going to happen, and hope you can walk away from it.
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post #11 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 4:11 pm Thread Starter
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This article has the best statistics I've ever seen. It really breaks it down re time of day, involvement of alcohol, age, etc.


http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/i...ce/motorcycle/
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post #12 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 4:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Odds are you will go down, and you are better off planning on it. Prepare for it, ride like it is going to happen, and hope you can walk away from it.
I limped away from my last one.



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post #13 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 4:19 pm
 
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I limped away from my last one.
Wimp! I rode away from mine! (...in the back, with the lights flashing and the sirens a'blaring! )
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post #14 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 4:25 pm
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Interesting statistic

Some one told me (might have even been State Trooper IIRC) that here in Vermont there are twice as many motorcycles registered on the road as there are driver's licenses with the motorcycle operator provision.

A few of us have more than one registered bike, even so, I'll bet that leaves many riders who have never even taken the motorcyle driver's test.

The state now requires some type of motorcycle training course to get the motorcycle operator's endorsement.

I wonder how many accidents could be prevented by cross referencing the databases and chasing down those folks who have a registered motorcycle but don't have motorcycle endorsement and just make them take the course.

But that's really Big Brother stuff isn't it?
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post #15 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 5:13 pm Thread Starter
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This is the most thorough article detailing statistics such as alcohol use, age, time of day, etc.
http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/i...ce/motorcycle/
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post #16 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 6:50 pm
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I don't have any stats to verify my position on motorcycle accident frequency but I do have about 25 years of riding experience with two minor single cycle and rider accidents to show for it. One was an intentional put down on a turn that I was too fast into. The other was an intentional off roader on an "S" turn complete with what we call loose road snakes in this neck of the woods. (rubberized tar in cracks in the pavement that came out of the cracks and were laying on the road surface.)

When I first decided to get back into motorcycling 25 years ago the first thing I did was to enroll in and complete a 2 week motorcycle safety course. One of the things I was taught in that course was to review, in my head, EVERY accident and near miss I would be involved in in the years ahead. (and there have been many near misses) and try to figure out what I could have done differently to avoid same. The instructor advised "you could be in the right but you could also be DEAD in the right."

I have followed this advice ever since. As they say 'knock on wood', I don't believe that helps but it seems to be the thing to say for some reason. Except for the two minors above it is so far so good.

I am a firm believer that I am the only person I can control and all the stats and other riders/drivers on the road and what they do and say won't help me as much as I am going to when I am in a tight situation.

NOTE: to Messenger 13, in this neck of the woods you ride a motorcycle too!
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post #17 of 38 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 8:04 pm
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(Quote)That statement is so very true.
It kills me when riders tell me "On the bike, even after a few beers, I feel no negative effect because the wind in my face keeps me alert! In fact I feel I can ride better! "
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post #18 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 12:34 am
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Originally Posted by CharlieVT
The state now requires some type of motorcycle training course to get the motorcycle operator's endorsement.
Is that for all riders? Or is it differentiated by age.

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post #19 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 2:31 am
 
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I just hate the fatalistic approach to riding a motorcycle. I had 4-5 drops when I was in my teens and twenties riding lighter bikes, but think I have learned from my mistakes. Just love the advice you get from the guys who have totaled two or three bikes. Riding a bike is dangerous, and I may have an accident, but will take my advice from those who haven't had one. Note everybody who has say everybody will.
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post #20 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 5:06 am
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State licensing requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Is that for all riders? Or is it differentiated by age.
The same for all riders. It is probably not all that difficult, The process does require a written test and at a later date a riding proficiency test. There is a provision for a "learner's permit". No requirement for MSF course, other states undoubtly have greater requirements.

This thread just got me wondering if licensing requirements and law enforcement those requirements would decrease the rising accident rate.
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post #21 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 5:41 am
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Fatalism vs realism, and applied psychology

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Originally Posted by Ghost55
I just hate the fatalistic approach to riding a motorcycle. I had 4-5 drops when I was in my teens and twenties riding lighter bikes, but think I have learned from my mistakes. Just love the advice you get from the guys who have totaled two or three bikes. Riding a bike is dangerous, and I may have an accident, but will take my advice from those who haven't had one. Note everybody who has say everybody will.
I'll give full credit to anyone who has ridden for decades and never had an accident. How many close calls has such a rider had, that would have been accidents if only circumstances beyond their control were just a little different?

It does stand to reason that those riders who have had accidents will be more inclined to subscribe to the theory that sooner or later it will happen to everyone, and those who have never had an accident, attribute it to carefulness and skill, and think they can continue to avoid an accident.

Well, of course it is possible to ride for years accident free. I don't consider my attitude that I will have another accident "fatalistic". If I did, I wouldn't ride. I do consider it "realistic" to consider the prospects of an accident, it is a frame of mind that will probably keep me safer.

If you always ride slow, in fair weather, on good roads, in low traffic conditions, you certainly reduce the risks. If you ride in a sporty, spirited manner your odds get worse, regardless of experience level.

Why wear protective riding gear? Isn't it because we anticipate needing it? Those who subscribe to the adage that there are two types of riders, whose who have gone down, and those that will, aren't all folks who have totaled two or three bikes. I've never done more than $100 parts damage to a bike and my worst injury was a contused foot. I'm into my 4th decade of riding and I don't know how many 100,000 miles.

Folks here who say it'll happen to you aren't reckless squids who think if it happened to me, its gotta happen to you, rather, I suspect they are all well wishers who hope it doesn't, but think expecting and preparing for it isn't fatalistic, but realistic and a good mental attitude.

As far as taking advice from those who have had accidents and those who have not.... there is something to learn from both. Clearly an experienced rider who has never had an accident probably has some good advice. But I love the rider who shares the details of their accident, gives an objective analysis of conditions (road condtions, weather, and their own health and frame of mind). You can learn a lot from other's mistakes. I'll listen to the experienced riders who have crashed and will talk about it; there is more to learn from them than from someone who has never had an accident IMO. I don't mean to suggest that those who have accidents are better riders, hey they had accidents! But there is experience to learn from there. And from experience comes wisdom (sometimes )

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post #22 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 6:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernvernvern
(Quote)That statement is so very true.
It kills me when riders tell me "On the bike, even after a few beers, I feel no negative effect because the wind in my face keeps me alert! In fact I feel I can ride better! "
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The first thing a drinker looses is "JUDGEMENT"!!

My .02 !!!!!!!
But the odd thing is these folks are usually sober when they say these types of ridiculous remarks! Just had several tell us this in the Keys bike fest this year.

BTW I feel just having this discussion is educational in itself and reduces incidents as it make us all more AWARE of the dangers.
As a diver you learned what to do in an emergency and how to stay out of it in the first place.

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post #23 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 6:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvaprez
Back in 2001, when I purchased my Harley, I did some research on motorcycles fatalities in Florida. I was shocked to learn that we loose around 120 people a year on both motorcycles and bicycles. I am also an avid fitness cyclist so started paying more attention to crashes and injuries from fitness cycling. This is my take on it...I feel safer on my K1200GT than on my TREK. First of all, I don't get harassed on the Beemer. I have more breaking power and more visibility. I am more visible and more protected (amour). You would not believe how badly some of my cycling buddies have hurt them selves crashing at 25 mph. Approx. 120 bicyclists die every year in Florida, and I'll bet you a dinner not one of them was speeding!
I like bicycles a lot too. Previous to my crash in May, I had been hurt much worse on my mounatin bike. Not a big road bicyclist. Bicyclists have nowhere near the protection a well-attired motorcyclist has. From the helmets to the panty hose riding clothing. Spandex has NO protective attributes. I does make my butt look nice however....

I know two guys that have been pretty seriously injured on their bicycles.

BE careful out there, no matter what you ride.

Rando
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post #24 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 7:53 am
 
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Cycling is RISK MANAGEMENT!!
Keeping your mind sharp and using your head will give you the advantage. Nothing can stop a godly act, but having the ability to minimize potential damage is key.

Case in point: 3 Sunday's ago, I heard emergency vehicles swarming to my neighborhood. There was a motorcyclist down in the ditch right in front of the adult league soccer field. Skid marks from "his lane" across and ending at the ditch. Bike was totaled, rider (dressed in protective gear) had both femurs busted. Off he goes in the ambulance.

This week I get the neighborhood newsletter. The rider happened to be a neighbor just down the road. Claimed he was trying to avoid a van and crashed. Hmmmm!

WRONG... two off duty state troopers playing soccer witnessed the bike hitting speeds from a stop sign at +/- 100mph and rapidly slowed to regain control. He lost it and ended up perpendicular to a telephone pole. The biker told the (off duty) troopers he was on his way home from BW3's where he was watching the football game. DRINKING AND STUPID RIDING = a young father of two who will have problems walking the rest of his life.
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post #25 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 9:40 am
 
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Originally Posted by rando
I like bicycles a lot too. Previous to my crash in May, .

Rando
Rando, how bad was the one in May?
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post #26 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 9:53 am
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My crash was motorcycle, not bicycle. Basically I was going up a curvy mountain road (US hwy 52, Facny Gap, VA) when some Canadian tourists did a Uturn from the shoulder in front of me, blocking both of my lanes. I was traveling 55 mph when it started. Squeezed the brakes pretty hard and slowed enough that when I hit, it only threw me over their hood. I didn't slide after I hit. My injuries happened on impact, a broken left wrist and I hit the tank (Vstrom)with my crotch. They fixed my wrist, but since nothing was broken in my pelvis and all my guts were still glued in place, they didn't do anything for my hips. Sent me home from hosp, although I could not walk. Couldn't lift my left leg without excruciating pain. The hip still hurts more than my wrist.

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post #27 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 10:19 am
 
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Bummer! It appears the incident hasn't scared you away from bikes. I had several wipe outs on dirt bikes as a teen but lucky so far as an adult rider. It is very helpful to share these stories with your fellow bikers. Motorcycling has a lot in common with private aviation. Learning never stops because it's almost always human error and not equipment failure. In this case, Canadian tourists. We call 'em Snowbirds down here in FL.
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post #28 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 10:26 am
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I'm an mSF coach, so motorcycles help pay the bills. Yes, I wanted to get back on. I did. Riding has changed for me though. Not as much fun as it used to be, knowing the kind of injuries one can feel. IF I walk away from another crash like that, I doubt I'll get back on. The 70-something tourists, simply "did not see" the motorcycle. It's hard to feel forgiveness for that. It was stupid to do a u-turn between two blind curves on a road with a 55 mph speed limit. Not to mention probably illegal. They did get the ticket and insurance dealings have been a nightmare and will go on for a while longer.

And yes, you can never stop learning, nor be too vigilant about the other motorists out there, as well as yourself.

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post #29 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 10:29 am
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25 years riding
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No crashes over 5-10mph and only 3 of them
Sure, it's not ALL down to you, car drivers can be a hazard that is unavoidable - but not nearly as often as stated. A rear ender is one of the only things you cant mitigate for, and high intensity brake light at eye level helps massivly for even that one.

There are 3 main ways to ride;
  • Like you drive a car - you will get injured very soon this way
  • Like you are invisible - safer
  • Like they are all out to get you - the way I ride - I call it paranoid riding, and it has done me good so far!

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post #30 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 11:28 am
 
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[*]Like they are all out to get you - the way I ride - I call it paranoid riding, and it has done me good so far![/list]
Exactly the way I feel with few exceptions such as getting on the throttle and leaning the LT in curves from time to time.
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post #31 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 1:05 pm
 
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Man!! the story's we tell
Now either there are a few liars on here ,,,or everyone wears horn rimmed glasses with a pocket protector in their shirt pocket!!!

No crashes yet,, started riding in '64, then started drinking and driving in '65...

Man I'd love to back in the day!! Immortal as far as I was concerned...
So many nights leaving before closing with twenty dweebs and bros at the door, pulling across the divided four lane, Grabbing a handful of throttle and that big red square dice shift knob and standing that Harley up on the back tire till all I could see was stars!!, Setting it down a 100 or so feet down the road and smiling all the way home....

Or right at sun set leaving the 4 lane at the edge of town and running the white line on the two lane all the way to the beach turn off at a hundred mph... Alls I can say is that it is a spiritual thing,, with cars on both sides of you at the same time!! Passing one at twice their speed but passing the the other at the same time at 3 times his speed!! Those are memories to reflect on when your old and grey.....

But like most here I Wear ATGATT by choice now and feel comfortable with it... And I have no accidents,,( Crazy stuff on dirt bikes )...Now do I want to die?? NO, not today or tomorrow, but I don't care if I do, I will show up at Valhalla with my limp, broken leg and hands and teeth from bar fights with a great big smile on my face,,, asking " OK, WHATS NEXT!! See ya on the road or in the clouds.......Pete
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post #32 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 1:20 pm
 
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Wink How many accidents?

I agree that sooner or later ,if you ride regularly, that you will have some sort of mishap. I've been down 3 times in 45 years which, I think, is an incredible
record.At 15 yrs.old I hit a pothole on a 50cc honda and was thrown 67 ft down the pavement. Scrapes and bruises and a front wheel that looked like a Ruffles potato chip. At 21yrs old an elderly couple pulled out in front of me and I did a "lowside" slide into the drivers door. The bike hit and righted itself and slung me on top of the car. The dent in the door matched the one in the roof.No broken bones( I was young then and in good shape). Then I went about 35 years without a crash. I tipped it over a few times but no crashes until I bought the LT in 2004. Two weeks after I bought the bike a garbage truck had dumped restaurant oil on a curve only a mile from my home. I hit the grease and went down on the right side of the bike scraping down the pavement about 30 feet.I stayed on the bike and it looked like I didn't have a scratch. A week later I had a severe pain in the center of my chest and collarbone area. A sharp MRI doctor diagnosed it as a " lateral whiplash". It took about a year to heal. Anyway, in each case I was wearing a helmet,gloves, and boots. I believe in 2 out of the 3 crashes that had I not been wearing a helmet that I would have been killed! ( my helmet was scraped to the liner). No doubt that the Big Guy Upstairs was looking out for me but he does exspect us to do our part. WEAR THE GEAR!!! Ron Ray
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post #33 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 2:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost55
I just hate the fatalistic approach to riding a motorcycle. I had 4-5 drops when I was in my teens and twenties riding lighter bikes, but think I have learned from my mistakes. Just love the advice you get from the guys who have totaled two or three bikes. Riding a bike is dangerous, and I may have an accident, but will take my advice from those who haven't had one. Note everybody who has say everybody will.
I tend to agree and I don't subscribe to the "There are two kinds of riders - those that have had an accident and those that will..." fatalistic attitude. It imposes fear into the ride.

I think you have to approach the ride knowing the risks, minimizing the risks, and assume that you will have a safe ride everytime you go out. Having the "is this the day I get into an accident" thought in the back of your mind would drive me crazy - and push me to eventually sell the bike.

FWIW - I've been riding for 13 years and average 20k+ miles a year (I know, low numbers compared to some people around here - some of us have to work ) with not ONE accident... and I plan on continuing for the next 13 or more years accident free.

Gino
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'02 Silver
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post #34 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 3:03 pm
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Wink How did that old saying go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson


Man!! the story's we tell
Now either there are a few liars on here ,,,or everyone wears horn rimmed glasses with a pocket protector in their shirt pocket!!!

No crashes yet,, started riding in '64, then started drinking and driving in '65...

Man I'd love to back in the day!! Immortal as far as I was concerned...
So many nights leaving before closing with twenty dweebs and bros at the door, pulling across the divided four lane, Grabbing a handful of throttle and that big red square dice shift knob and standing that Harley up on the back tire till all I could see was stars!!, Setting it down a 100 or so feet down the road and smiling all the way home....

Or right at sun set leaving the 4 lane at the edge of town and running the white line on the two lane all the way to the beach turn off at a hundred mph... Alls I can say is that it is a spiritual thing,, with cars on both sides of you at the same time!! Passing one at twice their speed but passing the the other at the same time at 3 times his speed!! Those are memories to reflect on when your old and grey.....

But like most here I Wear ATGATT by choice now and feel comfortable with it... And I have no accidents,,( Crazy stuff on dirt bikes )...Now do I want to die?? NO, not today or tomorrow, but I don't care if I do, I will show up at Valhalla with my limp, broken leg and hands and teeth from bar fights with a great big smile on my face,,, asking " OK, WHATS NEXT!! See ya on the road or in the clouds.......Pete
Oh yeah, 'God protects fools and imbeciles---' or something to that effect.
sounds like you and I have stretched His mercies at times in the past, and perhaps are now wiser for the wear---

ed early
Life is a Blind Curve , Just Ride It, Low and Inside
'00' Canyon Red
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post #35 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 5:59 pm
 
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Yeah Ed your right!!

As said brfore, I learned not to drive faster than my angel can fly!!!
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post #36 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 6:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost55
I just hate the fatalistic approach to riding a motorcycle. I had 4-5 drops when I was in my teens and twenties riding lighter bikes, but think I have learned from my mistakes. Just love the advice you get from the guys who have totaled two or three bikes. Riding a bike is dangerous, and I may have an accident, but will take my advice from those who haven't had one. Note everybody who has say everybody will.
Gary, I don't think that the saying "There are only two types of motorcyclists: Those that have crashed; and those that will." is always meant to be taken literally. But more of a warning that it (crashing) can happen to you and to not become complacent and think it can't happen. Ride well...

Bruce Hodges
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post #37 of 38 Old Nov 15th, 2006, 8:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by early1
Oh yeah, 'God protects fools and imbeciles---' or something to that effect.
sounds like you and I have stretched His mercies at times in the past, and perhaps are now wiser for the wear---
Not quite, Ed. It goes, "God protects drunks and Irishmen". Being of Irish extraction, I find it redundant, but whatever.

If you wanna be safe, don't get out of bed. Even that's not guaranteed. Just remember, we don't get out of this life alive. I'm going for it.



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post #38 of 38 Old Nov 16th, 2006, 11:18 am
 
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I have had only one accident in 10 years of riding - I hit the wifes car parked on the driveway. She wasn't too impressed as she was on the back of the bike
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