Difference after crash? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 9:32 am Thread Starter
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Difference after crash?

Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding? I had my crash on May 31. Was riding a Vstrom and loved it, except for some ergo issues. I loved the feel and handling of that bike and was very comfortable on it and with it. I could lean it til passenger pegs scraped confidently. Was not a speed demon or anything though. I liked riding in a spirited manner. Could do any MSF BRC exercises on the strom.

After crash, wanted to ride again, looked forward to it, but felt like I was ready to slow down some, enjoy the ride a little more, etc. So a big tourer was what I thought I wanted. So here I am with an LT which is awesome on the slab and on sweepers.

But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles. I can't even get close to doing the MSF U turn box in the 20' box; not reall good with the 24'. BUT, I haven't really come close to dumping it in a parking lot. I use the techniques and such and can even U turn in my street (3 cars+ wide) feet up. The offset weaves we use in class? Nope. I can get a few, but not all.

I haven't been in a slow speed situation that really caused concern. Just not comfortable. At road speeds, in the twisties, not really comfortable leaning this thing over, although I read where you guys do it all the time. I feel like a newbie again.

I'm wondering how much is me and the bike getting familiar, or how much is me having a crash? Riding is not as much fun as it used to be. There is much more concern on may part about crashing again. I am way more nervous than I have been in years. I have already said that if I survive another crash like the last one, I will not get back on.

I was talking and thinking this weekend that I'm almost ready to trade the LT for a fully loaded Vstrom. But then, what if I get the Vstrom and find that I'm still not comfortable?

It's all me, I know, and my mind. I know when I went thru the twisties this weekend I was riding at a snails pace, but really did not feel comfortable going faster. I know the bike has more there. I was watching in the mirrors as slugbug was coming thru and saw that he was barely leaning.

I'm going to give the LT and my riding some more time, but I also keep thinking there are 4 wheeled vehicles out there that are very sporting (miata, maybe?) that give me the open air, sporting experience (rush)that the motorcycle does. And the motorcycle is mroe than riding to me. I like fiddling with it, adding little farkles here and there, maintenance, improvements, etc. A sports car could do the same in that regard too.

In talking to another coach who crashed similarly (but worse) last year, he is having the same kind of issues.

Thanks for "listening" guys - just trying to work out some "stuff"....
rando
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post #2 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:03 am
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Just give it time

Although I haven't experienced a crash on the motorcycle (he said, keeping fingers crossed) I have crashed - hard - while racing karts. After I healed and was medically cleared to race again, and with a new, updated chassis under me, I found myself to be a few seconds slower on my lap times than I had been pre-crash. Although I desperately looked for excuses in the set up or powerplant, I knew inside that it was me not being willing to push for that last tenth of speed. It lasted about 2 races, and then I was back to full speed again.
Give it time and just try to relax and enjoy the ride, no matter what speed you're travelling. I think you'll find that as your confidence comes back, your speed may creep up again. If it doesn't, hey, that's fine too, as long as you enjoy yourself and your bike. Just don't push beyond your comfort zone too soon, just for the sake of going as fast as you used to.
Oh, it will take some time (and quite a few miles) to get fully comfy with the LT. I don't think anyone ever gets too cocky with them at low speed. I rode mine for over 2 months before I'd let Telle (the missus) hop on the back seat.
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post #3 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:07 am
 
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It took me 8-10 months after my crash before I really felt like getting sporty again, give it time.
You're also on a dramatically different bike. Give that time too.
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post #4 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:14 am Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I miss my strom and how it felt so good to me. Don;t get me wrong the LT feels good and I feel better physically after riding it than I did on the Strom. The strom is luxury, just as the name would imply.

I know all this is between my ears. I am an MSF coach and am not smooth even on small class bikes either. Comes from being off bike for a couple months.

It will get better - I still like riding, just not limited sight line riding. And not comfortable with the LT's abilities yet.

More riding would seem to be in order.....

Rando
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post #5 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:17 am
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It takes a long time to "master" the LT...

I took the ERC after owning the bike about 6 months and the "box" was still very difficult... Now over a year later I am just getting comfortable with those kinds of manuvers...Making any kind of a U turn on the LT is not something that is easy for anyone...She's a big top heavy beast and she loves the speed but is a little more "snippy" at low speeds... It'll just take a lot of time and a lot of practice...

As the MSF instructer told me while we were picking my bike up,

If you go outside the lines in the box you just loose a few points.. If you drop the bike in the box (during the final test ) you fail the course....

Now in my own defense the winds were blowing about 40 mph and gusting even more that day and I really believe it was the wind that got me... But
That bike is just a whole big handfull at those speeds... Now I know that doing manuvers like that you've got to keep your speed up and if you start to get in trouble THROTTLE will get you out... When she starts to drop just goose her and she'll pop right back up.. That takes a while to get used to...
In tight situations you really have to treat it more like a dirt bike than a cruiser..Lay it over and pop the gas to her and she'll turn just like a big dirt bike..

Anyone can ride a Vstrom.....

It takes a real rider to handle an LT...

Keep at it and you'll be fine...

John

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post #6 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:22 am
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Well, I have been one that has come back after three very bad crashes, Totaled two LTs. It certainly did take some time to get comfortable again after each one. I did get comfortable though, and probably rode just as hard as always after a few thousand miles. That did not take long in time, as I was riding average 30,000 miles/year.

Guess what. I STILL want another bike! I know I would start out a little tentative again, especially since it has been two years now since I had one. I did take a demo ride on a new K1200GT a few weeks ago, could see some real enjoyment promised there.

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post #7 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:48 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
It takes a long time to "master" the LT...

I took the ERC after owning the bike about 6 months and the "box" was still very difficult... Now over a year later I am just getting comfortable with those kinds of manuvers...Making any kind of a U turn on the LT is not something that is easy for anyone...She's a big top heavy beast and she loves the speed but is a little more "snippy" at low speeds... It'll just take a lot of time and a lot of practice...

As the MSF instructer told me while we were picking my bike up,

If you go outside the lines in the box you just loose a few points.. If you drop the bike in the box (during the final test ) you fail the course....



Anyone can ride a Vstrom.....


John
Yeah, my co coach this weekend said same about riding a strom. And it's true, the strom is easy to ride.

It's kinda funny, I know all the "tricks" and coaching that goes with the box, yet still can't make the mind and body follow....

I'll get there. Thanks for the words all.

DS: get your avatar back....I was going to add mine, but apparently is lost with the last computer I had.

Rando
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post #8 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 10:56 am
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I live just a couple of blocks away from a msf range course and I ride it often and the box is still elusive have done it a couple of times, not done it more. The LT is a beast in the box.

As far as the bike accident is concerned it will take some time to get over it mentaly, just ride it out son just ride it out.

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post #9 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 11:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding? I had my crash on May 31.......Could do any MSF BRC exercises on the strom......

But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles. I can't even get close to doing the MSF U turn box in the 20' box; not reall good with the 24'. BUT, I haven't really come close to dumping it in a parking lot. I use the techniques and such and can even U turn in my street (3 cars+ wide) feet up. The offset weaves we use in class? Nope. I can get a few, but not all.

In talking to another coach who crashed similarly (but worse) last year, he is having the same kind of issues.

Thanks for "listening" guys - just trying to work out some "stuff"....
rando
My 2 cents...

*purchase a riding video like "Ride Like a Pro" from motor officer Jerry Palladino, 866-868-7433, cost me about $30.00 and was a GREAT confidence booster while I watched women whip the Gold Wings around like dirt bikes
*Remove any lower j-pegs if you have them especially the XL type while getting comfortable and practicing
*Get some 1" high pressure red rubber hose and cut to cover the drop bars while becoming increasingly comfortable and practicing (see pics). This will reduce your fear of damage in a slow speed lay-down while practicing
*Like most instructions indicate, rear brake, reacquaint yourself with the "friction zone" feathering the (dry) clutch, and double your idle RPM. Practice the "go as slow as possible race". Note: because of the dry clutch, try to rely on increased rear brake to maintain "centripetal force" (Not centrifugal)
*hang in there and don't quit!!! Using the above I've accomplishedfull lock turns.

Keep the rubberside down!!
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post #10 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 12:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding?
My SO, Kathy had a crash on her F650 last July and is still going to PT twice a week for her right hand. She was hesitant at first to get on the back of our LT but now is totally comfortable after I babied her a bit. Not sure if she'll ride her own bike again yet, but I won't push her. She'll make that decision herself when/if she is ready. She is still at a beginner level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles. I can't even get close to doing the MSF U turn box in the 20' box; not reall good with the 24'. BUT, I haven't really come close to dumping it in a parking lot. I use the techniques and such and can even U turn in my street (3 cars+ wide) feet up. The offset weaves we use in class? Nope. I can get a few, but not all.
rando
It took me almost a year before being comfortable at low speed on the LT with a passenger and load. However once the LT is rolling I had no issues. Because it is a heavy bike you need to be assertive when you counter steer or stop the bike, unlike your lighter Strom. So just give yourself the time to be confident and ride your ride. Don't push yourself, there is no mileage in it. Be safe and the rest will come back to you in due time!

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post #11 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 12:31 pm
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Thumbs up What a Great Idea!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
*Get some 1" high pressure red rubber hose and cut to cover the drop bars while becoming increasingly comfortable and practicing (see pics). This will reduce your fear of damage in a slow speed lay-down while practicing ...
I've got the "Ride Like a Pro" videos and ran aground trying to complete the 24' circle exercise. Would have been great to have those hoses attached. Also had the xl Jpegs on as well so all your tips would have been handy!! Thanks for posting this!

Dan
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Last edited by dglenn1; Oct 9th, 2006 at 2:42 pm. Reason: Dimension problem 24' not 24" Now that is tight!
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post #12 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 12:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I've got the "Ride Like a Pro" videos and ran aground trying to complete the 24" circle exercise. Would have been great to have those hoses attached. Also had the xl Jpegs on as well so all your tips would have been handy!! Thanks for posting this!
Then be sure to see this thread on j-peg relocation

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...ewpost&t=15106

I still have a problem peeking where I don't want to go..the biggest trick is whipping your head around "like an Owl" and not looking any where other than where you want to go! I am now working on the tight maneuvers with the SO on board.

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post #13 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 12:49 pm
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I've had two nasty crashes, both of which affected me, and one my wife. We were hit by a truck from behind about 4 years ago, and my wife swore off riding after that, and I was very nervous about being on the road for a few months. I still watch the mirrors intently at stops and rarely stay at the end of a line of traffic. The other was on wet pavement on the coast highway where I came around a corner and rode into something slick I couldn't see, lost traction and had a 2-wheeled slide off the road into a ditch, after which i was punted off the bike and it high-sided onto the roadway. To this day I'm very pensive riding in the wet (especially in curves), and honestly I feel I've just backed of a little bit in most of my riding.

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post #14 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 2:30 pm
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5 years ago, I had a "run-in" with a left turner. I came out relatively unscathed, but the bike was totaled. It took a while for me to get my confidence back up. It got me to do ERCs and a Track Days. It reinstilled my faith in ATGATT.

Here are the lingering effects.

1. I hate riding in the city. I used to commute and use the bike for in-town trips to the store. I don't do this very much anymore. When I cross the DFW metroplex, it is a stressful experience. The first chance I have to get out of town, I'm there. I'll go 100 miles out of my way to avoid city riding.

2. I don't like riding in groups. Unless I know the people in the group very well, understand their riding habits, and have a level of trust with them, I won't do it. Leading groups is even more of a beating for me. I'll do it, but I don't enjoy it that much. Put me in the back of the pack and I'm fine. I'm sure I've pissed off many a rider by not riding in their group (or leading a group), but that's their problem, not mine.

3. I get a lump in my stomach anytime I even ride around the block without all the gear on. Got a wild hair to ride to dinner without the gear one evening when we were in Jasper, AR. The restaurant was 10 miles away. That was the most unnerving 20 mile trip I have ever done in my life. Never again!

4. I've put more miles on motorcycles in the 5 years since the accident than in the combined 20+ the years leading up to the accident. Probably since I don't do the short city trips anymore, and go all those extra miles to avoid crowded traffic situations.


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post #15 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 2:44 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks again folks. I'm really studying what's going on between me and the bike.

I'm still enjoying it, mostly, just not like I used to.

Rando.
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post #16 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 2:48 pm
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Any vehicle accident can leave you apprehensive for a while. I decided long ago I will not let that stop my riding. If the injuries are serious and effect normal riding I will go the side car or trike route but I will ride. I have avoided hospital time but have had a couple of 'incidents'that required a painful recovery. I even rode home with what turned out to be a broken collar bone and tweaked back rather than let some idiot in a tow truck handle my bike. I never lost interest in riding but did lose interest in one non-BMW sport bike that was just not safe to ride without more sport bike skills than I cared to aquire.
As to the LT, give it time. It took a while before I was really comfortable on it but it was worth the effort to learn. I can't imaginge not owning one at this point.
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post #17 of 49 Old Oct 9th, 2006, 2:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Then be sure to see this thread on j-peg relocation

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=15106
I saw that, looks nice. I've removed the pegs for now. I think the XL's are too big for me, when I've tried to use them they are too much of a stretch to reach. I commute most of the time in dense traffic anyway so not much of an opportunity to use them. The bike came with them installed so I'll be exploring different options. Thanks.

Dan
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post #18 of 49 Old Oct 10th, 2006, 11:05 am
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I've crashed several times although it's been almost 25 years since my last kiss of the pavement. It's good to see you got right back on; that's half the battle after an injury.

Remember, the LT is a big beast and will always be a more awkward thing to push around at low speeds. I believe you are having second thoughts about your decision to buy the LT. I hate to say it but I think you want a lighter bike to throw around and have a little fun with. I keep an old Honda 750K for around town fun. You might consider a second bike or trade for a RT.

Regarding the convertible: I have a Mini Cooper S convertible that is a blast to drive but it is in no way comparable to a motorcycle. I have joked with my friends however that when I get old and feeble enough to consider a trike that I will just keep the top down on the Mini when it rains.

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post #19 of 49 Old Oct 10th, 2006, 12:44 pm
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I haven't had a crash in the short time I've been riding, but I was impressed with your post -- you obviously have your head screwed on straight, and IMO the very fact that you are debating/discussing these issues tell me that it will all work out for you. You will, one day, answer your own question.

Good luck.

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post #20 of 49 Old Oct 10th, 2006, 1:08 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks. It's been cool just having folks reply that I'm not the only one whose been in this predicament. We're getting there. I find myself wanting to ride, even took the LT to the mall for a headphone cable last night.

I'd love to have a 650 strom to blast around town and for short trips, but we're not in a position to have two bikes right now, so the LT is my only weapon of choice for the time being.

Thanks
Rando
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post #21 of 49 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 1:52 pm
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Hi,

I had a crash many years ago. I was "white lining" and making good progress through a series of turns when I lost the front wheel on some gravel on the side of the road.

Even today, 20 years on, I'm still a little nervous of right handers (UK roads) and don't get as close to the kerb as I used too, so I'm not getting the maximum out of the bike. left handers are fine, will get up to the edge of the white line and throw the bike into the left turn without blinking, but come up on an equally tight right hander I'll be slower through the turn.

I do training with the Police every year, but still can't break my nervousness. Police say my riding is good, and I take good lines through the corners, but I always have this little nag at the back of my head there just might be a few stones to flip me off the bike.

Just take it easy and relax. I don't get left behind very often by the rest of the crowd, so I must be riding quick eneough for them.

Rgds
Mike

"For those that know, no explanation is needed,
For those that don't, no explanation is possible."

2001 K12 LT Toscana Green AKA Baby Sh*t Green
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post #22 of 49 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 2:41 pm
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Quote:
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Hi,

Just take it easy and relax. I don't get left behind very often by the rest of the crowd, so I must be riding quick eneough for them.
Mike, just ride as fast as you can see - if you can't see, just pussyfoot round those blind curves - on an LT, you'll be gobsmacked - you'll still get back more quickly than most sports bikes.

  • 2005 LT - 17 countries, 2 CONTINENTS & counting !
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post #23 of 49 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 5:39 pm
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Sep 1986 Still Cautious

There I was...accelerating to from 100 to 105 to pass ...

He turned left. Which brings me to questions:

Does everybody remember sliding along and all the thoughts going thru your head??? I swear I thought more in those seconds than I did the weeks before, or when I decided to pass!

Is everyone's 1st thought..."hmmm , I think I am alive. I wonder if I am paralyzed", then wiggle there two, then fingers to see if they are paralyzed? Most I talk to do it in that order.

Why does only one shoe come off? While looking for my shoe, I was impressed by my Interceptor being the kindling stoking the flames on the two cars it was wedged between at the rural roadside gas station .

Finally, Shealey -- what they heck are you doing -- two bikes in 5 years!? If there was nothing you could do to prevent it, then don't bother, but I really want to hear what bone-headed thing you were doing.

Now the answers...about 6 mos later, again passing a car but this time in a passing zone and within the speed limit, his turn signal came on . I locked up the wheels and screeched to halt amidst to the blue smoke, causing flat spots on both the rear and FRONT tire (explain that one). I may have had an over reaction.

Now, 20 years later, I still don't even go between cars with out honking, pausing, thinking, looking for a get-away . Am I over it? Probably. Am I a better rider and person...maybe...sometimes...

Live and Learn, Ride to Live.
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post #24 of 49 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 10:36 pm
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I was accelerating from a stop light many years ago and saw a lady pull out from a parking lot ahead on my right. She immediately cut across all three through-lanes to get into a left turn lane. I nailed the front brake and locked up the rear (no ABS on an old XS11). She heard the tire squeal and so stopped dead in my lane at a 45 degree angle.

I nailed her right behind the driver's door and wrinkled the side of her car pretty good. I remember the huge saddlebag mounts protecting my right leg as the bike slammed sideways into her car before I was ejected. I landed on my hands and knees by her back wheel, the bike on it's side to my left. My first thought was "I don't feel broken" followed quickly by "How's the bike?". That about sums up the priorities. The good thing was a convertible full of young surfers that was behind me at the light stopped to help, and quickly explained to the officer exactly how she had violated my right-of-way.

I learned to just assume other drivers will do the stupidest thing possible. If they don't you just ride on, but if they do then at least you're prepared to take evasive action.

And yes, the books, videos, training courses, and track days all help with your abilities and your confidence (whether you've been in a wreck or not). I also love the brakes and ABS on my LT, and I'm sure I would have been able to stop in time had I been on the LT. Stupid happens, so all you can do is try and be prepared for it, and know what to do when it does happen.

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
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post #25 of 49 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 9:17 am
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Rando,

I have been riding for 32 years accident free until this year. On March 7, as I was riding my Electra Glide, I was the victim of a “Harley vs Ford Expedition” argument. Needless to say, I lost!

Thankfully, I do not remember anything after the impact until I woke up in the Emergency Room. My first thoughts were, “what the hell happened? Where am I? Holy crap…this hurts!”

I spent 4 days in ICU and 6 days total in the hospital. The extent of my injuries are still being evaluated, but the major ones included 5 broken ribs; a punctured lung; broken teeth; I bit through my tongue; head, back neck and shoulder trauma; as well as a host of soft tissue damage. My injuries would have been more severe, but were limited because I am a firm believer in ATGATT.

I got back on a bike in the middle of May and rode for 30 miles just to prove to myself that I could still do it. I was extremely nervous, a little shaky and my body did NOT want to play. Mind over body though, and after the first few miles, it almost felt natural again. (except for all the physical pain from injuries)

I’m to the point now that I don’t think about the accident anymore (other than the fact that I am STILL nursing my injuries) but I am no longer complacent. I don’t dismiss any potential threat until it has no possibility of affecting me. They ARE all out to get you. I guess motorcycling is one place where paranoia is beneficial.

Dave
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post #26 of 49 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 9:32 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding? I had my crash on May 31.

But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles. I can't even get close to doing the MSF U turn box in the 20' box; not reall good with the 24'. BUT, I haven't really come close to dumping it in a parking lot.

I haven't been in a slow speed situation that really caused concern. Just not comfortable. At road speeds, in the twisties, not really comfortable leaning this thing over, although I read where you guys do it all the time. I feel like a newbie again.
Yes manyhave, I've had two accident n the street, one was at 70mph, it did not phase me I was back riding to a get totgether hundreds of miles away the next weeeknd wraped in bandages from all the road rash

the second was at aboutr 20-25 mph tops, I was run over by a flatbed truck

that one was a little different spent a whole long time trying to walk again and hopeing one day my arm would work again (it was all but compltely severed tearing radial bnerve in two muscle everything) anyhow about 2 years after that accidetn (or somehwre about hen) I was able to get on the bike I tired riding it, made it about a mile had a hell of a time getting it back to the house no strength way too much pain still and I just did not realize how damn worried I was going to be when i got on the bike! , once i got enough strength in me left arm to help steer the bike I started again, i'l tell ya it was a long time untill the nervousness went away how long I'm really not sure as sometimes I still think about WTF could happen real quick like!

don't let it fool you! if it;s too soon it's just too soon park it for a while, being nervous to that point can cause you not to reposnd correctly to a "quick or panic" situation park the bike wait a month or two if you are not comfortable, when you are you won't be worried about trying to accomplish the "box' or any other tight situations.

At least that was my expereince

Tom

Tom

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post #27 of 49 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 9:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Well, I have been one that has come back after three very bad crashes, Totaled two LTs. It certainly did take some time to get comfortable again after each one. I did get comfortable though, and probably rode just as hard as always after a few thousand miles. That did not take long in time, as I was riding average 30,000 miles/year.

Guess what. I STILL want another bike! I know I would start out a little tentative again, especially since it has been two years now since I had one. I did take a demo ride on a new K1200GT a few weeks ago, could see some real enjoyment promised there.
NO NO NO NO!!! not the GT!!!

get a GS!!! it's more fun
(well not really I'm stil having a hard time with which one !!)

Tom (who is pissed at his wife as she will not leave the GS home anymore)

Tom

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post #28 of 49 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 9:35 am Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. What made mine stupid, I guess, was that after living here all my life, I don;t recall ever seeing ANYONE at the place where the people did the U turn in front of me. And who would expect someone to do a U turn between two blind curves on a US highway? Complacency on my part I guess. Not only can you expect people to do the most stupid things, tourists will do the most unexpected stupid things. My advice to us as tourers, is to be cool when you are in a strange town. the locals don't expect the random moves that tourists can make.

At the speed I was going, 55, the speed limit, there really wasn't much I could have done. Maybe brake harder? Who knows? I have already "what iffed" it to death.

And like the one guy said, I laid there, went over my bodily injuries and looked for the bike. It was hurt worse than me.

Interesting stories, folks. Thanks for sharing. hopefully we'll all be better for the experience, and not just the ones involved.

Rando
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post #29 of 49 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 10:07 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Thanks guys. What made mine stupid, I guess, was that after living here all my life, I don;t recall ever seeing ANYONE at the place where the people did the U turn in front of me. And who would expect someone to do a U turn between two blind curves on a US highway? Complacency on my part I guess. Not only can you expect people to do the most stupid things, tourists will do the most unexpected stupid things. My advice to us as tourers, is to be cool when you are in a strange town. the locals don't expect the random moves that tourists can make.

At the speed I was going, 55, the speed limit, there really wasn't much I could have done. Maybe brake harder? Who knows? I have already "what iffed" it to death.

And like the one guy said, I laid there, went over my bodily injuries and looked for the bike. It was hurt worse than me.

Interesting stories, folks. Thanks for sharing. hopefully we'll all be better for the experience, and not just the ones involved.

Rando

ya know this is exactly what is going to get me up here in the mountains
just last weekend I was reminded of that headed home from NJ, coming south on 129 someone had pulled over just out of a curve, there is actually no place to pull over there, but instead of going on and finding a safe place to turn around, they were just starting a U-TURN, on a single lane (each way) double yellow road just out of a pretty sharp curve, had I been just a little later and a little faster they would have been much further out in the road and I would have more than likely caught the left front of their car or t-boned them. BAd thing is if they would have just gone around the next curve there was a HUGE place to pull over and turn around safely ya know 1/4 mile away!

IDIOTS like that make the roads more dangerous than the just worrying about animals up here!

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
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post #30 of 49 Old Oct 14th, 2006, 1:30 am
 
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Been there - Done that as they say.
Had an accident on the LT this year. Had to wait nearly a month for the bike to be repaired which in some way helped - I didn't feel the need to get right back up on the horse straight away. When I did get back on true to say i was nervous at first but quickly decided its a mind game thing. The more you think about it the worse it gets. My 2 cents - learn your lesson if there was one & move on - forget about everything else - get back to what you enjoy doing - riding. I can honestly say I don't even think about it now.

Re the slow manoeuvre issue the best advice I received was to up the revs to between 2000 - 2500, feather the clutch & only use your rear break. With this level of rpm you stabilize the bike when leaning it over - something to do with centrifugal or is it centripetal force. My experience - the box was way easier once you get used to this technique

Good luck with the LT, its a great bike & if you stay with it you wont regret it

Mike
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post #31 of 49 Old Oct 16th, 2006, 8:00 am Thread Starter
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Been messing witht he revs in box type uturns. seems awful high revs so far. I'll keep working at it. All these folks on here can't be wrong about it.

Did go for a little ride yesterday with the wife and felt much better than last time. Was not setting any speed records, but was enjoying the ride and had plenty left over for evasive manuevers and mid corner corrections, etc. The LT is very good in this regard.

Rando
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post #32 of 49 Old Oct 16th, 2006, 3:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhendy
Does everybody remember sliding along and all the thoughts going thru your head???
As I recall, everything went real slow, I could have baked a cake in the time it took the accident to happen, complete with frosting.

I think I was up on my feet quick, but in them days I was wearing poor quality gloves and the road came right through them and made a nice mess of my palms. Was only wearing Jeans, and both knees were through to the now bleeding skin, but nothing more thann lots of road rash.

I don't ride without all the gear, and soon after my spill invested in a pair of leathers and some good quality gloves and a new helmet.

Woolly, You are right about riding to your own speed and ability, I do try and keep up with the quicker bikes, but not at all costs, always within my own comfort envelope. I'll keep up the yearly rides with Rospa and the Police, and hope to keep my sheet clean, and by keeping accident free I'll keep the inside of my pants clean too! ( sorry, not an image you want)

Rgds
Mike

"For those that know, no explanation is needed,
For those that don't, no explanation is possible."

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post #33 of 49 Old Oct 16th, 2006, 4:29 pm
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Cool One strategy is ride a bike that is more nimble

Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles.
Rando,

On two wheels since 1971, I've seen lots of miles and bumps in the road. I've lost pals due to bad riding and bad luck. Lost pals due to airplanes and helicopters. Again, bad flying and bad luck. After four years on my LT, I moved to the GT. No MSF issues on this nimble powerhouse. It is so agile. Nearly 300# less weight and the lower cg combine to provide low speed confidence.

I was in a car roll-over as a young man. Dragged my best friend out of the car. Seems like yesterday. Doesn't keep me from cars.

I have already dropped my GT. Tried to ride over a curb that was too tall. Got right back on and down the road I go.

Don't let an event keep you from the joy of riding. My M3 was fun. But, this GT is so much more exhilaration than the M3 ever was. SO loves the GT. She calls the ride "THE CLOUD." The suspension settings are so fast, so simple and really wonderful.

Good luck working thru your thoughts. Confidence is important. When Davey Allison killed himself in the chopper landing, it was over confidence combined with bad decision making. Self preservation mixed with lust for speed can be great fun.

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
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2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #34 of 49 Old Apr 14th, 2009, 5:32 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

A number of years ago i was in a Quad accident. I should be dead right now. I went through a barbed wire fence at about 50 kmph. I was always a firm beleiver in ATGATT but somehow that mind set didn't translate onto the quad. The worst part of it was that my 8 yr old daughter was sat behind me. If she had been sat in front...Thankfully she made it through unscathed. I was not so lucky, cracked sternum / broken ribs / bruised everything / lacerated everything else that wasn't bruised and various punctures from the barbs. It was totally my own fault and i couldn't so much as look at my '79 Goldwing at the time without breaking out in tears of shame and absolute stupidity that I displayed. It is without a doubt the most gratuitously stupid thing i have ever done. To this day the sight of barbed wire gives me the chills. It was almost 2 years before i could even sit on the thing and another couple of months before I could take it out of the garage. The "what if..." scenario still plays out in my mind to this day and i think it always will. THe only up side to all this was that it has made me a better rider and a better cager. I don't care if it is +30 C, i still wear ATGATT. It took a long time but I am now comfortable on a bike again (08 RT) but I will never be able to go near a quad again. All i can say is if you want to stay on the bike great, and if you decide to go to a car or some such, that's great too. Just enjoy what what ever you do. And try not to beat yourself up about it too much.
Good luck with what ever you decide
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post #35 of 49 Old Apr 14th, 2009, 6:52 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding?
Yup life is "different" since it's been proven that I'm no longer "invincible"
I can honestly say my desire to ride is as strong as it ever was.
But I am definitely a little bit slower and a lot more cautious rider,
getting older probably has something to do with that also.

It's been about three years since my wife and I totaled the LT.
We were in the (appropriately named) sawtooth mountains of Idaho,
as I topped a hill an Elk ran at the bike, it was so quick I never even had a chance to hit my brakes.

I prefer not to ride at night now, those large hairy things are too damn unpredictable.

Everytime I ride the "knowing" that even if I do everything right
"the ...... IT ...........can happen at any moment"
feeling is ...... and probably always will be, with me.


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

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"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
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post #36 of 49 Old Apr 14th, 2009, 10:19 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding?

December 19, 1999, 19:30hrs. Drunk driver over-corrected through an s-curve and crossed the center-line and hit a solid object - me!

I was traveling at 35mph, and was 1/2 mile from my house. I was on my way to dinner with friends after watching a night launch of the shuttle.

I suffered a brain injury (explains me, now doesn't it? :-)), broken ribs, broken elbow, broken ankle, broken foot, broken teeth, borken nose, and a de-gloving injury to my left foot. (Degloving, as in fileted open like skinning a fish).

My Bell helmet (the old American made type) cracked in half from the impact. I was lucky to only have a mild brian injury.

A helo ride, a few weeks in Bayfront Medical Center, surgeries and de-breedment for the foot, and 9 months convalessing at home, I was almost good as new.

I could walk, talk, work, and ride. I still limp a bit.


First time back on a bike was an early Sunday morning. I went for a ride that duplicated the route I took on the fateful night. I just needed to complete it.
When I passed that section of road, I had tunnel vision, sweats, flashbacks, fear, and damn near panic. As I made it past there and finished my route, I learned several things:

A) I can ride again and enjoy it.
B) War vets are experiencing flashbacks that I'll never experience and my heart goes out to those brave souls, just having had the little ones I had. I have never-ending respect for them.
C) I don't see myself as more cautious, just riding in a more enhanced mental state.
D) I know who my friends are.


My advice....get back on it as soon as possible, and make sure you tell those you love that you love them dearly. Why? Because, you never know.

And make sure you are straight with your God. If you don't believe, you better be right.
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post #37 of 49 Old Apr 15th, 2009, 12:00 am
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Re: Difference after crash?

Aint things more precious ? Sure are for me...

.... where I'll go on the last ride isn't up to me... ... all I can do is ATGATT...

=P
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post #38 of 49 Old Apr 15th, 2009, 6:46 am
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Re: Difference after crash?

Never in a collision where I was moving. There was the time in 01 when the trash truck, who decided to back up instead of going forward, backed into me in front of my driveway... I couldn't push the LT back fast enough, and he couldn't hear my horn.

Went through a period when it was no longer enjoyable. When I "put down" my riding gear for a couple years, I found the passion came back full force one day and led me back to the damn LT again, which I love... hate... love... hate... love. For me, walking away from it for a while was the best medicine. Otherwise, I may have become complacent in my boredom (or anger at the stupidity of other drivers) or whatever it was I was feeling. Good luck on sorting it out.
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post #39 of 49 Old Apr 15th, 2009, 8:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: Difference after crash?

Wow, I had to go back and refresh my memory on this un. I'm still riding. Not much, but that's more a function of family than desire. I want to ride, just don't have the time to do so. Still can't do the 20' U turn box, but can make the weaves and all else on the range that I need to. I can do the ERC U turn which is 24'.

My confidence has returned, my confidence in the LT has grown to a point where I'm comfortable with it, even though I still miss my old Vstrom.

I'm coming up on 3 years since my crash. I still have only ridden that route once since the crash. Just don;t go that way much anymore. Not even in the vehicles.

All my injuries are fairly well healed - only the extra weight remains that I gained from being able to do nothing while I recuperated.

Talk to yas later.
Randy
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post #40 of 49 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 12:21 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

My '02 worth:

Getting my R1 ready to head down to NC/Tn area for our first ride of the season. Bike has new tires and a new Fairing panel from my get off last September....heavy oil and coal dust got in me in a sharp left hander. Two of us went down.

I have been sport riding a bit in Socal. I went and spent a full afternoon at Palomar going up and down the sweet curvy S1 and S2. By about my 6th run....I quit scrutinizing every corner and was able to get up to normal speeds. You have to reteach your brain not to be afraid. I still find myself checking road condition too closely but then maybe that is a good thing.

Ron
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post #41 of 49 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 10:18 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

A couple ideas
1) The LT and VStrom are 2 different bikes - size, balance, weight, riding position, etc.

2) Part of your uncomfortableness may have to do with the crash or may not. Would be interesting to try a VStrom if you can get your hands on one and see how IT feels.

After my crash (unprovoked attack by a SUV) I got my new LT and at 400 miles tried the Motor Patrol course. Could not finish ANY of the exercises! :-( A few weeks later, I could do most of them, but I tried them first without an audience.

If you want to explore ideas, PM me.

Jim Taylor
Minneapolis
07 Black LT "Dancing Heart", 03 Quantum "Ice"
02 Black LTC "Raven" (RIP 8/26/06)
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post #42 of 49 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 5:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Difference after crash?

Oh I"m okay with the LT now. And yes getting used to the differences as well as getting used to riding again was a bit intimidating. I like the LT for what it is.

Thanks for the offer. This is a way old thread. : )

Randy
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post #43 of 49 Old May 11th, 2009, 6:35 pm
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Unhappy Crash!!! dang people and their 4 wheels!

Had my first accident with my baby today! She is only 5 yrs old too!

Comming through traffic in a city (NORRISTOWN PA), when an old man (81) decided to shoot out from around a truck he couldnt see! Guess who was waiting for him with hi beams and a brand new set of PIAA gleaming down the road!! Perhaps my hi-viz yellow jacket wasnt visable from behind the ball of light.

I have come to the conclusion; I will never ride a smaller bike! I have some damage, paint mostly to the right fairings, and a tire mark on the rear pannier.
If it wansn't for the HUGE tip over wings on this monster, I would have ruined the bike!
Not to mention, would have been in the hospital with either one less leg, or a shatterd right leg. The wings basically bounced me off of his front fender. Was able to keep the bike up till I pulled over.
A scary experience! But I have to agree to an extent with some of you, I drive as alert as possible, always being deffensive! But you can't be ready for everything.

I had to laugh a little bit though, I had a motorcycle (LT) and have less damage than a chrysler 300C!!!!
Shows that bigger doesn;t always win. But better always does!!!

Does anybody have an idea what it cost to replace and paint a side fairing(engine area) on a 04 LTC, I imagine I am not the first to have to switch one out!!
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post #44 of 49 Old May 12th, 2009, 2:58 am
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Re: Crash!!! dang people and their 4 wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjwe43
Had my first accident with my baby today! She is only 5 yrs old too!.....
Glad you're OK. Hang in there and stay safe.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #45 of 49 Old May 16th, 2009, 11:14 am
 
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Talking Re: Difference after crash?

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Originally Posted by rando
Anyone had a crash that changed your feelings towards riding? I had my crash on May 31.

After crash, wanted to ride again, looked forward to it, but felt like I was ready to slow down some, enjoy the ride a little more, etc. So a big tourer was what I thought I wanted. So here I am with an LT which is awesome on the slab and on sweepers.

But now for the real issue: I am just nowhere near comfortable on the LT after 2000 miles.

I haven't been in a slow speed situation that really caused concern. Just not comfortable. At road speeds, in the twisties, not really comfortable leaning this thing over, although I read where you guys do it all the time. I feel like a newbie again.

I'm wondering how much is me and the bike getting familiar, or how much is me having a crash? Riding is not as much fun as it used to be. There is much more concern on may part about crashing again. I am way more nervous than I have been in years. I have already said that if I survive another crash like the last one, I will not get back on.

I was talking and thinking this weekend that I'm almost ready to trade the LT for a fully loaded Vstrom. But then, what if I get the Vstrom and find that I'm still not comfortable?

It's all me, I know, and my mind. I know when I went thru the twisties this weekend I was riding at a snails pace, but really did not feel comfortable going faster. I know the bike has more there. I was watching in the mirrors as slugbug was coming thru and saw that he was barely leaning.

I'm going to give the LT and my riding some more time, but I also keep thinking there are 4 wheeled vehicles out there that are very sporting (miata, maybe?) that give me the open air, sporting experience (rush)that the motorcycle does. And the motorcycle is mroe than riding to me. I like fiddling with it, adding little farkles here and there, maintenance, improvements, etc. A sports car could do the same in that regard too.

In talking to another coach who crashed similarly (but worse) last year, he is having the same kind of issues.

Thanks for "listening" guys - just trying to work out some "stuff"....
rando
I know what you're feeling..Had a low side on an off ramp when transitioning from one freeway to another. It was a 270 degree right turn and I was looking through the turn as taught doing about 40-45 mph and hit a clear oil slick about 180 degrees through the turn. Went down so fast it took me a couple of seconds to figure "WTF?" as I was trying to kick myself free from the LT which I did..The LT slid for about a 100 feet and I for about 75 feet. ATTGATT so no harm other than a slightly sprained right ankle.
Since that time I am very leery of leaning into turns especially right ones.. I know the LT can do the twisties with gusto but I don't push it anymore..I got up and rode it home afterwards cautiously..I still ride today with pleasure but am very cautious approaching sweeping turns..I very studiously check the surface as I go through the sweepers which negates looking through the turns as taught..
Stiil love to ride but the thought has crossed my mind that if anything happens again I just may step down from riding and an alternate means of getting from A to Z..
Ride safe, R.
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post #46 of 49 Old May 16th, 2009, 12:30 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

I'm guessing it's a combo of you're skittishness after your crash with the natural learing curve on the LT. You'll need more practice and more miles before that latter clears up. As for leaning into corners, you can do it hard on the LT, it handles it just fine.

Greg
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post #47 of 49 Old May 16th, 2009, 5:24 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

Maybe you should have bought an RT! Much lighter and way easier to handle. Last October I was riding my 07 Moto Guzzi Norge. A 16yr old girl made a left turn in front of me while she was text messaging. I broadsided her car, did a flip in the air and landed on my back. I broke all the lumbar processes off from L1 down. I will now have considerable back pain for the rest of my life. (I am 63 now) I was only going about 25-30 mph when it happened so that probably saved my life. I am now very paranoid about riding in-side the city limits. I wanted to buy a 1200RT before I purchased my Norge. I stopped at a Moto Guzzi dealer to get my Aprilia Scarabeo 500GT scooter serviced and took a Norge for a test ride. Fell in love with the classic Italian looks and that great Guzzi sound. But - during the time I owned my Norge I was always wishing that I had bought the RT instead. The Norge was a wonderful bike. Handled better and sounded a lot better than the RT but that was about all. The RT is a true sport touring bike. I feel that heated seats & grips, cruise control, a decent windscreen etc are a must on a sport touring bike. I could not be happier with my RT now that I own one. It is everything that I imagined it would be and a lot more. I now do 90% of my riding on the back country roads and try to stay out of the city and the crazy drivers who are taking on cell phones and eating and God knows what else while they are driving. Today I rode from Dubuque, Iowa up to Soldiers Grove, Wisconsin for the Madison BMW Club rally. It was only about a 200 mile round trip in 30 mph winds but I still had one hell of a good time. I have to ware a back brace now but it does not affect my riding only that I have to stop every 50 to 60 miles to give my back a rest. I just can't imagine not riding my RT.....

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post #48 of 49 Old May 17th, 2009, 10:33 am
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Smile Re: Difference after crash?

No crash here: but I went from a 03 Vee to an 05 LT and back to a 07 V-Strom 1000 and never looked back.

While the farkles and comfort is good on my 05 LT, I feel most comfortable on my Vstrom. I fear no roads as I did on my LT and if anything goes wrong, the VStrom is alot lighter bike to pick up, fix and keep maintained as compared to the LT. VStrom is easier to ride fast also..

Since farkling the Vstrom I find my seat and legs are more comfortable also for longer distance riding.

*Also, the longer time you spend in the saddle, the more comfortable you will become with the LT. She is a big girl to dance with but very able!

47+ Yrs Daily Motorcycle Street riding for Therapy

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour
2007 Black Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - Sold
2007 Red Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 - Sold
2005 LT Dark Graphite - (Sold)
2005 PearlBlue FJR1300 (Sold)
3 BMW's, 8 HD baggers, 3 Goldwings & 860K + miles later
*Ridin steady since 1973
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post #49 of 49 Old May 18th, 2009, 12:29 pm
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Re: Difference after crash?

The VStroms, (Wee DL650 and Vee DL1000) are probably motorcycling most versatile and best kept secrets. To bad that due to emission standards in Europe, the VStorm (DL1000) will disappear forever.
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