ESPN's Gregg Easterbrook think's we're all morons for riding motorcycles - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 8:16 am Thread Starter
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ESPN's Gregg Easterbrook think's we're all morons for riding motorcycles

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t&lid=tab3pos2

You'll have to scroll down his column a bit.


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post #2 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 8:57 am
 
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I think, that he thinks, anyone who buys a 200mph bike to ride on the streets is an idiot, not that all motorcyclists are idiots
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post #3 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 9:04 am Thread Starter
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It appears an earlier version of his column has been edited. He was originally implying that anyone who has a 1000cc or greater bike is a moron.


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post #4 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 9:14 am
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Howdy Richard,

I have and ride a bike theoretically capable of 165 mph on the street. By the logic espoused by that article, shouldn't I be considered "an idiot"?

If yes, then:

I also have a bike capable of speeds in excess of 120 mph on the street. By that same logic, shouldn't that make me "an idiot" as well? Hmmm. We are all part of an LT board

It's not what you have, guns, money, Religion, motorcycles, etc., that define you, it's how you use them.

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post #5 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 9:15 am
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Not surprising Jeff. It is implicit in his argument. It's just a matter of degree.

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post #6 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 9:32 am
 
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Gregg obviously has some misconceptions about 'useful application of power' on the highways. CAN a race rocket get you into trouble fast? You bet. But it can also be used to get you OUT of trouble just as fast.

It all comes down to pilot capability and judgement.
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post #7 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 9:56 am
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Looked like a great ad for Hayabusa - who knew they "throbbed"?
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post #8 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 10:08 am
 
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The guy probably owns a Corvette, maybe we should outlaw Corvettes also, What an idiot.
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post #9 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 10:15 am
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Funny how he glazes right past the football injury statistics when applauding the safety of the new football helmets. Head,shoulder and spinal injuries to young men from football far out weighs injuries on motorcycles and always will. Should we outlaw high school and college football for the greater good of society? What a jackass. His point of the 200 hp motorcycle.. "The only real use of the acceleration ability is road rage". Lets get rid of the Pep-Rally while we are at it since the only purpose is to incite rage for the opponent. Oh that's right when it's organized sports it's called Spirit. I love extremist thinkers. They are so fun to watch as they box themselves into a corner with their own point of view.

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post #10 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:12 am
 
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If you buy something designed to do 'X' and you are using it to do 'Y' I don't know if that would qualify a person as an idiot.....but.

Let be go into a bit more of an explantion of what I am driving at. What is the purpose a bike that goes in really really fast? If it is to go really really fast then where should you be using it? I would argue that it's use would be on the track and not on the street.

Now if the purpose of the bike, with a big engine and gear ratios set to get as fast as you can as quick as you can, is not to go really really fast, what is it for? Bragging rights? Mine is bigger than yours? Something else entirely? You tell me.
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post #11 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
If you buy something designed to do 'X' and you are using it to do 'Y' I don't know if that would qualify a person as an idiot.....but.

Let be go into a bit more of an explantion of what I am driving at. What is the purpose a bike that goes in really really fast? If it is to go really really fast then where should you be using it? I would argue that it's use would be on the track and not on the street.

Now if the purpose of the bike, with a big engine and gear ratios set to get as fast as you can as quick as you can, is not to go really really fast, what is it for? Bragging rights? Mine is bigger than yours? Something else entirely? You tell me.
I agree with you Richard that the designed to do X and use for Y point. But from his article he makes it seem that it's the bike that is at fault and should be legislated and regulated for speed. I don't even think it is the model,brand or horse power that is at issue. It is the small percentage of people that that are adrenaline junkies that ride at those speeds, base jump or rock climb etc. that skew the statistics and make the activity more dangerous. My biggest objection to his point of view is "Where does it stop" if they start restricting HP to weight ratios. Does an 850 lb bike with 116 HP fall into his cross hairs?

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post #12 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:56 am
 
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Wow... That is some of the lamest logic I have read in a long time... It reminds of something my son (15 at the time) once said - if it wasn't alright to speed, they wouldn't build fast cars....


Be honest now, how many of you spent more time checking out the Redskins Cheerleader calendar...

Thanks Jeff...
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post #13 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 12:35 pm
 
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I admit that laws of that type can be a waste of time. But, let's not treat manufacturer as blameless in this situation. They market the bike as something that goes really really fast. So how do you hold a manufaturer responsible? I have no clue.
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post #14 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 1:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
I admit that laws of that type can be a waste of time. But, let's not treat manufacturer as blameless in this situation. They market the bike as something that goes really really fast. So how do you hold a manufaturer responsible? I have no clue.
In the U.S. you don't. However, if the manufacturer built that powerful bike with inadequate brakes, then they would find themselves on the wrong end of a liability suit. In short, in the U.S. you are held to a standard of delivering a "reasonable" product relative to what is advertised.

If you want that the type of Governmental interference/dictates regarding specific components of performance characterics, in this case horsepower, then do like Johnny Depp did and move to France. They restrict m/c horsepower to 106bhp regardless of application, touring, sport, etc..


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post #15 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 1:42 pm
 
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If you want that the type of Governmental .......


What part of 'I don't have a clue' did you not understand? Where in my message did you glean the thought that I wanted anything of the type? Stop being disingenuous.

if you want to have some discussion on the subject( when in engaging in a discussion remember, there is always the chance you will find that you are wrong and need change your position) I'm cool, but if all you want to do is push your point of view( government=bad, liberal=cowards, whatever) try someone else cause that kind of demagoguery is waste of my time.
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post #16 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 2:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
I admit that laws of that type can be a waste of time. But, let's not treat manufacturer as blameless in this situation. They market the bike as something that goes really really fast. So how do you hold a manufaturer responsible? I have no clue.
I guess I don't understand you either - manufacturer as blameless for what? A bike that will go over the speed limit? All sport and bikes are marketed in that way, even BMWs. Just exactly what is the manufacturer to be held responsible for?
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post #17 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 2:59 pm
 
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I would hold the manufacturer responsible for how they pitch the bike

Lets look at how it is 'marketed"

...GSX1300R is the fastest production bike on the planet...

...awesome acceleration the instant you twist the throttle....

Now is this the type of driving you want on a public road? Or does it sound like it would be best suited for racing? It sounds to me like a racing bike.

Now I know that lots of folks with bikes really seem to like that whole 'go fast' thing and I am not arguing on one side of that or the other. What I am saying is the bike is marketed under the concept of 'go really really fast, faster than anyone else, be the fastest in the whole wide world and I think, that given the level of rider training in this country and the demographic they aim for, they are being irresponsible and share some culpibility when an idiot buys the thing as does stupid stuff with it.
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post #18 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 4:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
I would hold the manufacturer responsible for how they pitch the bike

Lets look at how it is 'marketed"

...GSX1300R is the fastest production bike on the planet...

...awesome acceleration the instant you twist the throttle....

Now is this the type of driving you want on a public road? Or does it sound like it would be best suited for racing? It sounds to me like a racing bike.
And take that concept to almost every car commercial I see on TV these days - the truck falling off the cliff with no damage, the car skidding into a parking stall, the SUV plowing across the desert. All these come with the same disclaimer: "Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt. Obey all traffic laws."

Same applies to the bike. The "marketing folk" are at it again! Who cares if the bike is fast? It's fast, they make it, they'll continue to make it and we as consumers need to respect the machine and ride it within our (and it's) abilities. I see no liability on the part of the manufacturer to make sure that the bike is never ridden above 65 MPH.

However, I do agree that we need more rider training. I think everyone who buys a new bike should have to take a rider course before getting the license endorsement (I know A&S cycles (or BMW itself?) included a certificate for $100 off of rider training... a positive step that should be followed by all manufacturers).

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post #19 of 34 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 5:03 pm
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I wonder what he would think about someone riding a Hyabusa while shooting a gun......

I think we should have a ban on all contact sports. For that matter, any sport where there has ever been an injured player or spectator. ESPN would cease to exist, and we wouldn't have to listen to morons like him.
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post #20 of 34 Old Aug 12th, 2006, 6:22 am
 
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Notice I did not use the word liability I used the word responsibility.While they hold some concepts in common they do not mean the same thing. And I agree we can not hold the manufacturer liable for the actions of it's customers.
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post #22 of 34 Old Aug 12th, 2006, 7:58 am
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For once I'm pretty sure I'm not an idiot
My bikes only have 100 hp and 65 hp and it looks like I can ride them in France

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post #23 of 34 Old Aug 12th, 2006, 7:58 am
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Wait called some friends...still an idiot

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post #24 of 34 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:26 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
If you want that the type of Governmental .......


What part of 'I don't have a clue' did you not understand? Where in my message did you glean the thought that I wanted anything of the type? Stop being disingenuous.

if you want to have some discussion on the subject( when in engaging in a discussion remember, there is always the chance you will find that you are wrong and need change your position) I'm cool, but if all you want to do is push your point of view( government=bad, liberal=cowards, whatever) try someone else cause that kind of demagoguery is waste of my time.
Sorry Rixchard, please accept my apology. No offense was intended.

I should have, and if I could do it over would have, said, "If someone wants that type of Governmental....". I did not mean it as a personal affront, just a general observation about how the U.S. deals with product liability as opposed to the approach taken by other countries, in this case France.

As an aside; I am never disingenuous about my point of view and always push my point of view
.

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post #25 of 34 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 8:27 am
 
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No harm done. Typing can be such a limiting form of communication. Probably explains why letters were so long, back in the day.
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post #26 of 34 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 11:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t&lid=tab3pos2

You'll have to scroll down his column a bit.
Who is Greg Easterbrook? And why should I give a flying f$#@ at a rolling donut what he thinks?

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post #27 of 34 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 11:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
No harm done. Typing can be such a limiting form of communication. Probably explains why letters were so long, back in the day.
Congratulations rixchard, post # 1000 a milestone (pun intended)


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post #28 of 34 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 12:51 pm
 
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Hmmm, 1000 posts and probably no more than dozen directly to the he bike I'd wager
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post #29 of 34 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 1:08 pm
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #30 of 34 Old Aug 21st, 2006, 3:15 pm
 
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Funny how the author never mentions the fact thet Roethlisberger was appearently going the speed limit and had the right of way when accident occurred. It was grandma the failed to yield the right of way.

Why aren't there any rants about the dangers of letting old people get behind the wheel?

Ben's two mistakes were no helmet and no motorcycle license; but I supect the media spin would have been the same even if he had the helmet and license.
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post #31 of 34 Old Aug 21st, 2006, 3:52 pm
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"ESPN's Gregg Easterbrook think's we're all morons for riding motorcycles "
Who cares what the SOM B thinks.
Ride your own ride.
Do your own thing.
Stop giving the SOM B notarity.
Let him go make his Doilies, or what ever you call those little frillie things that women crochet that goes under lamps and what nots.

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post #32 of 34 Old Aug 21st, 2006, 4:09 pm
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Unfortunately, he's not the only person who thinks so. And having some public exposure, it does matter what he thinks, or at least what he says. It's way to easy to sway the sheep if you can convince them you're on their side.

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #33 of 34 Old Aug 21st, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amsoilguy
The guy probably owns a Corvette, maybe we should outlaw Corvettes also, What an idiot.
Yep, he's probably got a plastic car to go along with his attitude. I found his email address and gave him an invitation to meet for a ride on the GT.

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #34 of 34 Old Aug 29th, 2006, 1:06 pm
 
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BWAHAHAHA...I absolutely LOVE this thread! Unfortunately the article seems to have changed by now so I can't read that which touched it off. I'm enjoying the firestorm of ill will that has been touched off by someone daring to call people who engage in street racing idiots. As far as I can tell this guy used a pretty broad brush and painted anyone who would even buy a bike capable of such speeds as an idiot (sounds familiar to me). It gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that I was right, many people here are happy to use that brush on anyone who chooses to ride without a helmet (some more fanatical types go further than just helmets, you know who you are) no matter what the circumstances, but soon as someone touches on their brand of stupidity they go off like a stick of dynamite!!

Don't worry, commentary like this from mass media figures probably won't lead to an outright ban of super-fast bikes, probably just a call for madatory speed governors that limit all vehicles to double digit speeds, or some other "reasonable" compromise that will keep you safe from yourself.

Based on what I've observed here where many of those who support helmet laws also see no harm in being a stupid-fast rider on public streets I will not openly oppose any calls for laws mandating governors or horsepower limits (at least not on this site) I don't usually choose to increase MY level of risk to myself or others by riding that way so, based on what I've learned here, why should I defend your right to do so?

Oh, by the way, I know it is a different argument in that just because you have a super fast bike doesn't necessarily mean you ride like the brainless idiot that some here do, while riding without a helmet at ANY speed always increases your risk to some extent...blah blah blah...we're all stupid to someone and need to be protected from ourselves. As predicted they are now coming for you too.
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