Good Example of the Cost of Helmet (or lack of) Laws - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 6:24 am Thread Starter
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Good Example of the Cost of Helmet (or lack of) Laws

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/cda/arti...-PRINT,00.html


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post #2 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 6:33 am
 
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A very interesting article. thanx!
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post #3 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 6:50 am
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Interesting.

This brings up a question: if you live in a state where helmets are not required, are you required to ride with a helmet when you travel to a state where it is required? (in other words, does your "home state's" helmet requirement go with you?)

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post #4 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 6:59 am
 
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No. You must follow each State's laws.

But what this article is saying is that the hospital in TN is also the designated trauma center for parts of KY that don't have a helmet law...and they're are the ones having to flip the bill for it. Even though they're in a different state.
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post #5 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 7:06 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
No. You must follow each State's laws.

But what this article is saying is that the hospital in TN is also the designated trauma center for parts of KY that don't have a helmet law...and they're are the ones having to flip the bill for it. Even though they're in a different state.
Yep, I got that from reading the article. The article just prompted the somewhat-related question I posed.

Thanks

And BTW: Recently many of our posts are appearing back-to-back across several threads. We have to got to get off the same schedule. People will talk...

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post #6 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 7:29 am
 
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"When other people are paying your way, rules and regulations need to be in place," Miller said.
Amen.

This is the only problem I have with the way current helmet laws (or lack thereof) are written. Hospitals are obligated by law to render emergency services to anyone who needs - whether or not they can afford it or have planned for it.

Want freedom of 'choice'? Ride naked for all I care. Just don't ask me to foot the bill through my (ever increasing) motorcycle and medical insurance premiums and taxes. That 75% figure quoted of helmetless motorcycle head trauma cases that aren't insured is the 'money shot' of the whole article IMHO. That's just not right.

Maybe upon getting a MC endorsement, it should be required to sign a waiver declining any/all non-covered medical treatment to the head for those involved in any MC accident while helmetless? That'd be a fair assumption of responsibility for those who want to have the 'freedom' to ride helmetless, IMO.

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post #7 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 7:37 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Interesting.

This brings up a question: if you live in a state where helmets are not required, are you required to ride with a helmet when you travel to a state where it is required? (in other words, does your "home state's" helmet requirement go with you?)
MA has a helmet law and NH doesn't. Several years ago a rider and his pillion child pulled off the highway just before the MA border to put on his helmet. They got struck from behind! He was seriously injured and his kid was killed.
Is that what's called irony or stupidity?

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post #8 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 7:54 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
NH has a helmet law and MA doesn't. Several years ago a rider and his pillion child pulled off the highway just before the MA border to put on his helmet. They got struck from behind! He was seriously injured and his kid was killed.
Is that what's called irony or stupidity?
Neither. "Unfortunate".
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post #9 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:14 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
MA has a helmet law and NH doesn't. Several years ago a rider and his pillion child pulled off the highway just before the MA border to put on his helmet. They got struck from behind! He was seriously injured and his kid was killed.
Is that what's called irony or stupidity?
The NH rider should sue the state of MA for not providing safe pull-off areas for the purpose of donning helmets. Like the "park and ride" lots some states provide, to encourage carpooling.

I'm sure an attorney would take that case...

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post #10 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:18 am
 
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
The NH rider should sue the state of MA for not providing safe pull-off areas for the purpose of donning helmets.
Without an emoticon, I can't tell. So I ask . . . Are you serious?!?!
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post #11 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 11:20 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Without an emoticon, I can't tell. So I ask . . . Are you serious?!?!
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Joe.

No, I'm not serious. I should have included this: (sarcasm)

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post #12 of 66 Old Aug 11th, 2006, 1:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
MA has a helmet law and NH doesn't. Several years ago a rider and his pillion child pulled off the highway just before the MA border to put on his helmet. They got struck from behind! He was seriously injured and his kid was killed.
Is that what's called irony or stupidity?
That's terrible and unfortunate - but:

I'd have to go with 100% stupidity - bordering on child endangerment. He should have had his helmet on for the kid's safety in the first place. All it takes is big bug or small rock in the head and it's all over....

If you want to kill your self that's fine - but taking a passenger - especially your flesh and blood - and not doing the utmost to protect their well being is just plain negligent.


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post #13 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 5:14 pm
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I read the articles from time to time about the various states in the US and their helmet laws - to wear or not to wear. I pose this question - Is the wearing of seatbelts not compulsory in the USA? If so, why not helmets as well? It's a no brainer! Even in South Africa it's compulsory to wear a helmet. The guys that suffer head injuries here are the ones who have accidents wearing $10 helmets for $10 heads - the HD guys are the worst with their array of stupid skid lids that would come off if the wind blows too hard! I realize that your constitution allows for freedom of choice, but some people can't choose the right thing, so the choice should be made for them. It would save an ocean of money all round!

Just my 2c worth!

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post #14 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 6:09 pm Thread Starter
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Manditory Helmet Laws are only a matter of time. The Feds will mandate it just like seatbelts. In order to get your Federal Highway Funding, they will mandate helmet laws. They will happen, and the AMA, ABATE, and anyone else will fail at any attempt to have them repealed.


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post #15 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 6:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman
I read the articles from time to time about the various states in the US and their helmet laws - to wear or not to wear. I pose this question - Is the wearing of seatbelts not compulsory in the USA? If so, why not helmets as well? It's a no brainer! Even in South Africa it's compulsory to wear a helmet. The guys that suffer head injuries here are the ones who have accidents wearing $10 helmets for $10 heads - the HD guys are the worst with their array of stupid skid lids that would come off if the wind blows too hard! I realize that your constitution allows for freedom of choice, but some people can't choose the right thing, so the choice should be made for them. It would save an ocean of money all round!

Just my 2c worth!

Allen


First the article is full of unsubtranciated conjecture.. the idea that the number of motorcycle injuries at the hospital has anything to do with not wearing helmets instead of the FACT that the number of riders is going up every year is absurd. And throwing out tan amount that a non hemeted rider cost more to treat than a helmeted one is just unbelievable to me. I know someone that crashed last week, wearing a fullface helmet, as he bounced his head hit a stump a highway brush crew left, smashed his helment, and now he has numerous metal plates and screws in his skull, will be spending several months in the hospital but should be OK,, had he not had a helment on he would be dead.

Also consider that the IIHS studies(International Institute for Highway Safety, the same people that helped get many of the helment laws in place many years ago, and who's head said, back in the 80s, "Within 10 years I will ban motorcyeles from the street of America") shows that unhelmeted riders die much more often and usually at the scene of the crash they would in fact cost the medical facilities and health insurance companies less money as funerals cost much less than medical attention. I personally wonder if that is why there are no helmet laws in may places, perhaps the insurance companies no longer fight to keep the laws in place because it saves them money.
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post #16 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 6:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Manditory Helmet Laws are only a matter of time. The Feds will mandate it just like seatbelts. In order to get your Federal Highway Funding, they will mandate helmet laws. They will happen, and the AMA, ABATE, and anyone else will fail at any attempt to have them repealed.
If the states buckle to the blackmail yes that will be a fact (and they almost always do, except for Iowa) Just like they caved on the BAC thing being .08.
Sad fact is the Fed has no Federal highway funds until the states send it to them, so with hold the funds and watch the bully that just got stood up to look for help from those standing around or slink away.
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post #17 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 8:14 pm
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I'm probably gonna regret this question, but do you think the BAC limit should be higher than 0.08?

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post #18 of 66 Old Aug 13th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Here's the part of your point I disgree with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman
I realize that your constitution allows for freedom of choice, but some people can't choose the right thing, so the choice should be made for them.
I want to be allowed the freedom to make my own choices: good, bad, smart, dumb, just plain stupid, etc. Who is to decide that my decision is not "the right one" -- a government official/bureaucrat? That should solely be my choice.

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post #19 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I'm probably gonna regret this question, but do you think the BAC limit should be higher than 0.08?
I think that it should be whatever each state deems for their people.
I do not drink myself, be 20 years in Feb 07 personal choice. (I know it's hard to believe, but my manners tend to fade when I drink )
However I did watch the whole thing unfold, and the way that they subverted the 10th amendment of the US Constitution, was what concerned me.
MADD received a no go, in 31 states before they went to the federal level.
(Now strickly from a logistics and operational point of view, it was the best move they could have made. Concentrate your resources to the point of most effect.)
So instead of having to battle on 31 fronts they only needed to deal with one. I watched it very close and wrote an article about it when it happened. (I saw it as the slippery slope deal)
I don't agree with the EPA mandates for motorcycles either (yet what I ride is in compliance), as I pass coal buckets billowing clouds of black smoke.
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post #20 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:28 am
 
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It should be your choice as long as that choice does not affect other people. When it does, some type of consensus needs to be reached.
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You got to be Kidding!! The damn fool rides with a kid on the bike with no helmet and he sues the State for his stupidity!!
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post #22 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:50 am
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Seats Again??

Anyone have any experience with the Hartco seats?? I need one for my 05 with that POS seat..
Thanks
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post #23 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:53 am
 
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Anyone have any experience with the Hartco seats?? I need one for my 05 with that POS seat..
YIKES?! Where did that question come from? Ouch! . . . that hurt my brain.
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post #24 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 9:59 am
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helmet law

How about some laws requiring smokers to waive treatment if they don't have health insurance and contract lung cancer. Obese people without coverage should sign a waivier in the drive thru at McDonalds...and what about the promiscous men and women.....waive your right to get treated for STD's if you engage in un protected(wear a helmet guys) sex and don't have health insurance.

Where does it end?

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post #25 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 10:07 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byke33
How about some laws requiring smokers to waive treatment if they don't have health insurance and contract lung cancer. Obese people without coverage should sign a waivier in the drive thru at McDonalds...and what about the promiscous men and women.....waive your right to get treated for STD's if you engage in un protected(wear a helmet guys) sex and don't have health insurance.
Hey! I like this guy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by byke33
Where does it end?

Ron
Oh. You were kidding. Sorry.

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post #26 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 10:17 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
If the states buckle to the blackmail yes that will be a fact (and they almost always do, except for Iowa) Just like they caved on the BAC thing being .08.
Sad fact is the Fed has no Federal highway funds until the states send it to them, so with hold the funds and watch the bully that just got stood up to look for help from those standing around or slink away.
Rock
FYI, here are some of the things that are under review for Highway Funding "blackmail".
  • Manditory Helmet Laws
  • Ban Cell Phone Use in Vehicles (looks like the handsfree compromise is gaining the most support)
  • EPA Exhaust Emmission Regulations for Motorcycles
  • BAC lowered to .05 (from .08)
  • Increased Traffic Enforcement in Federal Grant Locations (i.e., areas which have a large number of traffic accidents)


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post #27 of 66 Old Aug 14th, 2006, 4:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
It should be your choice as long as that choice does not affect other people. When it does, some type of consensus needs to be reached.

EVERYTHING anyone does affects others, no man is an island, so how is this possible?

It should be as long as your choice will not physically harm another or another's property it should be no one else's business.

Insurance going up and medical costs and lawsuits being a consideration is a crock because the government has created the medical cost problems and the sue happy courts to start with.
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post #28 of 66 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 3:47 am
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That answer makes more sense, Rock. I never worried about the BAC thing because I rarely drink, and never if I'm going to be riding/driving. As such, I have little tolerance for such blatant stupidity, regardless of whatever number limit they put on it. But I can see the slippery slope argument all too clearly.

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post #29 of 66 Old Aug 15th, 2006, 8:17 am
 
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I agree
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post #30 of 66 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 10:13 am
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And on and on and on!

Originally Posted by meese
We did have one rider go down when his bungees failed and caused things to get jammed in his rear wheel.

That is exactly what happened to the owner of the company I used to work for; this past March at Daytona Bike Week his jacket (bungeed to his rear seat) came loose, tangled in the rear wheel, and he crashed. Serious head injury (no helmet); unable to speak, still in rehab, and will probably not work again.__________________
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Sorry to hijack your post, but there it is!! Make wearing a proper helmet compulsory and this guy would most probalbly have been back at work the next day with only his image damaged!

I would rather be riding my bike and thinking about God than sitting in Church thinking about my bike!

Regards
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post #31 of 66 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 11:35 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman
...Sorry to hijack your post, but there it is!! Make wearing a proper helmet compulsory and this guy would most probalbly have been back at work the next day with only his image damaged!
Or maybe they could spend time in the MSF BRC and cover things like how to strap stuff to a bike. For some it's common sense; for others it's something they haven't thought about before.

I still can't support mandatory helmet laws. We have mandatory seat belt laws, there are fines for not wearing them, but some people still won't wear them. Their choice; they choose poorly, have an accident, and suffer more (except for that ONE instance where somebody will be ejected from a car and land safely somehow, right before the car crashes into a dynamite factory and explodes ).

The person I refer to is in his late 50s; been riding ALL kinds of bikes from a very young age to the present. A millionaire several times over, running a successful IT consulting firm. In his garage are everything from dirt bikes to HDs to a couple of expensive custom bikes. He knows about helmets but chooses poorly. In all that experience somehow he didn't know about (or didn't think about) what would happen if his jacket became unstrapped from his bike. Undoubtedly he'd have been much better off with a helmet -- can't argue that. As for me, I'll wear one.

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post #32 of 66 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 9:57 pm
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I think we shouldn't need a helmet law, as most folks should be intelligent enough to make the right decision. Obviously, that's not the case, so we're forever stuck arguing personal freedoms versus government mandates. Unfortunately, there is no clear solution to this problem until everyone starts taking direct responsibility for their own actions and the consequences. I'm not holding my breath.

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post #33 of 66 Old Aug 19th, 2006, 6:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I think we shouldn't need a helmet law, as most folks should be intelligent enough to make the right decision. Obviously, that's not the case, so we're forever stuck arguing personal freedoms versus government mandates. Unfortunately, there is no clear solution to this problem until everyone starts taking direct responsibility for their own actions and the consequences. I'm not holding my breath.
Way back in the day that "they" made it compulsory to wear a helmet in South Africa, I remember the bitchin' and moanin'. Most people did wear helmets anyway - only the "tough guys" chose not to. It seems to be the same in the US - only the "tough guys" choose not to wear helmets. How many LTers don't wear a helmet? I'll bet not one! Ask that question of the HD guys and the answer will be different. Go figure!

I would rather be riding my bike and thinking about God than sitting in Church thinking about my bike!

Regards
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post #34 of 66 Old Aug 19th, 2006, 6:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
MA has a helmet law and NH doesn't. Several years ago a rider and his pillion child pulled off the highway just before the MA border to put on his helmet. They got struck from behind! He was seriously injured and his kid was killed.
Is that what's called irony or stupidity?
Well, if he pulled off the road, I can't say that it was stupidity. Maybe negligence for failing to pull far enough off the road.

A high price to pay for negligence, however. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen drivers speed up and swerve right for someone stopped on the side of the road. It's like the price of admission to the HUA club!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #35 of 66 Old Aug 19th, 2006, 6:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
...."I know it's hard to believe, but my manners tend to fade when I drink...." Rock
??????

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #36 of 66 Old Aug 19th, 2006, 7:07 am
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Originally Posted by hig4s
....I personally wonder if that is why there are no helmet laws in may places. Perhaps the insurance companies no longer fight to keep the laws in place because it saves them money.
Interesting point. I've listened to the "big-government bureaucrats" preach for years about all the money that smoking costs society (as they continue to tax cigs).

Does it really cost more when someone dies years earlier from cancer?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #37 of 66 Old Aug 19th, 2006, 9:48 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
The NH rider should sue the state of MA for not providing safe pull-off areas for the purpose of donning helmets. Like the "park and ride" lots some states provide, to encourage carpooling.

I'm sure an attorney would take that case...
They're called "EXITS", there are a lot of them.

See any number of other threads for my arguments against helmet laws. no one here is going to change their minds so I'm minimizing my arguments this time...you guys are preaching to the choir.

The social burden argument will hold water as soon as you start arguing for waivers at McDonalds and Burger King, banning tobacco and alcohol altogether, and requiring life long physical fitness programs...all of which would save you FAR more money than helmets. Millions of people condemning their kids to an early death by teaching them to live fat, cancerous, heart diseased lives and you guys want to use a very small percentage of public cost to help keep talk of limiting the rights of motorcyclists socially acceptable. All because you self-righteously feel those who take more risk than you do should not be allowed to make that choice. Far more could be saved by banning motorcycles altogether. Many a fender-bender in a Honda Civc with cuts and bruises would be fatal to a motorcyclist no matter what gear they are wearing. What is the social burden of motorcycles in general if you put every motorcyclist that was injured in a car in the same situation?

Blah blah blah...argue that people SHOULD wear helmets...I'll support that, I wear one most of the time, have ridden for over 30 years now with 2 or 3 "get-offs" and had one on every time (it only mattered once) because I was riding in circumstances where I would not have ridden without one.
So go ahead and keep trying to educate people on why they should wear one but PLEASE stop arguing for the anti-motorcycle crowd and stop working with the social engineering set. Start supporting motorcyclist's rights, even or ESPECIALLY those rights you don't like...that is the most believable form of support (BTW, those who degrade the ACLU would be well served to learn that lesson...you only truly support rights if you defend those who use them in ways that you most abhorr)

I would be very surprised if a large percentage of those arguing FOR those laws are conservatives who go off long and loud whenever the liberals try to pass a law you don't like that is designed to protect you against yourselves...those of you who fit that description are hypocrites in my eyes.

OK, so much for limiting my argument...you'll have to settle for my limiting the number of posts on the subject.


That's my whole argument on social burden in a nutshell.
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post #38 of 66 Old Sep 15th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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Since others can think for me...

Since some people are too stupid to think for themselves, I think my boss should decide for us ... outlaw street bikes or riding bikes on streets since "only an idiot would ride a motorcycle". Not sure why he keeps me around.
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post #39 of 66 Old Sep 15th, 2006, 10:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron82much
They're called "EXITS", there are a lot of them...
Ron,

The bottom of page 1 and top of page 2 of this thread show that my remark was meant as sarcasm. I don't really think the state should provide "motorcycle helmet-donning areas" at state lines. I was trying to be funny (and make a point at the same time) but I didn't use an emoticon to indicate that.

Thanks for your discussion. I think we're on the same page.

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post #40 of 66 Old Sep 16th, 2006, 11:23 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
The NH rider should sue the state of MA for not providing safe pull-off areas for the purpose of donning helmets. Like the "park and ride" lots some states provide, to encourage carpooling.
I was crusin' around the MA NH border this summer trying to find the border sign for a photo when a chopper rider went "potatoeing" by crossing from MA to NH. He didn't even slow down as he reached around, pulled his half helmet off the back rack, popped it on his head, and roared off into the NH mist. Now that's safety.

Now for something completely different. Reuters reports British researcher Ian Walker from the Department of Psychology of Britain's University of Bath found drivers were up to two times more likely to get close when passing cyclists wearing helmets than when overtaking bare-headed pedalers. From the study 'Walker found drivers passed an average of 3.3 inches (8.5 cm) closer to cyclists with a helmet than without... As part of his experiment, Walker also donned a blond wig and found drivers gave him an average of 5.5 inches more space when they passed what appeared to be a female cyclist."

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...1-ArticlePage2

Although the study relates to bicycles it conjures up a Phythonesque helmet law with tattooed bikers chanting "Blonde wigs save lives".

Motor On ,/'


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post #41 of 66 Old Sep 18th, 2006, 12:23 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Ron,

The bottom of page 1 and top of page 2 of this thread show that my remark was meant as sarcasm. I don't really think the state should provide "motorcycle helmet-donning areas" at state lines. I was trying to be funny (and make a point at the same time) but I didn't use an emoticon to indicate that.

Thanks for your discussion. I think we're on the same page.
It's been a while since that discussion so I can't rightly say what I was thinking (not that I ever CAN say that too well ) but I believe I knew you weren't serious...I, as usual, took advantange of an opening to make my less-than-welcome-on-this-forum anti-big-brother stance known.

In any case it's good to be reminded that not everyone here thinks that their chosen threshold of risk should be everyone's.
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post #42 of 66 Old Sep 18th, 2006, 12:32 pm
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Talking Helmet Law

I think anyone with an IQ less that 100 should be allowed not have to wear a helmet.

That way we wouldn't have any arguments.
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post #43 of 66 Old Sep 18th, 2006, 2:11 pm
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I’ve stayed out of the whole helmet law debate because I don’t have a solution to the problem. I see and appreciate both sides of the argument. Personal freedom and the right to choose should be protected. I don’t like the government telling me what I have to do and don’t have to do in areas that should be common sense.

On the flip side, I also don’t want to pay for someone who makes a poor choice. What are the realistic options? I’ve heard someone say, “Sign a waver upon licensure.” Ok…so you sign the waver and then can’t afford your medical payments. Now what? Do we, as a society, leave you to suffer and die? (I am about to make a politically incorrect statement here, so those of you who are offended, I apologize) If you make the choice not to wear a helmet and you die from that choice, maybe that’s just Natural Selection in action.

Even before my accident this past march, I have always practiced ATGATT. There is no doubt that the proper gear (including HELMET) not only reduced the extent of my injuries, they more than likely saved my life. So, to me, while personal freedom issues are important, the actual helmet laws are not. I treat helmet laws the same way I treat the “Strange Laws” still on the books in some areas such as, “In North Carolina it is unlawful to use an elephant to plow a cotton field.” It just doesn’t affect me.

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post #44 of 66 Old Sep 18th, 2006, 2:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehall
I think anyone with an IQ less that 100 should be allowed not have to wear a helmet.

That way we wouldn't have any arguments.
I think we are seeing this happening... It is known as Natural Selection!!!

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post #45 of 66 Old Sep 18th, 2006, 6:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron82much
...I, as usual, took advantange of an opening to make my less-than-welcome-on-this-forum anti-big-brother stance known.

In any case it's good to be reminded that not everyone here thinks that their chosen threshold of risk should be everyone's.
Ron,

Your anti "nanny state" comments are much appreciated and always welcome--at least by this forum member!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #46 of 66 Old Sep 19th, 2006, 2:53 pm
 
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Ya know this goes around and around,,,

First I agree, that the Gov. should NOT tell people weather or not they need to wear a helmet.... Learning to ride and other peoples stories should be enough to convince you to wear one.....

I started riding in probably 1964,, but never owned or wore a helmet until 1976 when I got in a state that required one,,,That and maturing made me realize that they are the best piece of safety gear made....Now I'm a 24/7
ATGATT person... BUT i think you should be the one to decide........

And the most unbelievable part of this is the whiners about money.... The amount of money spent by the tax payer on motorcycle accidents is so small......Its NOTHING compared to the people injured or killed from head trauma in car accidents,,, How bout fat people's long term care for heart attacks!!!!! The shared cost on us poor tax payers is what 15 maybe 20 cents each???

Anyway, I can't wait for next month so we can do this again!! ......Pete
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post #47 of 66 Old Sep 19th, 2006, 3:31 pm
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My state requires helmets. I've ridden to states that don't, but I leave the helmet on. Studies show that a helmeted rider that crashes has a 29% greater survival rate than someone without a helmet. To me, someone choosing not to wear one is a fool.

The "I should have a right to choose" argument should apply to what you do in your home, period. Where do you draw the line on choice when it comes to laws? Want to fly a plane but you don't have a license? When you're costing me money or making my child have a 4 hour wait at a hospital emergency room because there are 14 doctors, nurses and other staff tending to a head injured motorcycle rider that came in 10 minutes before us, then I'd tend to say: "Kiss off". (This actually happened)
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post #48 of 66 Old Sep 20th, 2006, 1:28 am
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Don't forget smoking. That has to cost each of us a bundle.

Hm, maybe they should tax fast food the way they tax cigarettes? People would still eat it, and the gov't would still spend it all, but at least they could say "we're doing it for your own good".

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post #49 of 66 Old Sep 20th, 2006, 4:28 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Ron,

The bottom of page 1 and top of page 2 of this thread show that my remark was meant as sarcasm. I don't really think the state should provide "motorcycle helmet-donning areas" at state lines. I was trying to be funny (and make a point at the same time) but I didn't use an emoticon to indicate that.

Thanks for your discussion. I think we're on the same page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron82much
It's been a while since that discussion so I can't rightly say what I was thinking (not that I ever CAN say that too well ) but I believe I knew you weren't serious...I, as usual, took advantange of an opening to make my less-than-welcome-on-this-forum anti-big-brother stance known...
Right -- I revisited this thread after some time had passed; saw your comments, and wanted to offer the (above) comments.

If you're anti-Big Brother, then we need to talk. It's a somewhat-common theme I get on my soap box about, from time to time. We'll have to talk about that later because I need to go -- the black helicopters are outside my house again.

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post #50 of 66 Old Sep 20th, 2006, 8:33 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
"Treatment for severe head injuries cost on average $75,000 to
$100,000, and hospitals stays can range from days to weeks, sometimes
followed by months of rehabilitation, Miller said. "

"The difference between a patient who was wearing a helmet and one who
wasn't is about $20,000, Broering said."


so it only costs 20k more to fix someone with head injuries riding
without a helmet than it costs to fix someone with head injuries that
wore a helmet?

sure doesn't seem like the helmet is doing as much good as we would
like to think......

You would think wearing a helmet would prevent a ton more than 20% or
less injury costs and damage to your noggin! I mean 20k ain't squat in
a horspistol

sure does not make the argument any better. oh wait maybe it does.....

No wonder the insurance industry likes those to ride without a helmet,
I'm sure the death increase is higher for helmet less riders, this way
overall the insurance industry saves money, it's much cheaper to bury
one than it is to fix them!

Ain't no way I'm riding without a helmet!

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