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post #1 of 20 Old Oct 18th, 2009, 11:28 am Thread Starter
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Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

I cant get to mine very easy and was wondering if anyone knows the type/make of OEM battery in a 07?

Is it Gel/AGM/Flooded and is it made by Yuasa?

Just trying to figure out if I am self inflicting a slow destruction of my battery by using the Battery Tender on it these last three years?

I guess my previous thread on finding a PC 680 for 115 to the door where I found this charger http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...f-p-16133.html

If you root around on their page there is some good reading. I found this article on De-sulfation http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...hod-unique.pdf

So now I wonder what I have done, if anything to my OEM battery with my Battery Tender.

Anyone know enough about this article to comment if it is "true up" or "selling propaganda" ?

Man I can not believe at 53 years old I need schooling on batteries

Lee
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post #2 of 20 Old Oct 18th, 2009, 3:09 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Lee,

The OEM battery is the GEL type. I read the article and gee I have 5+ years on my original battery and I did nothing but ride the bike, no charger, no tender. I think the article has merit and that is true about sulphation but with batteries I think it is a crap shoot. Some (same brand) last a long time and others a short time. I suppose the technique to eliminate the sulphide crystals is sound but will it help a marginal battery? I think not. Just too many variables in battery manufacture to say any one thing will always work to lengthen the life.

John
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post #3 of 20 Old Oct 18th, 2009, 4:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Lee,

The OEM battery is the GEL type. I read the article and gee I have 5+ years on my original battery and I did nothing but ride the bike, no charger, no tender. I think the article has merit and that is true about sulphation but with batteries I think it is a crap shoot. Some (same brand) last a long time and others a short time. I suppose the technique to eliminate the sulphide crystals is sound but will it help a marginal battery? I think not. Just too many variables in battery manufacture to say any one thing will always work to lengthen the life.
I am overloaded on reading for sure. One thing I am sure of is the PC680 is the correct type of battery for the LT in design. It is a Starting Battery as compared to a Deep Cycle.

Seems there are things you can do to preserve them. First thing I see from all my reading is there is a difference for AGM/Gell/Flooded battery charging requirements. Not only in Amp but in "stages" of charge concern how many Volts are applied and when in the charging process.

It also has to do with Climate/Temp. Seems battery's like it in the 75-77 range and last longest both being used, and stored at that temp.

I am hard on the bike climate wise as it gets run all year when possible. That means it could go down to 5 or 10 and I will ride it or it could sit for a snow storm for 2 weeks till the road clears and then I expect it to start. So my riding temps are in the 100-10 degree area. Not the best for a battery.

Anyway it was a nice exercise in Battery Education and it did confirm on all my searches that if you have a few vehicles it pays to have a modern, multiple Amp, multiple Type charger.

Unless your blessed with mild temps year round like some of you

Then a Tender may not be needed

Oh, my 03 Turbo PT Cruiser has it's OEM battery still.

I did learn how to test a battery correctly, full charge, then at rest after 12 hours.

Lee
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post #4 of 20 Old Oct 18th, 2009, 8:56 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

I was talking to Odyssey tech support some time ago, I was told to use the charger below for PC680: (I was also told not to use any other charger)

http://www.portablepower.com/odyssey...-1b-p-801.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
I cant get to mine very easy and was wondering if anyone knows the type/make of OEM battery in a 07?

Is it Gel/AGM/Flooded and is it made by Yuasa?

Just trying to figure out if I am self inflicting a slow destruction of my battery by using the Battery Tender on it these last three years?

I guess my previous thread on finding a PC 680 for 115 to the door where I found this charger http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...f-p-16133.html

If you root around on their page there is some good reading. I found this article on De-sulfation http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...hod-unique.pdf

So now I wonder what I have done, if anything to my OEM battery with my Battery Tender.

Anyone know enough about this article to comment if it is "true up" or "selling propaganda" ?

Man I can not believe at 53 years old I need schooling on batteries

Matt Kas

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post #5 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 6:31 am
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
I am overloaded on reading for sure. One thing I am sure of is the PC680 is the correct type of battery for the LT in design. It is a Starting Battery as compared to a Deep Cycle.

Seems there are things you can do to preserve them. First thing I see from all my reading is there is a difference for AGM/Gell/Flooded battery charging requirements. Not only in Amp but in "stages" of charge concern how many Volts are applied and when in the charging process.

It also has to do with Climate/Temp. Seems battery's like it in the 75-77 range and last longest both being used, and stored at that temp.

I am hard on the bike climate wise as it gets run all year when possible. That means it could go down to 5 or 10 and I will ride it or it could sit for a snow storm for 2 weeks till the road clears and then I expect it to start. So my riding temps are in the 100-10 degree area. Not the best for a battery.

Anyway it was a nice exercise in Battery Education and it did confirm on all my searches that if you have a few vehicles it pays to have a modern, multiple Amp, multiple Type charger.

Unless your blessed with mild temps year round like some of you

Then a Tender may not be needed

Oh, my 03 Turbo PT Cruiser has it's OEM battery still.

I did learn how to test a battery correctly, full charge, then at rest after 12 hours.
The biggest difference is between the gel and AGM/Flooded. The GEL battery has a lower voltage tolerance than the AGM/Flooded, as the AGM/Flooded battery is very very very close to having the same charge profile. IOW, if you use an AGM/Flooded charger on a gel battery, you will over-charge the gel battery.

On-charge voltage (max) for a gel should be around 13.9 and 14.4-14.6 for the AGM/Flooded. As far as the "special" charger for the PC680, don't "buy" into their BS, go buy a charger that is equipped for the Flooded/AGM/GEL batteries and you will be ok.

As far as ambient temps, all batteries whether deep cyle or starting, are rated and tested at room temperature. Any deviance from that, will alter your starting CCA's and reserve capacity, most of the time you will never know the difference until you start getting into the extreme temps, at and below freezing or above 115F.

If your bike, or any other seasonal piece of equipment sits idle during the off-season, should be tendered during its' dormancy to help maintain voltage and to help keep the battery from being sulfated.

And yes, to properly test a battery, it must be fully charged and fully cooled before testing. A good rule of thumb, if your bike (or anything else for that matter) fails to start under normal starting conditions and your battery is at least 3 years old, replace it. I don't care what the warranty states, they aren't worth the paper they are written on and they are all sales gimmicks. Warranties do not dictate battery quality.

If you are looking for a cranking battery, look for the CCA rating as that has the most stringent testing and is tested at 0F, you may also see HCA, MCA and CA, all of those are tested at closer to room temperature.

Cranking batteries should have more plates per cell, a deep cycle battery should have thicker plates (for reserve capacity)

Brett
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post #6 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 9:43 am Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpr1998
On-charge voltage (max) for a gel should be around 13.9 and 14.4-14.6 for the AGM/Flooded. As far as the "special" charger for the PC680, don't "buy" into their BS, go buy a charger that is equipped for the Flooded/AGM/GEL batteries and you will be ok.
Thank you and everything you say is correct according to what I have read.

I think the Multiple type Charger is the ticket. It is why I bought one as I do not think a Battery Tender is the correct device any longer. As far as a special battery charger, yes I think you need to match it to your Battery type and I guess was my whole point. I don't want to buy 2 or 3 chargers for my different batteries.

Just think it is a topic that people need to think about as these different battery compositions are available and have different charging requirements then one may think.

In my case on the HD the Battery Tender was fine. I have been charging my BMW OEM Gel battery with the Battery Tender. Don't know what I may have done but will see when I have a specific charger for that Gel Battery.

Lee
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post #7 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 12:45 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Lee

Why are you saying the battery tender is bad for GEL batteries? I haven't checked what the output voltage is, but I'm assuming you've found that it will over "tend" a GEL battery?

I hope this is in error, as I have three of these babies tending GEL batteries on all my motorcycles. YIKES!

Pete

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post #8 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 3:30 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRodPete
Lee

Why are you saying the battery tender is bad for GEL batteries? I haven't checked what the output voltage is, but I'm assuming you've found that it will over "tend" a GEL battery?

I hope this is in error, as I have three of these babies tending GEL batteries on all my motorcycles. YIKES!

Pete
Pete,

I am not trying to say anything for sure but from my reading the Battery Tender may not be the best for longevity of Gel batteries.

Here is another link http://www.batteryfaq.org/

I am just trying to muddle through and listen to others who are more knowledgeable. I do not think the Battery Tender is the right choice for a GEl battery. Possibly due to over cooking it. However I never leave my charger on longer then to hit the Green light solid of full charge and then remove it.

I think pkpr1998 is spot on in his statement.

I know I did not like the idea of buying another charger but one trickle charger will no longer do it for me.

Still need to look up the specs on the Delltran site for my Battery Tender that is probably 6 years old by now.

I like the new charger I have coming as it is selectable for all Battery types, and selectable for 2,4,8 AMP charging times.

With the cost of Battery's going up and up even compared to 2-3 years ago I want to do the best I can for the ones I am replacing.

Now 115 into 3 years is not bad but would be better at 5 years which the the PC680 says is its lifetime.

Lee
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post #9 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 5:56 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

They do make a battery tender for a gel cell.

Just Go
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post #10 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 6:04 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

I still have the original battery in my 2006 LT. (4 years of riding)
The Battery Tender is on it all the time it is sitting, including all winter.

So far, so good!

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post #11 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 7:05 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Lee,

If you contact Deltran direct they will tell you the correct part number for their Battery Tender that is specifically designed for the BMW Gel batteries. If you go to BMW and buy a Battery Tender from BMW parts guess what you are going to get? A rebadged Deltran unit. Only since they have added the cool little BMW rondel it costs twice as much!

I've had my Deltran for the Gel battery on my bike when not in use, sometimes for months when I deploy, and I am going on 5 years with no problems. My original acid battery only lasted 3 and frequently needed to be jumped if it sat a week. As you have probably read, the LT does some bad things when you try to run it with a weak battery.

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post #12 of 20 Old Oct 19th, 2009, 10:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

All good stuff guys.

My thing is I am now moving from a BMW GEL battery to the PC680. It is a AGM type battery so for sure the Battery Tender is not the right tool for it.

I am only going on what I have read concerning charge voltages, and then tender state voltage which appears to be the secret to battery longevity.

I too have used the Battery Tender for years with no problems I know of. I believed it would not cook a battery and still believe that. I think charger literature likes to take shots at competitors and are ambiguous as to who they are. I am not sure you can buy a trickle charger in this day and age that does not go over to a tender state at a pre-set voltage.

The issue is what is that voltage that it switches to tender state, and what type of battery it is attached to.

I just wanted to hear peoples thoughts and see if I was looking at this right.

Between the battery literature and the charger literature there is a bunch to sift through.

Especially since I could have went the rest of my life in battery ignorance and not felt bad about it.

Lee
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post #13 of 20 Old Oct 20th, 2009, 8:46 am
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF

My thing is I am now moving from a BMW GEL battery to the PC680. It is a AGM type battery so for sure the Battery Tender is not the right tool for it.
Not according to Deltran.

from their website description of the Battery Tender Jr.:
"Perfect for all lead-acid, flooded or sealed maintenance free batteries (AGM and gel cell)."

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post #14 of 20 Old Oct 20th, 2009, 9:20 am Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukey33
Not according to Deltran.

from their website description of the Battery Tender Jr.:
"Perfect for all lead-acid, flooded or sealed maintenance free batteries (AGM and gel cell)."
The links and Science do not lie.

All three types of battery's have distinct charging voltages and long term tender voltage maintenance requirements.

Not into fussing over it.

If Deltran says that, then it must be so.

However my Battery Tender has no selectable voltage or battery type selectors on it at all.

I am just going to match my charger to my battery type the most efficient way I can. And that way is to have a selectable charger for the battery types I use as I have all three types at this time.

We are all big boys and you put your money down and take your chances.

You can even go a step further as Aviation PC680 battery's have yet another type of charger to be used with them.

Who really knows if the money and effort is worth it?

I am betting on the Science of the last link I posted that different battery's need different charging methods.

Your experience may vary..............

Lee
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post #15 of 20 Old Oct 20th, 2009, 4:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKas
I was talking to Odyssey tech support some time ago, I was told to use the charger below for PC680: (I was also told not to use any other charger)

http://www.portablepower.com/odyssey...-1b-p-801.html
Yes Matt it took a bit but I rooted out the info from their web site.

The Pdf lists the approved chargers for a PC680.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ODYSSEYApproved12VChargers.pdf (77.4 KB, 354 views)

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post #16 of 20 Old Oct 20th, 2009, 8:37 pm
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
The links and Science do not lie.

All three types of battery's have distinct charging voltages and long term tender voltage maintenance requirements.

Not into fussing over it.

If Deltran says that, then it must be so.

However my Battery Tender has no selectable voltage or battery type selectors on it at all.

I am just going to match my charger to my battery type the most efficient way I can. And that way is to have a selectable charger for the battery types I use as I have all three types at this time.


Your experience may vary..............

http://batterytender.com/selection_guide.php

Just FYI it looks like the voltage and battery type is handled in their software. You don't have to select it, it does that for you.

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post #17 of 20 Old Oct 21st, 2009, 6:32 am
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
http://batterytender.com/selection_guide.php

Just FYI it looks like the voltage and battery type is handled in their software. You don't have to select it, it does that for you.
Interesting, a charger that knows if it is a gel or Flooded/AGM!

I'm around 1K-15K chargers all the time, and they can't even figure out what battery they are charging, it just knows it is a XX voltage and a certain AH Capacity battery. I have to spec the charger to the battery, if it is a "special" battery, then I install special modules on the battery to communicate with the battery for its' certain profile.

I nothing about the batterytender charger, but my best guess regarding the software issue is that the charger goes through a cycle where it reads the voltage, and adjusts the charge profile from there, otherwise there is no way the charger knows which battery it is charging.

Brett
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post #18 of 20 Old Oct 21st, 2009, 7:50 am Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpr1998
Interesting, a charger that knows if it is a gel or Flooded/AGM!

I'm around 1K-15K chargers all the time, and they can't even figure out what battery they are charging, it just knows it is a XX voltage and a certain AH Capacity battery. I have to spec the charger to the battery, if it is a "special" battery, then I install special modules on the battery to communicate with the battery for its' certain profile.

I nothing about the batterytender charger, but my best guess regarding the software issue is that the charger goes through a cycle where it reads the voltage, and adjusts the charge profile from there, otherwise there is no way the charger knows which battery it is charging.
From what I read all chargers use a 3 step charging process and some go to 5 or more. Most charger company's call them steps and Deltran calls them Algorithms. These are a preset rate for each step.

Now if you can not select the type of Battery manually for battery type then the charger IS battery specific. Or it is using the manufactures best guess for steps in the charging process for a specific type of battery..

This has been why I started this thread as people have a lot of opinions on chargers and I am finding out that the 3 types of battery's we are dealing with have specific charging requirements in the charging steps.

I also believe as you said same pool of battery's will yield, a long life, a short life, and a median life no matter what we do charging them, almost like a FD

With a 2 year warranty I want to make sure I don't do anything to have any issues if the need arises for warranty coverage. Of course I would expect any battery from any manufacturer to last 2 years.

Lee
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post #19 of 20 Old Oct 26th, 2009, 5:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

Since I have

this almost to death and have not swayed anyone's take on battery tenders (other then my own), "The Hits Keep Coming".

They come today Battery packed charger in there. So gathering burn stuff and pull the charger out and it is Odyssey Specific. Damn!

So I call and talk to a guy and what a cool dude he is. So I tell him whats up. I asked while not what I ordered, what will it do? Since it has to do AGM I wanted know about Gel and flooded. And will it drop to lower then 8 AMP? He says hold on. Comes back and said it wont do Gel.

Here is where it gets interesting. He says so you just want the other one that adjusts for all types and I say yes. He then tells me when I get it pull the cover plate off and there is a dip switch inside. He said set them to C for Odyssey, and A for everything else. He said after it was found you could do this, Odyssey started having these guys http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...f-p-16133.html make a sealed one only for them. These guys seem to make a good product and as I said some good reading there.

So the adjustable one is 113 and the Odyssey Only is 111. Hmmmmmmmmmm

Have to say while it was my mistake these guys http://www.batterystuff.com. were well priced and as I have found out willing to share knowledge and customer support was great.

Anyway something I found interesting is someone trying to make a Battery, and a Battery Specific Charger. I really would want no parts of that at all. Not the Charger Manufacturer but Odyssey.

Man, don't want locked into that no way.

Lee
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post #20 of 20 Old Nov 11th, 2009, 3:37 pm Thread Starter
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Location: Harrisburg , PA, USA
Posts: 2,958
Re: Desulfation/Charger/07 Battery Type?

I got my charger about 10 days ago and been busy charging various types of batteries.

It did come set for the Odyssey as was promised. I immediately opened it up and checked and switched it to "all others" and charged a flooded and the BMW Gel.

Here is a pic of the dip switch:



Here are the settings:



I like the charger so far. I just plug it in and set the temp probe in the battery tray and let it have at the car, the BMW Gel, the Tractor, and then to top off the Odyssey.

I have the BMW sitting and I been measuring it at rest in a 65 degree room. It has been pretty solid at 12.74 for a week but I will continue to watch it.

I may pay it forward is someone close needs it and it proves out good.

Lee
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BMW MOA #135959
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