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post #1 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 2:28 am Thread Starter
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new lift for clutch

Hi all
got my new lift, as you can see I cant get the centre stand down with out a block of wood so I will have to cut the side out a bit, I had to also add 5mm to the fixed chock to get it back to the correct angle to hang onto the wheel. I also had to add more plates under the bolts between the table and the nut as they started to pull through and twist the table floor. the only thing I am happy with it is off the ground, I couldn't ride it on its too high off the floor, so with the help of a mate we walked it up using the engine.
so tomorrow I start the clutch replacement, I had my last ride yesterday so I'm glad it was nice for a ride.

Cheers
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Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
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2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #2 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 5:09 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Good luck, Linton. I have been there, done that, but had to do mine on the floor because some a-hole stole my lift a week before the project!

Do you have a hoist located somewhere above the lift? You will need to lift the frame up from the engine, and then support it there to R & R the transmission.

There are several write-ups on replacing the clutch, my favorite is by BlauBeeMr (Col. Kenny Crawford), that were invaluable in the process. I also had the BMW manual plus the Clymer's to get me through.

I am half a planet away, but as close as your keyboard/mouse/screen. Let me know what I can do to help.

Cheers!

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post #3 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 6:01 am Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

thanks tony no I dont, but I haven't stared yet it can still be moved, some of the photo's I saw had the rear up on wheel stands with a block of wood holding up the rear. thought I would go that way, but I have access to a decent A frame if needed as well. I have been delaying this as long as possible but time has now arrived to get the hands dirty

Regards Linton
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and no koalas are not Bears



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post #4 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 6:52 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Wishing you well Linton, at least its off the ground!
My lift is "in transit"...
Let me know if you hear from Munich on parts cost....

Chris
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post #5 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 7:21 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

I have removed the transmission twice for clutch work, and the engine once. Never felt the need for a lift, and in fact think some of the work is harder on a lift than without. I found working on the floor was not difficult (and I was not a young person when I did it). To me, the expense of a lift, and then the storage of it was not justifiable. A lift certainly is not "needed" in any way whatsoever.

I am now 71, and if I still had an LT and it needed work, a lift would not even be considered.

I just do not want anyone thinking they "need" a lift to work on the LT. That is false promotion for the lift suppliers.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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post #6 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 10:31 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

A lift makes it nice for many service related jobs and I love having one in my shop. But Dave is correct that the work can be done with the bike on the floor as well.

As far as the "A-frame" or a cherry picker to pick up the rear of the bike that too is unnecessary. With the front tied off in the vice and a scissor jack (bought from the local auto wrecking yard) supporting the engine you can use a second jack with blocks under the rear sub-frame (saddlebag supports) for when you need to raise the frame to get the transmission out. A word of warning! With the front motor mounts loose you want to only lower the engine a small amount while watching the coolant pipe on top of the cylinder head. You can put the pipe in a bind and break it if you are not careful. This is why it is prudent to lift the back a small amount and lower the engine a small bit to split that difference keeping all of the parts free from damage. There are plenty of pictures on this forum of people doing just this. I would use an additional set of tie-down straps on either side of the rear of the bike for stability (I use the rear seat mount lugs and thread the straps through the bag handles with rags protecting the paint).

Good luck and post some pictures of your job. All experts were novices once in their life, and you will fully appreciate the path you are about to take once it is over and you go for that first ride with that new clutch.


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post #7 of 105 Old Apr 28th, 2014, 5:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

thanks fellas for the great advice, David you are right I have done 125k on this bike and never had a lift till now and got by just fine, my problem is I have had 4 back operations and find it really hard to work off the floor. Ernie thanks I will secure it at the back before I start and print off your words of wisdom to remind me, I am very apprehensive to do this job it may be a little to much for me, but i have nothing but time and you guys to back me up
Chris I am going to phone them today they are probably still catching up from Anzac day long weekend

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #8 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 3:46 am Thread Starter
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started clutch replacement

I had a casual day in the shed and got quite a bit done so far I have found the front of the diff leaking oil, and there is gear oil around the clutch push rod hopefully will get a lot more done tomorrow
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Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
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post #9 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 7:23 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

keep the reports and pics coming Linton! Looks like a big "casual" day!

Chris
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post #10 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 7:47 am
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Re: started clutch replacement

Looks like you need to replace every seal you get close to. All transmission seals, engine rear output seal and O-ring (Get a Viton O-ring!), and FD input seal.

What lift did you get? Be careful if you remove metal from the side flange to clear the center stand! Those side flanges are needed to keep the plate from buckling. It would have been nice if the manufacturer had bent them down instead of up. Those edges are going to be very uncomfortable if you have to lean down against the lift to look up under the bike frame.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #11 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 5:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: started clutch replacement

Thanks David It is an ebay lift probably from china it is shite really I have already cut out the side so i hope it will be alright it has angle iron all the way around the under side so I think-hope it wont bend. (worried) !!! just checked the shed all is well (Phew!!)
Hopefully today I will get the clutch out and see what's what.
my list so far all the seals, swing arm pivot bearings (again), weld up broken exhaust hanger, rear brake pads, the list is growing and my wallet is going to get hammered

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



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2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #12 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 7:29 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Good job Linton. Looks like you need an oil change
Bit of a worry that lift but you have strengthened where needed.
I supported the frame as shown but included some overhead straps
"just in case"
Have fun tinkering.
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post #13 of 105 Old Apr 29th, 2014, 9:56 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilton View Post
Good job Linton. Looks like you need an oil change
Nah mate, mines self lubricating I just top it off every now and then

good tip on the over heads though

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
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post #14 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 2:08 am Thread Starter
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clutch is out

Well another casual day in the shed and the clutch is out, not real good though I need a complete clutch kit various seals, swing arm brgs rear pads battery and a rear tyre $$$$$ Just saying to the wife sounds a lot but I have saved an awful lot of money in 14 yrs by doing all the work thanks to you guy's on the forum
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/lint...deshow/K1200lt

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT

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post #15 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 9:10 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

I assume you are replacing the clutch slave cylinder. If not, you need to. While at it, drill the drain hole in the transmission boss to drain the fluid when the slave fails again.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #16 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 11:40 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Looks good. Just be very careful when you re-install the reverse switch unit as it is very easy to break off the tips on the microswitches.

John
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post #17 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 12:34 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

having done a "few" jobs just like yours.... Sniff.. Sniff.. I miss having fun with Barbara!...

Great job on the pics, keep'em coming...

Hoss
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post #18 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 5:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

thanks guys
Yes slave cyl is on the list Chris (CWS) and I are working on prices at the moment I will save about 500.00 by getting from the states hope it works out, I am having trouble working out the seals for the tranny, what I want are the 3 major seals are these corect
23127705086 Shaft Seal (output)
23122330135 Shaft Seal (Input)
23127705085 Shaft Seal (Input)

also I heard a cracking noise when I lowered the motor, I did it all by myself checked this morning and after a while may have found the problem, how do I fix it? just jack the motor back up or do I have to dismantle it more
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Regards Linton
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and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT

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post #19 of 105 Old Apr 30th, 2014, 7:53 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axle View Post
thanks guys
Yes slave cyl is on the list Chris (CWS) and I are working on prices at the moment I will save about 500.00 by getting from the states hope it works out, I am having trouble working out the seals for the tranny, what I want are the 3 major seals are these corect
23127705086 Shaft Seal (output) Front input 20x32x8
23122330135 Shaft Seal (Input) Output Drive shaft 25x40x6
23127705085 Shaft Seal (Input) Rear input by slave17x28x7
Install depth is very critical on these so measure before you remove the old one. My mantra is "If it ain't leakin' don't mess with it."
also I heard a cracking noise when I lowered the motor, I did it all by myself checked this morning and after a while may have found the problem, how do I fix it? just jack the motor back up or do I have to dismantle it more
Looks like you pulled the TB out of the rubber boot or the air box off the TB hard to tell by the pics.

OK looked again and that its the TB out of the rubber boot. That clamp is a one time use but you can replace it with a worm drive clamp just be careful of placement of the "drive" so it does not interfere with the TB linkage.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #20 of 105 Old May 1st, 2014, 5:26 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Linton, looks/sounds like plenty of seals need to be replaced as part of this job. The engine output shaft sealing O ring is vital to ensuring no oil leakage there, as you know, and needs to be a new 19 x 4 mm Viton item. I've attached an article on seal installation and shaft preparation for your reference. May be worth a read, there are some good tips in there which may assist with reducing the chance of oil leakage and, dare I say it, re-work. Take your time and I'm sure you will make a professional job of the whole project. Cheers, Dennis
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post #21 of 105 Old May 2nd, 2014, 5:22 am
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Re: new lift for clutch


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post #22 of 105 Old May 2nd, 2014, 8:00 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Parts are being ordered for Linton's job, and a bunch of goodies for me too.... going to be an expensive couple of weeks....

at least Linton's lift goes up... here's what happened when I bolted my new one together and tried to get the LT up on it...

no weight on lift..



weight on lift.... no lift!


hmmm, why is it that.... oh... OK...



sigh.... now to dis-assemble again, and try to get that refund....

Chris
Sydney, NSW
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post #23 of 105 Old May 2nd, 2014, 6:43 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Gee Chris hope you get your $35.00 back. That does not look good but at least it happened before the LT was up in the air.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #24 of 105 Old May 2nd, 2014, 7:04 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
Parts are being ordered for Linton's job, and a bunch of goodies for me too.... going to be an expensive couple of weeks....

at least Linton's lift goes up... here's what happened when I bolted my new one together and tried to get the LT up on it...

Let us know what brand lift it was, so others can avoid them.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.

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post #25 of 105 Old May 2nd, 2014, 8:46 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

That Sucks !!!

P.S. Thought you said you cleaned out the garage

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post #26 of 105 Old May 3rd, 2014, 3:01 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey View Post
Let us know what brand lift it was, so others can avoid them.
Basically it looks identical to Linton's in construction.... chinese built, supposedly rated to 450KG and sold as tested to 500KG... yeah right... it's this one on Ebay, Motormax lift.
Not the most expensive (in fact it is the cheapest but it also has no compressor attachment)... but it was the largest one I could find under about $1500... I figured it seemed to be comparative to the Harbour Freight lifts.
It's boxed up ready to try to ship back to them... not sure what to look for now.. did I just get a dud? I don't know. Much more research needed now.

Hilton, you have no idea what I went through to get that much space in the garage... lol!

Chris
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post #27 of 105 Old May 3rd, 2014, 3:20 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

500Kg placed on top after the lift was raised I suspect (at the factory). Vastly different than lifting the LT from ground level.

Dennis
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post #28 of 105 Old May 3rd, 2014, 8:31 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Bit of bad luck Chris ,wish those chinese companies would build a descent product at least rate the weight capacity properly .

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post #29 of 105 Old May 6th, 2014, 5:28 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Agreed Steve.... good news, the busted one gets picked up for shipping back to supplier in the morning, they are supposed to be refunding full amount including shipping costs on receipt back in Qld.
I damn hope so, my NEW ONE left Brissey this afternoon..... and its cost me an extra grand....

Wish there was something in-between that I could be sure would lift the bike... hopefully this one will last at least my lifetime....

Anyway... our parts are being collated in the US this week... hope to get them to Linton soon, so he can regale us with more pics and progress! :-)

Chris
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post #30 of 105 Old May 6th, 2014, 7:01 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

That one looks like a proper lift (Handy Knock off) and will last a long time.

John
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post #31 of 105 Old May 9th, 2014, 6:06 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Chris, that's the same as the one I picked up at a bike shop clearing sale, only mine is blue and the jack is hydraulic (like on the website). The safety bar system is a good feature in case of any creeping. I'm making some outriggers to widen the base by 150 mm each side because it just looks a little narrow when fully raised. I made a bolt on front wheel holder 125 mm wide and a cross bar to take tie downs. I just now need to make a frame- holding gantry to attach to the table rather than lifting from my garage trusses. Only other thing I'd suggest is to make 2 plywood side runners 200 mm high to place feet on when running up onto the lift. All that said, I'm hoping to not need to use mine for a clutch replacement or leaking output shaft O ring anytime soon

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post #32 of 105 Old May 11th, 2014, 6:08 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

back on track..... now just waiting for our parts!


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post #33 of 105 Old May 11th, 2014, 7:22 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Oh, that looks so much better !

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post #34 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 12:07 am Thread Starter
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new tools

I had a bit of time on my hands last night so back out to the shed and the lathe and whipped these up I actually think they will work pretty good [IMG][/IMG]

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
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2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #35 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 12:10 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Centering bits, I presume? Look good! Haven't used a lathe since I left school... loved doing that stuff.
Still waiting on final shipment from A&S to get to Marco before the lot gets sent...

Chris
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post #36 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 3:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

yeah the little one is the clutch aligning tool, the big one sets the oil seal at the correct depth in the slave cylinder ( i hope )

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #37 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 5:07 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Linton,
These are the sort of items that would be handy to have as a "Borrow" item here in Sydney. Not that they are required often, it is just that when needed, take a lot of the pressure of the person with their arms full of stripping down their favorite girl.

An example is, I have a tap for the rear pivot on the swingarm. Aus$200. Fine European thread. Happy to lend it to persons who need it if they have an issue.

If you had time and the material, it would be good to have a set up north in the event someone needs assistance.

I have often thought, it would be great to have an entire unit to strip down and part out to assist anyone who has issues that needs resolving quickly. Space and funds limit, for now. (we are a friendly mob) This may facilitate Dennis getting access to parts where he could resolve some of the issues if he had time. ie; bearing in the clutch slave.

If you require funding for the manufacture/shipping. let us know. Perhaps you could deliver them in person?

Brian

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post #38 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 7:22 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Yep, I really want a clutch slave cylinder for autopsy,............ but a gearbox is what I really want guys. I want to fix that bloody low gear ratio so I can ride the K12 in trials, really, I'd like to have a crack at lowering that first gear by about 30% so it's similar to a K100. That would fix all our clutch woes at the same time,........... don't get me started ! Hope the clutch job and seal replacement goes well for Linton. I just got hold of the 3 seals in Viton last week, putting them in my toolbox, hopefully not to be installed for some time yet. I made a clutch centring tool for the K100, presume it will fit the K12. Linton, are you going to re-fit the tapered roller bearings or change to the RCRG bronze bushes ?

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post #39 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 8:19 am Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

Dennis I am replacing the needle brgs in the swing arm the others felt ok and no you cant have my gearbox I need it.. but you can have the slave, i would have chucked it in the bin.
Brian happy to post these off to anyone wanting them providing they work and I see no reason for them not to. I will send them up to Chris when finished I think he will be next to do a clutch hes been squirreling away parts for a while now

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
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2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #40 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 8:34 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by K100Dennis View Post
Yep, I really want a clutch slave cylinder for autopsy,............--------------------------
I took one of my failed slave cylinders apart. The ball thrust bearing in the piston is quite small (about 10MM diameter), and I am surprised that they last as well as they do. That little bearing is spinning anytime the engine is running. The one I took apart had tightened up so much that the piston spun in the cylinder, pretty immediate failure of the piston seal after that. Once the piston spins, it damages the cylinder surface, then when the piston moves in and out the seal is damaged. One thing really bad about the design is that they used hard anodized aluminum for both the piston AND cylinder! It is well known in the mechanical engineering field that like materials should not be used together where wear is concerned. Had the piston been made of steel, bronze, or other then spinning in the cylinder would not result in such rapid failure. I have used hard anodized aluminum many times as a machine design engineer, but would have never had two hard anodized surfaces rubbing together.

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post #41 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 4:49 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

Thanks David, I think I may have seen those pics posted a while back. As for the anodising of both parts, I agree about the like materials but I suspect BMW went that way due to there being clearance between the 2 parts and wanting to prevent wear from repetetive axial piston travel. They (BMW) would not have entertained the thought of a bearing failure, which we know is the root cause of slave failure (German logic). Remember though, at the end of the day the slave is a Magura part, but I suspect to a BMW design. I think it is standard practice to anodize parts exposed to brake fluid to safeguard against corrosion of the aluminium. As I have written previously, if we can prevent the bearing failure then the slave problem goes away, and that failure from what I understand, is caused by eventual lubricant starvation. Shaft speed is not an issue for this bearing, I checked that, I think I wrote it up in a previous post, we just need to be able to replenish the grease in the bearing at some stage.
Linton, please keep the slave, if you are happy to part with it I'll pay the postage etc to Tassie. PM me if it suits. Best regards, Dennis

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post #42 of 105 Old May 14th, 2014, 9:35 pm
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Re: new lift for clutch

I'm happy to hold a few parts for shipping around... god knows I'm starting to get a little collection together.. and trying to make space for more.. but its very hard when I'm not allowed to chuck much stuff out that's been collected over 60 years!

Chris
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post #43 of 105 Old May 31st, 2014, 1:49 am Thread Starter
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It goes

well I can now claim that I am an expert clutch changer outerer. I had a couple of problems that I found wern't in the video's, namely I dropped the motor too far and pulled the carbies out of the rubber things. I managed to get the fuel rail off and while leaving it in place but out the way I cut off the clamps I purchased some steel ones from the auto store they worked the same as a zip tie, only made from steel.
when I lowered the engine the second time I forgot to remove the gear indicator which promptly came apart, I found all the bits and put it back together and reinstalled I had to twist it with the key on to get the correct reading lucky there. Any way I fired it up and presto everything works, I am glad I checked it before all the rear end was reinstalled I would have had to take it all out

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
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post #44 of 105 Old May 31st, 2014, 3:12 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

That's great news Linton, congrats!!!

Chris
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post #45 of 105 Old May 31st, 2014, 7:05 am
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Re: It goes

Wow, Linton - great job! And when I clicked on the picture, a whole new set of pix showed up that captured all, or most, of the steps you went thru in doing the work. For those folks like me who've never been inside that far, it is an eye-opener!! Congrats on all the documentation and the work. Big "WHEW!!!" when you were thru?
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post #46 of 105 Old May 31st, 2014, 5:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: It goes

Thanks guys I was to say a little worried if it would go, the damaged gear selector had me going for a while. I couldn't work out what the loud banging was in the gear box while idling every now and then, turns out the bike was starting in 2nd gear, but the indicator was showing neutral.
also I couldn't believe how soft the clutch was, so I bled it for ages thinking it had air in it, turns out its normal, so much easier than before.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #47 of 105 Old Jun 2nd, 2014, 2:51 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

Good job Linton,Spose I'll have to do mine one day anyhow it's good to have an Aussie expert now that we can all ask questions to any hour of the day or night...LOL.

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post #48 of 105 Old Jun 2nd, 2014, 5:57 am Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

hit me I'm up for it now

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #49 of 105 Old Jun 2nd, 2014, 6:12 am
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Re: new lift for clutch

You might regret that.........



Chris
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post #50 of 105 Old Jun 2nd, 2014, 6:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: new lift for clutch

yeah I know, but it makes me sound like I know what I'm doing.. only took me 2hrs to work out you have to put the swing arm in "before" you put the drive shaft in ha ha!

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



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2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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