Tank Slap/Shudder - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Apr 11th, 2007, 6:22 am Thread Starter
 
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Tank Slap/Shudder

Hi All we have a late 2006 k1200lt and has this problem with the front end up to 80klms if you take hands of it will get this wicked shudder and as I know many will say ride with hands on but you can still feel it though the steering feed back the dealer reckons Bmw already know they have a problem not sure how to fix it. On A recent ride to the snowy mountians with BMW NSW Club some feed back regarding the front tyre choice and pressure
love some extra Ideas
regards Kevin

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post #2 of 21 Old Apr 11th, 2007, 7:33 am
 
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If the air pressure is good, you probably have a bad tire & don't rule out the rear tire.
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post #3 of 21 Old Apr 11th, 2007, 7:42 am
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scalloping of front tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by keviconn
Hi All we have a late 2006 k1200lt and has this problem with the front end up to 80klms if you take hands of it will get this wicked shudder and as I know many will say ride with hands on but you can still feel it though the steering feed back the dealer reckons Bmw already know they have a problem not sure how to fix it. On A recent ride to the snowy mountians with BMW NSW Club some feed back regarding the front tyre choice and pressure
love some extra Ideas
regards Kevin
Had this problem on my ST1100 whenver I took hands off.
Mechanic saif it was due to improper tire pressure resulting in uneven wear and scalloping of tire.
Replaced tire, kept pressure at right levels and voila: no more tank slappig.
I've found the same with the LT.

JS
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post #4 of 21 Old Apr 11th, 2007, 8:15 am
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Hi Kevin and welcome aboard... Yep, as the others have indicated, your tyres are almost certainly the problem. Our LTs are VERY sensitive when it comes to such and I have suffered from two 'bad' brand new tyres now...one on the rear and one on the front. As soon as I rode out the door on the second one, I did a u-turn and changed the tyre knowing exactly what the problem was and sure enough, problem fixed with the next tyre...

What rubber do you have on her now? And what milage has she done on them?

Ian

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2000 K1200LT Grey - 'The Airbus'
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post #5 of 21 Old Apr 11th, 2007, 6:20 pm
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G'day Kevin,

As stated,we all experience this problem. On my previous LT BMW replaced the Ball Joint, Front Rim, and both tyres, never resolved. Unfortunately we totaled that bike on 04(Diesel Spill). On our current model LT we still have the tyre problem. I run Bridgestones with 42psi in the front and 48 on the rear. The one thing I have noticed is that when the tyre is about 50% wear the problem seems to occur. Usually not too bad before that. Tyre pressure is critical to these bikes, I personaly think this is to do with size/weight and braking system.

Jake
04 K12LT
Melbourne, Australia
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post #6 of 21 Old Apr 12th, 2007, 9:46 pm
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Welcome

Hi Kevin, & welcome to the mad house..

I have exact same problem which my dealer (Worthingtons at Gosford) is about to replace the steering damper (under warranty) to try to resolve.
I'm not convinced its the tyres, as I've had the problem through 2 sets of tyres, including immediately after Worthingtons installed a new set of Metzeller ME880's, which I'd hoped would do the trick.

After my much complaining, their mechanic said that the "wobble" was excessive, so waiting on the part to come in from Germany and will be installed when I get my 30,000km service, probbaly in about a month or so.

I suspect its probably a combination of things, some have said its the rear tyre, others the front, others on older LT's (in the US) have tried changing to the newrer rake angle of the '05 and later models. There's quite a few threads about the problem if you do a search.

For my 2c, get back onto your dealer and make sure they understand it is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
And keep us up to date with how you go, if you chance on a fix we all want to know about it.

cheers

Chris
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post #7 of 21 Old Apr 14th, 2007, 6:20 am Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Heaps

HI EVERYONE
Thank you for all your reply's, They have been very helpfull. Mostly I find that it really comes down to two factors firstly affecting the individual bike it seems even in the US they have the varing problem as well. But I have after a bit of research seeking help from a trye guy I use for our cars for the past yrs, I showed him the replies this guy also raced V8 supercars, reckons that the me8800 tyre has a problem in manufacturing as most of the bikes using this tyre have a problem after a period of use and that it also occurs in the US as well, the majority of people report using this tyre type. Well time will tell going into workshop this tuesday. Just a side note LOL always have tyre pressure 42 front 46 rear I did start low 36front 42 rear but advised best go up in pressure due to wieght and braking conditions
But I thank you for the welcoming notes and look forward to sharing some riding and chats

regards Kevin & Vicki
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post #8 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 4:32 am
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wobble update - still wobbling...

OK, so got a new OEM BMW dampener installed today, along with 30k service done.
Ride out of Worthingtons, hit 80-90kph on the F3 on-ramp, and release pressure on handlebars..... wobble starts up again, initially not as bad as it was, but as soon as those cyclic vibrations start, away she goes....

As good as the dealer up there is, the story is still the same... its common with most LT's, and I think someone almost had a slip-of-the-tongue, and mentioned something about a "common design feature"....
Wish I could get something along those lines in writing!

Oh well..... next step will be, wear out the current tyres, get some new Metz's and really hassle about getting them balanced. bugger!

Oh, and I posted a link to video of the wobble on main forum last weekend, if you haven't suffered the "effect" of the unknown cause.... (yeah, yeah, I hear ya all, tires, tyres, tie-yers!)
'tis here: http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ing_wobble.flv
cheers to you lot!

Chris
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post #9 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 6:32 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
OK, so got a new OEM BMW dampener installed today, along with 30k service done.
Ride out of Worthingtons, hit 80-90kph on the F3 on-ramp, and release pressure on handlebars..... wobble starts up again, initially not as bad as it was, but as soon as those cyclic vibrations start, away she goes....

As good as the dealer up there is, the story is still the same... its common with most LT's, and I think someone almost had a slip-of-the-tongue, and mentioned something about a "common design feature"....
Wish I could get something along those lines in writing!

Oh well..... next step will be, wear out the current tyres, get some new Metz's and really hassle about getting them balanced. bugger!

Oh, and I posted a link to video of the wobble on main forum last weekend, if you haven't suffered the "effect" of the unknown cause.... (yeah, yeah, I hear ya all, tires, tyres, tie-yers!)
'tis here: http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ing_wobble.flv
cheers to you lot!

Hi Chris

It is a design flaw but who do we oin it on lol, the new bike handles better but I never had wobble in old model, Yet I do know on this bike having the new metz on the difference in the bike is huge wobble still there but in very small doses now lol. But also tyre technology has not kept up with the bikes

regards

Kevin
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post #10 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 5:05 pm
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When I first got my LT it had just been fitted witha new Metz front tyre and had a half worn Bridgestone BT020 on the rear. Riding home from Melbourne I became aware of the steering shake, and took things real cautious after that.

When I got back to brisbane I took the bike to my tyre guy (Brisbane Motorcycle tyres), and we discovered the Metzler on the front was out of shape. Metzler didn't want to know about it, so at the recomendation of my tyre guy, I had a set of Dunlop D205's fitted.

The first set of Dunlops did about 13,000k's before I replaced them (I replaced them early, as I was going on a long trip and wanted new tyres). I NEVER had the steering shake problem in the 13,000ks I did on the first set of Dunlops, and that particular set of tyres had worn very evenly, because I hadn't done many highway kilometres. Most of my riding had been on back roads and the tyres had worn evenly right to the side walls.

The second set were the same, did around 15,000k's (again changed early because of an upcoming long trip). The current set have been good, but I have done more highway riding on this set so I've ended up with a pronounced flat spot on the rear tyre, and as a result, I also have some steering shake back when I relax my grip on the handlebars, but nothing like I experienced with the Metzeler front tyre.

I accept that the general consensus from our US counterparts is to steer well clear of the Dunlop D205's. But I can only go by my own experience, and I've found they are a brilliant tyre for my LT.

My only reservation would be that I don't feel entirely happy with the Dunlops in the wet, but, that may be more of a psycological thing, rather than anything to do with the tyres wet weather grip ability. Its perhaps a good thing that I'm extra cautious in the wet, because I'm in no hurry to find the tyres limit of adhesion.

I believe at days end, the shake is just a characteristic of the bike, and I think tyres, and tyre wear play a large role in producing the steering shake.

For all you Aussie LT owners, I recommend you give the Dunlop D205's a try next time around and see what you reckon.

Cheers

Barry

Barry Lane
Brisbane
Australia
99 Champane K1200LT
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post #11 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 5:41 pm
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Hey, Barry - goo post. You've prolly already run across the information back in the archives when we LTers were having a problem with OEM fitted Dunlop D205s. Seems several batches of 'em came outta the oven rather fat of width and began to rub the swing arm, creating a mess and a hazard. The solution wuz to add another small, thin shim to the one already on the wheel flange. That moved the tire slightly toward the exhaust side of the wheel system and away from the swing arm. You may know that there is very leetle clearance (hardly more than paper sheet thickness) between the swing arm and any tire (of the correct size).

Just a caution note, in case you hadn't seen those past threads and the solutions. Ride safe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barryst1100
When I first got my LT it had just been fitted witha new Metz front tyre and had a half worn Bridgestone BT020 on the rear. Riding home from Melbourne I became aware of the steering shake, and took things real cautious after that.

When I got back to brisbane I took the bike to my tyre guy (Brisbane Motorcycle tyres), and we discovered the Metzler on the front was out of shape. Metzler didn't want to know about it, so at the recomendation of my tyre guy, I had a set of Dunlop D205's fitted.

The first set of Dunlops did about 13,000k's before I replaced them (I replaced them early, as I was going on a long trip and wanted new tyres). I NEVER had the steering shake problem in the 13,000ks I did on the first set of Dunlops, and that particular set of tyres had worn very evenly, because I hadn't done many highway kilometres. Most of my riding had been on back roads and the tyres had worn evenly right to the side walls.

The second set were the same, did around 15,000k's (again changed early because of an upcoming long trip). The current set have been good, but I have done more highway riding on this set so I've ended up with a pronounced flat spot on the rear tyre, and as a result, I also have some steering shake back when I relax my grip on the handlebars, but nothing like I experienced with the Metzeler front tyre.

I accept that the general consensus from our US counterparts is to steer well clear of the Dunlop D205's. But I can only go by my own experience, and I've found they are a brilliant tyre for my LT.

My only reservation would be that I don't feel entirely happy with the Dunlops in the wet, but, that may be more of a psycological thing, rather than anything to do with the tyres wet weather grip ability. Its perhaps a good thing that I'm extra cautious in the wet, because I'm in no hurry to find the tyres limit of adhesion.

I believe at days end, the shake is just a characteristic of the bike, and I think tyres, and tyre wear play a large role in producing the steering shake.

For all you Aussie LT owners, I recommend you give the Dunlop D205's a try next time around and see what you reckon.

Cheers

Barry
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post #12 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 5:57 pm
 
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I've always found that replacing the REAR TYRE is what makes the wobble go away.

I am also of the opinion that it is really not that big of a deal. Oh sure...the first time you experience it, it can be a little exciting. But once one is aware of the issue...it's really not a biggie. Just merely touching one of the hand-grips instantly makes the wobble dissipate.

A true "tank-slapper" is not so easily remedied.
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post #13 of 21 Old May 15th, 2007, 8:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I am also of the opinion that it is really not that big of a deal. Oh sure...the first time you experience it, it can be a little exciting. But once one is aware of the issue...it's really not a biggie. Just merely touching one of the hand-grips instantly makes the wobble dissipate.
Thanks Joe. From now I'll refer to it as a "feature".
"Hey guys, see what my bike can do when I let go of the 'bars.... bet your's can't. I luv it, its exciting"
"See Honey, I didn't have to pay any extra for this, hang on and get ready for some fun...."

Heh, heh... glad you made it home in one piece Joe. Hope it was a great "adventure".
cheers

Chris
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post #14 of 21 Old May 16th, 2007, 6:25 am
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Hey Chris, I have to agree with Joe. I've had what you've had 2 times. Both times a new rear tyre, properly balanced fixed it.

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post #15 of 21 Old May 16th, 2007, 12:12 pm
 
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Hey Chris, sorry to hear you're still having this issue. My 06' has been on the shop for a couple 2 - 3 weeks now while they try to fix it. They've replaced the dampner and are now replacing the joints, bearing, and most of the suspention is sounds like. Thankfully all under warranty. I've discussed with them about replacing the tires and they said that the Metz's were fine and no sense in spending $500 bucks on replacing good tires. Heck, you'd think with all that they're spending that maybe that'd be the cheapest solution, except they'd charge me for them so maybe not. haha I'm glad that they're at least not just dismissing the issue. Anyway, thankfully I still have the GS to tool around with so no worries, but I would like the LT back. They're aiming for this weekend so we'll see what happens. "knocking on wood" Cheers ~darren
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post #16 of 21 Old May 16th, 2007, 7:16 pm
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Darren, I might come over to see your dealer....

Steve/Joe, yes I will try the rear tyre change next up, although it did nothing last time (changed both tyres). And even had the rear rebalanced after it was mushroom plugged for a very tiny nail hole.
Plus I added Ultraseal in both front and back, which in theory should promote self-balancing.
Will just keep chasing it.

Chris
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post #17 of 21 Old May 17th, 2007, 8:23 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I've always found that replacing the REAR TYRE is what makes the wobble go away.
My bike has a slight head shake when I'm decelerating at about 40 mph. Doing some preliminary checking, I noticed that there are NO weights on my rear tire! What are the odds of a rear wheel and tire being perfectly balanced without the need for any weights?

I think I know the answer. I just ordered a Marc Parnes balancer to check it out.

Jim S.
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post #18 of 21 Old May 17th, 2007, 5:03 pm
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Chris, I like your attitude. Just wish we were closer so we could go for a ride, Down Under Style.

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post #19 of 21 Old May 17th, 2007, 10:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Just wish we were closer so we could go for a ride, Down Under Style.
Ship it on over for the next Snowy Ride, Nov 10 weekend.... we're trying to get few more along!!!

Chris
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post #20 of 21 Old May 18th, 2007, 1:39 pm
 
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can it be true?

BMW just called me to say they fixed the shake on my 06'. I'll be on my way to pick it up and test this out for myself and if it is fixed I'll pass along the solution for mine.
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post #21 of 21 Old May 19th, 2007, 10:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle
BMW just called me to say they fixed the shake on my 06'. I'll be on my way to pick it up and test this out for myself and if it is fixed I'll pass along the solution for mine.
That's good to hear Darren. Very positive. Awaiting your findings with high anticipation! regards

Chris
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