Failure to communicate - Page 2 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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  #51  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 10:38 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
....we're talking about stuff that runs on magic smoke....

Have patience. It will work.

Tom
Ain't it the truth!
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  #52  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 10:40 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

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Originally Posted by 12R12RT
Noooo!

.......I'm merely sharing what I have learned about how to pair.....

Don't call me an expert, though. Them's fightin' words.

Tom
Well, you have saved me HOURS trying to make this stuff work, and probably others also....once we get everything working, I'm tempted to leave everything turned ON......including the motorcycle!
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  #53  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 10:52 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
Well, you have saved me HOURS trying to make this stuff work, and probably others also....once we get everything working, I'm tempted to leave everything turned ON......including the motorcycle!
Ditto, on all!!
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  #54  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:55 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

I refound the Online Sena connection guide take a look here. This also covers the SR10.
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  #55  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 6:20 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Okay, a big thanks to all who posted in response to my pleas of ineptitude, especially to Tom and Deek for their step-by-step explanations which, BTW, worked.

So,I'm now paired (Sena to RT) with the audio streaming away....turned everything off, came back to it later, turned on the Sena, first, then the RT, and, voila, it still worked.

I did have to do one factory reset, then repair, due to a weird glitch (I'm sure it was me but whatever), but once I did that it seemed to hold.

Stage one complete. Stage two will be to pair it with my buddy's Scala headset so we can have pointless conversation on our ride across Texas in the spring en route to Utah.

If I get really ambitious I'm going to get the phone into the loop.

Again, thanks for all the help. I don't know how long (if ever) it might have taken to get this going otherwise.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 7:41 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

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Originally Posted by Entropyd
Stage one complete. Stage two will be to pair it with my buddy's Scala headset so we can have pointless conversation on our ride across Texas in the spring en route to Utah.
Sorry to spoil things... Sena and Scala don't talk to one another.

Sena to Sena.... Scala to Scala
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  #57  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 7:42 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

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Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Sorry to spoil things... Sena and Scala don't talk to one another.
Oh, man, that's a drag..... Ah well, I guess I'll just have to listen to music and talk to myself
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  #58  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 7:55 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Well, when you get your phone paired with the Sena you could just call him...

Tom
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  #59  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 8:11 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
Well, when you get your phone paired with the Sena you could just call him...

Tom
And so it shall be....Tom, after you take a break from me, maybe you can help me pair my phone with the Sena (seriously, it can wait...I ain't doing it now)
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  #60  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 8:41 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

That's actually fairly straightforward and one of the more comprehensible portions of the user manual.

1. Turn on the SMH10 and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds until the LED flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps. You will hear a voice prompt saying “Phone pairing”.

2. Search for Bluetooth devices on your mobile phone. Select the Sena SMH10 in the list of the devices detected on the mobile phone.

3. Enter 0000 for the PIN. Some mobile phones may not ask for the PIN.

4. The mobile phone confirms that pairing has completed and the SMH10 is ready to use. You will hear a voice prompt from the SMH10 saying “Your headset is paired”.

5. If the pairing process is not completed within three minutes, the SMH10 will return to stand-by mode.

Unless you happen to have a Motorola QA1 Karma dumb-phone, I can't be of more specific help ;^).

If you ever want to pair your phone to a Zumo 66X and the Zumo with the Sena for phone use, I can help with that.

Tom
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  #61  
Old Feb 1st, 2013, 8:47 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
That's actually fairly straightforward and one of the more comprehensible portions of the user manual.

1. Turn on the SMH10 and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds until the LED flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps. You will hear a voice prompt saying “Phone pairing”.

2. Search for Bluetooth devices on your mobile phone. Select the Sena SMH10 in the list of the devices detected on the mobile phone.

3. Enter 0000 for the PIN. Some mobile phones may not ask for the PIN.

4. The mobile phone confirms that pairing has completed and the SMH10 is ready to use. You will hear a voice prompt from the SMH10 saying “Your headset is paired”.

5. If the pairing process is not completed within three minutes, the SMH10 will return to stand-by mode.

Unless you happen to have a Motorola QA1 Karma dumb-phone, I can't be of more specific help ;^).

If you ever want to pair your phone to a Zumo 66X and the Zumo with the Sena for phone use, I can help with that.

Tom
California is a long way from Louisiana, but I'm going to have to find the time to ride out there and buy you a beer!
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  #62  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 6:03 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

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Originally Posted by johnbaker15
I refound the Online Sena connection guide take a look here. This also covers the SR10.
Thanks for posting that. I haven't checked yet, the two web pages appear differently but have similar content maybe. HERE's the one someone posted earlier.

I was very pleased that the last video, along with the checklist from Tom and the Sena's manual helped me connect my Sena SMH10 very easily with my Pantech Ease cell phone and BMW Nav III (Garmin 28xx) yesterday.

One question I have......since I am not successfully connected to my cell phone and my GPS, do I need to delete those connections when I attempt to connect the Sena to my RT's audio system for the first time next week? Tom? John? Any other "heroic expert"?

Here's the brief and rough checklist I scribbled down yesterday.....I have to have a checklist to do things like this as I suffer from OldTimer's syndrome.....

My checklists are a work in progress and I'd love someone to correct the errors I probably made. I'll keep updating them here. Below is version 1.

Pairing Sena SMH10 Blue Tooth headset to BMW NAV III GPS
>>>ROUGH<<<

Multipoint GPS pairing....

This method isusedif you use GPS only for turn-by-turn voice instructions (Not for GPS to headset stero music stream)

First pair to cell phone.....(Note 1)

1. Turn on the Sena headset and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds. until the LED
flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps.. “Hear phone pairing”.

2. Turn on the cell phone Search for Bluetooth devices on your mobile phone. Then select the Sena SMH10 in the list. At some point select to be paired as Handsfree Profile.

3. On the cell phone enter 0000 as the PIN. Hear lots of 3 beep groups. Heat a double beep group when it's completed pairing, and says “Your headset is paired”. It's ready to use at this point.

Now pair to Nav III GPS.....

1. Turn on the Sena headset and press the Jog Dial for 5 seconds. See red light flash and hear “Intercom pairing.”

2. Within 2 second, tap the Phone Button. Says “Multipoint Pairing” and two beeps.

3. Turn on the Nav III GPS and search for Bluetooth devices. Select Sena SMH10 on the list. Will hear set of beeps then “Your headset is paired; Media connected, Phone connected”.(Note 2)



Notes:
1. Sena online video shows the phone must be connected prior to the GPS? I tried once to connect the GPS before pairing to the phone – GPS paired and worked fine. However, when I next tried to connect to the phone, I lost my GPS audio.....not sure why, so I plan to do Phone first, GPS second next time I have to pair. Even though I do not plan on ever using the phone.

2. GPS – Volume on BMW Nav III is inoperable. If you try to adjust it on the GPS you get warning saying you must use the headset volume control. Issue-How will the GPS volume “work” with the RT's radio audio volume since both need to be controlled a the headset? Volume imbalance?
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  #63  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 6:10 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
Okay, a big thanks to all who posted in response to my pleas of ineptitude, especially to Tom and Deek for their step-by-step explanations which, BTW, worked...
Thanks for the feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
....So,I'm now paired (Sena to RT) with the audio streaming away....turned everything off, came back to it later, turned on the Sena, first, then the RT, and, voila, it still worked.

I did have to do one factory reset, then repair, due to a weird glitch (I'm sure it was me but whatever), but once I did that it seemed to hold.

Stage one complete. Stage two will be to pair it with my buddy's Scala headset ...
Excellent! Glad to hear you were successful pairing with the RT's audio, then shutting everything off, then turning it all on (Sena first) and it STILL worked!

I am very interested to hear about your efforts connecting to your buddy's Scala; I'll be trying the same thing in late April.

By the way, there is very little info on the Sena SMH10 and RT's audio sytem over on the BMWST forum.......I might go over there and drop a link to the BMWLT forum.....anyone see any issues there?
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  #64  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 6:11 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Sorry to spoil things... Sena and Scala don't talk to one another.

Sena to Sena.... Scala to Scala

Oh....crud!
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  #65  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 6:13 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
That's actually fairly straightforward and one of the more comprehensible portions of the user manual.

1. Turn on the SMH10 and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds until the LED flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps. You will hear a voice prompt saying “Phone pairing”.......

Tom
Oh, I like your checklist better than the one I wrote earlier (version 1). I believe I'll plagarize if you don't mind......
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  #66  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 6:28 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
California is a long way from Louisiana, but I'm going to have to find the time to ride out there and buy you a beer!
Yeah, from Memphis also, but yeah, "Ditto!"
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  #67  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:23 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

This would be funny if it were happening to someone else.... Actually, it's kind of funny anyway.

So, NOW, I tried to hook up to the Device Manager software (I have a MAC) to check on the firmware my unit has. The Software will not recognize the unit. I get to a screen where it asks for "root user / Administrator" password, I enter the password I set and....nothing.

Reloaded the software, double checked all possible confounding variables (that I could think of), NADA....<sigh>

So, I'm having fleeting thoughts of returning it. Can't get Sena's support to do anything except mail me excerpts from the manual in response to my questions / pleas for help.

Just wondering if anyone is using another brand (Scala would be my next choice) and how much trouble they had getting it up and running with the RT?
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  #68  
Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:55 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Your hook-up of the Sena, the phone, and the GPS looks good, but you may have to re-pair to the RT to go back to using the RT audio again.

I don't have a Nav III, so I'm taking a stab in the dark here. A more elegant solution might be to wire the Nav III Auido Out into the RT's Aux In. This way you would be able to hear all of the RT Audio options, and the GPS will be on the Aux channel.

Then pair the phone with the Nav III. Now the phone runs through the Nav III and, if the Nav III is anything like the Nav IV/Zumo 66X, you will be able to control the phone with the Nav III.

Does anybody know if the Nav III will do phone control?

Tom
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  #69  
Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 7:44 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
This would be funny if it were happening to someone else.... .....(I have a MAC) ........
Ah HA, that explains ALL your issues......pesky little MacIntosh bugger!


I have not tried to connect my new Sena to my Win 7 PC yet......sure hope I do not have the same problem. OTOH, I really don't plan to do that unless it doesn't work well with my BMW audio system with iPod Touch and the devices I want (BMW Nav III instsructions).
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 7:46 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Color me confused, unfortunately that's becoming more frequent lately. Anyway, I assume that the above quote is a typo but wondering which way works best. My SENA is supposed to arrive on the UPS truck tomorrow and I'm hoping to pair it with the audio on my 2011 RT as well as my Garmin 2820. As such I'm looking for all the info I can pull together. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

Were you able to connect the 2820 to the Sena, Lynn?
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 8:12 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
Your hook-up of the Sena, the phone, and the GPS looks good, but you may have to re-pair to the RT to go back to using the RT audio again.
Remember I have NOT tried to connect to the RT's audio yet. I take delivery of my new RT on Tuesday.
I was hoping I could just leave the GPS and cell pairing info on the Sena, but I won't be surprised if I have to delete all pairings from the Sena (in your earlier checklist), then attempt an initial pairing to the RT (using your early checklist), then once again pairing with the cell and the GPS as I did in my earlier checklist(s). Between the two of us I feel confident it will work!

Quote:
I don't have a Nav III, so I'm taking a stab in the dark here. A more elegant solution might be to wire the Nav III Auido Out into the RT's Aux In. This way you would be able to hear all of the RT Audio options, and the GPS will be on the Aux channel.
Then pair the phone with the Nav III. Now the phone runs through the Nav III and, if the Nav III is anything like the Nav IV/Zumo 66X, you will be able to control the phone with the Nav III.
Not sure what you meant by "all of the RT Audio options" above? I undestand about the GPS audio out to the RT's audio in, as that's how my last two RTs were configured with this same Nav III. I have never connected a cell phone, nor did I want to do so (before I bought the Sena). However, I don't want to connect the GPS to the RT's audio via the GPS output audio to the RT's input audio (3.5mm connector in the "glove box" because my higher priority than GPS and/or cell is music from my iPod Touch. It will take up the 3.5mm audio in plug and also the USB connect, using my adaptor cable from Amazon ($22 one).
My priorities for audio in my Sean are:
1. RT's audio, including the iPod Touch connected by iPod adaptor cable
2. GPS audio
3. Cell phone use
The last two are nice to have, the first one is a gotta-have.

Quote:
Does anybody know if the Nav III will do phone control?
I believe it would, but have never tried it. I thought I saw something on that on Sena's video link page, the first one of the links folks posted above, but I am not sure. I do have a PDF Owners Manual for the Nav III GPS and I could send it to you if you are interested.....or I will look it up if you are interested, and not just asking for my sake. I really have no desire to try it.......cell phone use is my absolute lowest priorty of anything....including finding a better bug remover for my windshield (Bounce dryer sheets!).
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 8:55 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
Ah HA, that explains ALL your issues......pesky little MacIntosh bugger!


I have not tried to connect my new Sena to my Win 7 PC yet......sure hope I do not have the same problem. OTOH, I really don't plan to do that unless it doesn't work well with my BMW audio system with iPod Touch and the devices I want (BMW Nav III instsructions).
My reason for connecting to the computer was to see what firmware my unit has. Is there another way to know? Guess it doesn't matter as long as everything works, though my thought was that IF they come up with an upgrade that I want (say, a way to pair the Sena with a Scala, which they implied they would have forthcoming), I need the device manager for the upgrade.

I think I may be making this all way too complicated. The headset works. I'll leave it at that.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 9:54 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
My reason for connecting to the computer was to see what firmware my unit has. Is there another way to know? Guess it doesn't matter as long as everything works, though my thought was that IF they come up with an upgrade that I want (say, a way to pair the Sena with a Scala, which they implied they would have forthcoming), I need the device manager for the upgrade.

I think I may be making this all way too complicated. The headset works. I'll leave it at that.
Now that you mention it - it is important to know which version we have....when I finally get around to (trying to) connect my Sena to the PC I'll post which version I have....of course, my headset could have a different one than yours. I bought it last week from RevZilla.
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 8:18 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

I'm a happy camper. My SENA arrived on Sat and I got the battery fully charged and using the Software Manager on the SENA WEB Site ensured that the latest Firmware was installed. Yesterday I made a test run with the headset prior to installing it in my helmet. Using the sequence described in this thread I first paired the headset with 2011 RT bike audio. That effort was successful on the first attempt and all the bike audio controls worked as advertised. I then shut off the bike and paired the headset with my GARMIN 2820 to which my Android phone was previously connected. Then turned off everything and reactivated all systems, headset first, then bike audio followed by GPS and phone. At this point, once in a row, everything worked as advertised. Today I'll install the headset in my helmet and do some more testing. I had previously purchased all the necessary pieces to attach the Bluetooth dongle to the rear speaker connection but had not completed the installation. Next time I have the body panels off I think I'll complete that connection just 'cause I have all the stuff. Never know when it might come in handy.
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  #75  
Old Feb 4th, 2013, 8:34 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
I'm a happy camper. My SENA arrived on Sat and I got the battery fully charged and using the Software Manager on the SENA WEB Site ensured that the latest Firmware was installed. Yesterday I made a test run with the headset prior to installing it in my helmet. Using the sequence described in this thread I first paired the headset with 2011 RT bike audio. That effort was successful on the first attempt and all the bike audio controls worked as advertised. I then shut off the bike and paired the headset with my GARMIN 2820 to which my Android phone was previously connected. Then turned off everything and reactivated all systems, headset first, then bike audio followed by GPS and phone. At this point, once in a row, everything worked as advertised. Today I'll install the headset in my helmet and do some more testing. I had previously purchased all the necessary pieces to attach the Bluetooth dongle to the rear speaker connection but had not completed the installation. Next time I have the body panels off I think I'll complete that connection just 'cause I have all the stuff. Never know when it might come in handy.
Lynn congrats looks like it works as advertised. Now you just need to find someone else with a Sena to pair up with and do some distance testing.
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  #76  
Old Feb 4th, 2013, 9:42 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
I'm a happy camper. My SENA arrived on Sat .....
You are a day or two ahead of me, Lynn. Glad to hear it worked so well, and you included good details of how and when you paired, and how and when you turned on equipment later. I'll follow your lead and incorporate that info into my checklists.
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  #77  
Old Feb 6th, 2013, 8:08 am
Lynn_Keen Lynn_Keen is online now
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
At this point, once in a row, everything worked as advertised.
The above Quote is from my earlier post a couple of days ago. Since then I've had a chance to exercise the Bluetooth connection multiple times. The repeated connection success rate between the bike and SENA is something around 60%. I use the same sequence at start up; headset on, bike on, GPS on, and shutdown; headset off, GPS off, bike off. The SENA/GPS pairing is 100% successful but the SENA/bike pairing is not. On several occasions the Bluetooth symbol on the bike displayed constant on indication that it was successfully connected but there was no sound in the headset, this just adds to the confusion. When it fails it requires me to put the bike audio and SENA in the Bluetooth SEARCH mode in order to get it to reconnect. Don't understand this inconsistancy but it's frustrating! Anyone else have this experience?
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  #78  
Old Feb 6th, 2013, 8:25 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
The above Quote is from my earlier post a couple of days ago. Since then I've had a chance to exercise the Bluetooth connection multiple times. The repeated connection success rate between the bike and SENA is something around 60%. I use the same sequence at start up; headset on, bike on, GPS on, and shutdown; headset off, GPS off, bike off. The SENA/GPS pairing is 100% successful but the SENA/bike pairing is not. On several occasions the Bluetooth symbol on the bike displayed constant on indication that it was successfully connected but there was no sound in the headset, this just adds to the confusion. When it fails it requires me to put the bike audio and SENA in the Bluetooth SEARCH mode in order to get it to reconnect. Don't understand this inconsistancy but it's frustrating! Anyone else have this experience?
Lynn,

I don't have the Sena manager installed on this system, but there is a setting you change for the 1600 that addresses connection issues. Perhaps you could go into the Sena setup manager and try out that change for your RT.

From the Sena support page; Only one SMH10 headset can be paired with the BMW Bluetooth audio system. Using the SMH10 firmware version 4.1.1, disable EDR in the Device Settings.

Additionally the Sena manager V4.2 beta release notes state;
Improved compatibility with Bluetooth onboard audio systems and GPS devices


Attached also is the PDF. ( I think)
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  #79  
Old Feb 6th, 2013, 10:56 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Lynn -

John's recommendation is spot-on.

I'm not familiar with the 2820, but am curious as to what sort of pairing you did with it.

Could it be that the RT and the Garmin are fighting with the Sena for priority?

My experience with my Zumo is: Phone paired to Zumo, Zumo Audio out to RT via hardwire, Sena paired to RT. The Sena is not paired to both the RT and the Garmin.

Tom
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  #80  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 6:37 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Lynn,

I don't have the Sena manager installed on this system, but there is a setting you change for the 1600 that addresses connection issues. Perhaps you could go into the Sena setup manager and try out that change for your RT.

From the Sena support page; Only one SMH10 headset can be paired with the BMW Bluetooth audio system. Using the SMH10 firmware version 4.1.1, disable EDR in the Device Settings.

Additionally the Sena manager V4.2 beta release notes state;
Improved compatibility with Bluetooth onboard audio systems and GPS devices


Attached also is the PDF. ( I think)
My gear:
1. Sena SMH10 bought about 2/1/13, not yet connected to Sena to determine it's firm/software version.
2. 2013 BMW R1200RT with audio option
3. BMW Nav III (about a 2006 model - basically a BT Garmin 28xx)
4. Pantech Ease cell phone about 3 yrs old


The "1600" you mention is a K1600, right?

I looked at the PDF, but have not tried to connect anything since deleting all pairing data in the Sena on Sunday. My intended use of my Camhead RT audio with GPS is the same as Lynn's. I have NOT tried to pair to the RT yet in any combination...but I did successfully to the Nav III and my cell phone last week (see my posts above).

In that PDF file, there are many things that confuse me:

"..SMH10 and SMH10B have different pairing and connection procedures."
and
"SMH10 (firmware not supported)"
and
"*BMW’s GPS system will work as a standalone Bluetooth device. Connecting SMH10 to GPS will limit BMW’s radio audio to BMW’s built-in speakers..."


Now I am more confused than ever! If that last one is correct, most of us here are in trouble!

I picked up the Camhead Tuesday and rode 300 miles in the last two days. I did NOT use the Sena for anything, I used my old Nolan N43 Trilogy helmet without a Sena headset....I was surprised how, for my low expectations of fidelity, the speakers did a reasonable job up to about 65-70 mph. I wear ear plugs, and I'm not sure that makes a person hear music better or worse; I just know I have to in order to reduce wind roar, to which I am sensitive.

So, I'm thinking of trying of doing this today, since the weather is not good for riding:
1. Pair the Sena to my RT since that was my first priority. See how that goes for several riding sessions. I am hoping that goes well, since I'm pairing only one source (the RT audio) to the Sena.. However, if I have any problems at all doing the pairs during multiple rides so that it's a hassle, I will consider NOT using Sena for its pairing to the RT; I'll just use the RT's speakers......not perfect, as I mainly want music on long days, highway runs at elevated speeds....(note that I expect audio quality to be better with the Sena headset than the BMW's speakers...but that is an assumption)
2. If I can reliably pair with the RT as above, then I will try to pair with the GPS (still no cell phone). Assuming that pairing is also reliable after several riding sessions, I'll consider adding the phone.

Here's where I apparently need to do more research:
>Pair the phone to the Sena then pair the GPS the Sena (that works -done earlier) then pair the RT to the Sena (this is what I planned to do today) -or-
>Pair the phone to the GPS (I've never tried that) then pair the GPS to the Sena then pair the RT to the Sena.

Comments?
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  #81  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 6:52 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
....
My experience with my Zumo is: Phone paired to Zumo, Zumo Audio out to RT via hardwire, Sena paired to RT. The Sena is not paired to both the RT and the Garmin.

Tom
Tom, I'm guessing, but I think Lynn does not have a wired connection between his Garmin 2820 and his RT....he is hoping to connect the GPS to his Sena and also his RT to his Sena. Starting to sound like that's an issue! Am I correct that you have a BMW Zumo installed in your RT? the optional "Navigation option"? So it is hard wired to the RT's audio system?

My BMW Nav III (basically a Garmin 28xx with BT) is NOT connected to my RT with any audio OUT wire. It WAS wire connected to my 2006 R1200RT with audio option....but I was told there is no audio IN option on my 2013 R1200RT -OTHER- than the plug in the "glove box" that I will use with my iPod Touch (tried it yesterday with the $22 iPod Adaptor Cable from Amazon - works perfect).

So if we cannot Sena SMH10 BT pair to BOTH the RT and the GPS, the then sounds like the only solution is to wire connect to the audio IN with the GPS (the 2820 might not have an audio out jack)? That ain't gonna happen for me - I'll pass on GPS audio to be able to hear my iPod. I know I could wire-connect my iPod (or GPS) to the Sena - not interested in that!

Oh my, why must I always be on the bleeding edge of technology?
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  #82  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 7:26 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
The "1600" you mention is a K1600, right?
Yes, my point in bringing it up was that if they reccommend you use the SMH manager to turn off EDR for the K1600, you might test that out for the RT to see if it helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
In that PDF file, there are many things that confuse me:

"..SMH10 and SMH10B have different pairing and connection procedures."
and
"SMH10 (firmware not supported)"
and
"*BMW’s GPS system will work as a standalone Bluetooth device. Connecting SMH10 to GPS will limit BMW’s radio audio to BMW’s built-in speakers..."
A little Sena history will help. The first released model Sena SMH10 did not have any firmware upgrade ability. The second model Sena SMH10B and any following models all have upgrade capability.
I'll confess that I didn't read the whole PDF but assume they are talking about a hardwire from the radio to the GPS in the section about limiting the radio to the built-in speakers.
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  #83  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 7:29 am
Lynn_Keen Lynn_Keen is online now
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Lynn,

I don't have the Sena manager installed on this system, but there is a setting you change for the 1600 that addresses connection issues. Perhaps you could go into the Sena setup manager and try out that change for your RT.

From the Sena support page; Only one SMH10 headset can be paired with the BMW Bluetooth audio system. Using the SMH10 firmware version 4.1.1, disable EDR in the Device Settings.

Additionally the Sena manager V4.2 beta release notes state;
Improved compatibility with Bluetooth onboard audio systems and GPS devices


Attached also is the PDF. ( I think)
For what it's worth, I seem to recall reading, I think on the SENA Firmware update instructions, that the instruction to disable the EDR applied only to the K1600 and that it was stated that there are differences between the K1600 and the R1200 audio system. Therefore I did not disable that attribute. The assumption that my Garmin 2820 is not hard wired to the bike audio for voice prompts is correct. I have the hardware to do that but prefer to use the Bluetooth connection directly to the Garmin and so will continue to experiment in the hopes of finding a workable connect/disconnect sequence. OH yea, I also have my Android phone paired to my Garmin and, again I must stipulate "once in a row, I was successfully able to initiate a phone call to my wife and voice quality was acceptable on both ends.
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'99 Canyon Red RETIRED AT 93,000 MI
'05 GRAPHITE METALLIC retired at 87,000 MI
'01 R1150 GS- totaled
'02 R1150 GS sold
'85 K100/EML sidecar sold
'11 R1200RT currently being enjoyed
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  #84  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 8:07 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

I believe" failure to communicate" comes from Cool Hand Luke.
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  #85  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 10:20 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
..................The assumption that my Garmin 2820 is not hard wired to the bike audio for voice prompts is correct. I have the hardware to do that but prefer to use the Bluetooth connection directly to the Garmin and so will continue to experiment in the hopes of finding a workable connect/disconnect sequence. OH yea, I also have my Android phone paired to my Garmin and, again I must stipulate "once in a row, I was successfully able to initiate a phone call to my wife and voice quality was acceptable on both ends.
I didn't know it was possible to hard wire the 2820 to the RT except via the "audio in" connnection in the "glove box"?

I am following your progress closely as we have nearly identical GPSs....but I have little use for the phone (although I did connect my Sena to the GPS and to the phone with success; but only as a test).

I am going to the garage now to attempt to pair my Sena with the RT.......hopefully it will pair fine.....and continue to do so after multiple start ups and shut downs! More to be posted here........
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  #86  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 11:06 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
.....I am going to the garage now to attempt to pair my Sena with the RT.......hopefully it will pair fine.....and continue to do so after multiple start ups and shut downs! More to be posted here........
Crap. It didn't go well......Tried to follow the directions in my checklist above.
Turned on the Sena
RESET on the RT's BT
Then BT ON and PAIRING and HELMET 1 on the RT
Then BT icon on the RT flashed....seems like the RT read fashing either "pairing" or "searching", I've forgotten.....
Then 5 seconds presing the phone button on the Sena
Then pressed Sena's jog dial to get "Media Selective Pairing" on the Sena......and I waited....and waited....

The RT seemed to "give up" on pairing (during the initial Pairing Search on the LCD screen) after about 10 seconds, although the Sena seemed to be happy to wait longer. After about 4 attempts I gave up as I don't have my Battery Tender attached yet and I was afraid I'd kill the RT's battery.

I'm sure I'm doing something basic wrong, as nobody (I think here) is having any trouble with the intial Sena to RT pairing, right?

Tom, John or Lynn, can you list the procedures you used for initial pairing with the RT and Sena (no GPS, no Phone).

Thanks
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  #87  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 12:03 pm
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12R12RT 12R12RT is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
...
Then BT icon on the RT flashed....seems like the RT read fashing either "pairing" or "searching", I've forgotten.....
Then 5 seconds presing the phone button on the Sena
Then pressed Sena's jog dial to get "Media Selective Pairing" on the Sena......and I waited....and waited....

The RT seemed to "give up" on pairing (during the initial Pairing Search on the LCD screen) after about 10 seconds, ...
There's a problem in there somewhere. The RT Audio system should be very clearly displaying "PAIRING". If it's not, it's not!

The BlueTooeth icon will flash when it is looking for an already paired device or when looking to pair, so the fact that it is flashing isn't a positive indication of what it is doing.

It won't give up after 10 seconds, either. I think it will search for at least a minute.

The directions I gave earlier are what I use; you need to make sure you've gotten to the point where you see "PAIRING" on the display.

Tom
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  #88  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 12:08 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
Crap. It didn't go well......

I'm sure I'm doing something basic wrong, as nobody (I think here) is having any trouble with the intial Sena to RT pairing, right?


Thanks

Sorry you're having problems but you may not necessarily be doing anything wrong, as I had several "false starts" and a failure or two before my Sena and RT finally paired up successfully. I had to do a factory-default setting reset on the Sena before the final and lasting pairing occurred.

Tom was kind enough to walk me through it per his written instructions and they worked fine.

Hang in there. I was ready to give up on it but finally got things going. I do understand your frustration.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 12:10 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
Tom, I'm guessing, but I think Lynn does not have a wired connection between his Garmin 2820 and his RT....he is hoping to connect the GPS to his Sena and also his RT to his Sena. Starting to sound like that's an issue! Am I correct that you have a BMW Zumo installed in your RT? the optional "Navigation option"? So it is hard wired to the RT's audio system?...
Yes, I know Lynn doesn't have a hardwire connection to his RT. The nature of his BT connection is what bothers me.

Again, I'm not familiar with the 2820 Garmin, so I may be wrong in the following:

If he is pairing his Android to the Garmin in HFP mode, then the only other mode left to pair with the Sena is A2DP.

The Sena only supports one A2DP connection. Thus, if he then pairs the Sena to the RT, that is with A2DP as that is all the RT supports.

The result will be that, when the RT and the GPS are turned on and trying to connect to the Sena, the Sena doesn't know what to do as there are two A2DP requests to connect coming in, yet only one can be supported. It seems to be choosing connecting to the GPS, which may be due to the priority order built in to the Sena.

To
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  #90  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Lynn_Keen Lynn_Keen is online now
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deek
I didn't know it was possible to hard wire the 2820 to the RT except via the "audio in" connnection in the "glove box"?
I believe one of the 3 unused connectors located behind the fairing above the triple tree is intended for GPS audio. The other two are for GPS power and the Rear Speaker function.
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'99 Canyon Red RETIRED AT 93,000 MI
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  #91  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 4:07 pm
Lynn_Keen Lynn_Keen is online now
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
Yes, I know Lynn doesn't have a hardwire connection to his RT. The nature of his BT connection is what bothers me.

Again, I'm not familiar with the 2820 Garmin, so I may be wrong in the following:

If he is pairing his Android to the Garmin in HFP mode, then the only other mode left to pair with the Sena is A2DP.

The Sena only supports one A2DP connection. Thus, if he then pairs the Sena to the RT, that is with A2DP as that is all the RT supports.

The result will be that, when the RT and the GPS are turned on and trying to connect to the Sena, the Sena doesn't know what to do as there are two A2DP requests to connect coming in, yet only one can be supported. It seems to be choosing connecting to the GPS, which may be due to the priority order built in to the Sena.

To
Being an 'ol Phart I get lost pretty quickly in this hi-tech world and as such don't fully understand things like HFP and A2DP but perhaps just as a stroke of luck here's how I set up my audio and gps pairing.

Did all the resets and followed the process described by Tom in Post #3 in this thread. That gave me a successful connection between SENA and BMW radio. I then used the Multi Point paring method described in paragraph 6.3.1 in the SENA manual. That resulted in a successful connection between SENA and 2820 GPS. Connecting the phone to the GPS is straight forward.

I spent most of today in my workshop messing with the bike and made around half a dozen successful Bluetooth connections between SENA/GPS-Phone. The sequence I used was as follows;
START UP
1 Turn phone Bluetooth OFF
2 Turn on SENA
3 Turn on BMW radio (Bluetooth symbol on bike display flashing and then after 10 +/- seconds turns solid and radio playing through headset)
4 Turn on GPS followed by activation phone Bluetooth (monitor Bluetooth status on GPS and again after 10 or more seconds it shows SENA and phone CONNECTED)

SHUT DOWN
1 Turn off SENA
2 Turn off GPS
3 Turn off radio

As I said, this procedure worked successfully roughly a half dozen times. I have no idea whether or not the sequence described is critical or not but it worked and I wanted to be consistent for this experiment. I think some of my earlier trouble was caused by impatience. The time required from initially requesting a connection until it is successfully completed seems longer than I expected and previously I may have been aborting attempts prematurely.

Cheers
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  #92  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 5:13 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Well done, Lynn, and congratulations.

I believe the key was pairing to the RT first, which assures that the pairing is via A2DP.

The, by using the multi-point pairing the Sena knows to pair to the GPS in HFP mode, so it's not flailing about not knowing what to do.

What I'm surprised about, and this shows the limits of my knowledge about what the Garmin devices will do, is that the 2820 was able to pair both with the Sena and phone. I would have thought that not possible with my Zumo and I'm going to have to go try it.

No matter, though, the fact that it works is all that matters!

Enjoy.

Tom
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  #93  
Old Feb 7th, 2013, 7:21 pm
jeffkyle jeffkyle is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

All you folks that have paired Sena to BMW R1200RT bluetooth.. What did it sound like? Mine was terrible sound... like an old am radio....Then installed bluetooth dongle to rear speakers output, and sound is great... .just wondering if I am missing something....
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 8:59 pm
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkyle
All you folks that have paired Sena to BMW R1200RT bluetooth.. What did it sound like? Mine was terrible sound... like an old am radio....Then installed bluetooth dongle to rear speakers output, and sound is great... .just wondering if I am missing something....
Through the wafer helmet speakers the music sounds okay. Maybe a little flat in the EQ dept. However, I also bought the adapter plate that allows me to plug in my Etymotic ear buds and, with them, the music sound is very nice! Maybe not quite as good as when my Etymotics are plugged directly into my iPod Nano but close. I don't know the technical specs on Bluetooth (i.e., what sort of frequency response and dynamic range it transmits)
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Old Feb 8th, 2013, 6:59 am
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
There's a problem in there somewhere. The RT Audio system should be very clearly displaying "PAIRING". If it's not, it's not!

The BlueTooeth icon will flash when it is looking for an already paired device or when looking to pair, so the fact that it is flashing isn't a positive indication of what it is doing.

It won't give up after 10 seconds, either. I think it will search for at least a minute.

The directions I gave earlier are what I use; you need to make sure you've gotten to the point where you see "PAIRING" on the display.

Tom
Thanks Tom, I appreciate the help!

I did see "PAIRING".......and the little BT icon was flashing.....but nothing ever happened. I believe I tried 3-4 times, but quit when I figured the battery might go down. It did take me a while to get to the SEARCHING point on the RT......I wasn't pushing the wheel on the RT long enough I guess.

I installed the Battery Tender connector last night and it's been charging, so I will try again today. Sometimes a fresh start helps.

If the Sena had not so easily connected to my cell phone, then my GPS (as two separate devices, the cell was NOT connected to the GPS first), then I'd think something was wrong with the Sena. During the attempted RT toSena pairing, just which device (RT or Sena) is the one that's doing all the work? For instance, when pairing the Cell to the Sena, I see the headset's name on the cell phone, and on the GPS I see the Sena's name......but there is no place on the RT to see the Sena's name. So how do I know when the pairing process is completed? A couple time yesterday the RT screen read "PAIRING", and after maybe 20 second or so I turned off the RT's audio, then turned it back on, figuring to "clear" any issues and start over....but the screen still read "PAIRING" until I did a rest.
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  #96  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 7:02 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkyle
All you folks that have paired Sena to BMW R1200RT bluetooth.. What did it sound like? Mine was terrible sound... like an old am radio....Then installed bluetooth dongle to rear speakers output, and sound is great... .just wondering if I am missing something....
When you do that, you are still using BT to the Sena, right? Where is the setting on the RT - Speakers or BT? Seems like it must still be BT otherwise your dash speaker would be "on", right?
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Gone:
2009 BMW R1200RT
2006 BMW R1200RT
2007 Royal Star Venture
2007 V-Strom DL1000
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  #97  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 7:12 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropyd
Sorry you're having problems but you may not necessarily be doing anything wrong, as I had several "false starts" and a failure or two before my Sena and RT finally paired up successfully. I had to do a factory-default setting reset on the Sena before the final and lasting pairing occurred.

Tom was kind enough to walk me through it per his written instructions and they worked fine.

Hang in there. I was ready to give up on it but finally got things going. I do understand your frustration.
Thanks for the encouragement. How is the headset audio (for music) anyway? I was surprised how decent the RT's speakers worked even at highway speeds. But then my standards are pretty low.....

Today I plan to try again to pair the RT to the Sena. I think I will do a "factory reset" as you did.....I'd already deleted the pairing info from my earlier pairs with my Nav III GPS and cell phone before I tried in vain to pair with the RT yesterday. But I wonder if a reset as you mentioned with drop all the revised firmware versions on the Sena? I need to connect to my PC and determine what version I have first I suppose.....

Wish me luck!
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2013 BMW R1200RT
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2007 V-Strom DL1000
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  #98  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 7:26 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT
Yes, I know Lynn doesn't have a hardwire connection to his RT. The nature of his BT connection is what bothers me.

Again, I'm not familiar with the 2820 Garmin, so I may be wrong in the following:

If he is pairing his Android to the Garmin in HFP mode, then the only other mode left to pair with the Sena is A2DP.

The Sena only supports one A2DP connection. Thus, if he then pairs the Sena to the RT, that is with A2DP as that is all the RT supports.

The result will be that, when the RT and the GPS are turned on and trying to connect to the Sena, the Sena doesn't know what to do as there are two A2DP requests to connect coming in, yet only one can be supported. It seems to be choosing connecting to the GPS, which may be due to the priority order built in to the Sena.

To
I'm slow today, but I think the bottom line for my desires (RT audio in the headset with an iPod connected to the RT) is to NOT attempt to connect the phone NOR the cell phone, right? If I can get theRT-Sena working, I'll then try to additionally pair the GPS.....doubt I'll ever bother with the cell, but if I do, I must pair it with the GPS.....not directly to the Sena. But from your notes it sounds like that is unlikely to be 100% successfuly.....and I value reliable performance above just about anything else. I can easily and happily live with just RT audio to the Sena......I can live without GPS audio and the cell phone without giving it another thought.

Make sense?

You asked earlier the capabilites of the Nav III as far as use with a cell.....I have a BMW Navigator III manual for several years but have never read that part.....because I've never had the need to use the cell. But I can look that part up if anyone wants to know, or send anyone the manual - it's a PDF file.

BTW, my helmet is a Nolan N-43e Trilogy....the Sena is not yet connected.....looks like it might be more complicated to mount that I originally thought. I am going to start a new thread on the BMW LT RT forum about that......hopefully someone here has a similar helmet.
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2013 BMW R1200RT
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2006 BMW R1200RT
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2007 V-Strom DL1000
2006 VTX 1300R
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  #99  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 7:29 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
I believe one of the 3 unused connectors located behind the fairing above the triple tree is intended for GPS audio. The other two are for GPS power and the Rear Speaker function.
Ah, that would be helpful. My dealer was of the opinion there was no way to connect that on the 2013 RT to my old Nav III GPS. I will have to quiz him again in more detail. He did connect the power cable to the GPS power plug.
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Deek aka adVentureMan
2013 BMW R1200RT
2012 Triumph Tiger 800
Gone:
2009 BMW R1200RT
2006 BMW R1200RT
2007 Royal Star Venture
2007 V-Strom DL1000
2006 VTX 1300R
2005 V* Classic
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  #100  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 7:43 am
Deek Deek is offline
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Re: Failure to communicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
....

Did all the resets and followed the process described by Tom in Post #3 in this thread. That gave me a successful connection between SENA and BMW radio.
I then used the Multi Point paring method described in paragraph 6.3.1 in the SENA manual. That resulted in a successful connection between SENA and 2820 GPS. Connecting the phone to the GPS is straight forward.

I spent most of today in my workshop messing with the bike and made around half a dozen successful Bluetooth connections between SENA/GPS-Phone. The sequence I used was as follows;
START UP
1 Turn phone Bluetooth OFF
2 Turn on SENA
3 Turn on BMW radio (Bluetooth symbol on bike display flashing and then after 10 +/- seconds turns solid and radio playing through headset)
4 Turn on GPS followed by activation phone Bluetooth (monitor Bluetooth status on GPS and again after 10 or more seconds it shows SENA and phone CONNECTED)

SHUT DOWN
1 Turn off SENA
2 Turn off GPS
3 Turn off radio

As I said, this procedure worked successfully roughly a half dozen times. I have no idea whether or not the sequence described is critical or not but it worked and I wanted to be consistent for this experiment. I think some of my earlier trouble was caused by impatience. The time required from initially requesting a connection until it is successfully completed seems longer than I expected and previously I may have been aborting attempts prematurely.

Cheers
Good for YOU! You are my inspiration, Lynn!

I'm going to try this as soon as I have my coffee and drag myself down to the garage:

Cell phone and GPS both turned off. RT and Sena turned off.

Do all the resets and followed the process described by Tom in Post #3 in this thread. Hopefully that will give me a successful connection between SENA and BMW radio.

Wish me luck!

".... I think some of my earlier trouble was caused by impatience. The time required from initially requesting a connection until it is successfully completed seems longer than I expected and previously I may have been aborting attempts prematurely. ..."

I'm hoping that is true in my case yesterday, trying to do the initial pairing between the RT and Sena.....seemed like it ought to have paired in around 8-10 seconds, but this time I'll just let it try until it finally times out.....I think Tom said a minute maybe?

If that doesn't work, I'll do a "factory reset" of the Sena and start again. I am reluctant to do a factory reset until it's obvious that it's not going to pair. I don't know what good, revised things I'd drop with a factory reset....
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