Maybe I just have not been in this situation before but yesterday on a 2 hour trip, that became 4, I came to a place where traffic was VERY slow creeping along for about an hour.... What bothered me was the RT HEAT indicator soared over a matter of like 20 minutes in this environment. I ended up getting to a point where traffic just STOPPED and I was able to turn the bike off and let it cool down.... I assume this is just a product of AIR COOLED RT???? Is that normal and to be expected when dealing with large traffic jams on the RT or should it not overheat like I described? Sorry if this is something I should have known; but still considering myself a newby I always like to ask rather than assume....
Thanks in advance!
Jed

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2008 R1200RT Blue
http://members.cox.net/jedryan

It's rare I find myself in stop and go when the ambient temps are over ninety but when I did recently I just found a shady spot and shut it off . Pain in the neck but did not want to cook my engine. I also took the emergency lane once to get around the cars but got pulled over and he made me wait till they went by. Either way I didn't cook the engine.

RT's like ours are partially air partially oil cooled so if it is overheating that much , more than two bars, you could be low on oil. I've owned porsches, and they hold 13quarts of oil which is fine until you get all 13 of them hot then your done . So logic would say stop and go in really hot air is best avoided when possible . Stop and go is something I avoid at all cost due to the fact it is really hard on the dry clutch. Especially when hills are involved.

These are the reality of air/oil cooled engines with dry clutches. I'm sure it is the same with Ducati's. Let's face it , they were designed for the UK not Texas.........LOL

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No matter where you go , there you are.

That is utterly rediculous! Bikes are not cars and they should be allowed to get around a traffic jam! The laws which restrict this are wrong and the cops who enforce those restrictive laws are asses! He made you wait until all the cars that you passed then passed by you?! At least he did not ticket you and make you pay hard earned cash after he embarrased you! Shame on that cop! If everyone drove a bike there would be no traffic jams!

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Some good safety information links from Motorcycle Safety Foundation:
http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/
http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/motorcycle-survival
http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/...g-system-abs/37
http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cf...agename=Library

Thanks great information. Checked the oil level and that is good; so I guess it was just a product of the SLOOOOOOW moving traffic in Virginia with the high heat and humidity that cause the heat issue.... Yeah the heat indicator bar reached 1 bar from the top at one point then luckily traffic dead stopped for about 30 minutes and I cut off the bike and level dropped way down... Of course standing on the highway in all your gear for an hour while cars are running all around you blasting their AC and generating more heat gets a bit annoying; but it is what it is!
Thanks again for the info!
Jed

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2008 R1200RT Blue
http://members.cox.net/jedryan

I put computer fans behind my oil cooler. My bike can sit and idle all day and the temp guage never goes past half.

Howd you work that? pics, please

I have the same problem with over-heating when idling in traffic for 15 to 20 minutes; I am based in Manila, Philippines which is prone to traffic (but not so many traffic rules.....). Have to force your way between the traffic, or turn the bike off.

I like the suggestion of installing computer fans behind the oil cooler. If pictures could be posted then that would be great for reference.

I was informed that the Police Version of the RT (BMW R1200RT-P) has a built in fan to overcome this problem, however I was informed by BMW the RT cannot be retro-fitted to suit.

Safe riding and pray for no traffic jams

Not actually correct -- while the RT doesn't have the RT-P's wiring harness with thermostatic control over the fan, the RT-P fan and its shroud can be fitted to the RT, and power wired and a manual switch can be added to control the fan.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

I cannot think of a better reason for lane sharing and splitting in all 50 states !!!!!!!!!!!! It is absolutely ridiculous you cannot do this in at least large cities like New York, D.C., Atlanta, etc. It is safer for the motorcyclist for sure vs.sitting in a traffic jam possibly to be rear ended. Didn't we have a female rider killed in this manner?

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'05 1200 RT, Ruby, as in RED, (current garage queen)
'04 1150 RT, '99 Ducati 748 BiPosto, '93 Seca II, '93 K1100RS (Silk Blue), '83 Yamaha Maxim 750 (all gone)

No, she was killed sitting at a light -- a truck essentially ran her down from behind. From the news reports, lane-splitting wouldn't have helped (she was already at the line).

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

It's kind a hard to take a good picture because if the fan location. If anyone wants details PM me and I can describe what I did.

I'll be installing the RT-P fan this week; I'll try to remember to take pics.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Keep us posted with pics and all the good information, like, Where do you get the RT-P fan and shroud? How much does it cost, or what type of fans and what size are they? Plenty of pics! It would be greatly appreciated by many here. I will be installing a pair of computer fans, if I need to. I have had 4 different Bm'rs that were air/oil cooled. One time on a 2001 R1200 GS, It overheated very fast in traffic up in the mountains in summer.
I Turned it off and let it cool for about 20 minutes and after that it never ever did it again.

Boxxer's don't do well overheated, that is why the manual tells you not to let your bike warm up, it says to start it and ride away! I usually give it a few slow easy revs to build the oil preassire up before I start.

Look for ward to the inf.

I live in So. Cal. If in heavy traffic, over 90degrees outside temp. it will get hot. This is why lane sharing and use of carpool lane is allowed. Also try to shut the bike off at stoplights. I also take it easier in the canyons, and try to keep the revs down. It is still fun, but you need to keep an eye on it in the summer.

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2006 R1200RT

I put one computer fan on my '06 RT and it helped a liittle. This year I put two on my 09 and it helped much more.

Not that tough to mount. Buy a piece of aluminum angle and mount two computer fans on it. Bolt it to the two holes you will find on either side of the oil cooler. Wire it up with a switch to turn it on and off.

I have run the same fan for two years and even though it got wet, wet, wet...works just fine.

Factory RT-P setup will cost you big $$$. MIne cost me about 25 bucks (u.s.) and no one ever see's the fans.

Too tough to get good pics....but it is an easy install.

Ok, a few pics and factoids from my OE fan install:

Front/back views of the cooler, pre-install. Note that in the rear view, the two clipnuts and Torx screws for the fan shroud have already been put in place:



Front and rear views of the fan and duct, already assembled (3 screws and washers req'd to hold fan to duct). Note that at first it will seem that the screws are going in crooked, but that's because the fan sits at a slight angle to the duct, not exactly perpendicular:



Assembly in place. Note the bottom leading edge lip of the housing extending to the front of the oil cooler:



One minor item to be addressed in the installation: My RT has cruise control, and the actuator unit is mounted such that there's about a 1/8"-1/4" overlap at the lower right rear corner of the fan housing. A minor bit of trimming eliminated the issue:



The upper edge of the right rear corner was in contact with the top of the cruise actuator. Trimming wasn't absolutely necessary, but I clipped the corner to ensure there won't be any future vibration-induced rattles from their close proximity. First pic is the left upper rear corner to show the "before shape"; second pic is the right, as-trimmed shape:



FInal views -- good clearance, and no need to alter the cruise actuator bracket to move the actuator:



Last pic (for now -- I will power the fan through a relay and a manual switch (one of the factory rocker switches in the add-on two-switch handgrip housing). I had previously removed the charcoal canister from my bike, so I used one of the canister bracket mounting screws to secure the relay up in a pretty weather protected location. The right upper fuel tank mount is directly behind the relay in this pic (note the wiring looks crappy because nothing is wired yet -- I'll complete a sufficiently AR tidy-up of the wires before it all goes back together):


The parts listing from my dealer is:

46 63 7 690 869 Fan shroud (1) $26.09
17 11 7 656 030 Fan (1) $230.94
07 11 9 931 026 Flat washer (3) $1.16/ea
63 12 7 682 829 Screw (3) $1.54/ea
06 32 7 651 204 Torx bolt (2) $ 0.60/ea
51 12 7 070 202 Clipnut (2) $1.00/ea

One last part number to provide: My dealer is off to get me the female connector that matches the male connector on the fan, so that I can complete the wiring with the factory connectors. As soon as I have the part number, I'll post it.

A note about the $$$ for the factory parts: I'm all for saving some bux by cobbling together a good, serviceable alternative, such as computer fan(s) -- I've done exactly the same sort of thing myself many times. In this case, I currently have very little spare time, so having a nearly complete (except wiring) "plug-n-play" arrangement, plus not having to have that nagging question in my mind all the time about whether the fan will survive the weather exposure, made spending the extra money for the factory parts worthwhile -- for me. Obviously, YMMV. Neither approach is "better" than the other; this is what worked for me this go-round.

Happy to take/answer Qs.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Nice Work

This is just a post to do a $30-40 version instead of $260 if people don't have the money.

One thing is not to get cheap low RPM fans. If you do they will overspin and self destruct. I've put at least 6 of them on Motorcycles and Quads but never anything traveling faster then 80mph. I can't guarantee the fans wont self destruct in a 130mph headwind. That's why I'm mentioning thick bladed, high RPM, double ball bearing fans put behind the oil cooler, not in front.

I have a 2004 R1150RT Police model so it already has the factory fans. I looked at my cooler and it looked like you can fit in three of these $11.99 fans here. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811999612 Make sure to double check the oil cooling size and clearance as each bike is different. They are Dual Ball Bearing Fans with a total of 252 CFM. I did some calculations and that's the same oil cooling as driving at 13.9 mph. If you find the fans too noisy you could put a resister in to drop the voltage down.



Total Cost shipped about $38.00.

I'm not sure if you guys have the same setup but if you try putting in some weak low RPM non ball bearing fans. You'll not get the cooling or longevity you need. For example: three 30 CFM 80mm Fans will only push a maximum air of 4.9 mph

Here is an air flow Calculator link.

http://www.comairrotron.com/airflow_calc.shtml

Hi!

Just dropping in from The Netherlands (Im actually and English ex-pat) after finding BMWLT by accident. Its actually virtually identical to my regular haunt www.bmrider.com , an English- based forum. I also joined www.bmwsporttouring.com recently, but find it a bit too boisterous compared to here and BMR. Not as bad as UKGSer though...

Anyway, Im here because Im a kindred overheated spirit and this is the first time Ive seen anyone else post a thread on hot running.

I started a thread on BMR HERE and an identical thread on BMST HERE . Not much response on the UK forum, but I caused a small storm on the other... A lot of people quite negative about the whole idea, but a lot of them never having experienced the problem, or even riding the bikes it occurs on!

So, hello!

Hi Technologist! nice to see you here and you've answered a question I posted to you on BMST...

JRESURF- interesting to see you've experienced it on the 1200RT. Ive got the 1150RT and had it last happen on a blisteringly hot summers day trying to escape from Antwerpen without sweating to death in traffic! I do think you guys in the US dont get stuck in city traffic so much as us Euros do...

After much, much, much.... research (thanks to Technologist for his helpful comments ) Ive come up with this-






Its a bit more expensive than Technologists three-fan set-up and uses two 80mm fans rated to 102CFM/ 31mmH2O/ 1.5amps/ 60dBA each, which on the 1100/1150 cooler gives a rough airspeed of just under 12mph. Cost 15.78euro ($23USD) each, plus shipping.
Ive also seen two units rated at 132CFM/ 51mmH2O/ 2.75amps/ 62dBA each- giving a theoretical airflow of 15mph for 21Euro/ $31USD apiece.

Its worth noting that the BM unit is 'waterproof' whereas these 'computer-style' fans are not. Waterproof versions are prohibitively expensive for a home build/cheap aftermarket solution and draw far more power. My view is that the fans will predominantly be usd in hot/dry weather and would be removed in autumn for cleaning/oiling before the cold/wet sets in.

Im about to road-test mine over winter- so may be about to wreck 60 euros worth of kit; or discover Ive got a winning design!


Id really like to hear from the good citizens of BMWLT if theyve ever been worried by hot running on their 1100/1150/1200RT's.

Glad to know Im not the only one thinking about this!

Reviewing the 1200RT-P fan photos, it surprises me a little that the fan only effectively covers about half of the cooler, and is off-set mounted. The rest of the cooler is normally aspirated. I wonder if that is to help at speed? Id love to know what the CFM specs are for the BM fan!!!

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James

I don't have the exact number, but the CFM is *huge* -- when you turn on the fan, it sounds like you're standing in a NASA wind tunnel. *Lots* of airflow.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Very nice mod! I too prefer to use stock parts in lieu of aftermarket if possible. How about posting a wiring diagram with relay type/size and wire size or did the fan come with a wiring diagram so you knew what size relay and wiring to use. I'm assuming the relay was an aftermarket generic type from an auto parts store since you didn't list a part no.. Did you ever think about using a temp switch in lieu of a toggle switch? or tying into the bikes temp switch to activate when needed? Thanks again for sharing your mod.

I do not have an easy way to post a diagram at hand, but the wiring is very basic.

Battery power to terminal 30 on the relay,
Ignition switched 12V+ to a handlebar-mounted switch (I used the BMW two-switch cluster)
Output from the switch to terminal 85 on the relay,
Connect relay terminal 86 to ground,
Output from relay terminal 87 (not 87a) to the positive wire on the fan, and
Connect the ground (brown) wire from the fan to ground.

For the relay, I used a standard 30 amp relay, primarily because I buy them in lots of 10 with the corresponding pre-wired relay sockets from Hosfelt Electronics (www.Hosfelt.com). The wire gauge of the socket wires is considerably heavier than that of the BMW fan wires (the BMW wires are ~16 gauge (at most). The wiring to/from the switch can be very light -- it only carries enough current to trigger/hold the relay solenoid.

For convenience, I also had my dealer's parts manager order a "repair" connector that corresponds to the plug on the factory fan, so I can simply unplug the fan, rather than desolder wires, if needed in the future. The repair connector comes with bare pigtails, which soldered directly to the wires from the relay socket. The polarity is plain: brown is ground on virtually everything BMW builds, so the other, colored wire (yellow? red? can't remember) is the positive line.

As to thermostatic control, that would be ideal for some folks, but it wasn't worth the hassle to me to obtain and install the RT-P thermal switch on the oil line at the top right side of the block, particularly given how infrequently I expect the fan will be needed. And in any event, I prefer direct control over the fan operation, so a handlebar switch was my preference (and with a BMW three-wire switch, I could opt to wire the switch so that its indicator light is only on when the fan is on).

HTH,

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Since you brought up asses, which of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation links in your signature will direct me to the explanation that bikes "should be allowed to get around a traffic jam" even if doing so involves violating the law? Yeah, that's what I thought.

I've found myself in the situation of the bike overheating many times myself and my normal solution is to just shut the bike off. Most H-D police motors are equipped with the optional cooling fan which is large and does a pretty good job. Unfortunately, it also carries a $450 price tag. Late-model Harleys, like my '08 Electra Glide, have a computer-controlled engine heat management program that shuts down the rear cylinder when it reaches a certain temperature. This helps, but only to a point. Some of the ideas in this thread are pretty darn good and I may try one of these options myself because I haven't been able to bring myself to spend $450 for the H-D option.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper #3936 (retired 4-1-1991)
2009 R1200RT - sapphire black metallic

Im trying to get basic template designs made for 2 and 3 fan set-ups on the 1100/1150 and 1200RTs, using 80mm fans.

Im also thinking of trying to measure the air pressure differential across the cooler at different roadspeeds, just to get an idea of how effective 'natural' ventilation really is.... just for fun...

Critically, if you are designing your own mounting plate, just make sure you have room behind the cooler of the fans and dont mount them so the screws touch the cooling fins/elements- the vibration may wear them through!

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James

Also, don't make a flat plat that goes across the back of the cooler with holes for the fans -- there needs to be space between the plate and the back of the cooler in the non-fan areas to allow continued air flow through the sections of the cooler not in front of the fans.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

My unit has at least 6mm clearance.

If you're really getting technical, you can partitition each fan from the next. That means each fan operates its own zone and if one fails, you dont get 'draw-back' through the duff fan. In all honesty, its probably not a worry if the fans are placed closer to the cooler than to each other (see my pic- each unit sits in the middle of each half of the cooler with over 20mm between them). With good maintenance/cleaning and a normal life-span for many fans of 30-50,000 hours (at 20 degC) many may even out-last the bike(!). A 50000hr lifespan is good for at least 90,000 miles!

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James

Sounds like you have that covered -- just wanted to warn others that might not have thought through this part of it.

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Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

I really dont want to hijack the thread, but thought maybe you'd like to see the video i made of my home-made fan modification...

And I know I cant present for toffee....



Enjoy...

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James

To Mr. Boxercooliong: Are you willing to sell your fans?

Thanks for the interest Talbrecht!

Im just running the figures on whether its viable for me to make and sell complete units (without wiring/switches/connectors), or just sell the mounting plates (as my source for the fans is in the USA), or just sell the production drawings/parts sourcing info for people to make it themselves. Obviously I have limited capabilities with my home tools and Im also considering putting my designs to Wunderlich as they'd be able to finist the final product to a far higher standard thanI can- they have the tooling to (perhaps) produce them more cheaply.

I will post some speculative prices shortly...

Thanks again.

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James

If you are worried about fan overspeed can you add a dynamic brake?
87 would be the voltage input to the relay 30 output to the fan and 87a output to the brake.
Just a thought.

Its a nice thought, but any fan over the 50CFM mark will be rated for a good 4000rpm or so.
The 102CFM Deltas operate to 7500rpm with a 50000hr lifespan, so should be more than capable of higher speeds. Bear in mind (and this would bear some scientific testing) the inlet to the coolers is relatively small and with the vanes, restricted, and a large ammount of air enters the front of the fairing around the wheel, so I wonder just how much of a pressure differential there would be to 'overdrive' the fans? Cant see it being a problem...
Also consider the extra cost of a fan unit with the additional electronis feature. Its not really worth the extra complexity...

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James

Well, Im not sure that people would want to spend out on kit which would obviously look home-made when they can make it themselves. A full kit (without wiring) would cost between 85 euros for a twin-fan setup, to 115 euros for a triple-fan kit. But then you have postage/import duty etc...
Bracket only would be in the region of 45-55euros, and if you were to make your own full kit with fans complete from scratch, it'd probably cost about 75 euros, plus wiring...
Im frankly nervous about supplying fans to other people, not being able to offer warranty and so on... Im currently in contact with Wunderlich to see if they're interested in my ideas. If not, I'll post my designs for peoples inspiration...

In all honesty, Im just out of steam right now having to look for work again...

Anyway, here's some info on the wiring loom I made. I'd originally got my Autocom and phone charger all wired into the tail-lamp, but had known for ages it wasnt ideal. I also think the current drain was fooling the Motronic into thinking the tail-lamp was good when one time it was blown...
Having to make wiring for the fans, I decided to go the whole hog and make something to power the Autocom, fans, accessories and any lighting I may want to add to the bike in the future... Took a few days in the garage!

Heres the wiring schematics-


I hope its fairly self-explanatory, but I may have the pin numbers on the relays wrong...
power is initially supplied from the OE plug behind the left front fairing panel. Note that my 1150RT doesnt have a Radio.

The two thinner wires are linked into the indicator circuit (maybe something to do with an OE alarm?) but the thick brown is a direct earth and the the thick red/white is connected to the same accessory circuit as the heated grips/accessory sockets, and IIRC is all powered through the 15A fuse 4 in the fuse box. I didnt want to have to hunt for a suitable plug for the two righthand pins...

...So I made my own from (3.5mm) automotive bullet connectors! Firstly they need to be carefully crimped down to a snug fit around a 2.45mm drill-bit-


And then a gentle application of heat to shrink the insulator so it will fit inside the OE plug-


Heres the complete loom as corresponding to the schematic-


The two relays are mounted on a bracket which attaches inside the headlamp fairing behind the mirror mountings, probably where the loudspeakers would be mounted...
Not the easiest thing to make or mount-



The loom and plugs need to sit just forward of the subframe, otherwise its too close to the radio box/glove compartment when the fairing is put back in place.

A positive feed is spliced from the front parking/side light to switch the main accessory ('LOw-Load') relay on. This supplies power from the OE plug (hence the bikes own fused accessory circuit) to AC1 which sits in the front fairing for future use, and to AC3 which is mounted under the seat by the fuse box. From AC3 I can run a supressor or a splitter for phone/GPS/Autocoms; and my autocom is currently mounted in the area behind the rear seat. Incidentally, I took the opportunity to run the riders Autocom lead under the tank fairing to the glove-box , where it tucks away nicely and can be easilly retrieved and fitted in a holder I mounted near the front of the tank fairing panel, just out of the way of the handlebars and tank-bag.
Power is also fed from the 'low-load' relay to a switch I mounted on the left handlebar, which activates the 'high-load' relay. This has a new, 15A fused feed directly to/from the battery and is currently used to operate the fans. At some point, I may use AC1 for the fans (permanent-on with ignition on) over the summer nd retain the 'high-load' circuit for extra lamps.
Basically, I just wanted to make it as flexible as possible!
All my two-pin connectors are of the Nikko/Tamiya radio-controlled car battery-connector type and easilly available from model/hobby shops everywhere. The gold-plated connectors arent the sturdiest in the world, but do offer a good and cheap connection. Its also not as if they are going to be pulled apart very often, and if well assembled shouldnt cause any problems.
I have routed the battery leads for the 'high' circuit, and the two wires for the AC3 loop along the bikes main wiring loom on the left-hand side of the bike.

Touch wood- no problems so far!

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James