I can't BELIEVE what this imbecile CEO said last week.

This is the same moron that flew his corporate jet to Washington to beg for OUR money - and at the same time hosted a lavish week long party for his employees taking over an entire private island - with YOUR money authorized by Congress. (but that's another story...)

It is truly unfortunate that a company like GM has to be put to rest, but our future as a nation depends on capitalism working EXACTLY the way it is supposed to.

Here's what Jeff Matthews has to say (and I have to agree with him) about the current situation:

GM said it might need as much as $100 billion in financing from the government if it were to go through the traditional bankruptcy process. Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and chief executive, said the bankruptcy scenarios are "risky" and "costly," and would only be pursued as a last resort.
—WSJ February 18, 2009


The most irresponsible thing you’ll read this weekend is—well, you’ve already read it, we think.

That would be General Motor’s Chairman and CEO, Rick Wagoner’s threat that a GM bankruptcy would be “risky” and “costly.”

Why irresponsible? Well, think about those words for a minute.

Think about the fact that GM stock was above $60 a share when Wagoner was made CEO in June of 2000—last trade $1.95.

Think about the fact that GM has reported losses of close to $70 billion in the last three-and-three quarters years under Mr. Wagoner’s leadership.

Think about the fact that GM is a 101 year-old company which under Mr. Wagoner has accumulated negative retained earnings of $60 billion-and-climbing—meaning that in more than 100 years of operation, the company has not managed to keep a dime’s worth of retained earnings for its shareholders.

And ask yourself if letting GM continue as it is could be any riskier, and any more costly, than it’s been as a public company under Mr. Wagoner.

Now, we have no doubt the political money-launderers in Washington—of both parties—will agree with Mr. Wagoner, and will continue to fund GM in what essentially amounts to nothing more complicated than a continued effort to secure Michigan Electoral College votes for each party’s future Presidential bids.

But that wouldn’t make the statement that a bankrupt GM would somehow be riskier, and more costly, than GM as an independent public company has been, any less irresponsible.

Jeff Matthews
I Am Not Making This Up

© 2008 NotMakingThisUp, LLC

As far as I'm concerned they need to have the last shovel of dirt thrown on them. The sooner the better.

Rant over.

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www.KonTourSeat.com "Like Butt-ahh!"

While I agree with you, he got the money from even bigger fools in Washington, so I guess it's all a relative measure. As big an idiot as this guy is, he's got serious competition from Obama and just about all of congress. But then, no one involved is worried about the long-term results of their actions.

Buy gold. The green pieces of paper just won't be worth much down the road.

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When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT

I agree with you both that GM and others may need to see how they fare under Chapter 11.

Bob, as far as your criticism of the Washington crowd, take a deep breath and look at your wonderful governor and legislators in CA- Are they doing a really great job in Sacramento?

Your ignorance of the inner workings of the Fed cast doubt on your credibility on all other issues. Strongly held opinions are just that, not necessarily the truth.

Bruce

PS My daughter and son-in-law are both PhD Economists for the Fed-I'll say no more about it!

The gov of Mich. was touting this week-end about a couple of states that claim they will not take govt. bail out money.........South Carolina, and Texas...........she admitted she would be taking any and all monies Michigan had coming; to help with the un-employed, and be first in line to 'beg' for the money turned down by any other states......................

Perry recanted after "thinking it over"!!! Wonder who wuz on the other end of the line?!?!

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Cheers


Dick
Boerne, TXican

I think WE, THE PEOPLE are the biggest fools for continuing to allow these imbeciles to remain in congress. I personally have been writing letters (yes, the old fashioned kind the USPS delivers) every chance I get. I will also be voting AGAINST anyone that voted for this shit piece of legislation they call a stimulus package. Problem is not enough are doing anything.

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Raymond Dell'Olio
Bronx, NY
718-530-5793
2000 K1200LT (Sold)

"A nation of sheep,
Owned by pigs,
Ruled by wolves."

Thanx for the update Dick............I've not been around the radio this day..........actually too nice outside...............and I put about 40 miles on 'Ol' Dollar' yesterday before I ran into frost and black ice...............just had to do a shake down ride to see where the slick started...................those painted lines on the road and the tar snakes can sure make you grab up a little seat cover ............... ............oh, it was 18 above so I think spring is about to sprung....................

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain

Hey, Obama is going to fix EVERYTHING!

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Brett
03 Anthracite
North Georgia
2005 CCR-Tetons
2006 CCR-Braselton
2008 CCR-Midway
2009 CCR-Rapid City

and we get to pay for it. It's always easy to spend someone else's money.

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Howard Schisler
2005 BMW K1200LT: "Gray Ghost"
Rushville, OH / BMWMOA #122322

Oh, they'll take the money. But they'll bitch all the way to the bank (who has already taken the money, come to think of it). Anyone wanna buy a bridge to nowhere?

Haven't you heard? The current plan is to fight every single thing he does, then when it all crashes down and everybody loses, they'll claim that they were right all along. Wait for it . . .

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Ken
SoCal
'07 Dark Graphite GT
'02 Mauve LTC
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states on the K12GT in the last two years, and counting . . .

Call me crazy but I wouldn't be bragging about that now.

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Ted

Camarillo, CA
2003 K1200LTC - Silver
2007 R1200S - Black
IBA# 16554

Ted,

There is no bragging involved. I'm just pointing out that all the self appointed experts (some who post on this site) don't have a clue about economics on a national and world wide scale. They are out of their class and way beyond their field of expertise. Obama is no fool and he's smart enough to listen to the lessons from history and the expertise of scholars who are looking for solutions to our current crisis.

I'll take Ben Bernanke over Rush Limbaugh any day. We surely all do better when we stick to motorcycling. I am amused when the topics drift to politics, religion, etc. My cousin said it best: "You'll never, ever change opinions with facts.

Looks like good riding weather tomorrow. Take care.

Bruce

Bruce -

Perhaps the next time you speak w/ your daughter or son-in-law you can ask how the 17 consecutive 25 basis point increases to the fed funds rate from 6/2003 - 6/2006 didn't trigger the current housing crisis.

Ride safe.

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Ted

Camarillo, CA
2003 K1200LTC - Silver
2007 R1200S - Black
IBA# 16554

Ron, that's what I like about you....You're a little slow BUT you always come around!

Huh? Sacramento is just a microcosm of Washington. Same worthless big nanny-state government hacks!

Yeah and we can see what a great job they have been doing! Throw 'em out with the rest of the worthless hacks!

They're doing something Ray--selling our grand kids down the river!

Speaking of F'G--er--fixing everything: I love this talk of cutting the deficit in half by the end of the first term. Now we've crossed into bipolar! Blow it up with pork, etc, then fix it?! Sometimes I cause it feels good when I stop. :

In Kalifornia, we're gonna have a train to nowhere. Does that count?

Ken, you're a little confused--still! It's all crashed down and everybody has done lost--as in past tense--as in it's already happened! It's to late to fight and much to late for "right all along." That would have worked PRIOR to selling our grand kids into economic slavery.

Ya think!

AND these "self-appointed experts" couldn't possibly do any worse than all these worthless hack-appointed experts. Current economy as proof!

Yes and he proved it with porkulus! Yeah, a real mental giant....along with all the rest of them!

AND while he's at it, perhaps he can have the genius phd economists explain how loosening loan requirements to encourage home ownership, even though there wasn't a ghost of a chance of said loans EVER being paid back, didn't also "help" the current housing crises?

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As arrogant and thin-skinned as Mack Daddy O is, that prick Joe "Bite-Me" is really giving him a run for the money! (WARNING: Official HATE speech! )

The Dems own this one Ken, from top to bottom. How could it fail?

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Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
'08 Can-Am Spyder "???"

Those of you with all the insipid comments have just reinforced my point. None of us are experts. Venting may feel good but your solutions and observations are mostly personal opinions (or quotes from talk show hosts). Congress passes laws, not the president. It's taken a whole bunch of screw-ups over many years to get to this point. Isn't hindsight marvelous. I should have taken my retirement funds out of the market, but didn't.

Just keep on trucking because I need the SS $ but wait that fund is on the road to bankruptcy also. I think more riding and less armchair quarterbacking is the answer. We elected the so called experts, give em a chance; we may still need to thrown the lot of them out down the road.

Take care,

Bruce

Let me know how that works out for you...

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Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
'08 Can-Am Spyder "???"

Dave,

I'm just getting ready to back the LT out of the gararge. It's not Florida warm but in the back woods of Montana we'll take mid 50's any day in Feb. Friend and I did 180 mi. last Sunday and had to turn off the "electrics".

I was amused when the folks in Maui complained about a new all time record low of 54 at the Kahului Airport. The water was still great for snorkeling. Enjoy your Florida tropical breezes.

Bruce

It's not just my opinion Bruce. I weakness I have is for economics and history. There are many flavors of economics, but only a few have a history of actually having any degree of long-term success. Austrian economics is, I believe, the hands-down truth when it comes to economics. I get some of my info from the Mises institute and CATO mostly. I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but I believe what they say is true, just like you believe what your kids say. We get conflicting information from various sources, we use critical thinking to try and determine what to believe, and good people can differ.

Buy US bonds if you want. Inflation is going to go through the roof (something the fed creates, yet always acts surprised about), and interest rates will soon follow. It's all happened before.

I realize I come across a bit extreme on political topics. I am extreme, unfortunately. I wish it was the norm. Still, I believe my positions are economically and morally correct, and I'll cling to them.

I think you can count the adults in Congress on one hand. Also, I never said I supported CA's government. We're farther down the road to socialism than most, and the economic result is with us. The only thing I can say positive about Schwarzenegger is he's better than the corrupt Davis he replaced. Hardly an endorsement.

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When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT

Okay, in an attempt to go more mainstream, I changed my signature to slam the economic policies of the government as a whole, rather than singling out the federal reserve. I hope I'm still extreme enough!

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When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT

Thanks Bob. I'll bet that we could find more to agree on than disagree. I have some lunch buddies who have very little good to say about anything. They relish political bashing and it probably just got to me lately.

I'm always impressed by individuals with critical thinking skills and proposed solutions. It's the negative only critics with no positive proposals of their own that I am totally blown away by.

Take care, ride safe,

Bruce

Tell you what Bruce, you tell us which worthless hack(s) to ride and we'll ride 'em ALL like stuffed pigs! AND why would I wanna give any hack the "chance" to sell my grand kids into economic slavery?

Let's see how that works out for our grand kids! Sir, could you please spit on it first, next time?

Here's to continued practice, Bob!

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As arrogant and thin-skinned as Mack Daddy O is, that prick Joe "Bite-Me" is really giving him a run for the money! (WARNING: Official HATE speech! )

If it's any consolation, I don't find your posts to be extreme at all. In fact, many times you are able to express yourself much better than I, while saying what I'm trying to express.
The problem is the medium makes it very difficult if not impossible to effect real change.

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R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)

I'm sure we'd agree on a lot of things Bruce. I could go into a whole diatribe about an alternative way of doing things, but my posts are long enough, and very few would be interested. I often just stay away from political threads because I even get tired of hearing my own voice (there's a voice in my head when I type. Scary). Sometimes, though, I just have to scratch.

Much more literate and intelligent people have written books on the subjects. My posts may seem to just be negative w/o any positive suggestions, but as Kevin says, this isn't the medium for detailed analysis. I'm sure a lot of the debates/arguments on this forum is the result of condensed statements that antagonize people, where a normal conversation between the same people would be much more civil. I guess that's what CCR is for.

Then again, it's safer here in the forum. It's hard to throw a punch.

I'll try and ride safe if you will.

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When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT

Unfortunately, the two party system thrives upon people thinking one party is less corrupt than the other, that one corrupt, dishonest politician is more desirable than the other corrupt dishonest politician.

In order to maintain their system, each party strives to make voting districts and voting schemes to eliminate at least the other party, but especially to eliminate anyone outside of their system.

The bail out of USA auto makers has been necessitated by members of CONgress buying votes with tax payer funds.

The bail out of US automakers will proceed, regardless of it's merits, because governors and members of CONgress will to buy re -election votes by spending tax payer funds. After all, if you live in Kansas you cannot vote against the MN governor, you cannot vote against any member of CONgress from IL.

About the only thing I can think of doing to protest squandering of tax payer funds is to mail post cards to my representatives.

If you think government subsidies to people who gambled they could buy a home they couldn't not afford is just another government scam, you have to tell them.

If you think government subsidies to auto makers and their union is just another scam, you have to tell them.

Bob

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"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson

Bob you are exactly right. The problem seems to be that we keep telling them and telling them but they are deaf or dumb or both.

For example, Montanans voted on an initiative to expand the CHIPS childrens health plan last year. The popular vote was 70% for, a veritable landslide. What do our esteemed legislators do to fund this in January? The funding committee votes 4 Dems for the plan and 4 Repubs against. It doesn't even get out of committee and won't be implemented because they are too busy with their petty power struggle.

WTF, we the people voted and they don't give a damn. It's all about which side is more powerful. Depending on which party you're in, one side is a bunch of conservative a-holes and the other is a bunch of liberal a-holes.

We need some real statesmen in Congress who have the good of the country in mind. It seems to be an impossible dream at this point.

Take care,

Bruce

Back to the original post, GM is just plain stupid!

If their products aren't selling, shouldn't they look to lower prices on their cars? I stopped into a Stealership the other day to look at the Chevy Traverse. 35G and the best the salesperson could offer me was 2G off if I or someone in my family had leased a GM product. We've all seen the pics of cars sitting in lots waiting to be sold and yet I'm not seeing any firesales.

I guess their waiting for Uncle Sam to bail their asses out instead of lowering their prices to improve the overall lack demand.

That said, I was given a great price on a new Nissan Murano and even better deal on a Toyota RAV4.

I'm all for buying American but not at the expense of 7-10Gs out of my pocket.

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Rob V.B.
2003 BMW LT
Kickin' Tires and Tellin' Lies

Hey, I'm working on it