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Downgrading from RT to F800GT

37K views 94 replies 43 participants last post by  F800GT 
#1 ·
This might be a topic rather off this group range... I am 67 and handling the bulk of my fully loaded 2009 RT in and out of garage and on parking lot is becoming a bit difficult now and evidently it is not going to get any better. I am not considering to sell my RT yet, but in not so distant future I might...
Weighing my options, I was wondering if going to a smaller and ligher bike would be a solution. I kind of like this new F800GT with its belt drive, but my main concern is the riding position. Is it as straight and relaxed as on RT or is it leaning more towards the sport bike position style. How is the wind and elements protection? Has anyone had an opportunity to drive the F800GT and compare it to RT?
 
#3 ·
Luma46 said:
This might be a topic rather off this group range... I am 67 and handling the bulk of my fully loaded 2009 RT in and out of garage and on parking lot is becoming a bit difficult now and evidently it is not going to get any better. I am not considering to sell my RT yet, but in not so distant future I might...
Weighing my options, I was wondering if going to a smaller and ligher bike would be a solution. I kind of like this new F800GT with its belt drive, but my main concern is the riding position. Is it as straight and relaxed as on RT or is it leaning more towards the sport bike position style. How is the wind and elements protection? Has anyone had an opportunity to drive the F800GT and compare it to RT?
I'm 73 and considering going this route in the near future. If you go to http://cycle-ergo.com/ you can compare the body forward lean angle and knee bend etc fo different bikes :D
 
#4 ·
Phillo said:
I'm 73 and considering going this route in the near future. If you go to http://cycle-ergo.com/ you can compare the body forward lean angle and knee bend etc fo different bikes :D
That is the coolest website ever. Apparently, I'm the perfect height and inseam for the RT.
 
#5 ·
what's really cool about that site is if you use your mouse scroll wheel, it will slowly super impose both bikes to get a true comparison.
 
#6 ·
Luma46 said:
This might be a topic rather off this group range... I am 67 and handling the bulk of my fully loaded 2009 RT in and out of garage and on parking lot is becoming a bit difficult now and evidently it is not going to get any better. I am not considering to sell my RT yet, but in not so distant future I might...
Weighing my options, I was wondering if going to a smaller and ligher bike would be a solution. I kind of like this new F800GT with its belt drive, but my main concern is the riding position. Is it as straight and relaxed as on RT or is it leaning more towards the sport bike position style. How is the wind and elements protection? Has anyone had an opportunity to drive the F800GT and compare it to RT?
I put 600 miles on one in March. My write up follows.

Thanks to European Motorcycles of Western Oregon for the opportunity to put some miles on the new, for 2013, BMW – F800GT. This workhorse twin cylinder is quick off the line and spins up with a pleasing growl. Top gear offers brisk overtaking performance and pulls hard at anything above 2000 RPM. Around town the bike was smooth, light and agile. On the interstate (in comfort mode) it felt solidly planted at all speeds. The handling was unaffected by side winds or semi truck turbulence. On curvy secondary roads (with the suspension in SPORT mode) the bike responded predictably to steering inputs and handled bumps, pavement seams and rain groves with ease. The flexibility of the gearing allowed for minimal shifting, but when necessary the transmission is smooth and precise.

The ergonomics suited me well; I’m 6’0”-215LBS. Wind protection is ample without isolating the rider from the elements. The seat is comfortable, and I had no problem riding tank to tank. Average fuel consumption was 60 MPG on the highway. Brakes are the usual BMW (ABS) phenomenal. I took it down some gravel roads and found the ASC a practical tool to have on board when traction is limited. The heated grips were a welcome addition as temperatures were in the 45F range much of the trip.

At 800cc it is not BMW’s most powerful motor but I found it to be their most, flexible and willing mill. It also has an intoxicating gruff tone that is a pleasure to listen to as the motor spins up. I don’t have many picks but cruise control would’ve been nice to have on such a capable touring mount. This is a bike that offers all the fun of touring and commuting minus the weight and complexity of the big rigs.
 
#8 ·
Before moving away from the RT, go find a LOW SUSPENSION model RT to try out, or at least to sit on in the showroom. Mine is undoubtedly the easiest handling big bike I've ever owned or ridden. It may just be a height adjustment you need to keep you on an RT. It's worth trying in any case; I'm not sure you'd be entirely thrilled by the 800GT after owning an RT -- you'd be giving up a lot of power and smoothness, and that wonderful Boxer engine with all that history and tradition behind it.

The way I view it, if you're looking at the 800GT you may as well look at other brands also and the types/sizes of bikes they offer that would work for you. Not sure I fully embrace the BMW logo on a Rotax-engined bike.
 
#95 ·
I'm not sure you'd be entirely thrilled by the 800GT after owning an RT -- you'd be giving up a lot of power and smoothness, and that wonderful Boxer engine with all that history and tradition behind it.

The way I view it, if you're looking at the 800GT you may as well look at other brands also and the types/sizes of bikes they offer that would work for you. Not sure I fully embrace the BMW logo on a Rotax-engined bike.
This reminds me of some Harley owners swearing by only certain Harley models. They don't consider 1200cc and below as "real" Harley. And they buy Harleys because Harleys are American made, not knowing Harleys use a lot of parts made elsewhere, especially from Japan.

Following the above logic, BMW motorcycles that feature non-Boxer engines such as the S1000RR, the K1600GT or the K1300S should not be considered a "real" BMW. And worse, many of them use non-BMW parts such as Ă–hlins suspension, Brembo brakes ...

BTW, the engine on the F800GT was co-developed by BMW and Rotax, BMW did not just put its label on the engine. And lastly, Rotax produces aircraft engines so I presume that Rotax knows a thing or two about combustion engine engineering :grin:
 
#9 ·
Think that will be a good choice.

I had a F800ST for a bit. Unusual circumstances caused a trade in for a R12RT. I love the RT but know that within a year or two will have to swap out for the F800 again as the weight of R12 is already showing.

To make the ST comfortable for me I added 2" risers, could have used a bit more, new bars would probably be the best option. Added a Madstad bracket and windshild. Others now make windshilds to fit the Madstad.

Didn't get the factory bags but SW Motech mount and Trax cases and a Givi top case.

Was thinking about adding peg lowering kit when swap took place.

At that point the bike was set up great for my ergos. Enough power, great in the twisties, able to cruise at 80-85 with ease, carry enough load for long trips (did a west to east coast and back)

Last option is to take the seat to Mr Moto in Albany.
 
#10 ·
A bit off topic, but this post makes me think of a dear friend whose main ride (among about 20+ classic bikes) was a R1200RT. When he got pancreatic cancer and was going through chemo, etc. he down sized to an 800GS for the same reason. About three months before he died I was riding up route 30 south of Middlebury, VT when I noticed a rider coming toward me and thought I recognized Brad's "trademark" helmet with University of Michigan style stripes.

It was Brad and he was riding his RT. It was his last ride. He loved that bike.
 
#11 ·
I did a short test ride on the 800GT. Very nice light flickable bike but I thought the ergo's are much more aggressive than the RT. Foot pegs are fairly high and rear set. It was fun but my hips were hurting after 30min. I'm 6'3" with a 34" inseam so that should give you an idea of why I felt cramped.
 
#12 ·
rwbloch said:
A bit off topic, but this post makes me think of a dear friend whose main ride (among about 20+ classic bikes) was a R1200RT. When he got pancreatic cancer and was going through chemo, etc. he down sized to an 800GS for the same reason. About three months before he died I was riding up route 30 south of Middlebury, VT when I noticed a rider coming toward me and thought I recognized Brad's "trademark" helmet with University of Michigan style stripes.

It was Brad and he was riding his RT. It was his last ride. He loved that bike.
That's how I'm going to go when the time comes. Well, without the Michigan stuff. It'll be a Syracuse Orange helmet. :D
 
#15 ·
I had an F800ST before my R1200RT. In terms of riding position, the ST was really relaxed once you got the seat height sorted. I did that by reshaping the standard seat, and it was perfect. Damn sight cheaper than a factory low seat too.

Thing is though, on the RT you get a world of weather protection. On the ST I was almost totally exposed. Be ready to upgrade the screen, if protection means much to you. I commute at silly hours, being a shift worker, and it's very cold here in winter.

I loved the feel of the smaller bike, and fuel economy is super special.

However, I'm more into the boxers, they have more character IMHO, loads more protection, and just ease their way around the roads. I ride one for work (motor cop), and the bulk is just never an issue.

I wouldn't go back to the 800, but if it makes the difference for you to keep riding, it's a good idea.
 
#16 ·
Just bought a 07 f800s in July, with 3500 miles on it. It's a fun bike to ride for 60-80 miles.... much more than that it wears this old man out.

By the way, I went to look at the new f800gt, but couldn't justify due to the cost difference (5k vs 13K)

At 401 lbs dry, it is really fun for the short rides. I live in the country, and take the f800 on gravel roads with ease. With the LT, gravel roads are do-able but not nearly as much fun.

I sure do miss my old RT 1100 (sold it when I bought the LT)....wish I never sold it.

Chris Ogle
 
#17 ·
I just purchased a GT after having possession of a demo for about 24 hrs. I'm 5'10", 200 lbs with a 31" inseam and commute year round here in Seattle. The bike I rode had the 'comfort' seat which is supposed to be about an inch taller than the standard seat.

First of all I found the ergos perfect for me. A slight forward lean with my feet under my hips - very comfortable for my back. The fairing provides excellent coverage of my body while still allowing my head to be in clear air. It was foggy and drizzling on my morning commute, and while I stayed dry, the wind was enough to blow my face shield clear. Interestingly, the rain rolling up the windshield was somehow channeled to the sides rather than into my face. I foresee no need for changes to seat, pegs, bars or shield.

The bike was very light compared to the RT - there is probably 100 lbs or more difference. With the fuel tank under the seat the weight carries low. It's also a very narrow chassis. The exhaust note sounds funny to me - reminiscent of my DRZ400 thumper - kinda farty. Actually even though I mention it, sound is about at the bottom of my list of priorities. There is plenty of power for maneuvering, merging, passing - but I'm no racer so I don't know if it will readily pull wheelies (with the traction control off of course). The brakes are very powerful, and if you start braking with the rear and then apply the front the chassis settles down nicely. I ran it up to 80 mph on the freeway and didn't feel any vibration to speak of. The view in the mirrors at that speed was clear. I expect to get between 50 and 60 mpg with it.

Speaking of mirrors, they are not so wide that you can see anything immediately behind you but they are certainly no worse than the RT rear view.

I didn't have the bags although I've seen them and ordered them for my bike, which will be the Light White. They are definitely a little smaller than the RT system cases. I didn't test the ABS, or the alleged problem where the computer will release the front brakes if it detects what it thinks is the rear wheel lifting. I didn't test the traction control either.

The ESA only changes the rear shock damping and you can definitely tell the difference between the two extremes - sport and comfort. Everything else - fit and finish, controls, instruments, bike computer, heated grips, etc are typical BMW. There is some heat coming off the frame spars - I was in a 40 min traffic jam creeping along in 80 degree F temps and it was not a problem for me in Dockers. If I was wearing my aerostich I probably wouldn't have noticed it at all.

The belt is quiet with no off-on transition snatch. It's supposed to cost $400 and be replaced at 24K miles but reports are that most people far exceed the 24K mile life expectancy. It is also very simple to replace (especially as opposed to a chain). Other services (oil change, battery and air filter access, etc) are very straight forward. Supposedly, the diagnostic computer will tell the service tech whether or not the valves need adjustment (don't ask me how THAT works). The rear wheel can be removed on the center stand without removing the muffler.

It's not cheap at just under $13,700 with side bags, the safety and comfort/luxury option packages, freight, and prep. My '09 RT was at least $5K more than that. A lot of my leftover RT stuff like the GPS power connector, battery charger, oil filter wrench and axle wrench will work on the F800GT. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this bike to someone who does a lot of 2-up or super long distance touring, or is much over 6' tall.

I also looked at the Honda NC700 series and the Moto Guzzi Norge. Neither one is in the same league as the F800. It's really in a class of it's own at least right now and if the height and weight and fuel economy of your RT is getting you down it is definitely worth your while to arrange a demo and try it for yourself. I'm calling it my Wee-T!
 
#19 ·
I think if/when this happens to me, I'd consider an R100RT Airhead before the F800.

A lighter bike than either I think and still that wonderful boxer engine feel.

Pretty much nothing needed in way of driveline maintenance as opposed to the $400 for ST belt every 24K miles.

Not as great fuel mileage, however.
 
#20 ·
I think it might be better to think of "Downsizing" rather than "Downgrading". Other than in blue movies and maybe firearms (but we exhausted that topic last week), bigger isn't necessarily better.

What's right for one is not necessarily right for another. Although it would be nice to have a second smaller bike for riding around in town, the geometry of the F800 series just doesn't work for me (6', 200 lbs). Yeah, the RT is a bit heavy to be pushing around a lot, but the trick for me is keeping it balanced, not simply the weight. If it's centered I don't find it too much, but recovering balance when it starts to go is a bit challenging.

JayJay
 
#21 ·
Well I have a love/hate relationship with BMW and had vowed never to buy another one but I weakened and decided to approach the dealer I have used for the the last 6 years to trade my 2011 RT for a 2013 F800GT and as usual they are lowballing me. So I have emailed another dealer in the same area and given them the fact and figures of the deal I have refused and asked them if they are prepared to come to the party ! waiting on that ! So if they are not prepared to deal then I am telling my weakness for BMW to get the hell back in it's box and will revert to selling the RT privately and buy something else :mad:
 
#22 ·
So when I purchased my RT I was seriously looking at an F800GT. I didn't take the F for a ride and if I did I know I would have chosen the RT.

Please see my "Burning" thread as to how I got to ride the F.

The F is a very nice bike. Heated grips on a cool morning are very nice. It's fun to wind-out. The shocks could use a little work, but are nice. The engine and tranny are nice. The clutch is a little grabby, but I should probably adjust the lever a little. It tracks really well in the corners (much quicker than the RT). It's really light on its feet.

Major gripes:
1. Fill'er-up and the gauge says "more than 1/2". Go see it to understand. I know, I know...no one trusts the RT gauge but I have had no problems with the RT.
2. Grabby clutch
3. The lap timer is stupid on this bike.
4. It's not fun to wind out ALL the time.
5. Much more wind than an RT (but just look at the F and you could figure that out)
6. The misses would never be happy on the F as pillion (compared to the RT). She used to ride an NC30 so she is no wimp.

As a commuter bike, I could really dig it. However, if you pull the RT's bags, you get more power, wind protection and creature comforts with only losing a little width and weight. Clearly the F is lighter.

As a single bike owner, I'm much happier with the RT. If I had space for a second, the F would be an awesome mid season commuter. Early and late season riding would be more challenging on the F (I am a PA rider...FL/CA riders would clearly see things a little differently). ** I ride ATGATT w/ a 'stich in cooler temps and Motoport mesh in warmer temps.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I ride an 08 RT and the SO rides an R1100S fully farkled to suit her use for touring.
We also own several other BMWs and other bikes.

A few weeks ago we test rode the F800GT with a ST for comparison. We're both in our 60s and neither of us thought the ergos of the ST were suitable for anyone except a kid or the seriously stumpy. I'm 6 ft, she's a tick under 5' 6". Nor did we find any distinction between the power of the two models despite BMWs claim of bumping power on the new one- I'll believe that only after I personally witness the dyno run supporting it.

However, after the test run there is no doubt in my mind that virtually all riders will find the F800 easier to ride and be faster in tight twisties on it than on a heavier BMW, with the possible exception of S1000RR- same way that most, especially novices, are faster around a track on 600 than liter bike. It has outstanding brakes and non of the herky jerky of most fuel injected motorcycles. Handles light and easy. The ST had a butter smooth tranny and the F800 was close- a nice change from the crappy shifting of R bikes / Getrag trannies. We did not find any annoying buzz on either but its wasn't a 500 mile test day either, though we did enough time at high speeds that we should have noticed it. The brand new F800 had a tight somewhat thudding engine character like all BMWs not broken in seem to have- the local service guys say they expect it to break in like the ST given how similar they are (and there are reasonably priced aftermarket options for correcting if it doesn't)

But the footpegs are still too high- factory only brought them down a fraction of an inch which is nowhere near enough from the ST and tried to do the rest with seats- expect to need lowering bits even with the highest seat. Bars are still a bit too far forward like all BMWs so it will need barbacks for many which also means a new front brake line (especially if you use them on any other BMW, you will want them here also). The windshield is too small to be much more useful than that of a crotch rocket. In short, as built it is no touring machine nor even a real GT though it can made into a touring bike a lot more easily than her R1100S and even my RT needed all the stuff that the F800GT also needs.
But, wonder of all wonders, while the stock seat is nothing special its a lot better than one on the RT and there are 5 factory choices now. Do not think the F800 is an F800RT- it not close as built and arguably not a GT either. I'd suggest that BMW take a hard look at old UJM ergos- they worked and BMWs almost never do in stock form. We all know BMW is pretty pig headed about thinking its staff know better than customers do- it would be nice to see an attitude change. Building test bikes for review by actual US customers in addition to factory riders would be a good start.

Anyway, I'm discussing a deal for a pair with our local dealer mostly for the handling aspects which are vastly superior to the heavier bikes in our NC tight twisties but it will have to include all the needed accessories installed at delivery at a fair price- I'm not personally going to the effort to correct ergos on 2 new bikes- have done my fill of bike projects in the past couple years and only those modernizing an old Transalp were really justifiable (Lots of improvements in electronics, etc since it was built in 1989)- the others are basically correcting BMWs screwups on everything from ergos to fueling.

I expect to dispose of my K1200GT if I acquire an F800GT. Despite my interest in the F800 I don't think BMW has done a good job of listening to US riders who made very clear many times that they wanted a middle weight TOURING bike. If there was any other alternative that didn't have chain drive I'd be looking at something else- chains need too much maintenance and don't last long long enough to have any place on a bike with touring pretensions.
 
#26 ·
racer7 said:
I ride an 08 RT and the SO rides an R1100S fully farkled to suit her use for touring.
We also own several other BMWs and other bikes.

A few weeks ago we test rode the F800GT with a ST for comparison. We're both in our 60s and neither of us thought the ergos of the ST were suitable for anyone except a kid or the seriously stumpy. I'm 6 ft, she's a tick under 5' 6". Nor did we find any distinction between the power of the two models despite BMWs claim of bumping power on the new one- I'll believe that only after I personally witness the dyno run supporting it.

However, after the test run there is no doubt in my mind that virtually all riders will find the F800 easier to ride and be faster in tight twisties on it than on a heavier BMW, with the possible exception of S1000RR- same way that most, especially novices, are faster around a track on 600 than liter bike. It has outstanding brakes and non of the herky jerky of most fuel injected motorcycles. Handles light and easy. The ST had a butter smooth tranny and the F800 was close- a nice change from the crappy shifting of R bikes / Getrag trannies. We did not find any annoying buzz on either but its wasn't a 500 mile test day either, though we did enough time at high speeds that we should have noticed it. The brand new F800 had a tight somewhat thudding engine character like all BMWs not broken in seem to have- the local service guys say they expect it to break in like the ST given how similar they are (and there are reasonably priced aftermarket options for correcting if it doesn't)

But the footpegs are still too high- factory only brought them down a fraction of an inch which is nowhere near enough from the ST and tried to do the rest with seats- expect to need lowering bits even with the highest seat. Bars are still a bit too far forward like all BMWs so it will need barbacks for many which also means a new front brake line (especially if you use them on any other BMW, you will want them here also). The windshield is too small to be much more useful than that of a crotch rocket. In short, as built it is no touring machine nor even a real GT though it can made into a touring bike a lot more easily than her R1100S and even my RT needed all the stuff that the F800GT also needs.
But, wonder of all wonders, while the stock seat is nothing special its a lot better than one on the RT and there are 5 factory choices now. Do not think the F800 is an F800RT- it not close as built and arguably not a GT either. I'd suggest that BMW take a hard look at old UJM ergos- they worked and BMWs almost never do in stock form. We all know BMW is pretty pig headed about thinking its staff know better than customers do- it would be nice to see an attitude change. Building test bikes for review by actual US customers in addition to factory riders would be a good start.

Anyway, I'm discussing a deal for a pair with our local dealer mostly for the handling aspects which are vastly superior to the heavier bikes in our NC tight twisties but it will have to include all the needed accessories installed at delivery at a fair price- I'm not personally going to the effort to correct ergos on 2 new bikes- have done my fill of bike projects in the past couple years and only those modernizing an old Transalp were really justifiable (Lots of improvements in electronics, etc since it was built in 1989)- the others are basically correcting BMWs screwups on everything from ergos to fueling.

I expect to dispose of my K1200GT if I acquire an F800GT. Despite my interest in the F800 I don't think BMW has done a good job of listening to US riders who made very clear many times that they wanted a middle weight TOURING bike. If there was any other alternative that didn't have chain drive I'd be looking at something else- chains need too much maintenance and don't last long long enough to have any place on a bike with touring pretensions.
Thanks, Racer, that's a nice writeup. Five years ago I rode both the K12GT and the R12RT, and the former was just too aggressive a posture for me. Even the R12RT had to have barbacks and peg lowering, but now it fits and handles fine. I would actually like a mid-size bike for an alternative/supplement to the RT but as with you, I'm not so keen on getting back into chains. The F800's I've sat on (including my son's F800S) have just been too aggresive a posture, but it's been several years and they may have changed (but I don't bend quite like I used to, either).

Now, if they'd just give the 800GS a belt drive ... but I know that won't happen on an adventure bike (for good reason). I'm still tempted.

JayJay
 
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