BMW not recommending Synthetic oil - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 71 Old Mar 27th, 2008, 9:18 pm Thread Starter
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BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I have just spoken to BMW Motorcycles in Sydney Australia.

I asked them which engine oil they recommend in K1200LT, they said only use Mineral oil and do not use a Synthetic Bend or Synthetic oil. They stressed only use 20W-50 mineral oil.
Unless the bike is the very latest model then Synthetic is ok.


...........

Tony

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lots of others ....
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Last edited by tonycross; Mar 27th, 2008 at 9:26 pm.
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post #2 of 71 Old Mar 27th, 2008, 9:44 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

They do not know what they are talking about. Synthetic oil would be the best choice for any year K1200LT. Now some of the other models with a wet clutch you may argue the point. Use the synthetic and leave it in for 6K miles.
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post #3 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 5:04 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I just had my first service at 600 miles. I asked the dealer about Synthetic oil and he said BMW doesn't recommend the switch until I think he said 6000 miles. I was frankly surprised but agreed to stay with the natural oil, for now.
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post #4 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 5:32 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I was told numerous times that only BMW oil is recommended, I know go figure right

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post #5 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 6:35 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Dealerships only recommend the oil they have on their shelves.

BMW NA told me that motorcycle specific synthetics can be used after the 6,000 mile service. Someone mentioned that the BMW accessories catalog states the same for the BMW synthetic motorcycle oil.

Companies that make motorcycle specific synthetics tell me their products can be used immediately, but state it makes sense to do after the first oil change as it is contaminated, a short interval and "free".

Many motorcycles and automobiles come from the factory with synthetic oil.

I personally began using higher performing non BMW brand motorcycle specific synthetics and filter at my 600 mile oil change, and have changed the engine oil and filter every 12,000 miles for the past 110,000 miles and glad I did.
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post #6 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 7:40 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

"only use Mineral oil and do not use a Synthetic Bend or Synthetic oil."

Don't statements like this usually start with "I've been a mechanic for XX years, and..."
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post #7 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 4:38 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Well,, I don't know what riders manual ya'll got but the one that came with my '05 LT says on page 41 section 2 Engine Oil,, that quote; "BMW recommends Castrol" oil..... Also on the very back cover it repeats it again; "BMW recommends Castrol" oil........Check your books!! There will be a test tomorrow.........Pete

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post #8 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 4:55 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I read the test results of Castol, and it wasn't pretty. Last place finishes out of 26 motorcycle oils. Maybe BMW wants their bikes to wear out sooner so owners can pony up even more money? I wonder how much money Castrol paid them to write that. No thanks.
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post #9 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 4:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

In reply:
No I haven't been a Mechanic for xx years I have however serviced my own bikes for the past 30yrs or so.

Comments like BMW don't know what they are talking about and I have used Synthetic oil for years and haven't had any problems just don't cut it.
The person I spoke to was the Mechanic who works exclusively on BMW bikes
He has no vested interest in which oil is on the shelf, but what he does have without doubt is the technical bulletins from BMW regarding issues and recommendations from the factory with the regard to BMW bikes.

For BMW to specifically state that you should not use synthetic should at least be considered, talking of the owners manual it does not state Castrol
for the engine oil it states Name brand API xxxxxxx
It does however mention a Castrol product for the Gearbox and Final drive
again a Mineral based product. Nowhere in the manual does it state that any synthetic products are ok.

If this is not the case please point me to the page in the Service manual or the handbook I'm missing

If there is any BMW representive-Mechanic reading this and will post that BMW do recommend Synthetics .... I would be very suprised and happy to be
corrected.

Thanks again for a very helpful forum

...........

Tony
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post #10 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 5:13 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

BMW markets their BMW 15W50 synthetic motorcycle oil in the United States. Both of the remaining BMW Dealerships in the Houston area sell and recommend this synthetic oil and at least one other synthetic motorcycle oil. Here is a link showing the product http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=39062 . It tested #3 out of 16 50 weight motorcycle oils.

It sounds like you are just stating the opinion of one motorcycle mechanic in Australia, and not corporate BMW. I would also wonder if he is a BMW factory trained motorcycle mechanic since he stated this. If he has documentation from BMW, I'd like to see it.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 28th, 2008 at 5:29 pm.
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post #11 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 5:22 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Well.

You must remember some of the other things BMW has told customers. One of my favorites was that we only needed new computer chips if we lived in hot places, and the land of OZ didn't qualify.

Another good 'en was that the defective starter relays would only be replaced if they broke during warranty.

Oh. I still remember when a OZ BMW dealer told an LT owner that the starter relay wouldn't be replaced under warranty, because he let the voltage drop in his battery and batteries aren't covered in warranty.

AND, as BMW tells customers, dealerships are independent business.

Bob

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post #12 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 8:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
BMW markets their BMW 15W50 synthetic motorcycle oil in the United States. Both of the remaining BMW Dealerships in the Houston area sell and recommend this synthetic oil and at least one other synthetic motorcycle oil. Here is a link showing the product http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=39062 . It tested #3 out of 16 50 weight motorcycle oils.

It sounds like you are just stating the opinion of one motorcycle mechanic in Australia, and not corporate BMW. I would also wonder if he is a BMW factory trained motorcycle mechanic since he stated this. If he has documentation from BMW, I'd like to see it.
Thanks for this link to the BMW oil they also make a very interesting quote on the page you listed :
PLEASE NOTE: Since BMW motors take longer to break-in than other average motors, we recommend waiting until at least 18,000 miles before switching to synthetic.
Cheers Tony
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post #13 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 10:02 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

ODD that two different BMW dealers here in Ohio recommend I use the 10w-40 instead of the 20w-50 the manual specified. I used the real oil 10w-40 last few oil changes.

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post #14 of 71 Old Mar 28th, 2008, 11:44 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Golden Spectro makes the BMW synth oil, they make good stuff and I have used it for years in my bikes.

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post #15 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 5:51 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonycross
Thanks for this link to the BMW oil they also make a very interesting quote on the page you listed :
PLEASE NOTE: Since BMW motors take longer to break-in than other average motors, we recommend waiting until at least 18,000 miles before switching to synthetic.
Cheers Tony
Tony - that is that particular dealers recommendation. The recommendation I got from BMW North America is that any time after 6,000 miles is OK. Someone else had posted that the accessories catalog also says after 6,000 miles. I did mine at 600 miles, and it uses less than a quart of oil between 12,000 mile oil changes using the best performing brand I can find.
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post #16 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 6:03 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
ODD that two different BMW dealers here in Ohio recommend I use the 10w-40 instead of the 20w-50 the manual specified. I used the real oil 10w-40 last few oil changes.
That is a bit odd, but a pretty good recommendation, especially for cooler climates. This should give you more performance and better fuel economy. The owners manual says that a "10W-X "Special Oils" can be used (X is >=40)" and "approved individually by BMW AG and available from your authorized BMW motorcycle retailer." The temp range in the manual for these oils are from about -5F to greater than 85F.

Is anyone else using 40 weight oils in their K1200LT? Notice any differences?

Yesterday I ordered some high performance 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle specific oil. I will change to it in about a month. I will report back if anyone is interested.
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post #17 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 6:15 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
Golden Spectro makes the BMW synth oil, they make good stuff and I have used it for years in my bikes.
Are you sure about this? Last time I spoke to BMW North America (about a year or two ago) they told me that Castrol made all of BMW's oils. Since Spectro Oils is an American Company and Castrol is European and is mentioned in the owners manual by name, it makes more sense to me that Castrol makes BMW oils. If anyone has a current Material Safety Data Sheet, it should mention on it who provided the data.

I also found this at http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=6007316 .

First Engine Fill
Our engine oils and lubricants are officially recommended for all BMW cars and motorcycles. These vehicles are now filled with Castrol oils, engine and transmission lubricants and other technical fluids as they leave the production line.
After Sales
The BMW Group recommends Castrol in their service literature, driver handbooks and marketing communications, as well as on the vehicles’ engine blocks. We are delighted to have been chosen as the recommended oil for all BMW Group vehicles.
For more information on BMW, please visit.
http://www.bmw.com

Golden Spectro 4 ranked #5 out of 16 50 weight oils in the "White Paper" report.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 29th, 2008 at 6:26 am.
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post #18 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 6:46 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

On the Castrol website if you go to the bike selector, select the LT '99 onwards it comes up with Castrol Trizone. I get the feeling thats fully synthetic?

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/exten...tentId=7039176
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post #19 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 6:55 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Every BMW Dealer that I visit has "BMW Synthetic" oil on the shelf... My dealers here in the Denver area have always said wait until 18,000 miles to change to synthetic... Unless BMW is now saying that you shouldn't use it (and that hasn't been proven but disputed heavily here), someone is definately just giving you an opinion, maybe a dealership position only.

If BMW is saying to no longer use synthetic, (they have never recommeded synthetic blend), they better tell the dealerships to remove the syth oil from their shelves.

Also, if BMW is no longer recommending synth. oil, they better have a recommended procedure that owners follow to switch back to dyno oil since they have been selling BMW brand synth. oil for some time.

You may want to ask the individual that mentioned that that position on synth oil to you if he can show you a bulletin in writing from BMW where that is said. If there is one, then he can do so. If not, then you will know it is just his opinion.

Either way, it shouldn't be too hard to disclose the truth of the matter.

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post #20 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 6:56 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Much over nothing but oil again. I use Castrol now because my Service Manager said not until 12,000 for snth. FD and Tranny is Synth since the 600, and yes mine changed my FD oil at my request, with my carry in. At 3000 I went to 10-40 for the Winter here in PA, need to get the 6000 done and I will dump in 20-50.

I use the banned brand name and have for 15 years, will continue to, but at the frequency most of us change oil, synth or dino will do. You can debate white papers all day, but in the end has anyone documented a blown engine to engine lubricant alone as the cause?

Stop the oil wars and use what you like, change often, and ride the snot out of the bike.

Lee
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post #21 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 7:26 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
Much over nothing but oil again. I use Castrol now because my Service Manager said not until 12,000 for snth. FD and Tranny is Synth since the 600, and yes mine changed my FD oil at my request, with my carry in. At 3000 I went to 10-40 for the Winter here in PA, need to get the 6000 done and I will dump in 20-50.


I use the banned brand name and have for 15 years, will continue to, but at the frequency most of us change oil, synth or dino will do. You can debate white papers all day, but in the end has anyone documented a blown engine to engine lubricant alone as the cause?

Stop the oil wars and use what you like, change often, and ride the snot out of the bike.
AMEN!!!!!!!!

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post #22 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 8:18 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

So, the bike developed a leak, took it into the dealer (who has always done a great job and I have nothing but good things to say about them), and they tell me I have a rear transmission seal leak. The claim is that the material used in the seal is not made for synthetic oils and the use of synthetic oils will cause the leak, so being the smart ass I am, I ask why when I have had them do the service, they used synthetic. No answer to that one, but the recommendation to switch back to dyno.

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post #23 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 9:24 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheel_rider
They claim is that the material used in the rear main seal is not made for synthetic oils and the use of synthetic oils will cause the leak...
This is the first time that I have heard this. Has anyone else heard of this?

When my rear main seal went out, the dealer did tell me that it was the material used (german rubber (no offense to anyone)). He said the the seal gets hard as a rock.

Someone else on another post said that the oil he uses contains seal conditioners which is interesting to me. I have always spent the extra bucks and have used the bmw synthetic motor oil since after break-in. Time for a change?

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post #24 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 9:42 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

[QUOTE=mtrevelino](german rubber (no offense to anyone)). He said the the seal gets hard as a rock.


No offense taken!

"German rubber" and "rock hard" brings back fond early adulthood memories...


Scroll down for the details

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
I am refering to my NSU moped that had very poor quality under-dimensioned FULDA brand tires and no rear suspension. The fact that it was designed for a top speed of 40km/hr and we had tricks to make it go 70km/hr did not help. Mine was a "Quickly S" the envy of my friends who could not afford the "S" model

What were you guys thinking???

http://www.nsuquicklyspares.co.uk/gallery.html

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post #25 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 9:46 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
T

Yesterday I ordered some high performance 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle specific oil. I will change to it in about a month. I will report back if anyone is interested.
I would be interested. I guess my question is how would the 10W-40 work in the Texas heat? I would still feel better with the 20W-50 in my bike.

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post #26 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 10:46 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonycross
It does however mention a Castrol product for the Gearbox and Final drive
again a Mineral based product. Nowhere in the manual does it state that any synthetic products are ok.

If this is not the case please point me to the page in the Service manual or the handbook I'm missing
Here is one BMW factory reference that specifically states that you should use SYNTHETIC oil in the rear drive. This is clipped directly from the BMW 2003+ Maintenance Manual CDROM. Castrol MTX 75w140 is a full synthetic oil.

You are correct that nowhere does it state that synthetic oils are OK for the engine, however, nowhere does it state that they are NOT OK either!!

The key specification on the engine oil is the API "SG" or "SH" rating (and also the 20w50 grade). This means that if any oil (dino or syn) meets this spec - then it is "approved".
"SG" was the oil spec for engines between 1989 and 1992
"SH" was the oil spec for engines between 1993 and 1996

I believe that this SG/SH spec is really to ensure that there is sufficient anti wear additives (eg zinc) for this relatively "older" designed automotive engine.
Newer designed engines can tolerate the more modern oils (API "SM") that have less anti wear addtives - which were reduced to reduce the potential to foul catalytic converters.

As an aside - I'm currently assembling the engine on my Superbird, and am installing a Hughes flat tappet camshaft. It came with a big warning about what oils to use and what not to use. I've attached it for interest.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Rear drive oil specs.doc (155.0 KB, 112 views)
File Type: doc Hughes cams oil recommendations.doc (38.5 KB, 117 views)

2006 K1200LT Ocean Blue Metallic
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 318-auto (Soon to have a 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant)
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post #27 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 3:55 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by MneShim
On the Castrol website if you go to the bike selector, select the LT '99 onwards it comes up with Castrol Trizone. I get the feeling thats fully synthetic?

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/exten...tentId=7039176
I went to the site and it recommended the Castrol Power Racing 4T 10W40 as their best oil for the K1200LT. It is a fully synthetic motorcycle oil with API-SJ and JASO MA2 specifications. It uses Trizone technology, so that may be some of the confusion. I found it interesting that it recommended 10W40 full petroleum synthetic (likely for performance reasons) and that it listed no minimal mileage to change to synthetic.

It has a 40C lower flash point and much lower TBN with no recommendations of extended oil change intervals, compared to the chemical synthetic I use now, so I will have to pass on this one.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 29th, 2008 at 4:13 pm.
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post #28 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 5:25 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Heres an intresting article

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

"It could appear from this data, then, that there is no validity to the constantly-used argument that motorcycle-specific oils provide superior lubrication to automotive oils when used in a motorcycle. If the viscosity drop is the only criterion, then there is certainly no reason to spend the extra money on oil specifically designed for motorcycles. There does, however, appear to be a legitimate argument for using synthetic and synthetic-blend oils over the petroleum based products. "
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post #29 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 5:57 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by MneShim
Heres an intresting article

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

"It could appear from this data, then, that there is no validity to the constantly-used argument that motorcycle-specific oils provide superior lubrication to automotive oils when used in a motorcycle. If the viscosity drop is the only criterion, then there is certainly no reason to spend the extra money on oil specifically designed for motorcycles. There does, however, appear to be a legitimate argument for using synthetic and synthetic-blend oils over the petroleum based products. "
A milestone report that should be left in the museum. Back in 1994 when that article was written, there was very little difference between motorcycle and automotive oils. The first difference happened in the late 1990's when the API updated their performance standard to API-SJ. There were enough differences between API SH and SJ that BMW Motorcycles were so concerned about the change, they issued a Tech Service Bulletin letting dealers know they should not use API SJ oils. This is also about the time that JASO did wet clutch and transmission testing and came out with the JASO MA standards showing that oils could be used in motorcycle wet clutches and transmission, which were not a concern with the automotive industry.

API again changed formulations in 2001 with API SL rated oils, mostly for EPA reasons. This again resulted in a more different formulation than the motorcycle oils. Then another API change in 2004 to API SM, which reduced phosphorous and zinc due to catalytic converter concerns in cars. If you look at automotive oils, nearly all are API-SM, which is backward compatible for autos, but not for motorcycles. If you look at motorcycle oils, you will not see API-SM, because it is not the preferred formulation for motorcycles. If you look at motorcycle owners manuals, most will recommend motorcycle specific oils and/or JASO specified oils and/or API SH/SJ/SL but never API SM.

The older manuals and reports before 1999 do not list JASO oils, because the JASO motorcycle specification did not exist. When in doubt, contact the motorcycle manufacturer and/or an oil company and ask them for their recommendations.

A much more thorough, up-to-date and data filled report is the 26 brand name oil comparison "White Paper" using a dozen standard motorcycle oil tests by an independent laboratory which many may find useful in picking motorcycle oils.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm.
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post #30 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 9:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by MneShim
On the Castrol website if you go to the bike selector, select the LT '99 onwards it comes up with Castrol Trizone. I get the feeling thats fully synthetic?

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/exten...tentId=7039176
Trizone is specifically for Engine-Gearbox-Clutch combined.
LT has dry clutch, seperate gearbox and engine ...

Not trying to be a smart ass just trying to get a definitive answer from BMW representitive who will put their name to using Synth oils, a guarantee it
will not cause any side effects to the seals. Why are they now saying not until 6,000 miles etc. Does anyone really believe it takes that long to - run in ..


Best wishes
Tony
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post #31 of 71 Old Mar 29th, 2008, 10:39 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonycross
Why are they now saying not until 6,000 miles etc. Does anyone really believe it takes that long to - run in ..


Best wishes
Tony
BMW uses nickosil (sic?) liners in their cylinders. Very hard stuff; high mileage engine teardowns still show the cross hatching. By using synthetic too early the oil rings on the pistons may not seat entirely and cause oil consumption.

I can't believe I'm posting in an oil thread.

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post #32 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 12:53 am
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[QUOTE=grifscoots
I can't believe I'm posting in an oil thread.[/QUOTE]

Grif, you haven't been taking your Loctite have you. Now lie down, put your feet up, and take two spoons of 243. You'll feel better soon ( Oil thread, what oil thread **##%%!!
Cheers

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ET4 Thing 2

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post #33 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 4:37 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Sympathy wanted.

I talked to my local BMW Motorrad dealer yesterday and he wanted
ONLY US$ 49.- for 1 quart of Castrol Synthetic BMW Oil!!! ( %"#&%(=#&%"=!#= )

yes that is forty-nine dollars for one quart!

It is grand theft!

Luckily we have a place called Biltema which sell cheaper Motorcycycle oils with same SH data for the cheap price of US$ 14.- and they buy in bulk Mobil1 and other top brand synthetic oils also ment for Motorcycles, they just market it under their own brand.

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post #34 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 5:33 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I have asked this question before, and have never gotten a reply. Does anyone know of a 20W50 motor oil that has the "SG" or "SH" classification that is not motorcycle specfic oil? If so, I would be interesed in knowing that brands.
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post #35 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 5:48 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Talking about oil consumption, can other synthetic oil users post their normal usage and whether they consider it higher than non-syn ?.
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post #36 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 6:12 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlakin
I have asked this question before, and have never gotten a reply. Does anyone know of a 20W50 motor oil that has the "SG" or "SH" classification that is not motorcycle specfic oil? If so, I would be interesed in knowing that brands.
Amsoil make this "multi-use" oil, SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil (ARO) that meets:
* API SL/CF, CI-4 Plus
* API SJ, SH, SG...
* MIL-PRF-2104G
* JASO MA (Motorcycle)


I'm not sure if I am allowed to post the link to this product or if I did it might be censored. If you would like it, just PM or email me.
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post #37 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 7:45 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlakin
I have asked this question before, and have never gotten a reply. Does anyone know of a 20W50 motor oil that has the "SG" or "SH" classification that is not motorcycle specfic oil? If so, I would be interesed in knowing that brands.

Thats an easy one to answer. Super Tech 20-50 petroleum oil exclusively from your friends at Wally World meets your specs. Says so right there on the ugly blue and orange bottle which costs about a buck and a half. I am not a Wally World dealer, distributor shareholder or in store associate but see no reason to buy anything that cost more if that is the type of oil you want to use and change it regularly like any sane person would. By the way, the brand we don't mention runs $8.40 a quart at their website but is a synthetic alternative.

Last edited by rkimmel2; Mar 30th, 2008 at 8:15 am.
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post #38 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 9:19 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncharles
Talking about oil consumption, can other synthetic oil users post their normal usage and whether they consider it higher than non-syn ?.
I use Mobil One 15w50 and in 3k miles used none, as I did not need to add any. I am going to try the Amsoil and filters just to give it test. I am always open to new (to me) products.


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post #39 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 7:09 pm
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Thumbs up Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

50,000 miles of 2 up riding in weather from 25 degrees F to 110 degrees F on my LT. It hasn't seen dino oil since the break in. I try to change between 3 & 5000 miles, I haven't had any consumption problems and the cam lobes look like new when the valve clearances are inspected. This bike hasn't had any of the valve shims changed.
The Oil: Mobil 1 15w50 with BMW filters.

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post #40 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 7:19 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

While reading this thread I thought of something else. Doesn't BMW still sell a synthetic motorcycle engine oil? I remember my father running it in his LT. He has nopw switched to Castrol Syntec.

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post #41 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 7:47 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerdude2001
While reading this thread I thought of something else. Doesn't BMW still sell a synthetic motorcycle engine oil? I remember my father running it in his LT. He has nopw switched to Castrol Syntec.
Yes they do. That is why this thread makes little sense to me. I've seen the BMW and Amsoil synthetic engine oils in every BMW shop I've been to in Texas. This thread should be renamed "Mechanic who works in Australian BMW motorcycle shop does not recommend Synthetic oil in some BMW's". But then it would be boring, only have a few posts instead of 40 and not be viewed by 1100.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 30th, 2008 at 9:27 pm.
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post #42 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 8:08 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I was told by the dealer not to use synthetic until the engine had at least 12K which makes sense as synthetic lube impedes the break in process and the longer change interval would allow the normal bits and pieces of material to circulate for a longer period of time. As far as brand goes, as long as the lube meets of exceeds the required SAE and API specs. it should not be a problem. Remember, the API specs. are MINIMUM requirements.
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post #43 of 71 Old Mar 30th, 2008, 8:58 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

OMG!!!! Why did we wait so long for this thread? I have been using BMW/Golden Sprectra since 9K, currently at 142K, change oil every 5K and have never added oil between changes. Have adjusted valves once at 125k and the three or four I adjusted were less than .001 out of spec.


Now you guys have worked me up into such a state that I am afraid to start the motor for fear it will disintegrate......or not
and Grif I'm wonderin' the same thing about myself

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post #44 of 71 Old Mar 31st, 2008, 9:28 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Please excuse my ignorance about oil and SAE and API classifications, but what classifications exceed the "SG" or "SH" classification? BTW I have been using Amsoil 20W50 since the 12000 service. I now have 38000 with no ill effects thus far. Since I have 8 quarts left on hand, I figure I have at least another 20-24000 miles before I have to worry about it, and by then I will probably have a new bike. But is is nice to know these things for the future.
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post #45 of 71 Old Mar 31st, 2008, 9:41 am
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlakin
I have asked this question before, and have never gotten a reply. Does anyone know of a 20W50 motor oil that has the "SG" or "SH" classification that is not motorcycle specfic oil? If so, I would be interesed in knowing that brands.
Try Castrol Syntec Blend! It's 20W/50 (and other grades) and states right on the container that it exceeds API service rating SH.

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post #46 of 71 Old Mar 31st, 2008, 3:11 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlakin
Please excuse my ignorance about oil and SAE and API classifications, but what classifications exceed the "SG" or "SH" classification? BTW I have been using Amsoil 20W50 since the 12000 service. I now have 38000 with no ill effects thus far. Since I have 8 quarts left on hand, I figure I have at least another 20-24000 miles before I have to worry about it, and by then I will probably have a new bike. But is is nice to know these things for the future.
The rule of thumb is if that an oil ONLY lists API SG and/or SH, then it may be used for motorcycles. If it also lists API SJ and/or SL AND it lists JASO MA for wet clutch bikes or JASO MB for motorcycles without wet clutches, it can also be used.

If it lists API SM, you should stay away from it as it has reduced zinc, phosphorous, and other additive levels for automotive CAFE, EPA and catalytic converter concerns. This is not the best formulation for any motorcycle that I know of. No motorcycle manufacturer or motorcycle oil manufacturer I know of lists, formulates with or recommends API SM. API is backward compatible for cars, but not for motorcycles.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by TimVipond; Mar 31st, 2008 at 3:50 pm.
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post #47 of 71 Old Mar 31st, 2008, 4:39 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

I e-mailed my Service manager to see if he knows about any factory bulletins about not using synthetic oil - and there are none. He says to "use whatever makes you happy" !!!!!!

Maybe a good way to end this thread???!!!!!!!!!!

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post #48 of 71 Old Mar 31st, 2008, 5:11 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncharles
Talking about oil consumption, can other synthetic oil users post their normal usage and whether they consider it higher than non-syn ?.
See to me this is the heart of the question. Synth is just great stuff and I mean a "true" synth oil by what I understand to be the definition of synthetic. And that is a true PAO base.

So if you use synth for 12000 miles, and change a filter out at 6000 miles, you got the cost of 2 full changes with dino oil.

I still use dino as my shop said 12000 for synth and I will listen. I don't agree but he holds my warranty. He will pour in my banned brand oil, as he does already for my FD and Tranny.

I will then go the 6000 BMW recommends and call it a day. I could test and all that, but I ride seasons so I am really locked into 10w40 Winter, and 20w50 Summer.

I really don't use it for extended mileage as much as the proved benefits of a true PAO Synthetic. That is it's higher flash point, which holds the oils ability to maintain viscosity/sheer point for longer periods of time/heat. That really is the true advantage of a PAO Synthetic oil. It does keep the engine temps down. Additives are a moot point on the LT with a dry clutch, when you are in true PAO oils IMHO.

There are some guys testing, and I think Tim tests so you should be able to see some oil test results around here somewhere.

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post #49 of 71 Old Apr 2nd, 2008, 1:32 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

OK, I have an oil related question maybe someone can help me with, I assume the answer is to not use it.

MY 2000 k1200lt has 17,000 miles on it and has only used the standard bmw non-synthetic oil.

I bought 5 quarts of Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic oil a couple years back that I was going to use but never have, anyway this oil only shows API of SL and CS and says nothing else. I assume I should not use it, If I did use it it would only be for 1 time and I would get something more appropriate. Thanks.
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post #50 of 71 Old Apr 2nd, 2008, 3:06 pm
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Re: BMW not recommending Synthetic oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by camtr
OK, I have an oil related question maybe someone can help me with, I assume the answer is to not use it.

MY 2000 k1200lt has 17,000 miles on it and has only used the standard bmw non-synthetic oil.

I bought 5 quarts of Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic oil a couple years back that I was going to use but never have, anyway this oil only shows API of SL and CS and says nothing else. I assume I should not use it, If I did use it it would only be for 1 time and I would get something more appropriate. Thanks.
Mobil is a fine oil and I know I would not hesitate at all to use it in my LT. It ranks pretty good on the oil tests, well above the majority of other oils, synth and dino.

Run it, too expensive to waste for sure.

You probably have an "investment return" since you bought it when oil was cheap

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