Final Drive Failure registry - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 11:18 am Thread Starter
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Final Drive Failure registry

From another site:

There's a web site now where you can register your BMW final drive failure in hopes of attracting enough interest from the NHTSA to get a recall going:

http://bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php

You can't have everything...Where would you put it?

2004 R1150RT - sold
2006 K1200LT - sold
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post #2 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 11:53 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Not to be argumentative, but, what makes you think the NHTSA is going to see this, let alone act on it? And, what makes this failure different from any other failure ( ie: ABS pump, trunk latch, various seal failures, clutch etc. ) to warrant a recall other than not wanting to pay for the repair yourself?

Joe Van Orsdol
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post #3 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 12:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I really don't give a rat's @$$ if NHTSA sees is or not.
Like I said, saw this on another site. Just say'n...

You can't have everything...Where would you put it?

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post #4 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 1:52 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

pass, thanx.

there is no indication as to who even owns this website.

g.

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post #5 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 2:05 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by joevano
Not to be argumentative, but, what makes you think the NHTSA is going to see this, let alone act on it? And, what makes this failure different from any other failure ( ie: ABS pump, trunk latch, various seal failures, clutch etc. ) to warrant a recall other than not wanting to pay for the repair yourself?
Sounds argumentative to me but I'll respond anyway. NHTSA has received many reports of this problem which many of us believe occurs in numbers far beyond what should be acceptable and has been obvious for eight years now. The reports to NHTSA are not clustered in a single location so after much discussion on the LDRider list Jim Puckett decided to try to centralize the reporting and has been in contact with NHTSA so that they can see the numbers in one location. What makes this failure different, IMHO, is magnitude, duration and safety factors involved. I paid for my failure outside of warranty and did not seek BMWNA reimbursement but will think long and hard about buying another BMW unless they step up and find a remedy to the problem that we, the folks on this list, have discussed with them directly on several occassions over the past several years.

YMMV
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post #6 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 2:15 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I knew that would be taken wrong! I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the push for recall on this particular issue. Even if the guestimated failure rate is correct, is 4% enough for them to take action?

Joe Van Orsdol
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post #7 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 3:01 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by joevano
I knew that would be taken wrong! I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the push for recall on this particular issue. Even if the guestimated failure rate is correct, is 4% enough for them to take action?
In automotive terms, a 4% failure rate is astronomical. Recalls have been initiated over far fewer complaints, especially when there is a safety factor involved. And that's the crux of the issue here. Being stranded from a clutch failure due to a leaky seal or being unable to open your trunk is annoying, but hardly deadly. But having a rear wheel lock up at speed, or suddenly finding the rear brakes and tire covered with gear oil is unacceptably dangerous.

Remember, NHTSA stands for National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They aren't concerned with engineering annoyances, but rather they're concerned with sudden failures that can lead to a serious risk of death or injury. Think along the lines of a total ABS failure, or a leaky fuel tank above an exhaust system, or a sudden tire failure due to internal damage.

And yes, I know that this site has been all over the final drive issues for many years. We've spoken to NHTSA, and to BMW, and to anyone who would listen. But even the existing NHTSA reports are spread over a bunch of different bikes and categories so there's no clear picture of the magnitude of the problem.

Jim Puckett (the website owner) is a well known and respected rider who has taken all the ranting about BMW quality on the LDRider list and is trying to turn it into something positive. The main difference here is that Jim is trying to collect data from all BMW final drive failures on all models and years, and collate that into a single useful database than can be presented to his NHTSA contact directly.

Now I can't say that he'll have any better luck than we have, but if he's willing to put the time and effort into this project then I figure supporting him by adding data of known failures is the least we can do. All three of my final drive failures are in his database already.

Ken
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Last edited by meese; Feb 22nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm.
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post #8 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 3:13 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Thanks Praxis! I learned more from the NHTSA website:

What Is a safety-related defect?

The United States Code for Motor Vehicle Safety (Title 49, Chapter 301) defines motor vehicle safety as “the performance of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in a way that protects the public against unreasonable risk of accidents occurring because of the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against unreasonable risk of death or injury in an accident, and includes nonoperational safety of a motor vehicle.” A defect includes “any defect in performance, construction, a component, or material of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment.” Generally, a safety defect is defined as a problem that exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that:

* poses an risk to motor vehicle safety, and
* may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture.

Examples of defects considered safety-related

* Steering components that break suddenly causing partial or complete loss of vehicle control.
* Problems with fuel system components, particularly in their susceptibility to crash damage, that result in leakage of fuel and possibly cause vehicle fires.
* Accelerator controls that may break or stick.
* Wheels that crack or break, resulting in loss of vehicle control.
* Engine cooling fan blades that break unexpectedly causing injury to persons working on a vehicle.
* Windshield wiper assemblies that fail to operate properly.
* Seats and/or seat backs that fail unexpectedly during normal use.
* Critical vehicle components that break, fall apart, or separate from the vehicle, causing potential loss of vehicle control or injury to persons inside or outside the vehicle.
* Wiring system problems that result in a fire or loss of lighting.
* Car ramps or jacks that may collapse and cause injury to someone working on a vehicle.
* Air bags that deploy under conditions for which they are not intended to deploy.
* Child safety seats that contain defective safety belts, buckles, or components that create a risk of injury, not only in a vehicle crash but also in non-operational safety of a motor vehicle.

How many reports must be filed before NHTSA investigates an issue?

There is no established number. Agency technical experts review each and every call, letter, and online report of an alleged safety problem filed with NHTSA. Although NHTSA has no jurisdiction over defects that are not safety-related, it does review each report that suggests a potential safety defect involving groups of motor vehicles or vehicle equipment.

I just wanted to understand, not get flamed!

Joe Van Orsdol
Zimmerman Mn
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post #9 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:23 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Jim Puckett (the website owner) is a well known and respected rider who has taken all the ranting about BMW quality on the LDRider list and is trying to turn it into something positive. The main difference here is that Jim is trying to collect data from all BMW final drive failures on all models and years, and collate that into a single useful database than can be presented to his NHTSA contact directly.
You might suggest to Jim that he also track the mileage when the failure occurs - just to get a more complete picture.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #10 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:26 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by joevano
I just wanted to understand, not get flamed!
No problem, and kudos fro doing your own research.

Remember, the NHTSA is only going to get involved if there is an imminent risk of sudden failure that could lead to a death or serious injury. Their focused is public safety, not quality control or consumer satisfaction.

I just hope that we can get solid action on this issue before someone is seriously injured from a final drive failure.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from . . .
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post #11 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:34 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Can't but agree there Ken - good move!

Which just makes these kinds of childish entries all the more maddening. I can only hope the twit that did this isn't someone here.

Quote:
18 This Sucks SAC CA 95467 12316546546465 2007 BMW 1/1/92 Sweet primitive database.. It would be real useful if the fields were actually validated and MILEAGE was actually one of the variables collected! Love the misspelling all over the place too, "Faiure Date" DUH!

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post #12 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:50 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
You might suggest to Jim that he also track the mileage when the failure occurs - just to get a more complete picture.
Done. I know you had a lot of contact on this issue in the past, Randy. Mind if I hook you two up in case he has any questions?

Ken
SoCal
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting . . .
'12 Mineral Silver Metallic K16GTLD, 59K miles and gone.
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 32,690 miles & now rebuilt!
'07 Dark Graphite Metallic K12GT, 138,220 miles & now rebuilt!
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from . . .
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post #13 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:51 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotter
Can't but agree there Ken - good move!

Which just makes these kinds of childish entries all the more maddening. I can only hope the twit that did this isn't someone here.
Already noted. It'll be pulled soon enough.

Ken
SoCal
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting . . .
'12 Mineral Silver Metallic K16GTLD, 59K miles and gone.
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 32,690 miles & now rebuilt!
'07 Dark Graphite Metallic K12GT, 138,220 miles & now rebuilt!
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from . . .
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post #14 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:52 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
From another site:

There's a web site now where you can register your BMW final drive failure in hopes of attracting enough interest from the NHTSA to get a recall going:

http://bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php
Thank you for providing the link; I saved it to my favorites as I knocked on the wooden desk top!

Regards,
Curt

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post #15 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 4:54 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I posted the link on another BMW site(s).


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post #16 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 5:10 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Ken,

Do me a favor and don't park your scoot anywhere near mine at CCR. I don't want her to learn this trick that yours obviously has down pat. I see your name on that list three times!!! Would that make you a 4 to the 3rd power %er?

Jerry
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post #17 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 6:03 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Ken, is anyone trying to get the spreadsheet Jeff had to Jim? It probably would be pretty easy to port the information into the new database. I would like to put my old failure in, but if it can be put in from Jeff's data they will get a good number of them in one fell swoop. Besides, I would have to look up paperwork to know the date of my drive failure.

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post #18 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 6:21 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Mind if I hook you two up in case he has any questions?
Of course I do not mind. I'll send you the best contact info by PM.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #19 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 9:12 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmmm90s
pass, thanx.

There is no indication as to who even owns this website.
I set it up after noting that:

1) after 10 years of significant numbers of FD failures, BMW still has not gotten it right (e.g. all new design is failing in significant numbers too)

2) the biggest problem with reporting FD failures to the NHTSA is no consistent (standardized) way to file these failures so that all BMW FD failures show up in the same "group".

The 5th level NHTSA classification is Component. Listed below are the choices I encountered this morning for a 1999 BMW K1200LT:

1. Power Train
2. Power Train:Axle Assembly
3. Power Train:Axle Assembly:Axle Shaft
4. Power Train:Axle Hub
5. Power Train:Drive Line
6. Power Train:Drive Line:Differential Unit
7. Power Train:Drive Line:Drive Shaft
8. Power Train:Drive Line:Universal Joint

When I explored a 2002 BMW K1200LT, the 5th level component choices were:

1. Power Train:Drive Line
2. Power Train:Drive Line:Center Bearing Support
3. Power Train:Drive Line:Differential Unit
4. Power Train:Manual Transmission
5. Power Train:Manual Transmission:Floor Shift Assembly

Hell, there are even incidences of FD failures filed under brakes because the final drive leaked oil onto the brake pads

Since the FD failures cross BMW motorcycle models, model years, and now, even fundamentally different FD designs, there is no way NHTSA has a clue about the magnitude of this potentially fatal defect!

On 2/18/08, Karl Best <karl@karlbest.com> wrote:
Has anyone contacted the NHTSA to suggest that there's a problem with
their classification categories? Feedback may help.

I have written a formal complaint to the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) after receiving a reply to my email sent 6 days ago and talking to them over the telephone yesterday. I have also set up a free MySQL database on www.bmwfinaldrive.com. This database is similar to Jeff Eagan's survey on www.bmwlt.com. There are 172 failure entries in the BMW LT survey, but only 48% have reported their failure to the NHTSA ODI.

Getting all of the data to the NHTSA in such a manner that they classify it as the same fundamental defect and recognize the potential to cause a serious accident is probably the only way short of a documented fatality to make BMW own up to this problem.

Jim Puckett
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post #20 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 10:13 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Jim

I've learned a lot about this issue today. Since I just bought my '02 last week, at this point I'm a 96 percenter. I appreciate all the work you have put into this, and for all of us, THANKS!!

Joe Van Orsdol
Zimmerman Mn
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post #21 of 241 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 11:56 pm
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Cool Re: Final Drive Failure registry

A big Tks to Jim for taking this on! And i agree with Ken that we should provide all the ammo we can from our site here. To that end I just finished searching our archives for the "Rear Drive Failure" Thread on our site so that I could faithfully reproduce the facts for Jim's registry. If anyone else feels inclined to do the same, here is the link to our thread for those like myself who had already posted there:
http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/show...s&Number=17109

And even though I had added my failure to the NHTSA complaint database back then ('05) I do recall that it was difficult deciding just what category it should be filed under! So there is a problem with accurate numbers there for that reason. Hopefully Jim can help NHTSA see the light!

John

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post #22 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 2:32 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Ken, is anyone trying to get the spreadsheet Jeff had to Jim?
Already working the back channels on that one.

And you can see that Jim has now signed on here, with an excellent explanation of the direction he's heading.

Ken
SoCal
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting . . .
'12 Mineral Silver Metallic K16GTLD, 59K miles and gone.
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 32,690 miles & now rebuilt!
'07 Dark Graphite Metallic K12GT, 138,220 miles & now rebuilt!
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from . . .
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post #23 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 2:37 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewuff
Do me a favor and don't park your scoot anywhere near mine at CCR. I don't want her to learn this trick that yours obviously has down pat. I see your name on that list three times!!! Would that make you a 4 to the 3rd power %er?
Um, I don't think it's catching, regardless of CCR & IBR statistics.

I'm down for 2 1/2 failures on two LTs (two bearings and one seal failure). I just keep fixin' 'em and ridin' 'em, but I am grateful that due to this website I knew enough about this failure mode to catch things early so that none of my failures involved an accident or injury.

Ken
SoCal
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting . . .
'12 Mineral Silver Metallic K16GTLD, 59K miles and gone.
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 32,690 miles & now rebuilt!
'07 Dark Graphite Metallic K12GT, 138,220 miles & now rebuilt!
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from . . .
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post #24 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 6:16 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Admin's. Might it be worth linking to Jim's page from the LT home page? Just a thought as 12 months from now if I or someone else has a failure, rather than search for the link having it up front would make it easier...

Mark
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post #25 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:24 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Just typing some observations.
  • 12 out of 30 reports are LTs . . . not too shabby. What's the problem?
  • Meese has 3 outta 30 of the reports submitted. What a whiner!
  • Meese has 3 reports submitted. I personally nominate him for the "BMW Stick-To-Itiveness" award. Good job Ken!
  • Once I submit my report, I'll be part of The Few, The Proud, The FD Thrashers!
  • Who gives a rip who owns the site?
  • Here's to another FD thread.
  • My current FD has a 0% chance of failing as long as the snow keeps failing.
  • Ride > Break > Fix > Repeat.
Just sayin'...
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post #26 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:19 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

+1 on everything messenger13 says...

Hang on... I mean everything just above this post.

Mark
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post #27 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:37 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by joevano
Not to be argumentative, but, what makes you think the NHTSA is going to see this, let alone act on it? And, what makes this failure different from any other failure ( ie: ABS pump, trunk latch, various seal failures, clutch etc. ) to warrant a recall other than not wanting to pay for the repair yourself?
The one critical element that separates this failure form the others you mention: The propensity to dump gear oil all over the rear tire when failure occurs.

Just for the sake of discussion, lets say that one is rounding a long, high speed right hand sweeper, just when the rear drive decides to puke oil all over the rear wheel and tire. While we have not heard of this happening, I think the probability is high that it will at some point. We've also seen at least one catch fire.

The failures of rear drives alone may not warrant NHTSA action, but the safety implications certainly should.

For the record, I wouldn't hesitate to take off on an LT (or any other BMW) for a long journey and I still prefer these bikes to others on the market. That said, I cannot, for the life of me, understand how this failure has eluded NHTSA scrutiny thus far. Personally, I think it is reflective of the general bias against motorcycles in the population at large - which certainly filters into the government.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #28 of 241 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:40 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliMar
Admin's. Might it be worth linking to Jim's page from the LT home page? Just a thought as 12 months from now if I or someone else has a failure, rather than search for the link having it up front would make it easier...
For now we will stick this thread at the top of the forum.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #29 of 241 Old Mar 11th, 2008, 4:38 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I have not had a FD failure, but the numbers (4% failure rate) I think are totally unacceptable. My '98 Kawi Vulcan has over 100,000 miles with never a thought about that kind of problem. I love riding the LT, but the thoughts of being stranded 2000 miles from home in the middle of nowhere, with my wife, make me think about this way too much. I still "just ride the bike", but my next purchase will probably involve these thoughts in helping to make the decision. I hope BMW steps up to the plate and makes this problem right like most major players would.

Greg and Melanie
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post #30 of 241 Old Mar 11th, 2008, 5:27 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWWANDRR
I have not had a FD failure, but the numbers (4% failure rate) I think are totally unacceptable.
How did you calculate 4%?

Ted

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post #31 of 241 Old Mar 11th, 2008, 9:19 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Post #7 on this thread. It seems to be the % most quoted.

Greg and Melanie
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post #32 of 241 Old Mar 11th, 2008, 9:50 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWWANDRR
Post #7 on this thread. It seems to be the % most quoted.
There aren't any %'s on Post #7.

Ted

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post #33 of 241 Old Mar 12th, 2008, 8:25 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by joevano
Even if the guestimated failure rate is correct, is 4% enough for them to take action?
This is the one I'm talking about.

Greg and Melanie
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post #34 of 241 Old Mar 20th, 2008, 6:21 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I have heard the 3-4% quoted for the last three years. But, it sure would be nice to know where that number is coming from and where it has been quantified and documented. Since it is my understanding BMW doesn't release that information, it sure would be nice to know. It just seems to be some number the everyone talks about..


Can anyone speak to this.
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post #35 of 241 Old Mar 20th, 2008, 7:31 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
I have heard the 3-4% quoted for the last three years. But, it sure would be nice to know where that number is coming from and where it has been quantified and documented. Since it is my understanding BMW doesn't release that information, it sure would be nice to know. It just seems to be some number the everyone talks about..


Can anyone speak to this.
The "4%" was really approx 3.6% and was calculated on estimated failures thru 2002. So, to be a "true" 4%er, your bike should be from model years 1999 - 2002.

Check out this post, especially David Shealey's post and Randy's reply - it explains the history very well:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...20952#poststop

This is virtually a non-issue for LT's w/ model year 2003 & newer.

Ted

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post #36 of 241 Old Mar 22nd, 2008, 3:57 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I'm bettin there is no recall until a fatality or two can be traced to the FD failure....[reactive] is the way the Beauracratic wheel turns.

Mark
03' BMW LTE
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post #37 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 6:37 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
For now we will stick this thread at the top of the forum.
I'm still waiting for the Jeff Eagan survey data to insert into the www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php database.

There is no 4.0% rule for serious injury and/or life threatening mechanical or electrical failures.

The new final drives in the latest BMW motorcycles are failing at an unacceptable rate also. This is simply unbelievable. If there is ever a next generation LT based on a higher torque, lower horsepower version of the K1200GT engine, LT FD failures might resume once again.

Jim Puckett
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post #38 of 241 Old Apr 23rd, 2008, 10:21 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

dont no if dis goez hear or not butt the F.D.belt on de harley broke 2nite so harley riderz have reaend problemz 2
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post #39 of 241 Old May 14th, 2008, 3:17 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=jc_puckett]

There is no 4.0% rule for serious injury and/or life threatening mechanical or electrical failures.

The new final drives in the latest BMW motorcycles are failing at an unacceptable rate also. This is simply unbelievable. If there is ever a next generation LT based on a higher torque, lower horsepower version of the K1200GT engine, LT FD failures might resume once again.

Jim mine failed last Wednesday on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel at Mile Marker 9. I managed to limp it back to one of the oasis to get help. It was replaced with a BRAND NEW Final Drive, and now with 900 miles on it, I can already feel a vibration in the rear. That failure was number 2. The LT only had about 12K on a 'new' bearing.

I am POSITIVE that it will fail AGAIN! This really bothers me! I love this bike, really. If that bearing would have failed a day earlier, we were 400 miles from a dealer! Hell we were in the mountains of West VA. We were 30 minutes from ANYONE!! That would have SUCKED!!

It boggles my mind as to why this isn't being investigated....

Scott

2008 Concours
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post #40 of 241 Old May 24th, 2008, 1:29 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I only saw 1 2007 on the list and no 2008's. Has the FD failure issue been fixed after 2007, or has anyone heard of an incident with a later model? I am one week from purchasing a 2009.

E.
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post #41 of 241 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 4:40 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Howdy folks!

Now it was my turn. A few days ago I heard a strange and unfamilar sound from the rear part of my LT. Started with a little svjis svisj sound, Then a tsjug tsjug, wich acellerated to a noicy kadang, kadang and a 2. degree burning on my fingertip when touching the final drive housing. The guy from the road rescue service told me that it was not the first time the company had to rescue stranded LT's with final drive failure, even German LT's on vacation trips to Norway they had to carry back home to Germany and Norwegian LT's from southern Europe back to Norway. My LT is a 2004 mod. with 30000 km on the speedometer, and I had a 20000 km service about six months ago so the oil level and everything else should be OK. I've been told from the guys at the "hospital" that the failure will cost me about $ 8.000,-, but have to wait for a week before I know for sure. I've been driving BMW's since 1976 and have never experienced this kind of failure. Is the Goldwing getting closer???

By the way: The 27. this month, my wife and I will arrive at O'Hare and after three days we'll start our Historic Route 66 trip on an Electra Glide to LA. Our first night stop will be at DAYS INN ST CHARLES (St. Louis)

Best Regards

Jostein Bø
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post #42 of 241 Old Jul 4th, 2008, 10:20 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Its not mne anymore but wanted to add it in. My 2000 LT-S with about 23K on it. I traded it in the week before Memorial Day for a new RT. Gene at Mathias (wonderful dealership BTW!) let me know about a week ago that the guy who bought it put about 500 miles on it and the final drive failed. I had no indication it was in trouble when I traded it in and the dealer did not either.

'08 Silver RT - That's what I'm talkin' bout!

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post #43 of 241 Old Jul 6th, 2008, 10:41 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

See, that is the problem with you guys. You are riding a jinxed bike. Should have gotten something else - like a 'GS.

Oh... wait... what's that crap?


I'll never learn.

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #44 of 241 Old Jul 24th, 2008, 2:41 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

A mechanical engineer who ownes several BMW's told me that BMW is certainly irresponsible when responding to common mechanical design errors.
An example might be FD. BMW Recalls are few not because their are fewer errors but because BMW has a history of not addressing common design faults. Honda is automatic.
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post #45 of 241 Old Aug 7th, 2008, 12:22 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

FYI - Motorcycle Consumer News will feature an article on this issue in the Sept edition. Should be interesting to see what they have to add to the mix.

My '03 is still going strong...34k with half pulling a Bunkhouse. Got my fingers, arms and toes crossed but so far so good.
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post #46 of 241 Old Aug 10th, 2008, 9:52 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by harleeetom
FYI - Motorcycle Consumer News will feature an article on this issue in the Sept edition. Should be interesting to see what they have to add to the mix.

My '03 is still going strong...34k with half pulling a Bunkhouse. Got my fingers, arms and toes crossed but so far so good.
Just read the MCN article - Four pages entitled "Tarnished Roundel". That's some serious editorial space given to a problem BMW continues to ignore publicly. I don't know that I know any local LT owner who didn't have an FD event of some kind. The article concludes that BMW has a serious PR problem. Amen. Although I love the bike, I just plain wanted to do something different for awhile, so I sold the LT and bought a Triumph. Maybe by the time I'm ready for a beemer again, the problem will be resolved. Anecdotally, I'd venture to say the failure rate is not far from 100%. It's not a matter of IF but WHEN.

Dave Moore
Boerne, Texas
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post #47 of 241 Old Aug 14th, 2008, 5:44 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

The www.bmwfinaldrive.com registry database has been down since I upgraded Parallels Plesk from version 8.2 to 8.6 on my GoDaddy virtual dedicated server yesterday morning. GoDaddy is working on the problem.

I will be departing for Tulsa at 8 AM this morning, so it is unlikely that I will be able to restore the MySQL database and PHP application until my return from the IBA National Meet.

In light of two (2) known FD failures in the SPANK rally during the past 6 hours and the September MCN article, the Final Drive Failure registry may be the best place to consolidate failure details and statistics since BMW Motorrad NA still has their head up their ass.

Jim Puckett
Jackson, MO
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post #48 of 241 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 11:07 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

If you've had a rear drive failure, please participate in our rear drive failure survey at: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/survey.php?do=take&sid=28


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post #49 of 241 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 12:22 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
If you've had a rear drive failure, please participate in our rear drive failure survey at: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/survey.php?do=take&sid=28
Also, please log your FD failure information into the database at www.bmwfinaldrive.com because...

as Ken Meese emailed me on August 14, 2008

"As of now, there isn't an easy way to pull the raw data off the BMWLT website database. I'm afraid it may have to be manually entered, or otherwise need a lot of copy/paste.


I've just spent the last week criss-crossing the country during the Spank Endurance Rally. 23 states and 7,600 miles in 7 days, then my rear drive gave out on my '07 GT. :^( I'm now sitting in a Waffle House in Nowhere, AR at 3 a.m. waiting for a tow truck.

This is now my third brand-new BMW that has had a rear drive failure. Methinks the Kool-aid is beginning to taste a little funny . . ."


Ken
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post #50 of 241 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 6:17 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWWANDRR
I have not had a FD failure, but the numbers (4% failure rate) I think are totally unacceptable. My '98 Kawi Vulcan has over 100,000 miles with never a thought about that kind of problem. I love riding the LT, but the thoughts of being stranded 2000 miles from home in the middle of nowhere, with my wife, make me think about this way too much. I still "just ride the bike", but my next purchase will probably involve these thoughts in helping to make the decision. I hope BMW steps up to the plate and makes this problem right like most major players would.
You raised a good point. BMW isn't a major player in the motorcycle business. Perhaps the company has lost interest in conquests and believes that the hard core will grin and bear it?
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