Final Drive Failure registry - Page 5 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #201 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 1:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
About all you can do is grab the rear wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock and try to wiggle it. There should be NO movement, if you do have movement make sure the entire drive in not moving as that could be pivot bearings (not applicable to the newer EVO drives with the big hole in the middle). regular oil changes and look for shiny bits on the magnet (gray fuzz is OK).

The EVO drives have failed but they are much more rare than the early drives.
Thanks. I have been careful not to jerk anything on shifts or launch the bike hard but have done several 80-85 MPH interstate runs including the run to Charleston and back after church last Sun (435 miles round trip, around 6 - 6.5 hrs saddle time). Those 80-85 MPH runs always include a few bursts to 90+ to find my place in traffic. I do love that I am confident enough to ride this bike at those speeds even 2 up. Still scary that the dealer just unarbitrarily exempts an expensive part from the warranty. Thanks, Steve
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post #202 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 1:13 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

It's hard to imagine that BMW will not cover final drives as a warranty item on a new bike...

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post #203 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 2:53 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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It's hard to imagine that BMW will not cover final drives as a warranty item on a new bike...
When the salesman told me that I almost walked on buying the bike. I decided if it failed and they refused coverage it would be a legal issue for the lawyers to discuss and my legal advisor said in as many words they would either have to prove it was mistreated and I had broken it through abuse or they WOULD replace or repair it, no matter their opinion on the subject. I assume that applied only to an early life failure and would be more difficult as time and miles went by but I don't know. I am all for the NHTSA forcing BMW to make this issue right. Steve
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post #204 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 6:58 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I agree if you bought the bike new it is covered. THEY may not want to do it but darn near every other dealer would cover it. May want to let BMW NA know about this dealer and what he told you.

John
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post #205 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 7:09 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by Why aint we riding View Post
When the salesman told me that I almost walked on buying the bike. I decided if it failed and they refused coverage it would be a legal issue for the lawyers to discuss and my legal advisor said in as many words they would either have to prove it was mistreated and I had broken it through abuse or they WOULD replace or repair it, no matter their opinion on the subject. I assume that applied only to an early life failure and would be more difficult as time and miles went by but I don't know. I am all for the NHTSA forcing BMW to make this issue right. Steve
I have a K1300GT in the shop now with a trashed final drive. It has less than 17000 miles on it. It is out of warranty but the dealer is going to talk with BMW NA to see if they are willing to replace it. I will give an update when they tell me what BMW NA says.

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1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #206 of 241 Old Mar 23rd, 2015, 9:38 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Re-thinking when in our conversation this particularly alarming fact emerged I need to go back and clarify his meaning. We were speaking about my lightly spirited riding style at the time and where the bike would be weak. Maybe I read more into his statement than I should have. The dealership itself hasn't been bad to deal with so far and thankfully I haven't had to deal with any issues yet. Unfortunately I did have a mild issue with the bike the last few days I will have looked at this week. Steve
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post #207 of 241 Old Apr 10th, 2015, 6:18 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by alstrickland55 View Post
I have a K1300GT in the shop now with a trashed final drive. It has less than 17000 miles on it. It is out of warranty but the dealer is going to talk with BMW NA to see if they are willing to replace it. I will give an update when they tell me what BMW NA says.
The final drive has been replaced. BMW NA gave me a $275 discount due to the low mileage. My dealer also gave me a discount but the job still cost $2K. Ouch... Anyway at least I have a 2 year warranty on the new final drive.

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1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #208 of 241 Old Apr 10th, 2015, 9:06 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Riding style has nothing to do with drive failures. Most were just not put together correctly from the get go. Others were tolerance add ups put it out of the normal range. Either way a rebuild of an LT drive can usually be done for less than 250 for parts.

John
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post #209 of 241 Old May 2nd, 2015, 7:31 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry - 2013 R1200RT

Well, just completed my first 12k service on my RT. When I pulled the FD drain plug, there was an 8mm chunk of curved metal attached, along with 5 or 6 2-4 mm flakes. Looks like bearing cage failure. Dropped the bike at the dealer - obviously still in warranty.

Anyone know if the 2007 RT FD will work in the 2013? I obtained one as a backup and alternate gearing for my 2008 GS (fit that bike just fine). Always good to have a spare, warranty or not.
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post #210 of 241 Old May 2nd, 2015, 8:07 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry - 2013 R1200RT

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Well, just completed my first 12k service on my RT. When I pulled the FD drain plug, there was an 8mm chunk of curved metal attached, along with 5 or 6 2-4 mm flakes. Looks like bearing cage failure. Dropped the bike at the dealer - obviously still in warranty.

Anyone know if the 2007 RT FD will work in the 2013? I obtained one as a backup and alternate gearing for my 2008 GS (fit that bike just fine). Always good to have a spare, warranty or not.
Wow, still can't make a decent final drive after all these years. I thought by 2013 they would have had their assembly issues sorted out.

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post #211 of 241 Old May 2nd, 2015, 6:34 pm
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Angry Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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The final drive has been replaced. BMW NA gave me a $275 discount due to the low mileage. My dealer also gave me a discount but the job still cost $2K. Ouch... Anyway at least I have a 2 year warranty on the new final drive.
That is totally unacceptable! What you are saying is you basically spent $2000 on an extended warranty that only covers the FD, and I wonder how much would be covered if that one fails. I would have had a lawyer tell them eat the costs or eat the FD along with the rest of the bike. Did they offer to kiss u first and take u to dinner? What is sad and setting a bad precedent is you allowed them to get away with it.

Jeff
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post #212 of 241 Old May 2nd, 2015, 6:53 pm
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Angry Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by alstrickland55 View Post
The final drive has been replaced. BMW NA gave me a $275 discount due to the low mileage. My dealer also gave me a discount but the job still cost $2K. Ouch... Anyway at least I have a 2 year warranty on the new final drive.
That is totally unacceptable! What you are saying is you basically spent $2000 on an extended warranty that only covers the FD, and I wonder how much would be covered if that one fails. I would have had a lawyer tell them eat the costs or eat the FD along with the rest of the bike. Did they offer to kiss u first and take u to dinner? What is sad and setting a bad precedent is you allowed them to get away with it.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
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post #213 of 241 Old May 12th, 2015, 11:01 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Looks like I have joined the club On Sunday I went to change the fluid in the final drive and discovered that the oil was silver. To top it off there was one piece of the bearing cage stuck to the magnet. I took it apart tonight and discovered that I was probably pretty lucky to catch it now. I found 8 broken sections but somehow it stayed together until I spun it. My mileage is sitting at 48K. I am the 3rd owner and I don't believe the oils were changed regularly. I am just finishing up replacing the rear main seal, transmission seals and now need to work on the final. Hope it all works when it goes back together.
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post #214 of 241 Old May 13th, 2015, 6:44 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

You will be fine. Just shim it correctly.

John
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post #215 of 241 Old Jul 20th, 2015, 7:41 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

52K miles on my 2000 K1200LT I picked up a few weeks ago.

The back end sounded and felt a bit grindy, so I ordered a new crown bearing and seal from maxbmwmotorcycles. Shortly after arriving, I was cornering and the back tire collapsed on me. I manged to stay upright. The bead actually broke. The tire didn't seem to have any punctures in it, but it was pretty well worn. I waited to receive the new tire, a Metzeler ME880 16070-17VB 79V, from MotoSport, before starting the tire and final drive job. I also picked up a 1800 Lb Capacity Motorcycle Stand/Wheel Chock from Harbor Freight since having a 900 lbs bike fall over while a wheel is off is not a happy, or cheap, scenario.

With the back tire flat, I was still able to ride it onto the wheel chock. I then jacked the bike up enough to get the center stand down and make the bike stable.

Getting the back tire off was a breeze. I opted to do the crown bearing replacement without removing the entire final drive. It was a wise choice. Removing the entire unit seems a bit pointless unless you are determined to replace some other bearings and seals. I had to use a torch on the two screws that hold the brake disk on, since they have locktite on them, but they came out easily after being heated.

I had to use a chisel and hammer around the edges of the old bearing to start getting it separated. When it was far enough out, I switched to using a couple 24" tire irons and it came fully off with ease. The combination freezer and oven technique also made the assembly quite easy.

The old bearing was not totally chewed to pieces, like some have experienced, but it was certainly a bit loose and noisy.

Not including the tools I bought, the bearing replacement ran about $140 total and was well worth it.

Many thanks to everyone that has provided excellent guidance on this particular issue.

-Steff
Kissimmee, FL
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post #216 of 241 Old Jul 20th, 2015, 8:33 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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52K miles on my 2000 K1200LT I picked up a few weeks ago.

The back end sounded and felt a bit grindy, so I ordered a new crown bearing and seal from maxbmwmotorcycles. Shortly after arriving, I was cornering and the back tire collapsed on me. I manged to stay upright. The bead actually broke. The tire didn't seem to have any punctures in it, but it was pretty well worn. I waited to receive the new tire, a Metzeler ME880 16070-17VB 79V, from MotoSport, before starting the tire and final drive job. I also picked up a 1800 Lb Capacity Motorcycle Stand/Wheel Chock from Harbor Freight since having a 900 lbs bike fall over while a wheel is off is not a happy, or cheap, scenario.

With the back tire flat, I was still able to ride it onto the wheel chock. I then jacked the bike up enough to get the center stand down and make the bike stable.

Getting the back tire off was a breeze. I opted to do the crown bearing replacement without removing the entire final drive. It was a wise choice. Removing the entire unit seems a bit pointless unless you are determined to replace some other bearings and seals. I had to use a torch on the two screws that hold the brake disk on, since they have locktite on them, but they came out easily after being heated.

I had to use a chisel and hammer around the edges of the old bearing to start getting it separated. When it was far enough out, I switched to using a couple 24" tire irons and it came fully off with ease. The combination freezer and oven technique also made the assembly quite easy.

The old bearing was not totally chewed to pieces, like some have experienced, but it was certainly a bit loose and noisy.

Not including the tools I bought, the bearing replacement ran about $140 total and was well worth it.

Many thanks to everyone that has provided excellent guidance on this particular issue.

-Steff
Kissimmee, FL
It would be good to read some of the many threads on why the FD fails and how to prevent it. There is a very important reason to remove the FD for the bearing replacement. It isn't pointless, you just missed the point!

The main cause of bearing failure is improper shimming. By simply replacing the bearing and not setting the proper preload, you are just throwing another good bearing onto the scrap pile in the not too distant future. I believe those here knowledgeable in FD rebuilds consider the "on the bike" bearing replacement to be an emergency roadside repair only until you can get to a shop for a proper repair.

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post #217 of 241 Old Jul 21st, 2015, 7:24 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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It isn't pointless, you just missed the point!
OK, agreeably, "pointless" was a bit strong. I actually DID start out thinking I would yank the whole thing. I picked up the "1 In Travel Machinist's Dial Indicator" & "Multi-Position Magnetic Base With Fine Adjustment" from Harbor Freight and stopped in my local BMW shop here in Orlando to see if they had shims. The parts department did not. The parts guy went to ask the service techs. One of them came out and told me (paraphrasing here) "yeah, we have a handful of them for when we do final drive repairs, we'll sell 'em to you for $7 of pop, but we've never had to reshim a final drive if the shims haven't been damaged". I took that to mean they never measure to see if a drive was properly shimmed, as if the factory can do no wrong or something.

Anyway, my working conditions are pretty well "road-side". I live in a travel trailer and had to do this repair in the blazing hot Florida sun. So, when I saw the quick-and-dirty repair that sounded like it fit the bill quite nicely. If the bearing last the equivalent of (2) rear tire lives (~35K miles), I will be more than thrilled and totally willing to do it again for another $140 ... hopefully in A/C where I can spend time (re)assembling and measuring with the dial thingy to ensure the proper preload.

I'm also thrilled with my new desk toy, the old bearing. I get to spin it around and annoy my coworkers! Double plus good!

-Steff
Kissimee, FL
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post #218 of 241 Old Jul 21st, 2015, 12:31 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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"yeah, we have a handful of them for when we do final drive repairs, we'll sell 'em to you for $7 of pop, but we've never had to reshim a final drive if the shims haven't been damaged". I took that to mean they never measure to see if a drive was properly shimmed, as if the factory can do no wrong or something.

A comment like that from an authorized BMW repair shop is discouraging seeing that most of the failed FD repaired by the masters on the forum have reportedly been shimmed incorrectly from the factory. Especially seeing they are using the recommended pre-load in their rebuilds.

I am doing mine preemptively this week at 52K but I will be taking the FD off so I can do all the measurements. I am curious how mine is set up now and what it will look like when I am done.

I read your procedure with great interest as I thought I might be able to save some time and was going to ask you how you set the preload but it is apparent you used the existing shims and reassembled it as it was. Some have failed in a very few thousand miles so keep a good eye on it so you don't get yourself stranded. If there was any measurable difference in the old bearing vs the new one, the issue could be compounded.

I did a blown head gasket on my Thunderbird in the August Florida heat and I couldn't keep enough water in me. Hope you can find a better place if you have to do it again.

Good luck and welcome to the forum Steff. The LT is a great riding machine with a few quirks.

Gordon
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post #219 of 241 Old Jul 21st, 2015, 3:05 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by anarchosteff View Post
OK, agreeably, "pointless" was a bit strong. I actually DID start out thinking I would yank the whole thing. I picked up the "1 In Travel Machinist's Dial Indicator" & "Multi-Position Magnetic Base With Fine Adjustment" from Harbor Freight and stopped in my local BMW shop here in Orlando to see if they had shims. The parts department did not. The parts guy went to ask the service techs. One of them came out and told me (paraphrasing here) "yeah, we have a handful of them for when we do final drive repairs, we'll sell 'em to you for $7 of pop, but we've never had to reshim a final drive if the shims haven't been damaged". I took that to mean they never measure to see if a drive was properly shimmed, as if the factory can do no wrong or something.

Anyway, my working conditions are pretty well "road-side". I live in a travel trailer and had to do this repair in the blazing hot Florida sun. So, when I saw the quick-and-dirty repair that sounded like it fit the bill quite nicely. If the bearing last the equivalent of (2) rear tire lives (~35K miles), I will be more than thrilled and totally willing to do it again for another $140 ... hopefully in A/C where I can spend time (re)assembling and measuring with the dial thingy to ensure the proper preload.

I'm also thrilled with my new desk toy, the old bearing. I get to spin it around and annoy my coworkers! Double plus good!

-Steff
Kissimee, FL
That is all too typical of an incompetent mechanic. An FD that fails at less than 200,000 miles for any reason other than abuse (run low on oil, no oil changes, etc.) has something wrong with it. A good mechanic will determine why a bearing failed prematurely and correct the problem. An incompetent hack will just blindly replace parts.

If you are lucky, you may get as many miles on this bearing as on the last. If you are unlucky, the new bearing will fail in the middle of nowhere in a thunderstorm and out of cell phone coverage. So, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?
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post #220 of 241 Old Jul 23rd, 2015, 9:44 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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So, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?
Well, I didn't feel lucky so I pulled mine today and found a whole new world of colors inside that I didn't expect. Looks like water got in from a PO as I have never ridden it on a rainy day yet. Looks like a good bit of wear on the pinion but the pattern is good.

Is this common for seeing all this sludge or not?
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post #221 of 241 Old Jul 28th, 2015, 10:26 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Mine failed. 2014 in June.

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post #222 of 241 Old Jul 28th, 2015, 10:37 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Mine was well on its way to failure. The bearing I pulled out had a good bit of movement between the races so I know it wasn't long for this world. Turned out to be .35mm over shimmed which has now been corrected. Hope it has a long uneventful rest of its life now

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
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post #223 of 241 Old Sep 11th, 2015, 3:34 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

The final drive on my 02 LT failed last October, about 200 miles from home. The bike had 89K on it. I am 3rd owner and have had it since 24.8K. At about 50K (second time I changed the final drive oil), I did not like what I took out, so after that I short-cycled the changes, changing about every 15-18K rather than every 24K.

After it failed, I chose to not replace parts, but to rebuild the whole thing. This means I kept the housing and the gears, and replaced everything else, including the roller bearings on the mount to the swingarm. Total parts cost was about $650.

After tightening the case all the way, I spun the output, and it was VERY tight. Clearly shimmed too tight. Took it back apart and put a thinner shim in. This time, after reassembly, it spun very nicely. Preload is adequate to capture the bearing, but insufficient to deform it. Bike now has 101K on it. Oil was just changed (third time...first time after 600 miles, second time 1000 miles after that, and third time when it was pulled all the way down for new clutch and all seals, and miscellaneous other things that we found while it was apart), and the oil that came out looked like new although it had roughly 10000 miles on it.

Going forward, I will change the oil when I change the rear tire. It only takes a few minutes, and does not cost much - and lets me check on this thing. If I find no evidence of wear after a couple of tires, I probably will call it cured and go back to a 24K schedule for oil change.

I frankly do not see the sense of merely replacing the big bearing that fails. There will have been pieces circulating through that rear end, grinding the other parts, for some considerable period of time before the failure was severe enough to be noticeable. This practically guarantees that the thing will fail again after a short time, and you'll be doing another repair.

I think mine was set up too tight, though not as brutally tight as some because it did last for quite awhile, and now it won't fail again. With all new parts, and a thoroughly cleaned housing, I'm confident there's nothing in there that will give way any time soon. If the "too tight" theory is right, then this rear end should last the life of the bike now.
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post #224 of 241 Old Sep 11th, 2015, 3:39 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

The final drive on my 02 LT failed last October, about 200 miles from home. The bike had 89K on it. I am 3rd owner and have had it since 24.8K. At about 50K (second time I changed the final drive oil), I did not like what I took out, so after that I short-cycled the changes, changing about every 15-18K rather than every 24K.

After it failed, I chose to not replace parts, but to rebuild the whole thing. This means I kept the housing and the gears, and replaced everything else, including the roller bearings on the mount to the swingarm. Total parts cost was about $650.

After tightening the case all the way, I spun the output, and it was VERY tight. Clearly shimmed too tight. Took it back apart and put a thinner shim in. This time, after reassembly, it spun very nicely. Preload is adequate to capture the bearing, but insufficient to deform it. Bike now has 101K on it. Oil was just changed (third time...first time after 600 miles, second time 1000 miles after that, and third time when it was pulled all the way down for new clutch and all seals, and miscellaneous other things that we found while it was apart), and the oil that came out looked like new although it had roughly 10000 miles on it.

Going forward, I will change the oil when I change the rear tire. It only takes a few minutes, and does not cost much - and lets me check on this thing. If I find no evidence of wear after a couple of tires, I probably will call it cured and go back to a 24K schedule for oil change.

I frankly do not see the sense of merely replacing the big bearing that fails. There will have been pieces circulating through that rear end, grinding the other parts, for some considerable period of time before the failure was severe enough to be noticeable. This practically guarantees that the thing will fail again after a short time, and you'll be doing another repair.

I think mine was set up too tight, though not as brutally tight as some because it did last for quite awhile, and now it won't fail again. With all new parts, and a thoroughly cleaned housing, I'm confident there's nothing in there that will give way any time soon. If the "too tight" theory is right, then this rear end should last the life of the bike now.
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post #225 of 241 Old Oct 29th, 2015, 9:42 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

the guy I bought my bike from says he experienced a rear failure and had it rebuilt about 4 thousand miles ago, along with a clutch failure and had a weep hole drilled and the clutch redone. May I assume that this takes care of those issues on a used machine with 32k miles, at least for about a 2000 mile riding season next summer?
thanks
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post #226 of 241 Old Oct 30th, 2015, 7:08 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by rosmba View Post
the guy I bought my bike from says he experienced a rear failure and had it rebuilt about 4 thousand miles ago, along with a clutch failure and had a weep hole drilled and the clutch redone. May I assume that this takes care of those issues on a used machine with 32k miles, at least for about a 2000 mile riding season next summer?
thanks
rick

Hi and welcome Rick. Depends on who did the work. There are two weep holes to drill on the LT, one in the clutch housing and also one in the clutch slave cylinder. If both were drilled then you should get some advance notice of any issue with that service. If the clutch O-ring was replaced with the stock BMW part, then it may rear its ugly head at some point in her future. If it was replaced with a Viton O-ring, then it should be good for the life of the bike barring any other seal leaks.

The final drive shimming is pretty critical and requires proper measurement to do so. If the rebuilder simply replaced the crown bearing and put the same shims back in, then it also may rear its ugly head at some time in her future.

Having said that, I would ride the heck out of her knowing that those major day/trip stopping issues have already been dealt with and just keep an eye on your fluids and the stuff that collects on the magnets. Grey oily metal powder is OK but if you see any flakes on that final drive magnet, it should be looked at again.

Get on it and ride before the season is over ( depending where you live) and enjoy this wonderful bike.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #227 of 241 Old Oct 30th, 2015, 10:08 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
... Depends on who did the work...The final drive shimming is pretty critical and requires proper measurement to do so. If the rebuilder simply replaced the crown bearing and put the same shims back in, then it also may rear its ugly head at some time in her future...
I've heard of a FD failing 18K after a "rebuild" which was essentially a bearing replacement.
I've always assumed that a bearing replacement would probably last about as long as the first bearing lasted, all other things being equal. "All other things being equal" assumes that the replacement bearing was not damaged during install (which isn't all that hard to do.)

A quote from an earlier post: "After tightening the case all the way, I spun the output, and it was VERY tight. Clearly shimmed too tight. Took it back apart and put a thinner shim in. This time, after reassembly, it spun very nicely."

Whenever I read a post like this that suggests the preload bearing shim was adjusted by the "feel" of how hard it to turn the final drive output after assembly, I cringe. There is no evidence that feeling rotation resistance by hand has any value in assessing for proper preload shim thickness at the crownwheel bearing.

I rebuilt more that 50 final drives, and during the last half of those rebuilds, I was comparing the DMAN dial indicator method to the BMW Service Manual method. I found that I would get essentially the same results for shim thickness using both methods. Without exception all of the rebuilds I did of drives that had a "classic"crown wheel bearing failure, the replacement shim(s) thinner than the original shim(s). I posted many of those findings on this site over the years.
After reassembly of those drives with the new, thinner shims, I found that they would turn hard by hand, none of them spun easily. I suspect that any assembled final drive that spins easily is under shimmed.

In summary, that an assembled final drives is hard to turn by hand does not mean that it is over shimmed.

I hope that the original poster does not feel criticized by my comments, rather, I just hope that after all I have written about rebuilding final drives on this site, that folks don't start assuming that you can properly rebuild a final drive by feeling the resistant to rotation of the assembled drive.
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Last edited by CharlieVT; Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:10 pm.
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post #228 of 241 Old Oct 30th, 2015, 6:19 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Hi and welcome Rick. Depends on who did the work. There are two weep holes to drill on the LT, one in the clutch housing and also one in the clutch slave cylinder. If both were drilled then you should get some advance notice of any issue with that service. If the clutch O-ring was replaced with the stock BMW part, then it may rear its ugly head at some point in her future. If it was replaced with a Viton O-ring, then it should be good for the life of the bike barring any other seal leaks.

The final drive shimming is pretty critical and requires proper measurement to do so. If the rebuilder simply replaced the crown bearing and put the same shims back in, then it also may rear its ugly head at some time in her future.

Having said that, I would ride the heck out of her knowing that those major day/trip stopping issues have already been dealt with and just keep an eye on your fluids and the stuff that collects on the magnets. Grey oily metal powder is OK but if you see any flakes on that final drive magnet, it should be looked at again.

Get on it and ride before the season is over ( depending where you live) and enjoy this wonderful bike.
thanks for the welcome the info. I do hope it was done correctly. The guy that owned it said it went while he was on a trip t Tenn and he was able to hook up with a pro re-builder from near by that area and rent a lift at a local custom bike shop to get it fixed. He didn't give me much more than that, so it is a crap shoot I guess. hoped to get the title transferred and it to the local bike shop for inspection today. but work didn't allow. So I have asked for PTO next week. hope by the end of the following week I can have it on the street.
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post #229 of 241 Old Oct 30th, 2015, 7:49 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by rosmba View Post
thanks for the welcome the info. I do hope it was done correctly. The guy that owned it said it went while he was on a trip t Tenn and he was able to hook up with a pro re-builder from near by that area and rent a lift at a local custom bike shop to get it fixed. He didn't give me much more than that, so it is a crap shoot I guess. hoped to get the title transferred and it to the local bike shop for inspection today. but work didn't allow. So I have asked for PTO next week. hope by the end of the following week I can have it on the street.
Based on that story then it was I that rebuilt that one. If I remember correctly the guy was from somewhere in PA. I rode up and put my spare on his machine so he could ride it home. Then I sent his rebuilt unit to him to change out and he returned my spare.

You are good to go.

John
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post #230 of 241 Old Oct 31st, 2015, 3:11 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Based on that story then it was I that rebuilt that one. If I remember correctly the guy was from somewhere in PA. I rode up and put my spare on his machine so he could ride it home. Then I sent his rebuilt unit to him to change out and he returned my spare.

You are good to go.
that is exactly the story I got. great.. so glad to find out it was done right. small world. The guy is from Dover PA..
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post #231 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2016, 9:40 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Our final drive failed at 80,785 miles on the way to the outer banks of NC. We were lucky enough to find a small shop in Wallace, NC "Dirt City Cycles" where we left the bike until a buddy of mine could ship my spare drive to them. They are a small shop working multiple bike brands of bikes and ATV's. We picked up the bike a week later and rode it 4 hrs home with no problems.

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post #232 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2016, 10:34 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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The one critical element that separates this failure form the others you mention: The propensity to dump gear oil all over the rear tire when failure occurs.

Just for the sake of discussion, lets say that one is rounding a long, high speed right hand sweeper, just when the rear drive decides to puke oil all over the rear wheel and tire. While we have not heard of this happening, I think the probability is high that it will at some point. We've also seen at least one catch fire.

The failures of rear drives alone may not warrant NHTSA action, but the safety implications certainly should.

For the record, I wouldn't hesitate to take off on an LT (or any other BMW) for a long journey and I still prefer these bikes to others on the market. That said, I cannot, for the life of me, understand how this failure has eluded NHTSA scrutiny thus far. Personally, I think it is reflective of the general bias against motorcycles in the population at large - which certainly filters into the government.
I agree...the location of the failure pretty much guarantees you won't "see" it happening...might hear it, but my '03 LT makes so much gear/driveline noise, I might not hear it either. Several of the complaintants have stated the rear tire "locked up"...not good on a sweeper, either. Would be nice if BMW engineered a fix, not a patch. Had a 1984 GS1000GL shafty; never a drive problem and I put well over 100K on it. Maybe we could get the two "Axis Powers" to talk it over????
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post #233 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2016, 6:45 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

02 BMW K 1200 LT Final Drive Differential Gear & Shaft 29K mi.

Estimated delivery: Mon. Apr. 18


...INSURANCE!!!
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post #234 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2016, 6:56 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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02 BMW K 1200 LT Final Drive Differential Gear & Shaft 29K mi.

Estimated delivery: Mon. Apr. 18


...INSURANCE!!!
I did the same after I preemptively did my crown bearing on my 01. Bought a flebay FD and then took it all apart and inspected it. Pinion bearings looked good, no pinion needle bearing race creep, no spinning taper bearing or race and the wear pattern on the gear set looked acceptable. Put a new pinion seal in it and when I did the crown shim checking, it came out very close to the .1mm top of tolerance so I left it as it was and have it on the shelf if I need it or if I decide to just swap it out, I will do a new crown and shim accordingly. After all, I am not CarlieVT or Saddleman or Zeller who have done many of these. I have only touched two, both my own.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #235 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2016, 9:28 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Howdy folks!

Now it was my turn. A few days ago I heard a strange and unfamilar sound from the rear part of my LT. Started with a little svjis svisj sound, Then a tsjug tsjug, wich acellerated to a noicy kadang, kadang and a 2. degree burning on my fingertip when touching the final drive housing. The guy from the road rescue service told me that it was not the first time the company had to rescue stranded LT's with final drive failure, even German LT's on vacation trips to Norway they had to carry back home to Germany and Norwegian LT's from southern Europe back to Norway. My LT is a 2004 mod. with 30000 km on the speedometer, and I had a 20000 km service about six months ago so the oil level and everything else should be OK. I've been told from the guys at the "hospital" that the failure will cost me about $ 8.000,-, but have to wait for a week before I know for sure. I've been driving BMW's since 1976 and have never experienced this kind of failure. Is the Goldwing getting closer???

By the way: The 27. this month, my wife and I will arrive at O'Hare and after three days we'll start our Historic Route 66 trip on an Electra Glide to LA. Our first night stop will be at DAYS INN ST CHARLES (St. Louis)

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post #236 of 241 Old Apr 19th, 2016, 7:03 pm
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Question to those who have replaced there own pivot bearings

I have two FD's, one that came with my 2001 LT, and one that I bought locally for 50 bucks. I sent the extra one to Saddleman for rebuild because its status was unknown to me. It have one pivot bearing installed and one missing. Dave called and asked if I wanted him to put in 2 new bearings and I told him no, I will do that when it is back with me. When I removed the bearing I saw that it had been installed very poorly and had scraped and piled a bunch of material at the bottom of the bore. Well I am a machinist and I was able to repair it and then I installed the two bearings that came from my original FD. They looked new but when I removed them one of those two bores had been damaged. Have any of you seen examples of this happening in FDs you have repaired? For my part I have replaced or installed hundreds of sleeves and bearings but I've not seen damage like this in ages.
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post #237 of 241 Old Apr 19th, 2016, 7:38 pm
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Re: Question to those who have replaced there own pivot bearings

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I have two FD's, one that came with my 2001 LT, and one that I bought locally for 50 bucks. I sent the extra one to Saddleman for rebuild because its status was unknown to me. It have one pivot bearing installed and one missing. Dave called and asked if I wanted him to put in 2 new bearings and I told him no, I will do that when it is back with me. When I removed the bearing I saw that it had been installed very poorly and had scraped and piled a bunch of material at the bottom of the bore. Well I am a machinist and I was able to repair it and then I installed the two bearings that came from my original FD. They looked new but when I removed them one of those two bores had been damaged. Have any of you seen examples of this happening in FDs you have repaired? For my part I have replaced or installed hundreds of sleeves and bearings but I've not seen damage like this in ages.
Glad to see you able to post again. I just replaced my pivot bearings in my spare with a new pair from Fleabay $80 for the pair new in the bags. When I drove my old races out, mine looked good and had no trouble driving in the new ones. Do you have a picture of the damage?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #238 of 241 Old Apr 11th, 2017, 2:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Just rebuilt my Final Drive at 88k miles on my 2000 K1200LT . Was starting to get shiny metal flakes in the oil and the magnet covered with grey colored metal. Crown wheel bearing was starting to fail. It was over-shimmed by .150mm.( max spec of.1 plus .150 for total pre-load of .250mm) I also replaced the pivot bearings. Out of curiosity after checking with a dial indicator i also checked the clearance with a set of "L" shaped wire gauges that I have, measured within .0005" (yep, 5 ten-thousands) of the dial indicator.
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post #239 of 241 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 1:53 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Mine went out at 60,460 miles on an 01 LT. It probably didn't help that I weigh about 300 and pull a small cargo trailer on long trips.
I was returning from a trip to San Antonio, and made it to about 270 miles from home. I was feeling something through the pegs and pulled off the highway onto the frontage road to see if it was the road condition. While going slowly down the frontage road, it got worse, and when I stopped it started leaking the FD oil. I ended up getting it towed home.
I need to get this fixed, but due to low amount of post, cannot PM Saddleman. I would appreciate if I can be helped.
Thanks,
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post #240 of 241 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 2:13 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Mine went out at 60,460 miles on an 01 LT. It probably didn't help that I weigh about 300 and pull a small cargo trailer on long trips.
I was returning from a trip to San Antonio, and made it to about 270 miles from home. I was feeling something through the pegs and pulled off the highway onto the frontage road to see if it was the road condition. While going slowly down the frontage road, it got worse, and when I stopped it started leaking the FD oil. I ended up getting it towed home.
I need to get this fixed, but due to low amount of post, cannot PM Saddleman. I would appreciate if I can be helped.
Thanks,
Lets see if we can get Dave in touch with you. You can also open a test thread and add a bunch of posts to get over the limit.

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Call for help

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #241 of 241 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 4:49 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by ScottinIL View Post
Mine went out at 60,460 miles on an 01 LT. It probably didn't help that I weigh about 300 and pull a small cargo trailer on long trips.
I was returning from a trip to San Antonio, and made it to about 270 miles from home. I was feeling something through the pegs and pulled off the highway onto the frontage road to see if it was the road condition. While going slowly down the frontage road, it got worse, and when I stopped it started leaking the FD oil. I ended up getting it towed home.
I need to get this fixed, but due to low amount of post, cannot PM Saddleman. I would appreciate if I can be helped.
Thanks,
I sent you a PM hopefully you can at least receive a PM.
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