Final Drive Failure registry - Page 3 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #101 of 241 Old Aug 31st, 2009, 8:00 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
I think the 3 to 4% failure rate has been pretty well established as accurate. I am as embarrassed for BMW as I am upset with the company for not taking steps to correct the problem.

Whether or not you agree, you are likely aware that BMW had a smaller percentage of bikes in the IBR this year than in the past; that at one FD has already failed and that 4 (?) failed in the most recent past IBR. You may also know that at least a couple BMW riders in the 2009 IBR are carrying spare FD units.



None of the above should be interpreted to indicate that I do not like BMWs...
I try to keep shut up with too much opinion about this final drive crap, and ya know I like my bike.

But it is the attitude of others that think there is no problem, the moco ignores it and/or they (the moco and people with those type reponse)

Maybe they just don't care, and more so the attitude like this gent shows here with him laughing at the owners that have taken the time to fill out a survey, one he thinks may be (how could I say this nicely) heck I can't so I'll just put in his comment

"Great credibility when the survey is done by BMW owners with FD problems"

has he said this because he thinks they are lieing?

here is another for him to laugh at then http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/index.html


anyhow, it is probably because it has not happened to them , or they don't travel out in the middle of no where land so they don;t care, whatever the reason, I just have to laugh when I hear them......

ya know what is the real bad thing about all this, there are dealers losing long time good customers that have all their work done at the shop because of one silly assed problem, final drive failures, there lies the real problem, people that have put out all their money, setup a shop because they love it, and now they have a company that will not fix a real issue over several completely different models

my dealer has our loyalty. But BMW MoCo better do something! and do it soon!

Tom

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post #102 of 241 Old Aug 31st, 2009, 10:06 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Great credibility when the survey is done by BMW owners with FD problems....

There are so many BMW's out there on the road that have NEVER had any type of FD problem that it makes one laugh at this 4% B.S......None of you and that includes you intellectual giants can produce documents from any firm to validate your 4%..... .......


Really,,, If you don't like the bike get one you do like and spend your time on a forum that supports your views.... But your continually bad mouthing different little parts for years at a time with "NO" backup evidence at all... This board is for mainly positive thoughts and positive stories.... All this mainly made up B.S. gets old after a few years................. Go ride
Sorry my friend, you're simply wrong.

We have valid and verifiable reason to use that 4% number. We were told in 2002 that approximately 4% of LTs sold to that point had been subject to a warranty repair on the FD. Told by a BMWNA representative face-to-face. Does that mean 4% of all FDs on all BMWs fail? No. But is it a reasonable measure of at least early-LT FD failures? Damn right it is.

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post #103 of 241 Old Aug 31st, 2009, 2:40 pm
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Cool Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I am afraid you are wrong in stating that this forum is for just posting the positive aspects of LT ownership! There is nothing wrong with folks posting their problems with the LT on this Forum. In fact, it is through reading of other folks problems that we are often able to prevent a recurrence of that problem with our own Bike!

And your argument that the 4% is an incorrect figure cannot be proven any more than that claim can be proven. Certainly there are many who do not bother posting that their Final Drive has not yet failed, but where is the news in that? How many LT owners have possibly experienced a Final Drive failure and not posted it here? No way of knowing that either.

The bottom line is that it serves no purpose to flame folks for posting their problems with the LT and their dis-satisfaction with BMW's lack of acknowledgement on this very real problem. For your info I have had two Final Drive failures and think they suck, but still love the LT!

From a former Marine, Semper Fi!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Great credibility when the survey is done by BMW owners with FD problems....

There are so many BMW's out there on the road that have NEVER had any type of FD problem that it makes one laugh at this 4% B.S......None of you and that includes you intellectual giants can produce documents from any firm to validate your 4%..... .......


Really,,, If you don't like the bike get one you do like and spend your time on a forum that supports your views.... But your continually bad mouthing different little parts for years at a time with "NO" backup evidence at all... This board is for mainly positive thoughts and positive stories.... All this mainly made up B.S. gets old after a few years................. Go ride

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post #104 of 241 Old Feb 19th, 2010, 9:42 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

So whats the cost to repair a 2001 k1200lt?
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post #105 of 241 Old Feb 20th, 2010, 8:06 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by longshadow
So whats the cost to repair a 2001 k1200lt?

here it is 8 years after I purchase my K1200Lt new already, I miss that bike, should had \never sold it, even wiht it's 154k miles on it and one final drive, then even dumber yet, was the the fact I had the chance to buy it back for half of what I sold it for with like 157k miles on it, and did not buyh it back!!!!

oh, you asked how much for a final drive?

buy used........... or call BMW Atlanta for a price on new. , or rubber chicken racing garage and have Tom Cutter rebuild it (really, he is really good with them)

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post #106 of 241 Old Feb 20th, 2010, 3:03 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Need help in change crown wheel bearing. Kind anybody have me some advice?
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post #107 of 241 Old Feb 20th, 2010, 3:49 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by longshadow
Need help in change crown wheel bearing. Kind anybody have me some advice?
From Curtis (CharlieVT)

You can't purchase it.
Amended: there is not yet a "latest video". There is an update in the works, not telling when it will be completed. The original and only one is on this server.

You can probably get it here on this site if the link still works:
Try this:
Final Drive
or this
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

There are a few things I would change or add to in the video. The first of which is that is it not necessary to heat the cover to remove it from the drive housing.

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post #108 of 241 Old Apr 8th, 2010, 6:44 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I still Love my LT .But I just lost #3.This time I have to replace the FD complete.Both bearings failed the one on the shaft fell off after it spun and ruined the shaft. Than the stars I had a extra FD. They want $1700 for complete FD. Jim
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post #109 of 241 Old Apr 9th, 2010, 3:27 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jriverside
I still Love my LT .But I just lost #3.This time I have to replace the FD complete.Both bearings failed the one on the shaft fell off after it spun and ruined the shaft. Than the stars I had a extra FD. They want $1700 for complete FD. Jim

soon,people will be parting out what is left of the lt after a final drive fail's as many will not be willing to out 1700 in a older mc (think 99's value now)

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post #110 of 241 Old Apr 10th, 2010, 5:43 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Hi

I just joined the club last night, 2 miles from home...sure sounded like a bearing failure. This morning, with it up on the center stand, spun rear wheel, and it didn't sound as smooth as it did 1500 miles ago. FD oil was clean then. Then went to drain oil to take a peek, and see the drips rolling down the side of the tire. Oil very dark, with shiny talcum-powder stuck to the drain plug magnet. 91,500 miles on a 2001 LT.

Downloaded CharlieVT's video, gonna pop some popcorn tonight and watch to see if I'd feel comfortable enough doing the job, or should I find someone to it for me.

Is there a "I'm a 4%er" tee shirt?

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post #111 of 241 Old May 22nd, 2010, 9:07 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

This is now my third brand-new BMW that has had a rear drive failure. Methinks the Kool-aid is beginning to taste a little funny . . ."


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post #112 of 241 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 9:29 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

lost my final drive over the weekend. thankfully only about 5 miles from home and able to limp back. Made a hell of a noise and then a grinding sound and vibration that was what I will call rotational. It came and went constantly. pulled it in the garage and oil is on the sidewall.

2001 mfg 06/00 about 100 miles short of 80K. bought the bike with 70k, changed oil when bought and again at 76k with no signs of metal on the plug. not sure of any previous history.

any ideas of a rebuild cost? probably want to send it to one of the guys that are doing the rebuilds and not a dealer.

Thanks
Al

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post #113 of 241 Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 5:47 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTEC
lost my final drive over the weekend. thankfully only about 5 miles from home and able to limp back. Made a hell of a noise and then a grinding sound and vibration that was what I will call rotational. It came and went constantly. pulled it in the garage and oil is on the sidewall.

2001 mfg 06/00 about 100 miles short of 80K. bought the bike with 70k, changed oil when bought and again at 76k with no signs of metal on the plug. not sure of any previous history.

any ideas of a rebuild cost? probably want to send it to one of the guys that are doing the rebuilds and not a dealer.

Thanks
Al
Hi Al,
sorry to hear of your troubles.
PM sent.
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post #114 of 241 Old Jul 31st, 2010, 4:27 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

After having the FD from my 1999 rebuilt for the 3rd time by the dealer in 105k km (65k miles) I find that the oil is still contaminated with grit on the magnet after dumping it twice in the first 1000 km after the rebuild.
I will get the dealer to redo the job but wonder if I would not be better off with a swap unit or with some help from you out there.
I looked at Charlie's video and am confident enough to do that kind of job and have access to the tools to do it. Maybe I should just ask the dealer to give me the parts and let me do the work, or even better show them how its done by looking at his video.
In any event he will have to explain to me how he adjusts the preload.
Any suggestions would be appreciated

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post #115 of 241 Old Sep 21st, 2010, 2:14 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Sorry to bug you gentlemen, but I have recently purchased a 05 r1200st. 23k miles. Just noticed drivetrain slop. Put on center stand. Loads of freeplay/backlash. Way too premature wear. This is the only component I did not do a lot of research on, for I took for granted the almighty bmw empire would have this utmostly crucial component developed to be problem free by now. Please advise as to any sites or reply with phone numbers to which I can call to see if bmw will do anything about this. This component should be a 80k-100k component without repair.
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post #116 of 241 Old Sep 27th, 2010, 11:52 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Lost my final drive comming down Afton Mountain on 64 East a few weeks ago. The bike, 2008 LT has 14,000 miles. At first thought I had hit something or had a flat rear. After checking the bike over on the side of the road rode a few more miles to the nearest exit. Had a giriding noise in the rear. Called in a few favors and got bike loaded in truck and home. Dealer replaced under warranty with no charge and in a timely manner, now has an additional 2 year warranty. Biggest head ache was loading and unloading bike from tall pick up.

However I do think 14,000 miles was an early failure for a manufacture know for quality and percision.
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post #117 of 241 Old Sep 28th, 2010, 9:41 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

My 02 with almost 55k is still going strong (fingers crossed).

my FD failed on my Yamaha with like 40k miles on it. FD failures happen, I don't think BMW FD's are worse than any other brand, they just get ridden for much longer so it is more visible.

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post #118 of 241 Old Oct 1st, 2010, 1:43 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveno
My 02 with almost 55k is still going strong (fingers crossed).

my FD failed on my Yamaha with like 40k miles on it. FD failures happen, I don't think BMW FD's are worse than any other brand, they just get ridden for much longer so it is more visible.
The evidence begs to defer... Your opinion has no basis in fact. The 3-4% number is well documented in this forum and elsewhere. In this thread alone, there are posts listing multiple failures on a single bike. in the previous IBR, ONLY BMWs had FD failures. When a manufacturer has a problem that ischronic and doesn't take care of it - that is a problem. When a loyal customer base keeps after them on it - that helps to get it resolved. An owner that turns a blind eye doesn't help anyone.

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post #119 of 241 Old Oct 1st, 2010, 6:57 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
The evidence begs to defer... Your opinion has no basis in fact. The 3-4% number is well documented in this forum and elsewhere. In this thread alone, there are posts listing multiple failures on a single bike. in the previous IBR, ONLY BMWs had FD failures. When a manufacturer has a problem that ischronic and doesn't take care of it - that is a problem. When a loyal customer base keeps after them on it - that helps to get it resolved. An owner that turns a blind eye doesn't help anyone.
"Oft repeated" is not he same as "well documented." I have not seen any credible documentation that 4% is the real failure rate. I remember reading some time ago where the number supposedly came from, but I don't recall even that necessarily being a definitive source.

I personally suspect that BMW has a higher failure rate than most other manufacturers, but I have seen no data that really supports that suspicion. And having had two FD failures on my previous bike (a Kawasaki Voyager XII) in 46,000 miles, I can't yet say my BMW is better or worse than the Kawasaki. I have 22K on my BMW. My Voyager had 36K or so when it first failed. The dealer repaired the FD and it lasted less than 10K miles before failing again. At that point, I no longer had confidence in the bike so I bought an FD from a salvage yard and had the dealership replace the failed FD. I then sold the bike shortly after that ... and bought an LT not knowing the FD issue! Oh well, such is life...

Unless someone can say how many LTs are out there, how many miles each has traveled and how many FD failures have occurred and at what mileages, then there is no way at all to assign any defensible failure statistics.

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post #120 of 241 Old Oct 3rd, 2010, 1:23 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
"Oft repeated" is not he same as "well documented." I have not seen any credible documentation that 4% is the real failure rate. I remember reading some time ago where the number supposedly came from, but I don't recall even that necessarily being a definitive source.

I personally suspect that BMW has a higher failure rate than most other manufacturers, but I have seen no data that really supports that suspicion. And having had two FD failures on my previous bike (a Kawasaki Voyager XII) in 46,000 miles, I can't yet say my BMW is better or worse than the Kawasaki. I have 22K on my BMW. My Voyager had 36K or so when it first failed. The dealer repaired the FD and it lasted less than 10K miles before failing again. At that point, I no longer had confidence in the bike so I bought an FD from a salvage yard and had the dealership replace the failed FD. I then sold the bike shortly after that ... and bought an LT not knowing the FD issue! Oh well, such is life...

Unless someone can say how many LTs are out there, how many miles each has traveled and how many FD failures have occurred and at what mileages, then there is no way at all to assign any defensible failure statistics.
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post #121 of 241 Old Oct 3rd, 2010, 1:32 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
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Speak no evil...
aka "I have no data either."

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post #122 of 241 Old Oct 3rd, 2010, 8:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
aka "I have no data either."
from the epilog of the 2007 IBR:

The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel

A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem.

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post #123 of 241 Old Oct 3rd, 2010, 8:34 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
from the epilog of the 2007 IBR:

The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel

A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem.
That isn't data from which one can determine the general failure rate of BMW FDs. Yes, they had a poor showing in 2007 regarding FD failures, but my recollection is that the 2009 IBR was dramatically different in this regard with no failures or maybe one. You can't extrapolate the general case from one small sample such as this.

I'd still love to see BMW fess up and admit what the actual failure rate is as they have the data as to how many LTs they have sold and how many replacement FDs they have sold or sold rebuild parts for. However, we all know that they aren't talking.

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post #124 of 241 Old Oct 3rd, 2010, 10:58 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I'd still love to see BMW fess up and admit what the actual failure rate is as they have the data as to how many LTs they have sold and how many replacement FDs they have sold or sold rebuild parts for. However, we all know that they aren't talking.
Now we're on the same page.

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post #125 of 241 Old Oct 11th, 2010, 6:44 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Not sure if I am experiencing the same thing on my 2002 LT. Just over 11 k miles, and when I lean into a turn, I am hearing a light scraping sound, and feeling a slight vibration. It feels like wheel bearings to me. It doesn't matter if I am turning left or right, just that I am turning. It does seem to be worse if I am carrying a lot of speed. Any clues? No guys, I am NOT just scraping the footpegs...
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post #126 of 241 Old Oct 11th, 2010, 6:49 pm
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Cool Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Could be the infamous Metzler tire howl! You get this on the 880's after they have worn down a little, and it is only in the curves that you get it.

John

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post #127 of 241 Old Oct 11th, 2010, 7:23 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Thanks. I was considering tires as a possible cause; and they are Metzlers....
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post #128 of 241 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 9:39 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

My turn, K12LT, Tuscan Green, 2001 and 31K. Crown wheel bearing and seals will be replaced. I will fill out the registry. Can anybody tell me if this Final drive failures are shared with other beemers models? like the GS or the R12? thanks in advance / LEO

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post #129 of 241 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 11:02 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by achuras
My turn, K12LT, Tuscan Green, 2001 and 31K. Crown wheel bearing and seals will be replaced. I will fill out the registry. Can anybody tell me if this Final drive failures are shared with other beemers models? like the GS or the R12? thanks in advance / LEO
Yes, both the GS and R1200RT bikes have had this kind of failure. I've done drives for both these model bikes.
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post #130 of 241 Old Dec 8th, 2010, 9:29 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalker
See, that is the problem with you guys. You are riding a jinxed bike. Should have gotten something else - like a 'GS.

Oh... wait... what's that crap?


I'll never learn.
My 08' RT did that last May. My 00'RT did it in 08'. Even with a different design I managed to have 2 BP oil spills. So having owned a total of 7 BMW's (all 85'-04' and one "new design")my rate seems high. 35% is unacceptable!


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BMW'S ARE THE WORST BIKE IN THE WORLD, CEPT' WHEN YOU COMPARE THEM TO EVERYTHING ELSE!

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post #131 of 241 Old Dec 23rd, 2010, 11:46 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I'm now a 4 percenter.

However I don't want to take mine to failure, but my 2005 K1200LT w 16,000 miles & only 2000 miles since last cleaned, is showing a lot of interesting fuzz on the drain plug. Time for one of CharlieVT's preemptive rebuilds.............[IMG][/IMG]
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post #132 of 241 Old Feb 18th, 2011, 7:19 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I have had 3 FD failures to date:
First was at 44900 KM (27700 miles) in 2005. Made noise on the way home, checked the oil and towed it to the Sherbrooke dealer and got it repaired. Dealer also forgot the power on the bike, drained the battery partially and welded the starter when he tried to start it, so I was forced to replace the starter with the new low power cutoff unit. After that first time, I started changing out the FD oil every year hoping to catch the problem before it happened again but to no avail it seems as all yearly flushes were clean.
Second was at 73750km (45500 miles) in 2007. This time it happened 60 miles into a scheduled provincial tour with one of my brothers. Started hearing some noise and checked the oil at an auto parts store and found the telltale metal. We turned back and I drove the unit 60 miles to the Quebec city BMW dealer, I borrowed my other brothers's road star to finish the trip and was set up for long term teasing when they took a picture of me and the missus on that bike!
Last summer it happened again on the way back from the Maritimes (105668 km, 65000 miles). Rode it 60 miles again to the dealer who told me the noise was from worn brake pads. Rode it home (120 miles) but the noise kept getting louder and I found metal when I checked the oil so I brought it back again to the dealer on its power, and had to get it towed for the final 5 miles as I noticed I had oil leaking when I stopped at the first light in Quebec City. That last ride was certainly a bad idea but I was getting pissed off at the bike.
Dealer changed the main bearing again, as per the 2 previous times, and put in a new seal for the first time. I checked the oil as soon as I got home. Minor contamination, so I checked it again 2 weeks later (2000 miles) and found additional contamination. Changed the oil again, brought it to the dealer who flushed it, took it out for a ride and told me everything was ok.
So now I want to witness the rebuild myself to make myself comfortable with the FD again. I am off to see Curtis next week!

1999 K1200LT HL Basalt Grey/ Fleximum Sidecar
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post #133 of 241 Old Mar 5th, 2011, 2:38 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Had my first FD failure.
2000lt
24400miles
Glad to have extended warranty.
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post #134 of 241 Old Mar 15th, 2011, 4:02 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonne
Had my first FD failure.
2000lt
24400miles
Glad to have extended warranty.
Turned out to be the front splines on the driveshaft and not the FD.
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post #135 of 241 Old Jun 30th, 2011, 9:52 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

My wife and I were riding out to the west coast when i experienced a final drive failure we were only 4 hours out when this occured and had to have the bike towed 240 km to the nearest BMW dealership. Now they are informing us that it will cost $2500 for a new final drive and that it has to come from Germany??? I have a 2001 K1200LT which i bought used from a local bmw dealer it only had 33,000km on it when i bought it and i haven't even put 20,000 km on it yet. Since day one the ABS light was staying on and the dealership assured me that it wasn't an issue but now I am wondering if this might be related? I am not about to pay $2500 for a new final drive plus
the labor costs to install it so I am going to take my trailer and pick it up. If anyone can tell me where I might be able to get a final drive at a more reasonable price I would appreciate it.
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post #136 of 241 Old Jul 1st, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

If it was just the large bearing and no other damage ( caught early). A rebuild is fairly cheap $80 US for the bearing and $30 for the seal.

John
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post #137 of 241 Old Jul 3rd, 2011, 8:27 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

i found my spare on ebay around 300$ luckley when it showed up seems to be in good condition. gonna get it rebuilt over the winter. be carefull to get the right one some years have abs sensor. might be better to remove your,s and send it to charlie. thats what i am gonna do over the winter
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post #138 of 241 Old Jul 25th, 2011, 3:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Well, my SECOND final drive failed after the FIRST one was replaced by my local, friendly dealer less than 6,000 miles ago. The first time I was left stranded, alone, in the Finger Lakes district of NY. This second one occurred at about mile 2,500 of a 2,600 mile trip to the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec with my wife and four friends. What a bitch that would have been for all of our vacations if the damn thing let go in Perce! About the only good part of all this is that the dealer is doing the repair under warranty. Thanks. So now I'm confronted with the concern about what to take on my next big ride, knowing that the final drive is likely to go at any time. Am I supposed to trade it in on the new GTL? I don't think so. Why would I reward BMW with a big sale like that after this crappy design experience?

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post #139 of 241 Old Jul 25th, 2011, 8:27 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Not a crappy design, just bad assembly at the factory. All the rebuilds done by board members have shown the drives are over shimmed and too much preload causes the failures.

John
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post #140 of 241 Old Jul 25th, 2011, 9:46 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Not a crappy design, just bad assembly at the factory. All the rebuilds done by board members have shown the drives are over shimmed and too much preload causes the failures.
Well, I have to disagree to an extent. Yes, one can argue that the design is fine and it is just an assembly issue, however, as an engineer who spent a good part of my career designing components and systems, I believe that a truly good design is very robust to the assembly processes. The BMW design is simply not robust. Any significant variation from the "proper" assembly technique appears to greatly increase the changes of failure.

The automobile industry has largely eliminated such problems with things such as "crush sleeves" which use fairly consistent material propers to properly preload parts with tolerance variance without the need for "perfect" assembly technique. I see no fundamental reason why a similar design couldn't have worked fine on the BMW FD.

So, I have to agree that the BMW FD is a poor design as it is not robust to the assembly process.

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post #141 of 241 Old Aug 6th, 2011, 3:42 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Can I post FAILURES! Not one but multiple? I'm starting to think the final drive is like a set of tires that needs to be replaced every 10K.
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post #142 of 241 Old Aug 6th, 2011, 5:30 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I can't post my second failure because the registry recognizes that I posted the first one!
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post #143 of 241 Old Aug 6th, 2011, 7:27 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomandmelanie
I can't post my second failure because the registry recognizes that I posted the first one!
Can't you edit your original post and add in the second failure?

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post #144 of 241 Old Sep 26th, 2011, 9:15 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Just watched the video of the crown gear bearing replacement. Was very interesting and I would agree that no point in heating for removal of crown gear bearing (as complete piece is raised in temp causing even heat expansion resulting in same clearances between pieces as if it was cold)

I must also add that I have never had a rear drive on BMW apart BUT did build Class 8 diffs and trannies for enough years to get it right.

To remove bearing , I would use a thin cut disk to cut outer race, then remove balls/retainer. Then heat one spot on inner race with a torch to red/ use ball peen hammer to flatten/elongate race and lift off. This whole procedure would not take much more than 5min.

I would also add , that a ball bearing is not designed to have any sideload. In my mind having a preload of .005 in would do well with a long life span of the ball bearing. The preload is necessary for the sake of the tapered roller on the other side. They should have designed this drive with a tapered roller on both sides and with proper preload would last a long long time. I would at the very least never exceed the min spec BMW gives of .020 and go as far to say as this would be max and .005 min.

I would also add , that it is imperitive to make sure there are no burs or ridges under the shim seat area which will lead to a improper shim thickness measurement for reassembly

Just my observations from at one time running a powertrain rebuild shop in partnership with my brother.

After seeing this video, I would not hesitate to tackle this in my garage.

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post #145 of 241 Old Sep 27th, 2011, 7:11 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJoe
To remove bearing , I would use a thin cut disk to cut outer race, then remove balls/retainer. Then heat one spot on inner race with a torch to red/ use ball peen hammer to flatten/elongate race and lift off. This whole procedure would not take much more than 5min.
not sure how tight that inner race is on there, but you should not need to glow it red, just drill a hole in race, then use a sharp chisel to split it, they pop right off like that, we use that trick on many press on races to keep from harming the integrity of the fitting part, be it spindles, bearing stems, axles, shafts, whatever....

Quote:
I would also add , that a ball bearing is not designed to have any sideload. In my mind having a preload of .005 in would do well with a long life span of the ball bearing. The preload is necessary for the sake of the tapered roller on the other side

They should have designed this drive with a tapered roller on both sides and with proper preload would last a long long time.
I said that some time ago (ok years ago now) your right, but that said, this drive should had still held up much longer than they were know to do

Tom

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post #146 of 241 Old Oct 23rd, 2011, 6:50 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJoe
I would also add , that a ball bearing is not designed to have any sideload. In my mind having a preload of .005 in would do well with a long life span of the ball bearing. .
Many ball bearing can take axial loads. It depends on the type of ball bearing and whether they are designed to take axial load. In this case they are designed to take axial load. The 61917/C3 is a "single row deep groove” type of bearing . From the SKF web site: "Single row deep groove ball bearings are particularly versatile. They are simple in design, non-separable, suitable for high and even very high speeds and are robust in operation, requiring little maintenance. Deep raceway grooves and the close conformity between the raceway grooves and the balls enable deep groove ball bearings to accommodate axial loads in both directions, in addition to radial loads, even at high speeds.
Single row deep groove ball bearings are the most widely used bearing type. Consequently, they are available from SKF in many executions and sizes”

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post #147 of 241 Old Oct 31st, 2011, 12:06 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I think it would be interesting to know how many FD failures we have on this Forum. There are so many LT riders here but not everyone has a problem with this. Like me I have almost 80K km on the clock and no problem. I hear here in Germany a lot of different stories. Some have a problem on low Kilomerters and some others run more then 100k km on the bike and they havent.
Maybe we could open a poll where we fill in miles and problem or not.
Would be easy to figure out the percentage of failures to the total of bikes.
If it is from interest.
Is someone here to start this I'm my self are not able to do this I'm not so deep in to this Forum.

Manfred
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post #148 of 241 Old Oct 31st, 2011, 4:10 pm
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Unhappy Re: Final Drive Failure registry

So... I posted a while back about a grinding sound/vibration that I was feeling as I leaned into turns. The Dealer performed a 12k service on my '02 K 1200 with about 11 k miles. Got some new tires in the process. The new tires made a world of difference, and I was leaning into turns the way the bike was meant to be, with no grinding or vibration. By the way, the dealer said nothing about any gear oil change in the final drive, and I checked the ticket, they didn't change it. I am now at about 13k miles, and after riding 2 up ( i am usually solo) for about 350 miles one day, I noticed oil splatter all over the rear wheel. I checked for leaks everywhere I could see, thinking it might be a brake line leak, but it looked like it was seeping out of the fill plug for the final drive. I checked the wheel for shimmy, and play, but felt nothing. I cleaned up the wheel and let it sit for a few days. I saw no further leakage. I have taken the bike on a few 200 mile jaunts to let it heat up, and leak if it will, but it hasn't leaked since. Of course, I don't want to get caught out on the road with a bad FD, so I am going to take it in to the BMW shop, and I was wondering if y'all had any advice about which one in the Dallas/Ft Worth area, or maybe an independent shop? I am hoping it might just be the seal, and I will probably do the bearings as well, but I have read the stories of others where their rebuilt FD gave out after another 3-6 k. I don't know if I can trust my dealer?
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post #149 of 241 Old Dec 30th, 2011, 1:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

If one dreams that BMW will support the final drive problems on the LT, it is only a dream. Reality is that will not happen. I have 120,000+ miles on my 2000LT. At 84,000 the noise and metal on the drain plug indicated its time had come. The local dealer at the time, Miller BMW, did the repair, replacing one bearing.
The Miller, now out of business, fix lasted 30,000 miles before the drain plug became a fuzzy one. I have been fortunate to find a local, long time BMW technician that understands how to repair the final drive. He has a 100% success rate with his repairs with no following failures. His name is Wayne Conn, cycledoctor@aol.com, and I highly recommend him for any BMW maintenance.
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post #150 of 241 Old Jan 3rd, 2012, 1:43 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by mreuter
I think it would be interesting to know how many FD failures we have on this Forum. There are so many LT riders here but not everyone has a problem with this. Like me I have almost 80K km on the clock and no problem. I hear here in Germany a lot of different stories. Some have a problem on low Kilomerters and some others run more then 100k km on the bike and they havent.
Maybe we could open a poll where we fill in miles and problem or not.
Would be easy to figure out the percentage of failures to the total of bikes.
If it is from interest.
Is someone here to start this I'm my self are not able to do this I'm not so deep in to this Forum.

Manfred
If I understand your question under this thread, then I can only surmise you didn't read this thread from the beginning?
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