Final Drive Failure registry - Page 2 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #51 of 241 Old Oct 29th, 2008, 6:47 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaboots
I'm bettin there is no recall until a fatality or two can be traced to the FD failure....[reactive] is the way the Beauracratic wheel turns.
Damn near got the fatality Sept. 21 in Cherokee, AL when the rear wheel locked up on my 2000 LT @ 60 MPH with 112,000 miles on it. The casing was broken ahead of the U joint. Haven't taken it apart yet.
Wife broke her humorus, I had concussion, 5 ribs broken, rup spleen, skinned knee. ATGATT. Got air lifted to Huntsvile Trauma Center where they had a 3 for one deal-gal bladder, appendix and spleen taken out. After 10 days, www.Medjetassist.com flew us to Syracuse, where I spent another week in the hospital. Doing Huntsville now. Progressive ins. agent comes tomorrow. I expect it is a total. The rear wheel is cocked in relation to the bike. It is my spare bike as I was waiting for a rear disc for my 05 LT.

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post #52 of 241 Old Oct 29th, 2008, 6:57 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Man, I am so glad to see that you're typing this. A real jolt when I first read that you two had this happen. Been keepin' the candle lit for ya!!

It's gonna be interesting to see what the outcome is from your contacts with BMW Motorrad, and the area reps. Usually not a worry when it comes to Progressive; at least I hope not in your case.

Keep an update handy, Jim. I know lotsa folks are interested, as well as glad that you both survived. Sounds like some serious therapy all around!!!

Best Regards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Schuyler
Damn near got the fatality Sept. 21 in Cherokee, AL when the rear wheel locked up on my 2000 LT @ 60 MPH with 112,000 miles on it. The casing was broken ahead of the U joint. Haven't taken it apart yet.
Wife broke her humorus, I had concussion, 5 ribs broken, rup spleen, skinned knee. ATGATT. Got air lifted to Huntsvile Trauma Center where they had a 3 for one deal-gal bladder, appendix and spleen taken out. After 10 days, www.Medjetassist.com flew us to Syracuse, where I spent another week in the hospital. Doing Huntsville now. Progressive ins. agent comes tomorrow. I expect it is a total. The rear wheel is cocked in relation to the bike. It is my spare bike as I was waiting for a rear disc for my 05 LT.
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post #53 of 241 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 11:17 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

WOW!!! I just spent about 2 hours at a dealership looking at and crawling around the LT thinking that this could well be my next and last bike. After reading all the posts about the final drive and talking to the dealer about the cost of the scheduled maintenance I'm starting to think other wise.
I currently ride a '03 flhtci and have misgivings about handling in the twisties and oil leaks. Soon to be replaced with ??????????
To the poster who went down............ I hope the best for you both and glad to hear that you're doing ok, keep getting better and get back on. My Dad always made me get back on any horse I got throwed off of!
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post #54 of 241 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 6:38 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

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Originally Posted by TWO22
WOW!!! I just spent about 2 hours at a dealership looking at and crawling around the LT thinking that this could well be my next and last bike. After reading all the posts about the final drive and talking to the dealer about the cost of the scheduled maintenance I'm starting to think other wise.
I currently ride a '03 flhtci and have misgivings about handling in the twisties and oil leaks. Soon to be replaced with ??????????
To the poster who went down............ I hope the best for you both and glad to hear that you're doing ok, keep getting better and get back on. My Dad always made me get back on any horse I got throwed off of!
Fortunately, (I think anyway!) I bought my LT before I had read all of the horror stories. So far, at nearly 10K miles, I have no regrets. Compared to my Voyager XII and the Harley Ultra that I test rode, the LT is a world apart. It is a hoot to ride, either solo or two-up and the handling and braking is superb. The ABS and anti-dive geometry is simply magic and really inspires confidence during emergency braking.

You have to decide what is right for you, but if the failure rate really is in the 4% rate as some have suggested, that means you have a 96% chance of being fine. You make the call as to whether the advantages of the LT outweigh the risks of FD or slave cylinder failure. So far, for me, the balance is in favor of owning an LT.

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post #55 of 241 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 7:46 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWO22
I currently ride a '03 flhtci and have misgivings about handling in the twisties and oil leaks. Soon to be replaced with ??????????
Put a true trac on it or ride straight, they even make frame to swingarm bushings that cure the wobble issue hd FL's and dyna's have

do a google and you will even find a place in canada that I forget the namje of that makes a kit for them

at least if you do decide to sell the hd, then you know you have done something good and possibly help the next owner from being hurt on it.
Tom

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post #56 of 241 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 7:47 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
You have to decide what is right for you, but if the failure rate really is in the 4% rate as some have suggested, that means you have a 96% chance of being fine. You make the call as to whether the advantages of the LT outweigh the risks of FD or slave cylinder failure. So far, for me, the balance is in favor of owning an LT.

I had over 100k on my last final drive no problems,

the new style seem to be far worse at failing, andthat style isnot on the K1200LT - yet anyhow.....

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post #57 of 241 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:00 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Do you do any of your own upkeep? The cost the dealer quoted for a 12000 check up was over $1000.00!!!!!! I want to ride it not save up for upkeep!
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post #58 of 241 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 1:32 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWO22
Do you do any of your own upkeep? The cost the dealer quoted for a 12000 check up was over $1000.00!!!!!! I want to ride it not save up for upkeep!
Many folks here do their own basic maintenance. And a few do much more than that. There are a few good service manuals available, as well as some DVDs. And of course, after nearly a decade of LTs we can probably answer just about any question here.

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post #59 of 241 Old Nov 17th, 2008, 7:40 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=StLHeadake]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc_puckett

There is no 4.0% rule for serious injury and/or life threatening mechanical or electrical failures.

The new final drives in the latest BMW motorcycles are failing at an unacceptable rate also. This is simply unbelievable. If there is ever a next generation LT based on a higher torque, lower horsepower version of the K1200GT engine, LT FD failures might resume once again.

Jim mine failed last Wednesday on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel at Mile Marker 9. I managed to limp it back to one of the oasis to get help. It was replaced with a BRAND NEW Final Drive, and now with 900 miles on it, I can already feel a vibration in the rear. That failure was number 2. The LT only had about 12K on a 'new' bearing.

I am POSITIVE that it will fail AGAIN! This really bothers me! I love this bike, really. If that bearing would have failed a day earlier, we were 400 miles from a dealer! Hell we were in the mountains of West VA. We were 30 minutes from ANYONE!! That would have SUCKED!!
It boggles my mind as to why this isn't being investigated....

This sums up my thinking on the subject. There is no proper follow up on the final drive subject and there is no 4.0% rule on injury. BMW is criminal in business climatic behavior by not addressing a common problem with this Bike and unfortunately a costly problem with expired warranty. My hope is they fix it with a newer LT model because I would be an idiot to jeopordize that much of a $$ investment again. Honda Goldwing owners must laugh as they smoke us, their bikes are bullet proof. Our LT bikes handle nicely, but talk to anyone who pays for a final drive out of pocket and reserve judgement. My hope is that BMW will get this right!


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post #60 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 12:45 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=stapleford]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLHeadake


This sums up my thinking on the subject. There is no proper follow up on the final drive subject and there is no 4.0% rule on injury. BMW is criminal in business climatic behavior by not addressing a common problem with this Bike and unfortunately a costly problem with expired warranty. My hope is they fix it with a newer LT model because I would be an idiot to jeopordize that much of a $$ investment again. Honda Goldwing owners must laugh as they smoke us, their bikes are bullet proof. Our LT bikes handle nicely, but talk to anyone who pays for a final drive out of pocket and reserve judgement. My hope is that BMW will get this right!
Main reason I didn't replace my LT with another BMW. If they fix it in the future, I'll think about it.

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post #61 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 1:51 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=davemoore]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stapleford

Main reason I didn't replace my LT with another BMW. If they fix it in the future, I'll think about it.
I'm certainly not defending BMW with respect to the fragile final drives but Honda is having some of the same problems, though not at as high a rate. Maybe H-D has a better idea (belts).
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post #62 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 2:00 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=ben1364]
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemoore

I'm certainly not defending BMW with respect to the fragile final drives but Honda is having some of the same problems, though not at as high a rate. Maybe H-D has a better idea (belts).
I went to bmw becuase of HD, and one of the reasons was the belt, you would be surprised how easy it is to loose a belt, end result is, your still stranded

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post #63 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 2:28 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=ben1364]
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemoore

I'm certainly not defending BMW with respect to the fragile final drives but Honda is having some of the same problems, though not at as high a rate. Maybe H-D has a better idea (belts).
Doesn't the GL have a double swingarm?

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post #64 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 2:31 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=stapleford]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLHeadake
but talk to anyone who pays for a final drive out of pocket and reserve judgement. My hope is that BMW will get this right!
Well I paid for a final drive bearing and seal replacement (done by the BMW dealer) on my 2002 LT,
it was $400. in my opinion that's cheap compared to what (the dealer) will get for other "services"
I'm on my second LT now, four years, almost 80.000 miles and I have not had any other problems or spent any other money except for farkles, tires, brakes and oil changes (I do all my own)
This bike may not be "perfect" but I think BMW did "get it right"
the LT is a damn good bike.


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post #65 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 3:40 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=Tallyho]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Doesn't the GL have a double swingarm?
The 1800s (2001-2009) have a single sided swingarm.
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post #66 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 3:59 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=SilverBuffalo]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stapleford
Well I paid for a final drive bearing and seal replacement (done by the BMW dealer) on my 2002 LT,
it was $400. in my opinion that's cheap compared to what (the dealer) will get for other "services"
I'm on my second LT now, four years, almost 80.000 miles and I have not had any other problems or spent any other money except for farkles, tires, brakes and oil changes (I do all my own)
This bike may not be "perfect" but I think BMW did "get it right"
the LT is a damn good bike.
Agree to a T .... The LT is such light years ahead of other bikes in the class, what go's wrong just gets fixed.
So far in my case of 40K miles, only a rear diff "SEAL" failure, tho I did replace the bearing because I could, $140 in parts ... BFD

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post #67 of 241 Old Jan 22nd, 2009, 4:04 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Does anyone know if BMW in Germany has been contacted and if so their response.

JG
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post #68 of 241 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 11:51 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwg543
Does anyone know if BMW in Germany has been contacted and if so their response.
You're new around here, right?

BMW AG (Germany) knows all about the FD issues, because all in-warranty failed FD's get sent back to them for inspection. Their "official" response is to keep silent, but their unofficial response seems to be "There's nothing wrong here, but we're gonna upgrade the FD on the new bikes anyway, please buy one of those from us, whoops, seems those are failing, too, but there's still nothing wrong."

What we've gleaned around here from 10 years of this problem and many talented people looking into it is that some of these will fail, some won't, and there is no real guarantee that any particular bike is immune. You just gotta ride it, and take your chances.

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post #69 of 241 Old Jan 26th, 2009, 4:03 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

[QUOTE=motorhead]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo

Agree to a T .... The LT is such light years ahead of other bikes in the class, what go's wrong just gets fixed.
So far in my case of 40K miles, only a rear diff "SEAL" failure, tho I did replace the bearing because I could, $140 in parts ... BFD
I had an LT and now have a GL. Both are good. Neither is perfect. There are things I prefer about both. I wouldn't characterize either as being far ahead of the other, all things considered. YMMV
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post #70 of 241 Old Jan 31st, 2009, 2:22 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I have a 02 and lost my first FD at 37K I just lost my 2nd at 104K . I well rebuild mine every 40 to 50K from now on I still think it is the best ride on the road. If BMW would say that you should service the FD every so many miles in the first place I don't think we would be having a problem.
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post #71 of 241 Old Mar 3rd, 2009, 3:05 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Hi guys, I'm obviously a new member on this thread. To make a long and most likely boring story short: I'm thinking of purchasing an LT after 25 years of not owning a bike. My last was a R75 that I was run over on for the 3rd time in 1984. With a wife and 4 kids to care for I quit riding. The kids are grown and I'm ready to get back into it. The final drive problem seems to be a continuing problem for the LT. I've also been looking at the 1300GT but am concerned about the lack of storage space in the what appears to be smaller bags. Then there is the shorter wheel base. The vast majority of my use will be on the interstate and maybe some mountain hard surface from time to time. Anyone know the latest and greatest from BMW on the FD problem? Does the 1300 GT have the same drive shaft as the LT?
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post #72 of 241 Old Mar 3rd, 2009, 4:16 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffklt
Sounds argumentative to me but I'll respond anyway. NHTSA has received many reports of this problem which many of us believe occurs in numbers far beyond what should be acceptable and has been obvious for eight years now. The reports to NHTSA are not clustered in a single location so after much discussion on the LDRider list Jim Puckett decided to try to centralize the reporting and has been in contact with NHTSA so that they can see the numbers in one location. What makes this failure different, IMHO, is magnitude, duration and safety factors involved. I paid for my failure outside of warranty and did not seek BMWNA reimbursement but will think long and hard about buying another BMW unless they step up and find a remedy to the problem that we, the folks on this list, have discussed with them directly on several occassions over the past several years.

YMMV
Just curious. Why did you not seek help from BMW NA if you feel the final drive failure is a safety related failure based on inferior design, materials or workmanship?
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post #73 of 241 Old Apr 10th, 2009, 12:12 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Final drive failure at 57,348 miles on my 2001 K1200LT. Got the bike back a couple weeks ago and rides like a brand new bike...I just hope that it lasts at least another 50,000 miles.

Symptoms - started feeling vibration at the foot pegs and handle bars, mostly at 2,500 RPM and at 40 MPH. Also rough sound when coasting with the engine shutoff. For two weeks a was puzzled and thought that it may a problem internally in the engine or shaft drive, but it wasn't until I decided to take it into the shop to have checked that problem was pin pointed.

Findings - metal shavings in drain plug, main bearing removed due to excessive backlash: .65mm Limit is .1 - 22 mm, also had ball cage failure.

Repairs - replacement of main bearing, shaft bearing, shaft seal, and re-shim.

Total Cost: $489.35

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post #74 of 241 Old Apr 22nd, 2009, 11:39 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I was at the dealership yesterday looking at the k 1200LT but after reading all of your posts on final drive failure it looks like if I buy this model I will have a failure and that is unacceptable for a motorcycle of this price and reputation. Is there something I have missed here?
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post #75 of 241 Old Apr 23rd, 2009, 8:28 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportrider
I was at the dealership yesterday looking at the k 1200LT but after reading all of your posts on final drive failure it looks like if I buy this model I will have a failure and that is unacceptable for a motorcycle of this price and reputation. Is there something I have missed here?
Key thang to do here is; make sure the 4 bikes sold before yours have the final drive fail on 'em --- then you can pick from the next 96 and have no worries!!!

Being a leetle sarcastical here, butt if I read all the cage, truck, scoot, ATV, tractor, bicycle, bus, etc forums and discounted all the failed 'sumpthin's', I'd prolly be walkin'; course then, I'd read about all the hip replacements on the excercise forums and that'd put me on the couch - hoping the bolster don't fall off while I'm stayin' safe!!!

Seriously, you wanna ride a damn fine bike and know what it's like, come on down to Boerne and take ole Toad out for a spin in the Tejas Hill Country. Then you can read that final drive thread 'til the cows come home, and realize there are 35,000+ LTs in country and lookee how many posts are in that thread!!

C'mon - join the family what is havin' way much fun. We'd love to have the newest LT on the road show up at the Grifster's gearage for some help doin' the tech session dance.
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post #76 of 241 Old Apr 23rd, 2009, 8:47 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportrider
I was at the dealership yesterday looking at the k 1200LT but after reading all of your posts on final drive failure it looks like if I buy this model I will have a failure and that is unacceptable for a motorcycle of this price and reputation. Is there something I have missed here?
As Dick said you mainly here about the bad bad stuff that happens to people on any forum. This one is no exception, That being said I have a 2000 LT that I bought 4 years ago with 13,200 miles on her now it at 54,000 miles. I have had zero troubles with my bike. I do all my own Maintenance and enjoy every bit of it. You can go to the Goldwing forum and read about frames breaking. The Honda ST forum and read about over heating . Or any other forum you will get the same thing. Most folks who do not have problem with their bikes ride them not post about them. If you want to learn anything about the LT this is a great site with lost of very knowledgable people. Some that know more about this bike then the dealers do. If you want to see the bike in all it glory (nakin that is) come to Grif's Tach Session in May

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post #77 of 241 Old May 25th, 2009, 12:51 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I too am looking at the LT. Currently riding a H-D Ultra Classic. I looked at the registry and did not find a LT on the list newer that 2006. I know that list is not all inclusive, but could one assume the problem (at least for the LT) is fading, and newer bikes have a greater chance of no failures? Or is this because newer bikes don't have enough miles on them to have this failure?

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post #78 of 241 Old Jun 1st, 2009, 7:50 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn
As Dick said you mainly here about the bad bad stuff that happens to people on any forum. This one is no exception, That being said I have a 2000 LT that I bought 4 years ago with 13,200 miles on her now it at 54,000 miles. I have had zero troubles with my bike. I do all my own Maintenance and enjoy every bit of it. You can go to the Goldwing forum and read about frames breaking. The Honda ST forum and read about over heating . Or any other forum you will get the same thing. Most folks who do not have problem with their bikes ride them not post about them. If you want to learn anything about the LT this is a great site with lost of very knowledgable people. Some that know more about this bike then the dealers do. If you want to see the bike in all it glory (nakin that is) come to Grif's Tach Session in May
Interesting comment. I'm a fan of the LT and have many miles on them - but I bought a new 2008 Goldwing. Both bikes go about accomplishing the same thing in a slightly different way and both are successful. The one area where Honda is far superior to BMW is in how they respond to a problem. FDs have been detonating on Beemers for years and the factories response has been "screw the customer." When Honda had a frame cracking issue - they fixed it and now there is no issue! Hondas have had FD failures and other issues as well - but don't confuse rare issues with a chronic one like on the BMWs. The fact is, BMW is taking the low road and YOU are paying the price! Check the resale on an LT now - I could've had one for way less than the cost of the wing (with similar equipment - mine has ABS and Nav). I’m not saying I would’ve bought an LT instead if not for the FD problems – the Honda has a better combination of features for me and it’s drawback are more easily remedied in the aftermarket – except for the electric screen which is relatively minor.

I applaud those of you here that are taking BMW to task - great bikes deserve better support. Those of you making excuses for their inaction are merely exacerbating the problem.
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post #79 of 241 Old Jun 1st, 2009, 8:52 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
Interesting comment. I'm a fan of the LT and have many miles on them - but I bought a new 2008 Goldwing. Both bikes go about accomplishing the same thing in a slightly different way and both are successful. The one area where Honda is far superior to BMW is in how they respond to a problem. FDs have been detonating on Beemers for years and the factories response has been "screw the customer." When Honda had a frame cracking issue - they fixed it and now there is no issue! Hondas have had FD failures and other issues as well - but don't confuse rare issues with a chronic one like on the BMWs. The fact is, BMW is taking the low road and YOU are paying the price! Check the resale on an LT now - I could've had one for way less than the cost of the wing (with similar equipment - mine has ABS and Nav). I’m not saying I would’ve bought an LT instead if not for the FD problems – the Honda has a better combination of features for me and it’s drawback are more easily remedied in the aftermarket – except for the electric screen which is relatively minor.

I applaud those of you here that are taking BMW to task - great bikes deserve better support. Those of you making excuses for their inaction are merely exacerbating the problem.
Humm... You wrote above, "The one area where Honda is far superior to BMW is in how they respond to a problem. FDs have been detonating on Beemers for years and the factories response has been "screw the customer." When Honda had a frame cracking issue - they fixed it and now there is no issue!"

It is my understanding that while BMW has not publicly acknowledged responsibility for final drive failures, it has for the most part taken care of problems even beyond the warranty period on bikes that have not been abused. You mentioned the defective rames on Honda GL1800s. There have been at least two seperate frame issues with the GL1800. In one instance, a recall for inspection was anounced and the other is being handled under a TSB. There are other issues with the GL1800 that are less well known but similarly pesky. My points are that both companies are stepping up to the plate, in my opinion and that neither bike is perfect. Having owned both, I prefer the K LT for it's handling, (suspension), fuel consumption, ergonomics and style. The GL however, gets my vote for low end torque and it's sound system.
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post #80 of 241 Old Jun 1st, 2009, 9:19 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Humm... You wrote above, "The one area where Honda is far superior to BMW is in how they respond to a problem. FDs have been detonating on Beemers for years and the factories response has been "screw the customer." When Honda had a frame cracking issue - they fixed it and now there is no issue!"

It is my understanding that while BMW has not publicly acknowledged responsibility for final drive failures, it has for the most part taken care of problems even beyond the warranty period on bikes that have not been abused. You mentioned the defective rames on Honda GL1800s. There have been at least two seperate frame issues with the GL1800. In one instance, a recall for inspection was anounced and the other is being handled under a TSB. There are other issues with the GL1800 that are less well known but similarly pesky. My points are that both companies are stepping up to the plate, in my opinion and that neither bike is perfect. Having owned both, I prefer the K LT for it's handling, (suspension), fuel consumption, ergonomics and style. The GL however, gets my vote for low end torque and it's sound system.
Complex bikes all have some issues and drawbacks. In the case of BMWc- if they pay for the repair even past the warranty period - that's a minor consolation when you're sitting on the side of the road 500 miles from the nearest dealer. Note that the only bikes that dropped out of the last Iron Butt for machanical failure were BMWs. There are no perfect bikes, but there is a reason all the BMW boards have threads on FD failures.

BTW - good assessment on the relative stregths of the Wing and LT. I've found the wing forks to have slightly better feedback, but don't perform as well as the LTs. Race Teck bake a gold valve kit for the Wing that I'll probably get along with a fork brace and progressive springs to tidy it up. I wish either bike had a rear suspension as well sorted as the one on my Concours14 - whick is the best shaft drive rear end setup on the planet. I expect that both BMW and Honda will emulate it on the next redesign.
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post #81 of 241 Old Jun 1st, 2009, 10:43 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Failed on my last trip. Just over the New York state line, some 700 miles from home. Stopped for fuel, 25 miles later I felt a vibration in my feet. Another 10 miles and the rear wheel started to wobble at 70 MPH. Slowed to about 45 and limped to the exit and gas station where all the oil dumped out.

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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
Note that the only bikes that dropped out of the last Iron Butt for mechanical failure were BMWs.
Now that's simply not true. There was an HD with blown cylinder head and base gaskets that limped back to a DNF. And an FJR1300 with a failed stator that DNF'd. And an ST1100 with a front wheel problem 140 miles from the finish that forced the rider to borrow a bike from a complete stranger just to finish (with a severe points penalty). And that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
There are no perfect bikes, but there is a reason all the BMW boards have threads on FD failures.
Unfortunately, that is true.

As for the frame issue, yes, Honda eventually stepped up to the plate. But there was quite a bit of owner complaining and gnashing of teeth between when the issue was first discovered, and when Honda finally decided what they were gonna do about it all. So please don't paint that whole scenario quite as rosy as you have done.

But yes, the BMW FD failure rate is quite excessive, and is an embarrassment to the Germans. And their responses to it even more so.

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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Humm... You wrote above, "The one area where Honda is far superior to BMW is in how they respond to a problem. FDs have been detonating on Beemers for years and the factories response has been "screw the customer." When Honda had a frame cracking issue - they fixed it and now there is no issue!"

. My points are that both companies are stepping up to the plate,
BMW is letting he final drive issues cost cutomers, no problem to them yet, but they have not resovled the final drive issues to this date, its not just on the lt either, which btw is a bike of thepast, they solved the final drive issue on the LT, they aren't going to make it anymore, sad because it is a sweet touring bike like no other on the road.

now i can;t sayu much as I have had only one final drive replaced on theLT and one now on the GS, some have had multiple drive replaced and have switched brands merely because of dependability

BMW has not stepped up to the plate

Tom

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post #84 of 241 Old Jun 2nd, 2009, 6:13 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Now that's simply not true. There was an HD with blown cylinder head and base gaskets that limped back to a DNF. .
I was there when that Shovelhead came limping back in with a blown head gasket~

how many bmw's didn;t make it back in just that rally? I forget now, 4 5?

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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
Interesting comment. I'm a fan of the LT and have many miles on them - but I bought a new 2008 Goldwing.

"I applaud those of you here that are taking BMW to task - great bikes deserve better support. Those of you making excuses for their inaction are merely exacerbating the problem."
could not be better said

Tom

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post #86 of 241 Old Jun 2nd, 2009, 3:07 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Now that's simply not true. There was an HD with blown cylinder head and base gaskets that limped back to a DNF. And an FJR1300 with a failed stator that DNF'd. And an ST1100 with a front wheel problem 140 miles from the finish that forced the rider to borrow a bike from a complete stranger just to finish (with a severe points penalty). And that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

Unfortunately, that is true.

As for the frame issue, yes, Honda eventually stepped up to the plate. But there was quite a bit of owner complaining and gnashing of teeth between when the issue was first discovered, and when Honda finally decided what they were gonna do about it all. So please don't paint that whole scenario quite as rosy as you have done.

But yes, the BMW FD failure rate is quite excessive, and is an embarrassment to the Germans. And their responses to it even more so.
I stand corrected, I missed the shovelhead - but I think an old HD is entitled to blow the occasional head gasket. The FJR wasn't a mechanical failure, so I didn't mention it - but I understand it was traced to an incorrect modification. I didn't see anything on the ST on the site http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007/IBR07TotalStats_v2.xls .

In any case - the point is unchanged. Even had there been 50 failures of other bikes, they wouldn't point to an obvious design flaw like is being demonstrated on the BMW. FJRs are NOT known for electrical issues. Shovelheads on the other hand are expected to blow something regularly...

If you review the stats for the rally, youll see that 41% of all the entries were BMWs. Even Honda was only at 30%. If you go to Colorado and spend a day plying the twisties you'll see hordes of BMWs out there. BMWs real problem is that they are seriously damaging their reputation is the one area where they almost OWN the top rung - die hard touring.

The bottom line: I bought a Goldwing and BMW did a great job of selling it to me!

P.S. - My BMW is currently in the shop getting the engine replaced. Ok it isn't a bike, it's a Mini cooper S - and I'll still love it when it's fixed.

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post #87 of 241 Old Jun 30th, 2009, 8:04 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Has anyone kept a list of the various failures that occur with our bikes. You know, the final drive problem, canister problem, poor lighting and other ailments. i would interested in seeing the list!!
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post #88 of 241 Old Jun 30th, 2009, 8:42 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

What's the canister issue?

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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Generally happens on the LT if you drop the bike with it full of gas. Gas creeps up into the canister and soaks the charcoal, which in turn creates a vacuum as you ride the bike, which in turn collapses the gas tank and causes the bike to run roughly.

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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Generally happens on the LT if you drop the bike with it full of gas. Gas creeps up into the canister and soaks the charcoal, which in turn creates a vacuum as you ride the bike, which in turn collapses the gas tank and causes the bike to run roughly.

you forgot can damage the fuel sending unit

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post #91 of 241 Old Jul 2nd, 2009, 6:25 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigairroger
Has anyone kept a list of the various failures that occur with our bikes. You know, the final drive problem, canister problem, poor lighting and other ailments. i would interested in seeing the list!!
from my understnading they solved all issues with the K1200LT

they are discontinuing it

<g>

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post #92 of 241 Old Jul 2nd, 2009, 11:23 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by waco54sp
I too am looking at the LT. Currently riding a H-D Ultra Classic. I looked at the registry and did not find a LT on the list newer that 2006. I know that list is not all inclusive, but could one assume the problem (at least for the LT) is fading, and newer bikes have a greater chance of no failures? Or is this because newer bikes don't have enough miles on them to have this failure?

S Pack
I would buy the 2009 LT if I had the money to pay cash up front. I think there might be a small risk of an FD failure, but nothing like the probability of a failure on the current K1200GT or R1200RT.

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post #93 of 241 Old Jul 2nd, 2009, 2:17 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc_puckett
I would buy the 2009 LT if I had the money to pay cash up front. I think there might be a small risk of an FD failure, but nothing like the probability of a failure on the current K1200GT or R1200RT.

Jim Puckett
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I have to agree with Jim here, there are a couple bikes I wish I had not sold, My K1200LT is top of the list of them!

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post #94 of 241 Old Jul 11th, 2009, 10:49 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I updated mu info on my final drive failure.. unfortunately when I was PIzzed oph from when it originally happened, I had the gumption to enter the data on that date...
today I entered it again... so...... please remove one of the failures as it has happened yet.. Again..yet.

got me feathers a little ruffled.

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post #95 of 241 Old Jul 11th, 2009, 10:55 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Wow. I found this site the day after my KLT with 40,000 miles had the final drive bearing go out. I barely made it to the Service garage. I am waiting for my bike repar now. Thanks for all of the insight. I can sure see that I am not alone, unfortunately. I do love my bike, though. Jim
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post #96 of 241 Old Jul 12th, 2009, 1:06 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Add me to the list :-(

2001, 37k.
Took off for a short trip & found I had no rear brakes at the end of my street. First place I looked, yup, oil running down the rotor & tire.

Fortunately I bought a used FD on eBay a year or two ago. 2 hours labor for BMW Motorcycles of Grand Rapids to swap them out and I'm back riding. Until next time...

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post #97 of 241 Old Aug 30th, 2009, 9:12 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Great credibility when the survey is done by BMW owners with FD problems....

There are so many BMW's out there on the road that have NEVER had any type of FD problem that it makes one laugh at this 4% B.S......None of you and that includes you intellectual giants can produce documents from any firm to validate your 4%..... .......


Really,,, If you don't like the bike get one you do like and spend your time on a forum that supports your views.... But your continually bad mouthing different little parts for years at a time with "NO" backup evidence at all... This board is for mainly positive thoughts and positive stories.... All this mainly made up B.S. gets old after a few years................. Go ride

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post #98 of 241 Old Aug 30th, 2009, 11:16 pm
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

In these situations, consumers generally resort to a class-action lawsuit. Unless we have some friends in DC, ain't nuttin gonna happen at that NTSA. Do we have a counselor in the crowd that would comment about the possibility of a class-action lawsuit off the clock? The Fatherland would have to respond.

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post #99 of 241 Old Aug 31st, 2009, 5:43 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
... This board is for mainly positive thoughts and positive stories....
I don't know the history of this forum. Are you the founder?

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post #100 of 241 Old Aug 31st, 2009, 6:07 am
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Re: Final Drive Failure registry

I think the 3 to 4% failure rate has been pretty well established as accurate. I am as embarrassed for BMW as I am upset with the company for not taking steps to correct the problem.

Whether or not you agree, you are likely aware that BMW had a smaller percentage of bikes in the IBR this year than in the past; that at one FD has already failed and that 4 (?) failed in the most recent past IBR. You may also know that at least a couple BMW riders in the 2009 IBR are carrying spare FD units.



None of the above should be interpreted to indicate that I do not like BMWs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Great credibility when the survey is done by BMW owners with FD problems....

There are so many BMW's out there on the road that have NEVER had any type of FD problem that it makes one laugh at this 4% B.S......None of you and that includes you intellectual giants can produce documents from any firm to validate your 4%..... .....

Really,,, If you don't like the bike get one you do like and spend your time on a forum that supports your views.... But your continually bad mouthing different little parts for years at a time with "NO" backup evidence at all... This board is for mainly positive thoughts and positive stories.... All this mainly made up B.S. gets old after a few years................. Go ride
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