Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By white01
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 5:05 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Hello everyone.

I'm confused about the procedure to adjust the TPS on my K1200LT.

Last week I got my throttle body back from Bing.
It was cleaned, inspected, and adjusted as it was in the factory.
They also measured and adjusted the TPS correctly.

So, I installed it back in the bike.


When I start the bike, it runs about 1000 rpm.
When it reaches normal temperate it runs about 1200 rpm.
When I turn the throttle a few times, sometimes the rpm "hangs" on 1500 rpm for about a second, then drops back to 1200 rpm.

Decreasing rpm is going to slow, that happens always.

So I thought, check the TPS setting.
Activated the procedure, with the gs911, and it is halfway in the red zone.
So I asked the repair man from Bing.
He said TPS is installed and adjusted before the throttle valve actuator is placed.

Ok, I removed the throttle valve actuator, and tried the procedure again.
It was perfect in the middle of the green zone.

Question:
Should the throttle valve actuator be in place, when the TPS procedure is started?

Let's assume I want to follow the procedure to adjust the TPS.

Start the procedure with the throttle valve actuator in place.
It turns on red, TPS being incorrect.
Ok, I go on in the procedure to adjust TPS.
Left the ignition on the whole procedure.
Next step according to the gs911 (besides checking throttle cables) is to remove the throttle valve actuator.
But then my TPS setting turns green!

I understand why it does that, the throttle valve actuator isn't pushing against the throttle body anymore.
And the TPS is adjusted by Bing without the throttle valve actuator on it.
But how can you adjust the TPS in this way?

Should it be adjusted without, or with throttle valve actuator installed?
Or should i remove the throttle valve actuator BEFORE starting the TPS procedure? (if thats the case, the instructions the GS911 give are incorrect in my opinion)


Why did I send in the throttle body to Bing?
Because I messed it up.
Bike was running ok, but it got a 60k check, so I thought check everything with the gs911.
It said TPS out of range so I adjusted it, and that went wrong.
Because the throttle body was synchronised in the past, I was unable to get it back as it was.
The bike was ok before I messed it up, so there should be no other problem that causes these problems with stationary rpm.


What did I checked out:

The is no tension what do ever on the throttle body.
There are no l leaks (tried with break cleaner with bike running)
Adjustment for throttle cables is ok. (Cold and warm adjusted)
Also the cruise control cable is adjusted correct correctly.
Motronic had a reset.
Battery is ok and full.
Installed a second new set of spark plugs just to be sure.
Installed was a new throttle valve actuator by Bing.
Installed a second new throttle valve actuator by myself (spare part)

I'm going to adjust the screw that's behind the throttle valve actuator to get the rpm down.
It will also change the TPS setting.
Let's see what it does.

I'm just curious what the TPS adjustment should be (so that it works).


Besides that i'm left with the questions:

Why the rpm is increasing when the bike reaches normal temperate?
There should also be a reason that the RPM drops that slowly, if i release the gas?

And i Noticed during the ride today, that where Idle now normally is 1200 RPM, when i hit the brakes RPM immediately drops to 1000 RPM?
(Could be that this is normal behavior, and when Idle is at 950/1000 rpm and you hit the brakes that the Motronic increases the Idle. Could someone confirm or deny this?)

Regards Rene
white01 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 7:53 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,365
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Rene, the procedure is a bit convoluted but yes, it should be started with the TVA installed and removed during the test. If you are in the middle of the green at the point where the TVA has been removed, then the TPS is adjusted correctly.

The first thing I would do is a TB reset. Turn the key on without starting and then open the throttle from 0 to full and release 3 times then turn the key off. Then start as normal. You might try riding with it for a little while and see if it can relearn where it needs to be for a proper idle.

If that has no effect, one thing you can do is pull off the TVA and start the bike. You should have to hold it up just off the stop to keep it running. If it idles normally warm, then the idle stop screw may be a little too high as normally it should want to stall with the TVA removed. Adjusting that screw changes the at rest position of the TPS and it may need to be adjusted again so only think about changing that as a last resort. The TVA sets the idle and if it can't close the throttle body enough, the idle would be high. If the idle is low with the TVA removed, then the TB stop is probably OK. This is tested by the GS911 and would normally indicate an error of some type and I don't remember but possibly a maximum extent in one direction expecting to be able to close the TPS further than it can at minimum to achieve the desired voltage from the TPS.

Messing with the screws is not recommended but hopefully, the TB is adjusted properly and all you might need to do is a 1/4 turn or so on the TVA screw to allow it to close the TB enough to reach a proper idle. Some people use the TVA bracket to pull the TB off and have slightly bent it causing it to be out of adjustment.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Signature
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 2:38 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Thank you Gordon.

Then it's a weird procedure indeed, testing it with the TVA installed, and adjust without it.
However the difference is small, both are different values for the TPS.

The Motronic reset is known, I tried it a few times, even had the battery disconnected for a while before using it.
It didn't make any changes.
Rode the bike for about 150 miles, no changes.

So, now i changed the TVA screw:

First a 1/8 turn.
TPS was just out of range, but 1 twist and release on the throttle was enough to get in the green zone.
The adjustment of the TVA was ok according to the Gs911.
Idle went down to 1000/1050 rpm (warm)
But the rpm still won't decrease fast enough, if I release the throttle.

So, I turned the screw again 1/8 turn.
That would make it a total turn of 1/4 as you indicated.
TPS still just out of range, but again 1 twist and let go of the throttle put it in the green zone.
Idle went down to 950/1000 rpm, sometimes 1050. (Warm)
Also, when I release the throttle, rpm goes straight down as it should.
But: now it says, TVA out of range.
Tried the procedure a few times, didn't made a difference.
I'm gone leave it as it is, as it runs and idles ok.
Let's see what happens.

I have been extremely carefull with building everything back together, so the bracket should be ok.
There is also no tension what so ever on the TB.


I'm puzzling on the third part of your reply " if that had no affect......... from the TPS."
I'll get back on that part
white01 is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 8:08 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,365
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Quote:
Originally Posted by white01 View Post
Thank you Gordon.

Then it's a weird procedure indeed, testing it with the TVA installed, and adjust without it.
However the difference is small, both are different values for the TPS.

The Motronic reset is known, I tried it a few times, even had the battery disconnected for a while before using it.
It didn't make any changes.
Rode the bike for about 150 miles, no changes.

So, now i changed the TVA screw:

First a 1/8 turn.
TPS was just out of range, but 1 twist and release on the throttle was enough to get in the green zone.
The adjustment of the TVA was ok according to the Gs911.
Idle went down to 1000/1050 rpm (warm)
But the rpm still won't decrease fast enough, if I release the throttle.

So, I turned the screw again 1/8 turn.
That would make it a total turn of 1/4 as you indicated.
TPS still just out of range, but again 1 twist and let go of the throttle put it in the green zone.
Idle went down to 950/1000 rpm, sometimes 1050. (Warm)
Also, when I release the throttle, rpm goes straight down as it should.
But: now it says, TVA out of range.
Tried the procedure a few times, didn't made a difference.
I'm gone leave it as it is, as it runs and idles ok.
Let's see what happens.

I have been extremely carefull with building everything back together, so the bracket should be ok.
There is also no tension what so ever on the TB.


I'm puzzling on the third part of your reply " if that had no affect......... from the TPS."
I'll get back on that part
Did you take the TVA off and see where the idle was? Moving the TVA screw should not change the TPS position during the part of the test where the TVA is removed. The TPS should be sitting at the idle stop as fully closed as it can be where the TPS is adjusted ( rotated) for proper position. The testing prior to that is an exercise of the TVA to see if it is able to be adjusted electronically and reach the desired voltage range off the TPS. It has been some time since I have done that test so my memory is not great on the exact process.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Signature
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 9:56 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,365
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Was in a hurry to get off to work this morning so my reply was quick. The " if it had no effect" was in relation to the throttle 3 times reset. That resets the computers perception of where fully closed is. If that did nothing to resolve your issue, then moving on to what you did was probably the correct action.

The purpose of starting the bike with the TVA removed is to asses if the idle set screw is too high. The bike really should want to stall with no TVA installed. If it still idles normally, then either there is an air leak or the stop screw is a bit proud and may need to be backed off just a touch. If the company you sent your TB to is good, then I would not mess with that adjustment. Changing the idle stop screw moves the TPS to a lower value and would require resetting the TPS base adjustment followed by the TVA. If you are adjusting the TVA stop screw and the idle is dropping, then I would suspect the hard idle stop screw on the TB is OK and not holding the bikes idle too high.

It sounds like you are making progress though. I agree with leaving it where it is and seeing how that works over some time.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Signature
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 6:46 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Hello Gordon.

Sorry for the late reply, had 2 very busy days over here.

I didn't tried running the bike without TVA installed to see if it will idle or stall.
When I saw your comment on this, the fuel tank was already on the bike.

When I was finished building the bike together, I tried the TPS procedure again.
I was very surprised to get a green on the TPS, and an oké for the TVA adjustment.

So, I went for a ride yesterday. (150 miles)
It runs oké, acceleration is oké.


Thera are 2 small things that remains:

If it idles, and I hit the brakes , rpm goes down for about 200 rpm.
I don't know if that's normal.
I own this bike for almost 10 years now, but never noticed it before.
It could be the amount of power the power-breaks use, but I would expect the Motronic to get the idle up immediately to 950 rpm.
It doesn't.

Another thing:
When driving and releasing the throttle, sometimes rpm goes down immediately to 1000 rpm,.
Sometimes it falls down immediately to 1500 rpm, "hangs" for a small moment, then it slowly goes down to 1000 rpm.

Couldn't notice when it does the first or last option, maybe I find out while riding more miles.


Tried the TPS procedure once again after the test ride to see if the Motronic made some changes during the ride.
TPS was just in the red zone again, twisting the throttle once put it back in the green zone.
Throttle cables indicator didn't move while moving the front from left to right.
So, it could be another tiny turn on the TVA screw puts the TPS final in the green zone.
That might also solve the issue with decreasing rpm to idle.


The throttle body was send to the official repair shop from Bing, so it should be oké.
Of course there is always a difference between adjusting according to specs outside the bike, and running in a bike with almost 120.000 km on it.

If you have more thought about this, i'm very interested.

For now:

I want to thank you BIG time!
I'm not afraid to try things, but I like to know what I'm doing, before I do it.
The information provided, made a huge difference!

Regards Rene
white01 is offline  
post #7 of 8 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 8:17 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,365
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Rene, the TPS adjustment does not change unless you loosen the screws and twist it as long as you don't turn the idle stop screw. It is an absolute position reference for the position of the TB. The motronic does not make dynamic adjustments to that setting and the adjustment is done with the TVA removed. The motronic uses the TVA to adjust the idle of the bike. Are you pulling it apart again to run the test? If not, then your results may be skewed when you get to the TPS adjustment test with the TVA still installed. Still, you may need to adjust the TVA screw just a touch more if you can't live with it the way it is but as you can see, it doesn't take much.

I am going to guess that you are not in the USA and if that is the case, your 2001 possibly has the servo assist ( wizzy ) brakes. I don't have those and never noticed if the engine decreases at idle when brakes are applied but if you do have the Integrated ABS brake system, there could be a fairly heavy load on the alternator when the brakes are applied so I am going to say it is possible.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Signature
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old Jun 21st, 2017, 3:33 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Idle Problem K1200LT 2001 . TPS Procedure with GS911

Hello Gordon.

We were out a few days, thats why it was so quiet.

I understand the motronic doesn't change the tps setting.
But sometimes it takes some driving to learn the motronic the new settings, thats what i ment.

I'm going to leave it for now, as it runs well.
After i'm back from our holiday, i will take it down again to see if i can get it to 100 %.

I live in Landgraaf (the Netherlands), so yes, i have the servo assist on the brakes.
I'm gonna drive on the new 2005 model in a few days, that gives me the chance to see what that one does.
Hilton and bmwcoolk1200 like this.
white01 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2001 K1200LT Tires. Noggin1970 K1200LT 23 Aug 10th, 2016 8:28 pm
Need help wont idle 2005 k1200lt aufevermike K1200LT 6 Dec 5th, 2015 3:08 am
Fuel pump issue on 2001 k1200LT Gizmoguy K1200LT 9 Aug 27th, 2014 12:28 pm
2001 LT Starting problem eoink K1200LT 2 Apr 22nd, 2013 7:53 pm
Speedbleeder part# for a 2001 K1200LT cjgonzo1 K1200LT 7 Mar 8th, 2006 10:47 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome