1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help! - Page 2 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #51 of 86 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 5:38 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

easy to check it when they are broken it will be obvious, the hard part is refitting it and NOT breaking those two detents

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post #52 of 86 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 5:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

I did start pull the nut then saw how complicated it was I figure was best leave it in there unplug it so put nut back on just remembered... so I'm gonna order the reverse module give it a shot think about cut other one apart see if really bad under there... any idea on the two barrels does only one wire get pwr please fill me in if any one know be good to know...?
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post #53 of 86 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 6:55 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by 99k1200lt-Justin View Post
I did start pull the nut then saw how complicated it was I figure was best leave it in there unplug it so put nut back on just remembered... so I'm gonna order the reverse module give it a shot think about cut other one apart see if really bad under there... any idea on the two barrels does only one wire get pwr please fill me in if any one know be good to know...?
Before I started parts swapping, I would ensure sell interlocks are satisfied. I think Sailor has listed in prior posts the conditions required for the LT to start (maybe even to crank, I don't recall for sure). I think there are at least three and maybe four or more. From memory, I think they are sidestand switch, neutral switch, reverser position and it seems like I am missing at least one. Might want to peruse Sailors old posts as I think he has covered this in detail at least a few times.

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post #54 of 86 Old Jun 12th, 2017, 9:28 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Before I started parts swapping, I would ensure sell interlocks are satisfied. I think Sailor has listed in prior posts the conditions required for the LT to start (maybe even to crank, I don't recall for sure). I think there are at least three and maybe four or more. From memory, I think they are sidestand switch, neutral switch, reverser position and it seems like I am missing at least one. Might want to peruse Sailors old posts as I think he has covered this in detail at least a few times.
I think you missed the clutch handle switch. Directions have been given to check these things already prior to finding out the battery had been installed backwards so they have been instructed to be tested.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #55 of 86 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 3:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Order new reverse controller. I have my dought on it be the issue my guts telling me it's a lockout issue be that I do get pwr to everything but I value the opinions here so first is a reverse Controller. Can't see inside or tell if anything went bad worth a shot. My ecu looks to be perfect so I know that's most like not issue. If the reverse don't fix it I'm gonna be stumped and really gonna need dubble check the safty/lockout issue again cause I know I'm getting every thing but a signal to complete my circuts...
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post #56 of 86 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 5:12 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Order new reverse controller. I have my dought on it be the issue my guts telling me it's a lockout issue be that I do get pwr to everything but I value the opinions here so first is a reverse Controller. Can't see inside or tell if anything went bad worth a shot. My ecu looks to be perfect so I know that's most like not issue. If the reverse don't fix it I'm gonna be stumped and really gonna need dubble check the safty/lockout issue again cause I know I'm getting every thing but a signal to complete my circuts...
If you had a Clymer manual and could look at the schematics, you would see that the lockouts are controlled by signals from the reverse controller and the ECU. We have given you what signals influence the lockouts to test.

1. Kill switch ( power to emergency shut off)
2. Gear selector ( not in neutral with stand down kills emergency relay, clutch must be in to start)
3. Side stand switch ( down while in gear kills emergency relay)
4. Clutch lever switch ( in gear with leaver not in kills starter relay)
5. Reverse switches ( Starter relay is connected through them)

All of these either disable the emergency shut relay or in the case of the clutch switch, the starter relay. They are safety lockouts so prevent starting unless certain conditions are met. They all go through the reverse controller. It is a good first step if you verified all the other pieces.

Your ECU looks perfect but the it turns on the fuel pump, runs all the injectors and the coils, has the input from the throttle so if the ignition was turned on with the backwards battery, unlike the always hot links to the reverse and ABS controller, it could have also damaged that but we won't know until you get that far.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #57 of 86 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 7:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Yout right I've went over all that and still got nothing.. so hopfully reverse controller will be problem if not think I should order a ecu? If I still get nothing what should I look into next? So you think even thought nothing to the eye looks to be bad in the ecu could still have fried it without be visable?
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post #58 of 86 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 8:15 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
If you had a Clymer manual and could look at the schematics, you would see that the lockouts are controlled by signals from the reverse controller and the ECU. We have given you what signals influence the lockouts to test.

1. Kill switch ( power to emergency shut off)
2. Gear selector ( not in neutral with stand down kills emergency relay, clutch must be in to start)
3. Side stand switch ( down while in gear kills emergency relay)
4. Clutch lever switch ( in gear with leaver not in kills starter relay)
5. Reverse switches ( Starter relay is connected through them)

All of these either disable the emergency shut relay or in the case of the clutch switch, the starter relay. They are safety lockouts so prevent starting unless certain conditions are met. They all go through the reverse controller. It is a good first step if you verified all the other pieces.

Your ECU looks perfect but the it turns on the fuel pump, runs all the injectors and the coils, has the input from the throttle so if the ignition was turned on with the backwards battery, unlike the always hot links to the reverse and ABS controller, it could have also damaged that but we won't know until you get that far.
In addition to Gordon's list above, when troubleshooting these type of problems, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT to remember these points:

1) If one does attempt to set / check his hall-effect-sensor (ignition trigger) using GS911, you may leave the ECU in an unknown state when the whole GS911 procedure is not completed until the end. In such unknown state, the starter will turn but engine will not start.

2) Normally, when all is well, after you turn ignition ON (just before attempt starting), the RED engine-temp warning-light should go and stay ON (until engine starts). In same logic, the fuel-pump will prime as it is connected to ECU via Hall effect sensor trigger - all these being related to starter interlock conditions.

3.a) Anytime the ECU (Motronic) is off-line because of any interlock conditions not being met (see list above in previous post), the engine-temp light will be OFF (and stay OFF) just after ignition is turned ON. ALSO, in same logic, fuel-pump will not prime.

3.b) Exception to above item: whenever the Reverser Knob is in Reverse position -OR- the Reverser-knob 4 contacts microswitch is defective, the Starter will refuse to engage BUT the RED engine-temp warning will still show ON (as if all the interlocks were all satisfied).

4) Of course, one must know if his engine-temp warning light was functioning before his ordeal (bulb not burned or removed). I would bet most K1200LT owner do not pay attention to this warning light after ignition is turned ON ... although many eventually pay attention to fuel-pump priming noise for troubleshooting puposes ;-)

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #59 of 86 Old Jun 13th, 2017, 8:23 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Yout right I've went over all that and still got nothing.. so hopfully reverse controller will be problem if not think I should order a ecu? If I still get nothing what should I look into next? So you think even thought nothing to the eye looks to be bad in the ecu could still have fried it without be visable?
It is possible for nothing to look bad. It might have fried a circuit trace that is inbetween layers on the board if it is a multi layer board or simply blown a mosfet transister. We don't have the interior details to do circuit board level repair on those things so it is a swap and see since you don't have the benefit of any diagnostic device. We can measure some signals on pins from the schematic but board level repair is beyond most people, even good mechanics. I have done some from a lightning strike long in my past but I had the benefit of a good circuit diagram not just a wiring harness and then there is the parts some of which may be programmable and without the program.......

FWIW, you are on the right path having done what you could to verify the interlocks. I hope the reverse controller brings that puppy back to life.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #60 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 1:25 am Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Thanks for the info! Every little thing I know will get me that much closer to enjoying the ride!
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post #61 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 1:28 am Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Thanks brotha me to I'm hope with all your info and input this new reverse controller will get her going I can't wait get it out on the road and enjoy it after all the hard work and hrs spent on it!!
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post #62 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 9:45 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Thanks brotha me to I'm hope with all your info and input this new reverse controller will get her going I can't wait get it out on the road and enjoy it after all the hard work and hrs spent on it!!
If you plan on keeping it after you get it running again, I would recommend you get a Clymer manual. Even ASE certified mechanics use a reference now and then.

Gordon
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1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #63 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 10:08 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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If you plan on keeping it after you get it running again, I would recommend you get a Clymer manual. Even ASE certified mechanics use a reference now and then.
And a GS-911 as a good mechanic knows the importance of having the appropriate tools.
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post #64 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 1:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Hey right tool for the job is alway a huge plus! I'm not above a book any info makes any ones life easier no dought about that! I got update from shipper should be here Fri or sat... and I got a gs-900 saved on ebay and a Clymer book those are are on my list to get very soon that's forsure plan on keep my LT for long time now I know how to do anything on it no big deal I'll keep her :-)
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post #65 of 86 Old Jun 14th, 2017, 1:56 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Hey right tool for the job is alway a huge plus! I'm not above a book any info makes any ones life easier no dought about that! I got update from shipper should be here Fri or sat... and I got a gs-900 saved on ebay and a Clymer book those are are on my list to get very soon that's forsure plan on keep my LT for long time now I know how to do anything on it no big deal I'll keep her :-)
Be wary of cheap knock offs on that GS911. I have not seen one but have heard of them. A GS 911 is not cheap. If you can find an authentic used one, great!

The Home of GS-911 ? HEX Code
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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post #66 of 86 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 1:09 am Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Hey was reading up on some other issues... Now I read that some one was saying there are 2 fuel pump relays is this true??? If so we're is the second one? I'm hoping the reverse controller will be in tmr but proble sat if not I hope I wanna dig back into this and get it figure out nice weather is coming and me and my wife 9 yr anniversary is soon would be nice to hit the beach on my LT with all your help maybe it will be posable! :-)
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post #67 of 86 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 7:39 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Hey was reading up on some other issues... Now I read that some one was saying there are 2 fuel pump relays is this true??? If so we're is the second one? I'm hoping the reverse controller will be in tmr but proble sat if not I hope I wanna dig back into this and get it figure out nice weather is coming and me and my wife 9 yr anniversary is soon would be nice to hit the beach on my LT with all your help maybe it will be posable! :-)
There is only one fuel pump relay. It is tied in with the motronic relay but I think that person is mistaken. Don't believe everything you read, even from me

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #68 of 86 Old Jun 15th, 2017, 12:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Hey I'm with you on that one lol. I figure was just the one I did fallow the wire from relay to ecu I believe was green purple now should that wire get pwr from the ecu to the relay or?
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Hey I'm with you on that one lol. I figure was just the one I did fallow the wire from relay to ecu I believe was green purple now should that wire get pwr from the ecu to the relay or?
Don't have my schematics in front of me as I do have a job and have to work occasionally I am not sure if the circuit is completed by or initiated from the ECU.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #70 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 12:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Right, works always the best not lol got my reverse controller today! But didn't get to put it in due to working in customers cars all day tmr morning it's going in! Lord please let her fire over I'd be the happiest man alive!
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post #71 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 7:27 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Right, works always the best not lol got my reverse controller today! But didn't get to put it in due to working in customers cars all day tmr morning it's going in! Lord please let her fire over I'd be the happiest man alive!
May be too late but make sure you put it in with the battery disconnected. IT has always hot connections.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #72 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 10:27 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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May be too late but make sure you put it in with the battery disconnected. IT has always hot connections.
Any work on automotive electrical systems should be done with the battery disconnected, unless you are simply troubleshooting and need power present.

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post #73 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 11:15 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Any work on automotive electrical systems should be done with the battery disconnected, unless you are simply troubleshooting and need power present.
Wanted to make sure in his excitement to get his reverse controller installed, that he didn't forget to disconnect the battery and toast it before he got to test it.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #74 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 12:16 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Wanted to make sure in his excitement to get his reverse controller installed, that he didn't forget to disconnect the battery and toast it before he got to test it.
That would be ugly.
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post #75 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 2:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Any time you remove anything or unplug is must to take off negtive. So update got it in still nothing. Now I do notice bike off when I get to third in my cluster the gear display shuts of is that normal? And when I put the lever in reverse on the side it does not show r on dash (started doing that before I replace reverse controller) what could cause that? I don'the get nothing still could it be take that nut lose on reverse stuff cause it to go bad? Anyou suggestions let me know has be somthing really simple just need to figure out what....
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Any time you remove anything or unplug is must to take off negtive. So update got it in still nothing. Now I do notice bike off when I get to third in my cluster the gear display shuts of is that normal? And when I put the lever in reverse on the side it does not show r on dash (started doing that before I replace reverse controller) what could cause that? I don'the get nothing still could it be take that nut lose on reverse stuff cause it to go bad? Anyou suggestions let me know has be somthing really simple just need to figure out what....
Can you test the relays? Make sure that they close/click with some 12V source on a bench including the two hidden under the connector block with the blue plug as one of those is the emergency cut off? Ignore the blue one as that is special and for the ABS wig wag lights.


I would hate to think you got a bad reverse controller but we can't count that out yet. The fact the R light stopped functioning is interesting but could be explained by a further failure of the controller or something else done in testing.

Take a look at the ECU that you took apart and make sure you didn't put the mounting brackets on the wrong side as you screwed it back together. If on the wrong side, it doesn't go far enough in to make contact and all is dead. Had someone do that once before.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #77 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 3:11 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

The ECU brackets go on the outside.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #78 of 86 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 8:17 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Update. New( to Justin) reverse controller installed with no change. Called him and talked with him for almost an hour about all he had done and found out that during the time with the battery backwards and trying to jump start the bike, there was just for a few seconds, a glowing wire leading into the wiring harness. After the battery was swapped back, nothing worked. Justin will be cutting back the insulation where that glowing wire fed in and check for any damaged melted wires that may have been adjacent to the one that got hot. He is also going to order another ECU to replace the current one expecting damage there also. Wishing him luck that not too much was damaged and that he doesn't have to source and replace the harness.

During the call, I got to hear a 500HP ( I think he said) Honda 4 banger on the Dyno running in the background. Would like to see that in person. Maybe you can post a pic of it if you get a chance.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #79 of 86 Old Jun 17th, 2017, 8:34 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Update from Justin. Wiring harness was toasted but not beyond hope. He has fixed the burnt wires and shrink wrapped them and now has all the interlocks working and the temp light is now on. Starter button is not working although he does get 12V on the black/yellow from the starter button so there is still an issue possibly with the reverse switches or the reverse controller completing the circuit. Manual closure of the starter relay allows the bike to start and run so good progress is being made. It is not beyond hope. Will let you know what more I find out.
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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #80 of 86 Old Jun 19th, 2017, 7:05 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

More progress. Starter button issue fixed but now the bike will start but not move. Went over the possibilities of pushrod in backwards, diaphragm spring in backwards, drive shaft not connected to FD. Turned out to be the drive shaft itself spinning freely in the rubber insulator so he is going to order another one. PO liked to do high RPM starts. No doubt the cause of the shaft failure.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
More progress. Starter button issue fixed but now the bike will start but not move. Went over the possibilities of pushrod in backwards, diaphragm spring in backwards, drive shaft not connected to FD. Turned out to be the drive shaft itself spinning freely in the rubber insulator so he is going to order another one. PO liked to do high RPM starts. No doubt the cause of the shaft failure.
Wow, when it rains it pours. Hopefully, this is the last issue.
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post #82 of 86 Old Jun 20th, 2017, 9:36 am
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Wow, when it rains it pours. Hopefully, this is the last issue.
The irony is that the drive shaft is very likely the only issue there was when he got the bike and it wasn't caught either of the two times he dropped the trans, one for the clutch and the other to check the starter when it wouldn't turn over. Everything else was self inflicted. A long road to get it running again. Hopefully this will do it.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #83 of 86 Old Jun 20th, 2017, 4:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

Ya learn the hard way but very glad finally know what it is! Glad happen this way because now I know just about everything you really need to know about the bike... I'm glad I did a clutch my old one was not far from the rivits so glad that's out of the way! Plus Now I know my bike is soild and all fluids have been change everything check out and clean up I'm very happy! plan that all goes well to still take it to the beach with my wife this weekend!! Wish me luck guys will post full update once she going but as of now I should be rocking around town on her tmr!!! I'm glad also I did have do all this cause now I know all the bolt/screw/nuts are all torque and right as I did find some things im glad I fixed that could been bad.... thanks again we shall see tmr if we all know if in the end the drive line was my issues sad but relived and happy it ended up this way I love knowing everything and how to do everything in my bike and not have pay some shop 3,500 to do a clutch... and still been without a bike.. Just an FYI any one pulling apart one of these make sure the drive line is clean in the center and don't have big black grease looking stuff on center like mine looked factory so never thought anything of it but we live and learn! Be safe out there!
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post #84 of 86 Old Jun 20th, 2017, 4:39 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by 99k1200lt-Justin View Post
Ya learn the hard way but very glad finally know what it is! Glad happen this way because now I know just about everything you really need to know about the bike... I'm glad I did a clutch my old one was not far from the rivits so glad that's out of the way! Plus Now I know my bike is soild and all fluids have been change everything check out and clean up I'm very happy! plan that all goes well to still take it to the beach with my wife this weekend!! Wish me luck guys will post full update once she going but as of now I should be rocking around town on her tmr!!! I'm glad also I did have do all this cause now I know all the bolt/screw/nuts are all torque and right as I did find some things im glad I fixed that could been bad.... thanks again we shall see tmr if we all know if in the end the drive line was my issues sad but relived and happy it ended up this way I love knowing everything and how to do everything in my bike and not have pay some shop 3,500 to do a clutch... and still been without a bike.. Just an FYI any one pulling apart one of these make sure the drive line is clean in the center and don't have big black grease looking stuff on center like mine looked factory so never thought anything of it but we live and learn! Be safe out there!
At the end of the day, was either the ECU or reverse module bad? I've lost track of what all was done. It sounds like there were two issues:
1. The prior owner abused the LT as evidenced by the worn clutch and trashed driveshaft damper.
2. You connected the battery backwards and melted the insulation on one or more wires.

Anything else that ended up actually being bad?

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post #85 of 86 Old Jun 20th, 2017, 5:09 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
At the end of the day, was either the ECU or reverse module bad? I've lost track of what all was done. It sounds like there were two issues:
1. The prior owner abused the LT as evidenced by the worn clutch and trashed driveshaft damper.
2. You connected the battery backwards and melted the insulation on one or more wires.

Anything else that ended up actually being bad?
I am curious also if the reverse controller that was in with the reversed battery is now bad or still good. It would have to be reinstalled to find out and at this point, I am not sure Justin wants to do that

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #86 of 86 Old Jun 20th, 2017, 8:23 pm
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Re: 1999 k1200lt starting issue/fuel problem/help!

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I am curious also if the reverse controller that was in with the reversed battery is now bad or still good. It would have to be reinstalled to find out and at this point, I am not sure Justin wants to do that
Probably not.

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