Looks like I'm goin' in again! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 34 Old May 30th, 2017, 7:34 pm Thread Starter
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Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Figures - Just as I am getting ready to retire and ride a bunch I hear a new whine in second gear that was not there before. Even Jean noticed it Friday as we rode up to Granny Fishes House for a catfish dinner. This tells me it is a failing transmission input shaft bearing. (I have replaced three of these so far on other bikes)

So I have ordered the parts and will be going in this weekend. While the gear box is out I think I will also pull and replace the clutch (it has over 60 K on it and a lot of trailer pulling). I got the Siebenrock, better than stock clutch disc from Beemer Boneyard. Just under $94 with the MOA discount. I had ordered one for a friend and really liked the looks of it.
Also picked up a new slave from them as well also under $100. The bike has 102 K on it and since the clutch will be out I may as well pull the intermediate case and give the sprag clutch a good soaking in Gunk carb cleaner. This would also be a good time to replace the old drive shaft that was getting a bit notchy in the u-joints with the low mileage one I got off e-bay a few years ago. Then there is the 13 year old fuel lines and I think I'll send the injectors out for a good cleaning while I am at it. Anybody think of anything else?

I just want to get as much done as I can so I don't have to go back in there again for another 100K.
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post #2 of 34 Old May 30th, 2017, 8:27 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

No. Sounds like you got it all covered.

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post #3 of 34 Old May 30th, 2017, 9:38 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

RC Engineering is a good outfit for injector service. Fast, good, inexpensive
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post #4 of 34 Old May 30th, 2017, 9:44 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Only thing I can think of would be the breather tube. Either replace it or fab up a copper one while the engine is dropped and be done. You wouldn't get them in time for this weekend but there are still sets of the silicone radiator hoses on flebay should yours be on the old side.

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post #5 of 34 Old May 30th, 2017, 9:58 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

When I first read this thread's title, the first thought I had was that John was having some health issues again. One of the premier experts on the LT is asking the group for suggestions on what may have been missed on preventative maintenance? I can't think of anything.

One suggestion, though, is that you need to get a GT/GTL/GTLE and lend your expertise on the K1600 forum. We don't have anyone there with anywhere near the depth of knowledge that resides on this forum in a handful of guys. The only thing I can ascribe this to is either the relative new-ness of the K1600 in comparison to the LT; or its improved reliability factor (no known issues relating to final drives, QDs, cannisterectomies, front end wobble at deceleration, clutch/shift linkage/ABS unit/brake line/top case latch failures, etc.). I'd also like to see more DIY videos on maintaining the K1600s, like exist for the LTs.
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post #6 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 8:02 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

WOW John, as Mr Beck indicated, Glad it's the LT that's Going In for major surgery and not you. Your Title to the post was attention getting to say the least! Anyway, and more importantly, congratulations on your up-coming retirement.
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post #7 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 8:07 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Figures - Just as I am getting ready to retire and ride a bunch I hear a new whine in second gear that was not there before. Even Jean noticed it Friday as we rode up to Granny Fishes House for a catfish dinner. This tells me it is a failing transmission input shaft bearing. (I have replaced three of these so far on other bikes)

So I have ordered the parts and will be going in this weekend. While the gear box is out I think I will also pull and replace the clutch (it has over 60 K on it and a lot of trailer pulling). I got the Siebenrock, better than stock clutch disc from Beemer Boneyard. Just under $94 with the MOA discount. I had ordered one for a friend and really liked the looks of it.
Also picked up a new slave from them as well also under $100. The bike has 102 K on it and since the clutch will be out I may as well pull the intermediate case and give the sprag clutch a good soaking in Gunk carb cleaner. This would also be a good time to replace the old drive shaft that was getting a bit notchy in the u-joints with the low mileage one I got off e-bay a few years ago. Then there is the 13 year old fuel lines and I think I'll send the injectors out for a good cleaning while I am at it. Anybody think of anything else?

I just want to get as much done as I can so I don't have to go back in there again for another 100K.

Starter rebuild.

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post #8 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 8:42 am Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Starter rebuild.
I will at least open it up. I priced the OEM Brush holder set @ $133. May see if I can source some brushes locally.

John
2009 K1300GT
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2005 Ocean Blue Blue Wizard
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
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post #9 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 10:01 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I will at least open it up. I priced the OEM Brush holder set @ $133. May see if I can source some brushes locally.
I still have the starter removed from greyc03's LT that was failing. I am sure it is just the brush set but at $133 for the oem as you said, it has been sitting in a box. I can buy a new one or at least a reman one for $149. I have done considerable searching for after market Denso rebuild kits but all seem to only have 2 brushes and not 3 like the LT starter. I have not tried any local auto electric shops yet as i have no immediate need. If you come up with a reasonable source for some brushes, let me know. I would like to rebuild it but not at near the cost of a new one.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #10 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 12:40 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Since you are going to tear down the tranny anyway, it is so much easier to replace all of the seals. My input shaft bearing went bad after the clutch was destroyed. It even destroyed my cover plate as well. Therefore, I decided to replace all of the seals along with some of the bearings.
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post #11 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 2:08 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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I will at least open it up. I priced the OEM Brush holder set @ $133. May see if I can source some brushes locally.
Wow! That is obscene even by BMW standards. I hope you can find an alternate source.

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post #12 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 8:07 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Phil at Phil's Starter & Alternator rebuilt my starter. He is a Bosch trained rebuilder. You can call him at 704-435-2934 for a price on a rebuild or he might have the parts you could buy.
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post #13 of 34 Old May 31st, 2017, 8:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Thanks Dave. I can get a rebuilt from EME for 149 and a new one for 199 so that makes a third option. I have really had no issues with the starter but 100k is 100k so I will at least look at it. I want to go for one more ride and then dump the transmission oil and check the magnet for shiny stuff before I actually go tearing her apart.

John
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
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post #14 of 34 Old Jun 2nd, 2017, 8:36 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Thanks Dave. I can get a rebuilt from EME for 149 and a new one for 199 so that makes a third option. I have really had no issues with the starter but 100k is 100k so I will at least look at it. I want to go for one more ride and then dump the transmission oil and check the magnet for shiny stuff before I actually go tearing her apart.
Got that transmission pulled yet?


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post #15 of 34 Old Jun 3rd, 2017, 8:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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Got that transmission pulled yet?

I am getting ready to take a long ride then drain the oil and look at the magnet. I'll report back on what I find.

OK I could not duplicate the "whine" I heard last weekend. I drained the oil and there was a lot of "gray Fuzz", more than the usual, but when I transferred the fuzz to a paper towel there was a lot of tiny sparkles in it. No big chunks. So I refilled the transmission and will put another 100-200 miles on it and drain it again. It had been 10 k since the last oil change.

Looked at the fuzz under 30x magnification and it appears to be tiny flakes so I guess the bearing is going.
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #16 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 12:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

And to confirm something is definitely going on here is the magnet after only 100 miles today on fresh oil (that was noticeably darker).

Just for fun I am setting up the GoPro to do a time lapse as I tear the old girl down.
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post #17 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 3:55 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
And to confirm something is definitely going on here is the magnet after only 100 miles today on fresh oil (that was noticeably darker).

Just for fun I am setting up the GoPro to do a time lapse as I tear the old girl down.
Great idea on the time lapse. Look forward to seeing it.

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post #18 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 6:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Here are a few stills of what I got done this afternoon. One thing I did find was a missing nut on the left top of the rear sub frame. I have never loosened this one for anything so I was very surprised to see it was missing.

Over all the tear down went smoothly. I had it just on the center stand until all the "stuff" behind the transmission was removed. Then had the boy pull down on the top case as I slid the chock under the front wheel. Next step is to jack the back end up.

There is some oily dirt visible around the junction of the transmission to intermediate flange so something is leaking a little. The slave came out dry (and so was the thrust bearing) but it has over 70 K on it and a replacement from BBY was less than 100. The pressure on the slave indicated I still have a good bit of material on the clutch disc, usually when the disc is worn the slave will be under pressure until just before the bolts let loose. This was only under pressure for 3/8 inch.

All the rear seals were dry in the transmission.
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John
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #19 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 7:50 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

I've had to tighten up the rear sub frame on both of my LT's.

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post #20 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 8:14 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

New thing to check as I have never looked at mine.

Tighten up rear sub frame nuts. Check!

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #21 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 8:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

OK I processed the time lapse - not real good as I used to long an interval (10 seconds) but it is fun to watch.

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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #22 of 34 Old Jun 4th, 2017, 8:50 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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OK I processed the time lapse - not real good as I used to long an interval (10 seconds) but it is fun to watch.
Nice, that is the fastest I have seen you or anyone strip an LT LOL!
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post #23 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2017, 4:30 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

The rust around this rear sub frame bolt is how I noticed the first loose bolt.
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post #24 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2017, 6:49 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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The rust around this rear sub frame bolt is how I noticed the first loose bolt.
Is that the one bolt bmw didn't slather with thread locker?

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post #25 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2017, 2:13 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
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OK I processed the time lapse - not real good as I used to long an interval (10 seconds) but it is fun to watch.

https://youtu.be/T31KELzA8r4
haha.... yeah, just a little on the quick side. Does fit the muzac though

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post #26 of 34 Old Jun 9th, 2017, 6:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Well I finally got the tranny out. Front was very oily dirty but not wet. Input shaft feels a bit rough but I will know more when I open it up Saturday afternoon. Alternator feels very smooth but I will inspect the brushes. I have yet to open the starter but it also feels smooth. Next is the clutch and the intermediate housing to get to the sprag clutch.


UPDATE
The Sprag clutch was pristine so I am almost sorry I pulled the intermediate case. The one I pulled out of Dave Dragons old LT at 100 K + was quite stained and gummy. Quite a difference. But I did soak it just for good measure in Gunk Carb cleaner and it now looks brand new.

The starter needs a new front bearing as the seal is stuck to the nose of the starter and the brushes are half worn. Found a local shop that does Denso starters so I will get the info on parts tomorrow.

The output shaft rear bearing had a partially pressed in shield that was causing some drag on the bearing. I have never replaced that seal on my bike and the only time anyone was in there was back in 2006 when I had the dealer replace the seal under warranty for a leak. Can't believe it had been like that for that long.

The clutch disc was not that worn out at all, it measured 5.43 mm with 4.6 as the wear limit (in contrast my slipping clutch was about 5.2 mm IIRC). The metal parts showed considerable grooving so I am just going with fresh all around. I already have the Seibenrock "better than stock" disc. My local dealer is very slow in getting my parts as I ordered them a week ago last Wednesday.

Second UPDATE

Looks like we can now edit older posts!
I got my injectors back from Mr Injector and they look real nice with new o-rings and pintel caps. He changed out the filter screens too. See the report on flow before and after. Bear in mind I have always used top tier gas (mostly Shell) for all of the 100,000 + miles on these injectors. They were not all flowing the same, but they are now.

Still waiting on additional clutch parts and one bearing for the transmission the the reassembly can begin.
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 Ocean Blue Blue Wizard
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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CCR 06 Braselton CCR 07 Osage Beach CCR 08 Midway
CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #27 of 34 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 7:22 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

OK this is a bump. We can now edit older posts but it does not bring it back into the current area like a reply post does.
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2009 K1300GT
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 Ocean Blue Blue Wizard
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #28 of 34 Old Jun 16th, 2017, 7:45 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Well I finally got the tranny out. Front was very oily dirty but not wet. Input shaft feels a bit rough but I will know more when I open it up Saturday afternoon. Alternator feels very smooth but I will inspect the brushes. I have yet to open the starter but it also feels smooth. Next is the clutch and the intermediate housing to get to the sprag clutch.


UPDATE
The Sprag clutch was pristine so I am almost sorry I pulled the intermediate case. The one I pulled out of Dave Dragons old LT at 100 K + was quite stained and gummy. Quite a difference. But I did soak it just for good measure in Gunk Carb cleaner and it now looks brand new.

The starter needs a new front bearing as the seal is stuck to the nose of the starter and the brushes are half worn. Found a local shop that does Denso starters so I will get the info on parts tomorrow.

The output shaft rear bearing had a partially pressed in shield that was causing some drag on the bearing. I have never replaced that seal on my bike and the only time anyone was in there was back in 2006 when I had the dealer replace the seal under warranty for a leak. Can't believe it had been like that for that long.

The clutch disc was not that worn out at all, it measured 5.43 mm with 4.6 as the wear limit (in contrast my slipping clutch was about 5.2 mm IIRC). The metal parts showed considerable grooving so I am just going with fresh all around. I already have the Seibenrock "better than stock" disc. My local dealer is very slow in getting my parts as I ordered them a week ago last Wednesday.

Second UPDATE

Looks like we can now edit older posts!
I got my injectors back from Mr Injector and they look real nice with new o-rings and pintel caps. He changed out the filter screens too. See the report on flow before and after. Bear in mind I have always used top tier gas (mostly Shell) for all of the 100,000 + miles on these injectors. They were not all flowing the same, but they are now.

Still waiting on additional clutch parts and one bearing for the transmission the the reassembly can begin.
Should purr like a kitten now.
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post #29 of 34 Old Jun 17th, 2017, 7:27 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Second UPDATE

Looks like we can now edit older posts!
I got my injectors back from Mr Injector and they look real nice with new o-rings and pintel caps. He changed out the filter screens too. See the report on flow before and after. Bear in mind I have always used top tier gas (mostly Shell) for all of the 100,000 + miles on these injectors. They were not all flowing the same, but they are now.
On the report, do those injector numbers correlate to cylinder number?

I've never sent out injectors and I'm wondering if there is any reason to map them to the cylinders.

Thanks.

Doug B.
2000 LT purchased July 2013
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post #30 of 34 Old Jun 17th, 2017, 8:29 am
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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On the report, do those injector numbers correlate to cylinder number?

I've never sent out injectors and I'm wondering if there is any reason to map them to the cylinders.

Thanks.
I would think that when they come back they are all going to be pretty much the same as the report shows so unless you wanted to track them like #2 being off from the rest should you send them out again and want to see if it was off more than the others, it wouldn't matter where they came from or went back in as they are all now equally calibrated. It is on my winter list of things to do so nice to see how that works.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #31 of 34 Old Jun 17th, 2017, 8:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

Yeah Gordon pretty well summed it up. I did not ID the injectors when I sent them so it was just a random number assigned for the report and the injectors were not numbered when he returned them. I don't see why you would want to map them anyway unless you wanted to see how the plugs were affected. I'm just happy they are all the same again.

I got the intermediate case back on today and installed the clutch housing. Now all I need is the clutch parts and the last bearing for the transmission. Then I can really start putting the old girl back together again.

We went to Granny Fishes House for lunch on the GT today and Jean just does not like that seat at all!!!

She wants the LT back. 6 more working days until retirement!!!
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post #32 of 34 Old Jun 17th, 2017, 8:39 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

John, are you replacing all 4 end bearings? I sourced a set off Amazon, both SKF and Nachie so I can replace all of them when I take it apart. Interested in how much trouble it is to get them off and on again.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #33 of 34 Old Jun 19th, 2017, 6:06 pm
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

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John, are you replacing all 4 end bearings? I sourced a set off Amazon, both SKF and Nachie so I can replace all of them when I take it apart. Interested in how much trouble it is to get them off and on again.
Yes, quoting myself as I watched Kirks video again and there are 6 bearings not 4 so my question is modified. Are you replacing all 6 bearings or just the one on the end of the input shaft?

Luckily, there are 4 bearings all the same on the intermediate and output shafts and the bearings I ordered were in a lot of 4 so I am covered should i want to replace all of them.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #34 of 34 Old Jun 19th, 2017, 7:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like I'm goin' in again!

The only one that is stressed badly is the front input shaft bearing. High torque loads on the shaft, especially in the lower gears, makes the shaft want to climb the adjacent gear. This puts a heavy side load on this rather small bearing. I am changing out the rear output shaft bearing because the shield was pressed into the race. Probably not an issue as it was done by a dealer at 18K under warranty when he changed out the seal. But I drilled a hole to facilitate removal of the damaged shield and I drilled into the race cage. Just cheap insurance.

I cleaned the throttle bodies today of 102 K worth of gunk, I didn't clean them during the last clutch job @ 40 K. They were very dirty but I was surprised that the breather tube was intact with no leaks. I pressurized it and sealed it off in the TBs and immersed in water and there were no bubbles. I am leaving it in place. Could be a testament to Mobil 1 as that is all I have used. The sprag clutch was also pristine, no gum deposits but I cleaned it anyway.
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CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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