I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 2:47 pm Thread Starter
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I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

I've had my K12LT (2003) since 2007 when it was a present to myself upon my retirement from the Army. And it'd been a delight as long as I was able to ride it confidently.

But then I did my second retirement from my University position, turning in over 2500 hundred hours of sick leave (to be used by folks who had depleted their own accounts for good and sufficient reasons, since I couldn't cash them out myself) and then started to have a series of events that incrementally began to restrict my riding--and my confidence in my ability to ride.

But the K12 is still there, and it has come time to renew the registration. In Texas, you need a "safety inspection" before you can renew the registration; it's basically a test of the brake lights, etc., along with a stopping test. The bike is up for renewal in April, and so I thought I'd get ahead of the game.

Now it was last inspected in March of 2016; at that time, it passed without a problem but when I'd taken it to the inspection station, the battery was weak, requiring a bump start before I could take it home. And so I purchased and installed both a new glassmat battery and a top-end trickle charger.

So in a fit of enthusiasm (I'd gotten a COPD diagnosis and then an inhaler which seemed to address all of the insidious symptoms which had been curtailing my activities) I decided to fire up the bike and take it to the inspection station.

But while the engine turned over vigorously, it never gave so much as a pop to indicate that it was firing. It had started up fine after I had installed the new battery, so I I don't think I screwed that up. I will confess that (l) the inspection sheet from last year revealed that the bike had only traveled 14 miles since that time last March and (2) I'd left less than a quarter-tank of gas in it at that point. So I've probably screwed up somewhere bigtime.

So the bike is back on the charger; I've poured 3 gallons of high-octane into the tank along with a full bottle of Techron. While I can't tell for sure (the pump on this bike is a lot quieter than those on my K75 and the K11s) I think the pump is working.

So I'll let the battery get fully charged and the Techron and new gas an opportunity to infuse themselves into the fuel mixture and try again tomorrow.

Any other ideas?

Larry Johnson
El Paso Texas
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post #2 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 2:54 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

I'm far from an expert but if the tank was mostly empty for a long time the hoses in the tank may have dried out and cracked.

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2009 K1200LT

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post #3 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 3:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Thanks. That'll be on my list of things to check. At the moment, I'm just hoping that there's some kind of clogging in the fuel system that the Techron, cycling through multiple start attempts, will dislodge....
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post #4 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 3:34 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

There are guys on this board who are far more technical than me. But, if I remember correctly, you can diagnose a ruptured fuel line in the tank by turning on the ignition and, while the fuel pump is running, shine a light in the tank. If you see the fuel moving around, there is a rupture and the line will need to be replaced.

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post #5 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 3:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Thanks. I'll add that to the list of checks to be performed. I may have to work around the flapper which on this bike hasn't been removed.

Larry
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post #6 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 4:19 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Some times a wire is left off the positive terminal during a battery change, there are several so double check that as well.

John
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post #7 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 4:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Among faulty memories of a long-past virility, I seem to remember that there was what I thought to be a minor connection that I addressed. So this will be high on the priority list for troubleshooting the problem. Again, thanks for your helpful responses.

Now if someone could point me to the fountain of youth which would permit me to ride again as I once did...

Thanks.

Larry
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post #8 of 23 Old Mar 18th, 2017, 9:49 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

My best idea is to thank you for your service and salute you for your generosity in donating so much leave time to others. Hope you get to enjoy the bike once you've gotten through the fuel issue.

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post #9 of 23 Old Mar 24th, 2017, 4:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

So this old snail is doing God's work really, really slowly. Did lift the lid and look--there are two major connections to the positive post and then a third one (the one I repaired) with a 15A fuse in it; I suspect it's probably a line to the Corbin heated seats, but haven't checked it.
But then I have a smart-mouthed (but smart) son (he built from scratch his own Harley cruiser replica) and he was teasing me that I'd probably just left the kill switch in the off position. That got me excited enough to go out and check, but while turning/not firing when the kill switch was in the off position was a characteristic behavior of other bike makes, on this one if either the kill switch is off or the sidestand is down, nothing--at all happens.

So my question is this: is there some circuit where if there is no power the bike will turn over but not fire? (And this doesn't even sputter or smell or anything). And I can't hear if the fuel pump kicks in or not because the brake servos make too much noise in those first few moments to tell...

But this is not urgent; I can always fill time by deciding what I want my kids to say in my obituary.
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post #10 of 23 Old Mar 24th, 2017, 5:19 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

I am not familiar with your bike but is it possible to remove a spark plug to see if there is a spark when cranking? That could eliminate the ignition end of it. And if you cranked with a plug out I would suspect the smell of fuel too, Are there fuses on the bike?
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post #11 of 23 Old Mar 24th, 2017, 6:12 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Most often it is fuel delivery, I have yet to see a spark failure here in 12 years. Hoses in the tank can spring a leak or even pop off.

That is where I would look first. Easy to check for fuel pressure (with out regard to actual measurement) by accessing the the fuel line quick disconnects. They have an internal shut off when disconnected and a turn of the key a few times will build up enough pressure. Then you can press the release and see if you get a squirt. Be aware of the fire hazard and have a rag to catch fuel.

The pressure line is indicated in the photo and has a white protrusion at the end, press that in to release any built up pressure into a catch rag. You will know if the pump/hoses are working correctly.
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John
2009 K1300GT
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 Ocean Blue Blue Wizard
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN


CCR 06 Braselton CCR 07 Osage Beach CCR 08 Midway
CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #12 of 23 Old Mar 26th, 2017, 5:07 am
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

If is anything to do with the internals of the tank, I can recommend these people for price and efficiency.

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/pr...k-231k1200.htm

Good luck
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post #13 of 23 Old Mar 27th, 2017, 2:04 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by powwow View Post
There are guys on this board who are far more technical than me. But, if I remember correctly, you can diagnose a ruptured fuel line in the tank by turning on the ignition and, while the fuel pump is running, shine a light in the tank. If you see the fuel moving around, there is a rupture and the line will need to be replaced.
Just don't strike a match to inspect the . . . .
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post #14 of 23 Old Mar 27th, 2017, 6:30 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljjohns View Post
...
.....

So my question is this: is there some circuit where if there is no power the bike will turn over but not fire? (And this doesn't even sputter or smell or anything). And I can't hear if the fuel pump kicks in or not because the brake servos make too much noise in those first few moments to tell...
Besides the note from JZEILER that is the most probable (lack of fuel pressure caused by damage / disconnect hose inside fuel tank) there are 2 other cases where the starter will turn, but nothing will happen (no firing event , no injectors event).
These are much less probable, so you should ALWAYS investigate the hoses inside tank first.
1) System does not see NEUTRAL light signal, side-stand is Down, and you pull the clutch lever (starter engages, but nothing will fire)
2) You have used GS911 to set system in mode to check Hall-sensor ignition trigger, BUT failed to complete the procedure to the end.


BY THE WAY, to help troubleshoot fuel-pump priming after ignition ON, always do it like this:
A) Ignition OFF, Kill switch to NO-START (left or right side), side-stand UP, Neutral
B) Turn Ignition ON, wait 6 seconds (you will hear the ABS servos self check for 2002+ models)
C) Move kill switch to CENTER position - immediately you should hear fuel pump priming for 2 secs.
D) In addition to pump priming, you should see the RED engine temp warning on dash (before starting engine).
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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 91,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #15 of 23 Old Mar 28th, 2017, 6:34 am
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

After reading Sailors's post I would suggest to try to start the bike with:
side
  • stand fully up,
  • and gearbox in neutral,
  • and clutch
lever pulled.
Good luck
Bruno

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post #16 of 23 Old Apr 1st, 2017, 5:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

The snail continues to do God's work slowly: followed others' advice and let the ABS system sort itself out with the kill switch in the off position and then listened--first just from outside and then with the fuel cap off--but no joyful sound.

So now the snail has to get down on his aged knees--after clearing space in the garage--to strip off the plastic and get to the fuel tank. I am not looking forward to that, and so will probably procrastinate as much as I can.

But since I've found out that Texas will renew a registration that has lapsed for an indefinite amount of months/years as long as the bike hasn't been ticketed for something since it lapsed, I can take my time. I just need to make note of the advice I've been given so that my son and putative heir can continue to pursue the issue, given the pace at which I work.

Thanks again to all who have chimed in.

Larry Johnson
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post #17 of 23 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 2:54 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

On every bike in my experience, the kill switch would be the culprit. Since it doesn't seem to be that, I'd look at the sidestand switch. On many bikes, the switch gets dirty and sometimes corroded.

Chris
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post #18 of 23 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 3:18 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljjohns View Post
The snail continues to do God's work slowly: followed others' advice and let the ABS system sort itself out with the kill switch in the off position and then listened--first just from outside and then with the fuel cap off--but no joyful sound.

So now the snail has to get down on his aged knees--after clearing space in the garage--to strip off the plastic and get to the fuel tank. I am not looking forward to that, and so will probably procrastinate as much as I can.

But since I've found out that Texas will renew a registration that has lapsed for an indefinite amount of months/years as long as the bike hasn't been ticketed for something since it lapsed, I can take my time. I just need to make note of the advice I've been given so that my son and putative heir can continue to pursue the issue, given the pace at which I work.

Thanks again to all who have chimed in.

Larry Johnson
It does sound like possibly an interlock issue. In addition to the procedure Sailor mentioned, try moving the reverse knob forward and backward a little and see if it primes and the temp light comes on. It doesn't have to go into reverse, just try and force the switches to make contact. One friend has an LT where he has to hold the reverse knob forward to start the bike as he slightly damaged the switches during a clutch replacement.

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post #19 of 23 Old Apr 14th, 2017, 3:27 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

So I'm still doing my retired professor thing which largely entails reflection on phenomena without any necessary action from such reflections.

Or, in other words, I really, really don't want to have to take off the Tupperware, keep track of the fasteners and generally consume time (and muscle aches) in the process.

So I have one other question: after installing the new battery, it is highly possible that I didn't do the required magic to reset the TPS. Could that failure have caused, in turn, the failure of any fuel hitting the cylinders?

Just hoping against hope

Larry Johnson
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post #20 of 23 Old Apr 14th, 2017, 8:16 pm
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

TPS reset is not essential but it helps. I forgot to do it when mine was down for 2 weeks for the clutch job and it ran just fine. ALL of the interlocks that prevent starting disable the starter motor and it will not crank at all so if it is cranking and not starting you are missing fuel or spark, it is NOT one of the interlocks.

John had mentioned turning on the key and let all the servo stuff finish, then cycle the kill switch back an forth. You will get the 1 second fuel pump run and should be able to hear it each time the kill switch is moved. Then you can eliminate that. Next open the fuel cap and sine a light in the hole looking to the rear and cycle the kill switch. There should little to no movement of fuel in the tank. If you see movement you have a hose loose in the tank.

John
2009 K1300GT
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 Ocean Blue Blue Wizard
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN


CCR 06 Braselton CCR 07 Osage Beach CCR 08 Midway
CCR 09 Rapid City CCR 10 Killington, VT,CCR 11 Boise, CCR 12 Duluth
CCR 2013 Bend, CCR 2014 Backyard! CCR 2015 Couer d'Alene

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post #21 of 23 Old Apr 15th, 2017, 7:35 am Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Thanks, John

Larry
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post #22 of 23 Old Apr 27th, 2017, 3:32 am
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

dear Ijjohns I have k1200lt 1999 had problem starting after replacement of radio this year turned engine over no problem just no start. after looking around thinking i had taken out a fuse found white power coating on pins in multi-conecters by bottom of tank ,cleaned with switch cleaner it then started no problem so i went round them all and cleaned the lot all ok now hope maybe this helps andy from england
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post #23 of 23 Old Apr 27th, 2017, 7:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: I'd be embarrassed but I'm too old...

Thanks, Andy.
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