Tires questions - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 38 Old Jan 7th, 2017, 6:02 pm Thread Starter
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Tires questions

Hello,

This is about a 1999 KLT.

I am in need to replace the front tire which right now is a Metz 880 120/17/70 Bias Ply 58 V

I can replace it with the same tire or the new & improved 888 Metz which is actually less expensive & suppose to give better performance & mileage.

It has a 58 H rating.....not 58 V as the 880 tire.

Would this be a tire that is suitable for my bike ? Any one has experience with this tire ?

The other option (Maybe) is this tire:

Avon Roadrider AM26 Front Tire 120/70-17 TL (58V) 90000000655 | eBay

It too has a 58 V rating and is Bias Ply. Would this work & how does it compare to the Metz tires?

The 2nd question is about the rear tire:

I don't need a replacement right now but thinking ahead.

I ran the rear 880 Metz with excellent results but recently replaced it with the Bridgestone Bias ply 020 Battalax.

When I am due for a replacement, I am thinking about this tire:

http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tube...wBnRoCvgHw_wcB

The Shinko tire has a 79 H rating (Not V as the Bridgestone & the Metz) for a much better price. $107 shipped.

I never used Shinko tires....Any advice ? ?? How long do they last compared to the Metz 880 & Bridgestone?

And is there significant difference between 79 H and 79 V for this Particular bike?

Thanks so much.
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post #2 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 2:37 am
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Re: Tires questions

I'm using the Shinko tire on my LT now. I have no complaints about the tire but only have a couple thousand miles on it so far, so I can't say how long it will last. But read this guy's review,

TIRE REVIEW: Shinko 777 H.D. rear / IRC RX-01 front

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post #3 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 3:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by azccj View Post
I'm using the Shinko tire on my LT now. I have no complaints about the tire but only have a couple thousand miles on it so far, so I can't say how long it will last. But read this guy's review,

TIRE REVIEW: Shinko 777 H.D. rear / IRC RX-01 front
So no issues with the tire not being able to handle the weight/size of the bike especially with a passenger ?

Or in handling around corners or high speed ?

I assume you have the Shinko on the Rear?

Thanks.
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post #4 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 11:59 am
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Re: Tires questions

There are folks here that go with Avon roadrider out front. And a Bridgestone BT020 on the back with good results. Or your choice Shinko, Metz. on back. The Avon supposedly gets better mileage.

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post #5 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 7:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by james216 View Post
There are folks here that go with Avon roadrider out front. And a Bridgestone BT020 on the back with good results. Or your choice Shinko, Metz. on back. The Avon supposedly gets better mileage.
These posts gets more and more confusing as it seems all of it is based on opinions and not facts. I've been told by many people that Avons are more grippy but offer much less mileage (don't last as long as the Metz tires), but now you are saying just the opposite.

For me it gets very expensive to buy a tire if it is not going to last and have to replace it within few months.
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post #6 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 10:18 pm
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Re: Tires questions

Well. That I can clarify for you. Bias are what many here run. I run radials. I had Metzelers on the LT when I first got it. I couldn't wait to get them off. They scared me in wet conditions. Terrible. Replaced with Dunlop Roadsmart 2's(Which are radials) I had just had bought the bike. And didn't know about the need for a reinforced sidewall 79v needed on the back. But wore those down to nothing without incident. Got 9k out of them. They were very sticky tires. Then. I figured. I'd go with the proper rated rear tire. So went with a set of Avon storm 2 ultras. Loved them. Wore those out. Got about 9-10K out of them. Now. I have the Avon storm 3dxm's So far. I'm happy with them. Only got under 3K on them. So to soon to know life span. It's my personal preference. And emphasis on personal that I would rather spend more for radials. And give up long mileage for wet traction. If I get 8-10 K out of a set. And I'm ok with that.If I confused you. Sorry. Bias tire will last longer. Average 12K or so miles. Those who run the Avon Roadrider in front say the traction is better I believe than a metz. But lasts longer than a front Bridgestone. The LT is famous for eating front tires. All I can tell you is this.. If I had to run bias, And couldn't run radials. I would run the Avon roadrider in front. And a Bridgestone BT020 on the back. To me. That I believe would offer the best combo of mileage & traction. My personal experience with Metzelers wasn't good . But that's my opinion.

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post #7 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 10:56 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
So no issues with the tire not being able to handle the weight/size of the bike especially with a passenger ?

Or in handling around corners or high speed ?

I assume you have the Shinko on the Rear?

Thanks.
I've had no issues at all with the Shinko rear tire. If I get 9-10K miles out of the rear then I will definitely mount another Shinko.

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post #8 of 38 Old Jan 8th, 2017, 11:17 pm
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Re: Tires questions

let me offer you another option which is working well for me on both the GT & now the LT (front only)... not sure how price compares but great tyre for the LT front so far.
PR4 GT front on the LT

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post #9 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 12:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Hello,

This is about a 1999 KLT.

I am in need to replace the front tire which right now is a Metz 880 120/17/70 Bias Ply 58 V

I can replace it with the same tire or the new & improved 888 Metz which is actually less expensive & suppose to give better performance & mileage.

It has a 58 H rating.....not 58 V as the 880 tire.

Would this be a tire that is suitable for my bike ? Any one has experience with this tire ?

The other option (Maybe) is this tire:

Avon Roadrider AM26 Front Tire 120/70-17 TL (58V) 90000000655 | eBay

It too has a 58 V rating and is Bias Ply. Would this work & how does it compare to the Metz tires?

The 2nd question is about the rear tire:

I don't need a replacement right now but thinking ahead.

I ran the rear 880 Metz with excellent results but recently replaced it with the Bridgestone Bias ply 020 Battalax.

When I am due for a replacement, I am thinking about this tire:

http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tube...wBnRoCvgHw_wcB

The Shinko tire has a 79 H rating (Not V as the Bridgestone & the Metz) for a much better price. $107 shipped.

I never used Shinko tires....Any advice ? ?? How long do they last compared to the Metz 880 & Bridgestone?

And is there significant difference between 79 H and 79 V for this Particular bike?

Thanks so much.
The V rating is good for 150 mph, H rating for 120 mph. For me H rating is sufficient. The 58 is the weight rating.
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post #10 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 1:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by cws View Post
let me offer you another option which is working well for me on both the GT & now the LT (front only)... not sure how price compares but great tyre for the LT front so far.
PR4 GT front on the LT
I just looked at the link you sent.

It looks like a great tire, same price as the Metz front. It says it is W rated tire & the LT calls for a V rated tire and the V from all of what I seen is Higher speed rating than the W and not the other way around as stated.

Does this michlilin have soft or rigid sidewalls ? The LT would need a very rigid sidewalls to handle the weight and braking.

Maybe I am wrong, the W rating is higher than a V rating.

Last edited by BMW_forever; Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:15 am. Reason: Correction
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post #11 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 1:49 am
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
I just looked at the link you sent.

It looks like a great tire, same price as the Metz front. It says it is W rated tire & the LT calls for a V rated tire and the V from all of what I seen is Higher speed rating than the W and not the other way around as stated.

Does this michlilin have soft or rigid sidewalls ? The LT would need a very rigid sidewalls to handle the weight and braking.

Maybe I am wrong, the W rating is higher than a V rating.
yup, I thoroughly checked it out before going down that path...
Tyre Speed Rating - Ratings Explained | Blackcircles.com
and I ran the PR4GT tyres for over 12 months on my K12GT before putting one on the LT front.... very impressed with them, perfect option for the LT front (not the rear).

The PR4GT is the heavy duty spec version of the tyre (as opposed to the standard PR4), just a shame they don't make one that suits the rear as well!

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post #12 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 8:53 am
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Re: Tires questions

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The V rating is good for 150 mph, H rating for 120 mph. For me H rating is sufficient. The 58 is the weight rating.
What most don't realize is that the speed rating represents multiple attibutes. A higher speed tire needs additional strength, to withstand the force that wants to fling the tire apart at high speed. It also needs to handle heat better which may mean stiffer sidewalls for less flex or different compositions that generate less heat as they flex. It also will hit bumps faster and needs appropriate frequency response to disturbances to avoid nasty resonances. Many vehicles have tire speed ratings well above their top speed, let alone any reasonable cruise speed they could ever be expected to maintain. Do you ever ask yourself why? If you don't know the answer for your particular vehicle, selecting a lower speed rated tire, just because you will never ride that fast, could be a fatal mistake.

I'm retired after 32 years of engineering and R&D at a Fortune 500 company (nothing to do with tires) and I know how many such decisions are made by product designers. Often any given part rating is selected, not because the rating is needed directly, but because it is a surrogate for another characteristic that is important. To the poster wanting facts rather than opinion, the only facts are that only a couple tire makers produce tires designed for use on the LT, especially the 2005 and later models. Bottom line, if the tire maker doesn't list the LT in their fitment chart or they won't send you an email or written letter clearly stating that a given tire is OK for the LT, then it is not OK for use on the LT. Them's the facts. All else is speculation and you are assuming all risk for what happens on the road.

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post #13 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 10:00 am
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Re: Tires questions

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What most don't realize is that the speed rating represents multiple attibutes. A higher speed tire needs additional strength, to withstand the force that wants to fling the tire apart at high speed. It also needs to handle heat better which may mean stiffer sidewalls for less flex or different compositions that generate less heat as they flex. It also will hit bumps faster and needs appropriate frequency response to disturbances to avoid nasty resonances. Many vehicles have tire speed ratings well above their top speed, let alone any reasonable cruise speed they could ever be expected to maintain. Do you ever ask yourself why? If you don't know the answer for your particular vehicle, selecting a lower speed rated tire, just because you will never ride that fast, could be a fatal mistake.

I'm retired after 32 years of engineering and R&D at a Fortune 500 company (nothing to do with tires) and I know how many such decisions are made by product designers. Often any given part rating is selected, not because the rating is needed directly, but because it is a surrogate for another characteristic that is important. To the poster wanting facts rather than opinion, the only facts are that only a couple tire makers produce tires designed for use on the LT, especially the 2005 and later models. Bottom line, if the tire maker doesn't list the LT in their fitment chart or they won't send you an email or written letter clearly stating that a given tire is OK for the LT, then it is not OK for use on the LT. Them's the facts. All else is speculation and you are assuming all risk for what happens on the road.
Since I am an electrical engineer, not a tire engineer, let me try a simpler analogy and one I am more familiar with. Most of us are familiar with standard electrical fuses. Let's suppose you have some device that is rated up to 10 amps and it blows its internal fuse. You find it has a 20 amp rated fuse inside and the manufacturer specifies a 20 amp fuse even though the device itself is only rated for 10 amps. Since you never plan to run more than 7 amps through the device, you should be able to replace the blown fuse with a 10 amp fuse, right? Please post your answer.

Hopefully, everyone can see the analogy above to putting a tire rated for say 149 mph (V) on a bike with a 130 mph top speed (same as H rated tire), but which the user never plans to ride faster than say 100 mph.

I will chime in with the "rest of the story" after a few opinions are posted as to whether the 10 amp fuse will work in the scenario above.

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post #14 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 10:23 am
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Re: Tires questions

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Since I am an electrical engineer, not a tire engineer, let me try a simpler analogy and one I am more familiar with. Most of us are familiar with standard electrical fuses. Let's suppose you have some device that is rated up to 10 amps and it blows its internal fuse. You find it has a 20 amp rated fuse inside and the manufacturer specifies a 20 amp fuse even though the device itself is only rated for 10 amps. Since you never plan to run more than 7 amps through the device, you should be able to replace the blown fuse with a 10 amp fuse, right? Please post your answer.

Hopefully, everyone can see the analogy above to putting a tire rated for say 149 mph (V) on a bike with a 130 mph top speed (same as H rated tire), but which the user never plans to ride faster than say 100 mph.

I will chime in with the "rest of the story" after a few opinions are posted as to whether the 10 amp fuse will work in the scenario above.
Many electronic devices have a surge at start up before they come to a normal steady sate. Motors draw much more at start than when running. Electronics having capacitors to charge draw heavily until they reach a charged state. This surge is a normal occurring condition far beyond the normal operating range of these devices so that 10A fuse would likely blow at power on depending on the specific device. Not an EE but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
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post #15 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 12:55 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Many electronic devices have a surge at start up before they come to a normal steady sate. Motors draw much more at start than when running. Electronics having capacitors to charge draw heavily until they reach a charged state. This surge is a normal occurring condition far beyond the normal operating range of these devices so that 10A fuse would likely blow at power on depending on the specific device. Not an EE but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
You raise a good point, but this is typically addressed by using a slow blow fuse or circuit breaker rather than by over rating the fuse. Over rating to address transients will compromise protection during steady state over current conditions.

I will further qualify my scenario to say that the current will never exceed 7 amps. No transients to worry about.

You get an "A" for effort, however, still not the issue I am looking at.

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post #16 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 3:12 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
You raise a good point, but this is typically addressed by using a slow blow fuse or circuit breaker rather than by over rating the fuse. Over rating to address transients will compromise protection during steady state over current conditions.

I will further qualify my scenario to say that the current will never exceed 7 amps. No transients to worry about.

You get an "A" for effort, however, still not the issue I am looking at.
Well, if the current will never exceed 7A then a 10A fuse will certainly work unless there is something about the consistent utilization being that close to 100% utilization and suffering some sort of failure due to a fatigue factor.

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post #17 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 5:13 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Well, if the current will never exceed 7A then a 10A fuse will certainly work unless there is something about the consistent utilization being that close to 100% utilization and suffering some sort of failure due to a fatigue factor.
It is subtle, but I can guarantee you that in my hypothetical device, 7A of current will blow a 10 A fuse and a higher capacity fuse is necessary for a good reason. Just as a V rated tire is needed for an only H speed capable LT.

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post #18 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 5:32 pm
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Re: Tires questions

i got alot of crap for not getting a 79 rear... u have to remember bmw spec's the tires on what the worst types of conditions the bike may see and what tires where available at the time. almost 20yrs ago. motorcycle tires have come along way since then. another example most race bikes were spec'd 530 chains but chain tech has come along way and its very normal to swap to 520 chains with zero problems . have you ever seen the carnage from high speed chain failure?

my 04 rc51 came new with a 190/50 17 rear most racer's took those off and put on a 190/55 or even 180/55 tire for better handling for road and track use. change the factory ride height affecting factory geometry ect ect

if you think your gonna die by not getting the correct oem tire then get the factory tire by all means.........
just giving you something else to consider
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post #19 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 5:45 pm
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Re: Tires questions

While they don't state anything about the electrical capacity of a tyre, Bridgestone would seem to know something about speed ratings
Understanding Motorcycle Tyre Speed Ratings

or Michelin (speed ratings and load index)
Speed and load index | Michelin Motorcycle Tyres Australia


its not that hard to look up accurate info.


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post #20 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 6:05 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Well, if the current will never exceed 7A then a 10A fuse will certainly work unless there is something about the consistent utilization being that close to 100% utilization and suffering some sort of failure due to a fatigue factor.
Hint: http://m.littelfuse.com/~/media/file...p_derating.pdf

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post #21 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 6:10 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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While they don't state anything about the electrical capacity of a tyre, Bridgestone would seem to know something about speed ratings
Understanding Motorcycle Tyre Speed Ratings

or Michelin (speed ratings and load index)
Speed and load index | Michelin Motorcycle Tyres Australia


its not that hard to look up accurate info.

You prove my point well. Read what Bridgestone says:
"When purchasing or replacing speed-rated tyres, you should always follow the motorcycle manufacturer's recommendations, if any, concerning the use of speed-rated tyres and ensure that you are familiar with the speed markings of the tyres that you buy."

Does it say "feel free to use a lower speed rated tire if you don't plan to ride fast?"
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post #22 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 6:39 pm
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Re: Tires questions

Voyager, not sure what you are getting at here, but selectively choosing one paragraph and ignoring the next doesn't add value IMHO..
Bridgestone also say:

"To avoid reducing the speed capability of the motorcycle, replace a speed-rated tyre only with another tyre having at least the same speed rating. IMPORTANT: It is the "top speed" of the "slowest" tyre on the vehicle which defines the maximum speed at which you should ride and which, if exceeded, risks tyre failure."

The OP was discussing suitable tyres for his LT, and he's been given several options to think about.
Some posters were incorrectly reporting that a W rating was slower than a V rating, which according to the information provided is incorrect.
It's his choice, I made mine and I'm happy with it. John Z has stated he'd also go down the same rabbit-hole... if a tyre meets (or betters) the OEM spec then its suitable.





hmm.. OK, maybe you are referring to fatbob's comment about accepting a speed under-rated tyre cause "it's sufficient"... the electrical comparisons throw it all off-track.

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post #23 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 7:52 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
It is subtle, but I can guarantee you that in my hypothetical device, 7A of current will blow a 10 A fuse and a higher capacity fuse is necessary for a good reason. Just as a V rated tire is needed for an only H speed capable LT.
I see it. Higher temperature will result in the fuse blowing at lower than rated current. Just as riding on a lower than recommended rated tire can have disastrous consequences if riding in, say, Phoenix.


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post #24 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 9:27 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Voyager, not sure what you are getting at here, but selectively choosing one paragraph and ignoring the next doesn't add value IMHO..
Bridgestone also say:

"To avoid reducing the speed capability of the motorcycle, replace a speed-rated tyre only with another tyre having at least the same speed rating. IMPORTANT: It is the "top speed" of the "slowest" tyre on the vehicle which defines the maximum speed at which you should ride and which, if exceeded, risks tyre failure."

The OP was discussing suitable tyres for his LT, and he's been given several options to think about.
Some posters were incorrectly reporting that a W rating was slower than a V rating, which according to the information provided is incorrect.
It's his choice, I made mine and I'm happy with it. John Z has stated he'd also go down the same rabbit-hole... if a tyre meets (or betters) the OEM spec then its suitable.





hmm.. OK, maybe you are referring to fatbob's comment about accepting a speed under-rated tyre cause "it's sufficient"... the electrical comparisons throw it all off-track.
The text at the link wasn't all that long and I saw no need to post it in its entirety. I posted the most important part and the one that trumps all others.

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post #25 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 9:56 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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I see it. Higher temperature will result in the fuse blowing at lower than rated current. Just as riding on a lower than recommended rated tire can have disastrous consequences if riding in, say, Phoenix.
Yes, you got the tree, but you are missing the forest. My point is that a given set of attributes may be selected for reasons not obvious from the attributes taken in isolation. There is no published value for tire stiffness or dynamic response. I am speculating, but given that BMW moved away from radials in the later models, I am suspecting they found a harmonic interaction issue between the radials and the suspension (aka tank slapper). They likely picked a tire with a combination of load rating, speed ratng, and construction (bias ply with REINF sidewalls) to avoid a nasty dynamic condition.

Sure, tire makers could make a range of tires in each load and speed rating with different stiffness values, but that just increases costs, when the same thing can be accomplished by picking a tire that has more load or speed capability than "needed" for a given bike in order to get another needed characteristic.

Just as fuse makers don't make a range of 10 amp fuses for 25, 50, 75 and 100 degrees C, they give you the design rules needed for the engineer to pick an appropriate fuse by derating for temperature as the application dictates. I strongly suspect the same for tires, but the attribute may be dynamic response rather than something simple like temperature.

However, as I have often said before, it is your neck, not mine. I am simply trying to educate folks that selecting tires isn't as simple as looking up load range and speed rating. Having said that, I am done wasting my time trying to teach those who refuse to learn.
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post #26 of 38 Old Jan 9th, 2017, 10:21 pm
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Re: Tires questions

Just to clarify, I was agreeing entirely with you.

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post #27 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 2:31 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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You raise a good point, but this is typically addressed by using a slow blow fuse or circuit breaker rather than by over rating the fuse. Over rating to address transients will compromise protection during steady state over current conditions.

I will further qualify my scenario to say that the current will never exceed 7 amps. No transients to worry about.

You get an "A" for effort, however, still not the issue I am looking at.
From what I remember from my Electronics days, if you use a large fuse then you compromise protection since it will take double the current to blow that 20 A fuse than the 10 A fuse, meanwhile many components can go up in smoke before this 20A fuse offers any protection. I would use the 10 A fuse.
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post #28 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 2:37 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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You prove my point well. Read what Bridgestone says:
"When purchasing or replacing speed-rated tyres, you should always follow the motorcycle manufacturer's recommendations, if any, concerning the use of speed-rated tyres and ensure that you are familiar with the speed markings of the tyres that you buy."

Does it say "feel free to use a lower speed rated tire if you don't plan to ride fast?"
You also have to remember that American companies need to protect themselves legally from sue happy society thus they more than likely specified a tire that is much over rated for the bike....just a thought.
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post #29 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 2:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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The text at the link wasn't all that long and I saw no need to post it in its entirety. I posted the most important part and the one that trumps all others.

Ok so based on that has been said, is this a good tire for the 1999 LT ?

https://www.2wheel.com/avon-tyres-ro...e.html#q-and-a

It is Bias Ply, has 58 V rating. 120/70V-17 and is a high performance tire. It must be new because I've never seen it before. And the price is excellent too.

I assume this tire can handle the LT bike ??

Thank you.
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post #30 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 7:41 am
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Ok so based on that has been said, is this a good tire for the 1999 LT ?

https://www.2wheel.com/avon-tyres-ro...e.html#q-and-a

It is Bias Ply, has 58 V rating. 120/70V-17 and is a high performance tire. It must be new because I've never seen it before. And the price is excellent too.

I assume this tire can handle the LT bike ??

Thank you.
the 120/70/17 is a common size and if it has 58 load rating (58 load rating is around 520lbs with the bike always at that load 100% of the time) it should work. but being a performance tire dont expect to get 20k miles out of it. the installed profile of the tire might be different and more sporty and affect the handling good/or bad . no 2 tire brands in the same size have the exact same profile so you just have to try it and see if you like it.

and keep a eye on how its wearing and the 58 rating is based on the bike being at max load i think the LT has around 480lbs rating. to me the front is more important then the rear as far as handling and grip and tire pressure is very important in the life of the tire and the handling/grip. so you just have to try it everybody is different you may love the feel of the tire and i may hate it ect
good luck and report back on how you like the tire

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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Ok so based on that has been said, is this a good tire for the 1999 LT ?

https://www.2wheel.com/avon-tyres-ro...e.html#q-and-a

It is Bias Ply, has 58 V rating. 120/70V-17 and is a high performance tire. It must be new because I've never seen it before. And the price is excellent too.

I assume this tire can handle the LT bike ??

Thank you.
I know 1 person who is running a BT-020 on the rear and the Avon Roadrider AM26 on the front. He likes how it handles. I bought one based on his opinion but have less than a mile on them as I discovered my new rotors on my spare front rim were warped and causing brake issues so I don't have enough mileage on it to form an opinion. It is properly rated with a 58V though and i have heard others mention running them. As stated, you might like it or hate it but it will work on the LT.

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post #32 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 9:52 am
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
From what I remember from my Electronics days, if you use a large fuse then you compromise protection since it will take double the current to blow that 20 A fuse than the 10 A fuse, meanwhile many components can go up in smoke before this 20A fuse offers any protection. I would use the 10 A fuse.
That is because you know only part of the story. Exactly like folks who think load range and speed rating are the whole story in regards to proper tire selection.

Fuses don't open because of current. They open because of heat. The intent is that the heat be I^2R, but the reality is that the fuse doesn't know or care where the heat comes from. If my hypothetical device has a normal operating temperature of 150 C, trust me, a typical 10 A fuse will not carry 10 amps for more than a few milliseconds.

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post #33 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 10:04 am
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Ok so based on that has been said, is this a good tire for the 1999 LT ?

https://www.2wheel.com/avon-tyres-ro...e.html#q-and-a

It is Bias Ply, has 58 V rating. 120/70V-17 and is a high performance tire. It must be new because I've never seen it before. And the price is excellent too.

I assume this tire can handle the LT bike ??

Thank you.
I am not very familiar with the pre-2005 models. I don't know if they came factory equipped with only radials or both radial and bias ply tires. If they came with bias ply tires, then I would be comfortable using the tire you reference above, if Avon lists it for the LT. If the earlier models came only with radials, then I would stick with radials. I just don't know what the 1999 models came with as factory fitment. I am sure others here can address that for you.

My 07 came only with bias ply tires so that is what I stick with, in the same load and speed rating (and REINF for the rear), as BMW fitted.

To me, the acid test is: does the tire manufacturer list that tire for the LT when you use their fitment guide? If Avon doesn't list that tire when you look up 1999 LT, then that is what we call a clue.

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post #34 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 10:23 am
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Re: Tires questions

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You also have to remember that American companies need to protect themselves legally from sue happy society thus they more than likely specified a tire that is much over rated for the bike....just a thought.
I don't know your experience, but that certainly wasn't my experience. I worked with corporate lawyers for more then 30 years and I hold 15 or so patents (quite counting after 10). I never had a lawyer ask me to change a design. They mostly wanted us to ensure we had anticipated, to the degree humanly possible, how the product might be misused and test what might happen in such cases. Since we used tools and techniques such as FMEA extensively, we never had issues with attorneys. The bean counters were far more troublesome.

All products have some margin built in to cover some degree of stupidity. Look at how many people do things like exceed their vehicle's GVWR or do things like tow with a vehicle not rated for towing (this includes all motorcycles last I knew). However, margins are typically less then you think, 10-20% is not uncommon. One of our favorite sayings in the engineering community is "It is hard to make things idiot-proof, because idiots are so darn creative."
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post #35 of 38 Old Jan 10th, 2017, 1:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tires questions

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I know 1 person who is running a BT-020 on the rear and the Avon Roadrider AM26 on the front. He likes how it handles. I bought one based on his opinion but have less than a mile on them as I discovered my new rotors on my spare front rim were warped and causing brake issues so I don't have enough mileage on it to form an opinion. It is properly rated with a 58V though and i have heard others mention running them. As stated, you might like it or hate it but it will work on the LT.
This is what I will be running, I already replaced the rear tire to the Bridgestone BT-020 and now need to replace the front. I've used the 020 front before & HATED it, it didn't last long and cupped like crazy. Then ran Metz on both front and rear which was a good combination but more expensive. The Metz tires lasted over 2 yrs with many miles on them including a 1000 mile RT to Vegas, 2500 RT to New Mexico, another 1000 mile trip and various other shoter trips.

So we will see what this combo will hold.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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post #36 of 38 Old Jan 11th, 2017, 1:59 am
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Re: Tires questions

So let me add fuel to this never ending tire conversation . . .

Please note if for what ever reason you are involved in an insurance claim, especially one where there are huge losses, the insurance companies are now checking into the tires bikes have mounted on them. If using tires that are not the rating recommended by the manufacturer you are at risk of not getting the compensation / coverage you may be expecting.

So where did I hear this from - it was from a Bridgestone tire technical executive (TJ Tennent) who receives calls all the time to verify OEM tire questions posed by insurance companies.

Be careful out there . . .

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post #37 of 38 Old Jan 11th, 2017, 2:52 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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So let me add fuel to this never ending tire conversation . . .

Please note if for what ever reason you are involved in an insurance claim, especially one where there are huge losses, the insurance companies are now checking into the tires bikes have mounted on them. If using tires that are not the rating recommended by the manufacturer you are at risk of not getting the compensation / coverage you may be expecting.

So where did I hear this from - it was from a Bridgestone tire technical executive (TJ Tennent) who receives calls all the time to verify OEM tire questions posed by insurance companies.

Be careful out there . . .
u say whats a tire? i have no idea what that is and those where on there when i got it lol more fuel on the fire.. and never talk they are always recording if the accident was that serious that they are looking at your tires as a way out u will prolly need a lawyer anyway.. fire burn away
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post #38 of 38 Old Jan 12th, 2017, 12:07 pm
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Re: Tires questions

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Originally Posted by 99+bmw View Post
the 120/70/17 is a common size and if it has 58 load rating (58 load rating is around 520lbs with the bike always at that load 100% of the time) it should work. but being a performance tire dont expect to get 20k miles out of it. the installed profile of the tire might be different and more sporty and affect the handling good/or bad . no 2 tire brands in the same size have the exact same profile so you just have to try it and see if you like it.

and keep a eye on how its wearing and the 58 rating is based on the bike being at max load i think the LT has around 480lbs rating. to me the front is more important then the rear as far as handling and grip and tire pressure is very important in the life of the tire and the handling/grip. so you just have to try it everybody is different you may love the feel of the tire and i may hate it ect
good luck and report back on how you like the tire
I run the bridgestone tire on the back and avon roadrider on the front and yes they are both bais tires and I really like the combo I have about 10,000 on the avon now but probably will be changing it soon lot rubber yet but it just me The bridge I got the same miles on it but will probably put a nother 5,000 plus more miles on it The avon on the front is sticker than a metzeler tire and half the price The metzeler tire you get about 5,000 miles and you get the feel of nobble tire plenty of rubber left yet and you can still go another 7,000 plus if you can put up with the shaky handle handle grips

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