Nav III/3 to Nav V/5 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 11:02 am Thread Starter
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Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

I bought a Nav V a few months ago to replace the aging Nav III on my LT and also to take to Europe to use in a GTL rental. I bought the unit from Max BMW. They told me that the power connector was the same as what is on my VOICE II equipped LT, but that the other connector was different. And they couldn't even tell me for sure what the other connector was for, but thought it was for interface to the wiz wheel possibly via CANbus. I don't think they had much confidence in the latter information though.

I am attaching a few pictures hoping that someone here knows the pin-outs of the connectors on both the Nav 3 and Nav 5. If I can get pinout information, I may be able to get the voice commands from the Nav V to interface to the VOICE II so that I can hear them in my helmet. Otherwise, I will have a nice new GPS, but no way to hear it. Not the end of the world, but the commands are nice when riding in heavy traffic.

I will post a few pictures at a time and try to talk through what I have done so far. The first few here are just some old vs. new comparison shots to get started. Anyone want to make me an offer on a used, but still mostly functional Nav III? It has maps current as of last year for the Northeast as that was all I could fit into the memory. I say mostly functional as I think the screen is developing a glitch. Every now and then it will pop up the calibration screen for no apparent reason.
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2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW

Last edited by Voyager; May 14th, 2016 at 11:38 am.
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post #2 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 11:09 am Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

Removing the old mount was fairly easy, but I did have to split the stingray open to get the connectors to slide out of their mounts and had to remove the two front screws and loosen the two rear screws of the control panel plate in order to get the old cable out through the hole.

Once the GPS end of the cable was free, the power connector was fairly easy to remove, just use an awl to slide the connector locking tab to the side and slide the connector off the rail mount. Same thing for the "other" connector, which I think is called the "optional" connector in the BMW installation manual for the VOICE II system, but I have never found a description of what this "other" connector does. My guess is it has the audio output, but I would like to confirm that. And, of course, BMW uses oddball connectors that I have never been able to find in the US, or even in Europe!
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2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW

Last edited by Voyager; May 14th, 2016 at 11:40 am.
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post #3 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 11:35 am Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

My fundamental problem is making the transition from the old Nav III harness to the new Nav V harness. I haven't tried to mount the Nav V mount yet, but I have read that the bolt pattern is the same and all that is required are some offsets for clearance. I think the real issue here is electrical and not mechanical.

If anyone has any idea what the pin-outs are for these harnesses, I will be eternally grateful.

And if you know a source for the female connector to the "other" connector on the Nav V harness, I will be ecstatic!


I believe the power harness for the NAV III had +V on the pin in the pink side of the plastic, GND on the pin opposite it and the third pin (middle and offset from the other two) was unused. And I think the two pins in the "other" connector were signal and common for the audio, but that is just a guess.

I was hoping that the Nav V had the same power and ground and used the 3rd pin for the whiz wheel interface and used the "other" connector again for audio. That would make conversion fairly easy and just require finding the appropriate connectors, assuming, of course, electrical compatibility. Worst case, I cut off the OEM connectors and use Weatherpack connectors which are readily available and very high quality.

Worst case would be that the Nav V uses the 3rd pin in the power connector for the audio output and uses the two-pin "other" connector for the wiz wheel/canbus interface. This would definitely require some cutting and splicing. However, it generally is considered bad design to run low-voltage audio signals right beside and through the same connector as the power source.

If I can't find any information as to the function of these pins. I will probably try to connect an iPhone audio jack to the "other" connector on the stingray and see if this is a voice input to the VOICE II intercom. I may then try the opposite with the Nav V and see if I can connect the "other" connector to a speaker and see if any voice commands come out. Trouble is, without knowing the characteristics of the outputs and inputs, it is a crap shoot as to whether it will work. Unlikely to cause damage, but that is always a risk also.

Most audio signals are very low voltage (1 volt or less), but the impedances can vary. 4, 8 and 16 ohms are common and I have read that the iphone is close to 4 (some have said 4.5, but that is hair splitting for all practical purposes). Unfortunately, I know nothing about how the Nav 5 outputs audio or how the VOICE II receives it.

Anyone got any information on these devices?

The picture on the right shows the stingray end of both wiring harnesses with the old Nav III on top and the Nav V on bottom. Power connector looks to be the same, but the "other" two-pin connectors is, of course, much different.
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2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW

Last edited by Voyager; May 14th, 2016 at 11:47 am.
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post #4 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 12:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

It is premature to say "eureka", but I think I have discovered the secret of making a Nav V truly plug and play with the VOICE II intercom.

I was searching the BMW parts catalog trying to find a matching connector for the Nav 5 "other" (two pin) connector and had no luck. I looked closely at the connector on my harness and was able to just barely read a number on it. I really need to get a lighted magnifier for this small stuff!

The number is 1718555-1. I searched on this number and found an image with Google that looked like just this black part of the connector, but it had no white part. I then looked more closely at my connector and saw that the white part had numbers that appeared to run under the black part and then I also noticed that the black part appeared to not be integral with the while part, but rather clipped on. I had assumed it was all one cemented together connector at first.

Using a small eyeglasses screwdriver, I carefully pried up on the tab, and, voila, it came apart. And guess what was behind this adapter? Yep, a connector that is almost identical to that on my Nav III harness. The only difference I can tell is that it lacks the mounting rails to slide into the stingray mount, but a zip tie will take care of that. Assuming electrical compatibility, and I can't see why they would change something like this, I may have found how some of the savvy dealers make this a plug and plan conversion. I can't believe the folks at Max would not know this...

I won't have my bike together for a few weeks yet to test this, but I am at least hopeful now that I can use the Nav V with my VOICE II and hear the turn-by-turn commands. And not have to botch up the wiring harness to do so.
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2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #5 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 3:27 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

I completed the installation other than final testing. So, this is my last installment until the bike is together and I can function test the Nav V and see if it works with the VOICE II.
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post #6 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 6:49 pm
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

Matt, I do not know what is wrong with you. Your shop is way too damn clean!

Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
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post #7 of 18 Old May 14th, 2016, 6:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

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Originally Posted by Scouter-50 View Post
Matt, I do not know what is wrong with you. Your shop is way too damn clean!

Robert
Well, it is brand new. I spent most of the winter insulating, dry walling, painting, installing trim, installing suspended ceiling and, my favorite, installing four 2'x2' LED troffer lights! After 15 years of working in an unfinished garage with no lift and a single 100 watt incandescence bulb, I figured enough was enough!


2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #8 of 18 Old Jun 14th, 2016, 8:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I completed the installation other than final testing. So, this is my last installment until the bike is together and I can function test the Nav V and see if it works with the VOICE II.
I got my LT back together last night and gave the Navigator V a test today. I am happy to report that the Nva V works just as did the Nav III. It powers up and shuts down as before and the audio commands come through the rider headset just as with the Nav III I had before.

So, the Navigator V truly was a plug compatible upgrade ... once I figured that the correct plug was hidden behind the black adapter coupling. Once that was removed, both plugs looked just like those on the Nav III and perform the same functions for the VOICE II intercom.

Life is good!
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2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #9 of 18 Old Jun 15th, 2016, 10:58 am
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Thumbs up Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

That's nice work! I had previously replaced the Nav III with a Garmin 590LM. I assume that your conversion/adaptation would also work with the 590LM which would allow use of the Garmin tire pressure monitoring system. My GTLE has the Nav V unit with the integral TPMS, but the pressure display readings are shown on the instrument cluster instead of the GPS unit. One of the advantages I liked about the old Nav III unit was that it included all BMW Motorrad dealers in the address listing. One another thread, someone provided a how to on installing this feature on the 590LM. Since you used the Nav V, I wonder if there is a way to add the TPMS feature, but using Garmin's TPMS sensors? If so, you'd have the best of both worlds.
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post #10 of 18 Old Jun 15th, 2016, 11:35 am Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

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That's nice work! I had previously replaced the Nav III with a Garmin 590LM. I assume that your conversion/adaptation would also work with the 590LM which would allow use of the Garmin tire pressure monitoring system. My GTLE has the Nav V unit with the integral TPMS, but the pressure display readings are shown on the instrument cluster instead of the GPS unit. One of the advantages I liked about the old Nav III unit was that it included all BMW Motorrad dealers in the address listing. One another thread, someone provided a how to on installing this feature on the 590LM. Since you used the Nav V, I wonder if there is a way to add the TPMS feature, but using Garmin's TPMS sensors? If so, you'd have the best of both worlds.
I don't think it would be as easy. I considered a 590, but decided against it for two reasons:

1. I looked at this video on the wire harness and it does not interface to the VOICE II intercom. If you could find the matching connectors, you could probably splice them in, but it might be easier to just hardwire to power. However, you would still not have voice commands through the intercom, which I like.

2. The TPMS appears unreliable on the LT, particularly the rear.

2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #11 of 18 Old Jun 16th, 2016, 2:57 am
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

My Garmin TPMS has been pretty reliable. I've only had it disconnect a couple of times and replaced one of the batteries once on one wheel as a precautionary measure. Sounds like you're saying that the Nav V is the way to go, and if a TPMS is desired, buy a non-Garmin aftermarket version. Thanks for your work in getting the Nav V to interface with the LT's system. If you had done this about a couple of years ago, I might gone the Nav V route instead of the 590.

Now, if there was a way to cut the glare/unreadability of the Nav V on my GTLE during daylight.... I've installed a NuShield antiglare screen and still have a tough time being able to see it. My 590 on the LT is much better as it's mounted on the stingray, not another foot away at least on the GTLE...
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post #12 of 18 Old Jun 16th, 2016, 3:29 pm
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

Matt
You'll be riding a "new" bike between the gps and clutch. Glad that you are paving the way for me and my 07.
Thank you for documenting your work

Rick
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post #13 of 18 Old Jun 21st, 2016, 10:02 pm
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

So what's the final answer? The Nav V is plug and play but the 590 is not? I don't use headsets. Will the GPS output to the LT stereo speakers?

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post #14 of 18 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 12:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

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So what's the final answer? The Nav V is plug and play but the 590 is not? I don't use headsets. Will the GPS output to the LT stereo speakers?
I can't speak definitively to the 590 as I don't own one. The pictures of the harness don't look plug compatible, but that is all I can say.

The BMW VOICE II plays GPS directions only through drivers headset. No speaker output and no passenger headset. Who knows why...

2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #15 of 18 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 3:45 am
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Smile Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

I would like to thank Voyager for a wonderful post, you saved my sanity and my 2006 LTE.
My old Nav 3 has been playing up for some time - with map updates no longer supported by Garmin and several years out of date, travelling through major cities like Melbourne and Sydney was a nightmare. A few months ago I was fortunate enough to win a Nav 5 on a Safari ride and thought all my Sundays had come at once only to be deflated when I could not find anyone willing to install it - most said they didn't think it was comparable with my favourite bike. So I rather foolishly decided to give it a go myself, after all, what could go wrong, I know where fuel and air go.
I found a youtube clip on how to take the plastic off, so I started there with a plan to follow the Nav 3 cable to where it connected into the bike harness and hope upon hope that the connectors on the 3 and 5 might after all be identical notwithstanding what I had been told. When I got the plastic off and got to the radio unit I couldn't work out how to get he top off - the birds nest of wiring and couplings under it were also very scary looking. So, I panicked and thought it best to put it all back while I could remember where most things went.
When I got back to safety with only one screw left over, I felt relief... and defeat! How could I give up so easy without even finding out if the connectors were the same. If I did not go back I would never know if success was only a finger nail away.
After a few weeks of misery I resolved to give it a go again. Plastic off, the under radio birds nest in sight, I started lifting out the radio unit labelling unplugged connectors as I went, tracked the Nav 3 cable to its end, my heart sank when the connectors didn't look the same. Defeated again, I put it all back, again with the same one screw left over.
Disappointed and not feeling like sleep, still hopeful I started looking on the net but without much success, everything seem to be saying that plug and play on an older LT was a pipe dream... until almost asleep on the job I stumbled upon Voyager's "Nav 3 to Nav 5" post and my spirits shot skyward, maybe there was still hope!
Before going to bed I wanted to confirm that the black and white connector on the Nav 5 did separate as Voyager suggested, and sure enough it did. EUREKA! as some smart man once said, to bed impatient for morning.
I spent most of today stripping of the plastic, trawling through the birds nest, working out how to extract the connectors and voila, it all plugged straight in - my dream come true! Back together again I took a ride around the block and everything works perfectly, what a joy to have my beautiful LT back and ready for its next big trip. My GS has Nav 4 but cruising on a GS is not as good as on the LT with Shania Twain and Adel for company (at almost full volume when possible) - cows in paddocks seem to like Shania and Adel too.
I've still got that one screw as a souvenir but most of all I am very thankful to you Voyager, you are a true gentleman and moving towards sainthood in my books. Your willingness to share have made an occasional biker from down under very happy. Thank you sooo much.
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post #16 of 18 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 7:32 am Thread Starter
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

Skippy, I am glad you got your GPS sorted. I am really enjoying mine. The only thing I wish the Nav V had was a power switch accessible while in the cradle as had the Nav III. I have to either lock the bars to get the key to the power completely off position or remove it from the cradle. I wish I could just switch it off as I could with the old III when making relatively short stops. Other than that small nit, the V is all good even though no more readable in bright light than the III. My winter project is to buy or fab a shield for it.

Given how easy a retrofit this is once you know that the adapter is removable, I am amazed that BMW dealers don't know this. They could sell a lot more Nav V devices if they let folks know how painlessly they can upgrade. I say painless only because I have had my stingray off at least a dozen times now and can almost do it blindfolded.


If you post a clear picture of your extra screw, there is a good chance someone here can tell you where it belongs. This forum is populated with a few people who know the LT really well. Trust me, I have been the beneficiary of much great advice during my 9+ years owning my LT.

2007 K1200LT, VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator, K7MSW
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post #17 of 18 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 4:07 am
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Smile Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

Hi Voyager, agree with your comments re switch. I guess I'm just grateful to have an up to date sat nav and maybe I'm more accepting because I did not pay for my new nav. The screw I have left is one of the many generic screws used to hold the plastic on, I'm not that worried about one screw as everything feels very secure. After this experience without doubt I'll be referring to this forum many times in the future, the information here is just brilliant. Happy riding, we are just entering summer so many miles of great riding coming up.
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post #18 of 18 Old Jan 11th, 2017, 3:28 pm
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Re: Nav III/3 to Nav V/5

O.K. I'm back. Same topic, different question. I picked up a used 2730, looks kinda like a Nav III. The plug coming out of the bike is the same as on the 2730 harness. GPS powers up from AC adapter but not on the bike. Is the plug the same or is there some strange handshaking going on? I don't care about the intercom or GPS audio. I just want the GPS to turn on and work. Should it?

MarkF
2009 K1200LT

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