Loud Pipes in the National Parks: yea or nay?

[FridayBob]

Should the park rangers turn away excessively loud vehicles that exceed EPA noise regulations?

Yellowstone National Park is struggling with this question right now. A large number of park visitors have complained about the noise that can be heard well over a mile away.

Secondly, the Hells Angels 2006 World Run is being held in Cody, WY this July. According to this article, http://www.matr.net/article-17842.html, most of these bikers are "friendly, free-spending and an economic plus to the area." Again, the parks are expecting a huge influx of loud pipes.

An alternate opinion: "I really don't think shooting people is a recreational activity," Lawrenson says. "And blocking the police from a crime scene is not your usual tourist activity." was posted here: http://www.missoulian.com/specials/hellsangels/ha07.html

What rights do we have as park visitors, both to "ride free" and to enjoy the tranquility and silence of a vast wilderness?

Opinions please. I will send them on to the Director of Programs at Yellowstone for consideration.
FridayBob

[mwnahas]

I say, NAY. They should only allow the BMW CCR group in. :)

[rspyder]

Loud pipes should be restricted and kept out of the parks. I am a half mile from the nearest road and there is a hill in between the house and the road, but some of those pipes are so loud that you have to stop talking.

[andy]

I think there ARE rules in place against overly loud pipes already. The problem is that they are not being enforced anywhere (or almost anywhere)

I'd say NO to open pipes in Natl. parks.

[FridayBob]

Thanks Michael, excellent suggestion. As in all my previous CCRs, we were the quietest bikes there. Except for you Remus rebels out there, and you know who you are!

[meese]

Except for you Remus rebels out there, and you know who you are!The same ones that got radar speed signs installed, especially for us? :D

[messenger13]

Except for you Remus rebels out there, and you know who you are!Hear Hear! Not that the Remus pipe on an LT comes anywhere near those steeekin Harley morons, and those young pukes with their loud sportbikes. At least you don't have to put up with the volume on a sportbike as long. They ride much faster. :D

[grifscoots]

Loud pipes is one thang, but I passed some of our folk in the park and they had some kind of weird simul-cast of the "Sound of Music" playing off all their stereo's at the same time. The racket was tumultuous and it severely sent me spiralling to some sort of therapy.

"The hilllllllls are alllllllive, with the sound of mussssssicccccc....."

[SanMan]

I like the sound of a Harley, emphasis on the word a. You get more than two or three of those going down the road and man it can get loud. I am a camper and do not want to hear that kind of thing when I am at a park. On the highway fine, in my sleeping bag, no.

Scott

[danbrown]

i agree with andy - the laws are in place against loud pipes/excessive noise enforce them to the letter. they should not be allowed in the national parks.

[messenger13]

I like the sound of a Harley...I have my kids totally brain-washed, and it's great.
Every time we hear a Harley, they smile as they say, "Dad, you're right! They do sound like a wet fart!". http://www.zzrbikes.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/fart.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':fart:'))

[cfell]

hahaha... Joe, I submit it's more like they are "lighting" them...with waterproof matches.

There are so many things to pick on.. let's see... about all the "hogs", especially road hogs, let's
- establish a 20 mile perimeter for any housing/development to "protect" the park....
- at edge of perimeter, create parking lot for all the busses and other LARGE slow moving vehicles.
- Allow them in/out of the park 3 times a day, (15 minutes at 0600, 1200, 1800) or for medical emergency...
- Bicycle riders... well, there's a whole new opportunity.

Yes, I think the "laws" we have in place, should they be properly enforced and obeyed. Now, let's have a battle over "States rights"...oh, that was done.

I'm with Griff... one of my HD friends is going to make a CD of "real motorcycle exhaust" so I can play it LOUD!...

Come to think of it... I don't think the stereo can overcome my LOUD BRAKES! No laws against them.. yet.

Sacred cows make the best burgers.

[UncleRock]

Enforce the rules already on the book.
They have laws for everything, writting new ones is how these politicians justify their exsistance.
It does not matter if they have an HA patch or a CMA patch.
If the bike they are on is over the decible limit, (Tested by someone that knows the differance between his ass and a hole in the ground) Not only refuse them entrance, but also ticket them on the spot. :eek:
Rock

[Lynn_Keen]

I'm 100% in favor of restricting park access to LOUD pipes. In fact I'm against LOUD pipes everywhere and anywhere! As several have already stated, there are existing laws in place, all they need to do is enforce them! If they don't, the next step will be to restrict ALL MOTORCYCLES from these areas. That way they can't be accused of being discriminatory.

Back in the late '80's my son and I went on a father son motorcycle camping trip. Among others, one of our destinations was Chincoteague, VA and the island park where the wild horses roam free. While speaking to a Ranger in the visitor center about the various activities available within the park I was immediately informed that I would not be permitted anywhere beyond the parking lot on my motorcycle, a bone stock '79 Gold Wing. When I ask why I was informed that they had recently conducted a public opinion poll concerning motorcycle access to the park. The overwhelming result, I seem to recall something like 90%, indicated that the public did not want motorcycles in the park. The obvious reason was noise!! The AMA quickly resolved this issue with the authorities and removed the ban as the park is exclusively supported by tax dollars. However, the point is that if we can't get the 1%'er's to comply with existing laws we're all gona suffer!

[dshealey]

I'm 100% in favor of restricting park access to LOUD pipes. In fact I'm against LOUD pipes everywhere and anywhere! As several have already stated, there are existing laws in place, all they need to do is enforce them! If they don't, the next step will be to restrict ALL MOTORCYCLES from these areas. That way they can't be accused of being discriminatory.----------------------

You cannot rid a motorcycle on the famous Pebble Beach "17 mile" scenic route near Montery, CA, even if it makes less noise than most cars. Same thing, NO motorcycles allowed.

[midwilshire]

You cannot rid a motorcycle on the famous Pebble Beach "17 mile" scenic route near Montery, CA, even if it makes less noise than most cars. Same thing, NO motorcycles allowed.I believe that 17-mile drive is on private property held by the Pebble Beach Company. If so, then the obvious distinction is that the federal parks are public property held by the federal government, which is subject to more restrictions than private entities.

Anyone on the forum know of a government (fed, state, local) that has banned motorcycles wholesale from an area of public property? Not just regulation of noise, but a complete "do not enter" restriction... past or present...

[dshealey]

I believe that 17-mile drive is on private property held by the Pebble Beach Company. ---------------...

That is true. Just making the point that if possible, the majority of people just about anywhere would ban motorcycles because of noise, if the laws allowed them to. If local/state laws allowed majority votes to pass restrictions, we would have precious few places to ride because of the fleeping jerks with loud pipes, minority of riders that they are.

[RonKMiller]

An interesting side note:

A friend of mine that manufactures VERY loud pipes for sportbikes called me recently in an absolute panic. He wanted to know if I knew of any special sound damping composites that he could use in his design to kill the noise. I reluctantly referred him to a couple of companies.

He told me that there was a new federal law being passed that would place severe restrictions on the db level with the aftermarket manufacturers, and that they would be required to match stock db levels. I really didn't catch the new law, but he said it would put him and plenty of aftermarket pipe guys out of business. I'm not usually if favor of new regulations, but I applaud this one.

I HATE loud pipes with a passion, and although I would not want him to go out of business that sometimes is the way the cookie crumbles.

Loud pipes on cars or bikes have absolutely no place in our already overwhelmingly noisy society and ESPECIALLY in supposed refuges from it.

Ticket the ***holes and ban them. :mad:

[jorawro]

NAY ------ enforce the rules as has been said before ---- and not just in parks. If you were to drive a car with-out a muffler or with a straight-pipe you would be ticketed and likely towed. Why the long-standing difference for MCs?
On a somewhat related note I have wondered about the genre who finds it neccessary to constantly be revving their engines when stopped (traffic lights etc.)--------does it really have anything to do with the size of certain body organs?:confused:

[SilverBuffalo]

Some will argue that:
Loud pipes save lives, I personally think that if that were to be truth then
it stands to reason that the cars with loud bass music are also safer.
In my not so humble opinion there's little difference between the two.
so that brings me to the next question.
Should cars with loud bass music playing be allowed in national parks?

[hawg]

Been to Callaway Gardens in Georgia? Not on a motorcycle!

Seen many a Gold Winger turned away because the loud pipes crowd made it intolerable for visitors. I was ticked because I could not ride the LT there either!
:mad:

So, enforce the bloody laws on the books fairly. HA...my HD buds...whatever.

Gettin to where I can't enjoy the outdoors without listening to Joe's wet farts. :eek: :rolleyes: :p

[andy]

If loud pipes save lives, how come there are still BMW riders alive?

As for the load music: I think this falls into the same category. Small penis syndrome.

[Ron82much]

An interesting side note:

A friend of mine that manufactures VERY loud pipes for sportbikes called me recently in an absolute panic. He wanted to know if I knew of any special sound damping composites that he could use in his design to kill the noise. I reluctantly referred him to a couple of companies.

He told me that there was a new federal law being passed that would place severe restrictions on the db level with the aftermarket manufacturers, and that they would be required to match stock db levels. I really didn't catch the new law, but he said it would put him and plenty of aftermarket pipe guys out of business. I'm not usually if favor of new regulations, but I applaud this one.

I HATE loud pipes with a passion, and although I would not want him to go out of business that sometimes is the way the cookie crumbles.

Loud pipes on cars or bikes have absolutely no place in our already overwhelmingly noisy society and ESPECIALLY in supposed refuges from it.

Ticket the ***holes and ban them. :mad:

I've read the proposed regulation, it involves intakes as well as exhaust...air pollution as well as noise pollution. If it goes through as written you can kiss your FI chips as well as your Remus exhaust systems goodbye. Aftermarket manufacturers would only be able to produce functionally equivalent systems that produce the same performance and emissions that the stock systmes do. That's as built, NOT as required.

I like a bit of sound out of my cruiser, not ear-splitting but more thant the BMW standard sewing machine for sure. Most unmodified, aftermarket exhausts meet the strict letter of the law which specifies RPM as well as distance and angle from the pipe outlet. (my bike shop tests them according to the statute and only sells the ones that comply...they sell most styles and brands) The problem is that the law is too generic and the manufacturers surely tune the systems to squeak by at that setting. I would like to see a new standard written that limits the sound level over the full RPM range of the motor and allows for some "improvement" to the sound.

There are opinions about what should be allowed and they run the gamut from absolutely silent to no restrictions at all. The AMA is taking the correct approach, IMO, with there "loud pipes risk rights" campaign and I support it fully. I am amazed by how many people on this board support so many government imposed restrictions on motorcycles from loud pipes to protective gear. This is, however, my first foray into a realm dominated primarily by sport bikers...this is strangely a far more opinionated group in regard to other types of bikes and other tastes than the cruiser world I am used to. (But then I guess I am a moron since I ride a cruiser and not a sport bike, right Joe? (BTW...you can call it a Harley if you like...I've never seen you use any other designation for cruisers so I'm sure you couldnt be bothered learning the difference))

If I WERE to start advocating government restrictions on bikes I'd start with governors and top speed limits. Street racing idiots and stunt weenies are my pet peeve...loud pipes annoy many for sure, but a pair of Ninjas appearing out of nowhere on the highway at well over 100mph, blasting by on both sides with engines emitting ear splitting shrieks through aftermarket racing exhausts as they weave from lane to lane while racing each other have damn near startled me out of my socks...I'd be shocked if those types of idiots haven't caused more than a few accidents. Who the hell NEEDs a bike that can top 150mph? No one, in my opinion. But I will never advocate government restrictions on bikes...I will, however, continue to jump up and down for stronger enforcement of traffic laws (or, to be more accurate, traffic suggestions as that is what they seem to have become) and stiff fines for outrageous violations thereof, by cars, trucks, AND bikes.

My feeling has always been that motorcylists are a threatened minority in the world of vehicular transportation and we need to stick together in trying to find ways short of government regulation to reign in those who make us all look bad in the public eye. Condemning, mocking, and stereotyping riders simply based on the fact that their taste in motorcycles differs from our own is NOT helpful to the overall cause. For all the talk on this board of "buy what speaks to you" it is amazing to me how a number of people on this board are content to publicly condemn people on their choice of bike without further qualification. Passing judgement based on the love of chrome and leather and the "classic" look and ignoring the common denominator of two wheels. Obviously some here feel that statement is understood to only apply to THEIR taste in bikes. I've seen plenty of comments regarding the "Harley Crowd" (again, usually meaning all cruiser riders...I'd personally never buy a Harley, overpriced for what it is) that assume we are all a bunch of drunk morons riding from bar to bar on their loud slow "butt jewelry". As I see it that is just pointing up ignorant intolerance on the part of the speaker (or writer) who, if they realize it or not, doesn't actually support motorcycling as a whole.

If you phrase the question carefully you might (or might not) be surprised at how many people would not care (or would even be happy) if motorcycles were banned altogether, not just from parks and quiet areas...cite the "social burden" or protecting us from ourselves, or traffic hazards of street racers and stunt weenies or any number of other "threats" to themselves or others that the stereotypical motorcyclist represents...it's NOT just loud pipes, although the excessive noise levels of many are not helpful. We should be pushing hard to advocate motorcycles as a solution to traffic and fuel consumption, not supporting efforts to move more and more in the direction of eliminating them.

All that being said I do think that the current noise standards are inadequate and need to be strengthened and enforced for ALL vehicles (including truck engine brakes and the mega-watt stereos), I just don't want to see the draconian solutions that are currently being proposed.

Sorry for letting this devolve into a long rant, I guess I just go from simmer to boil sometimes...

[oknplm]

Excellent point Ron82much
Quote:


My feeling has always been that motorcylists are a threatened minority in the world of vehicular transportation and we need to stick together in trying to find ways short of government regulation to reign in those who make us all look bad in the public eye. Condemning, mocking, and stereotyping riders simply based on the fact that their taste in motorcycles differs from our own is NOT helpful to the overall cause. For all the talk on this board of "buy what speaks to you" it is amazing to me how a number of people on this board are content to publicly condemn people on their choice of bike without further qualification. Passing judgement based on the love of chrome and leather and the "classic" look and ignoring the common denominator of two wheels. Obviously some here feel that statement is understood to only apply to THEIR taste in bikes. I've seen plenty of comments regarding the "Harley Crowd" (again, usually meaning all cruiser riders...I'd personally never buy a Harley, overpriced for what it is) that assume we are all a bunch of drunk morons riding from bar to bar on their loud slow "butt jewelry". As I see it that is just pointing up ignorant intolerance on the part of the speaker (or writer) who, if they realize it or not, doesn't actually support motorcycling as a whole.



All the forum needs is another Harley or competitor bashing thread. It somewhat echo’s what some of my Harley friends have asked me. “Why are so many BMW riders uptight on what we wear or ride”. I know quite a few Harley riders and they are hard working, trustworthy, family oriented individuals who contribute to society. If their idea of a good time is different from some BMW riders so be it. I respect their right to enjoy their life the way they want to live it. I have to say, I question why so many people feel the need to bash Harley riders by continually asking:


Why don’t Harley riders wave?

Why do Harley riders need loud pipes?

Why do Harley riders all wear the same uniform?

etc, etc, etc.



Does this stuff really keep you up at night?



I would rather worry about more global concerns that impact my family, friends and the future of America. I use my motorcycle time to enjoy what motorcycling does for me and so many others. A sense of freedom, escape from the day-to-day grind and quality time with those that feel the same passion for motorcycles as I do. I really don’t care what brand you ride, what uniform you wear or what walk of life you come from. I have lost two friends from motorcycle accidents and both rode Harley’s. Neither deserved to have an automobile driver cross the dividing line into upcoming traffic or have an automobile driver run a red light and broad side him. They both rode the motorcycle of their choice (Harley, one with loud pipes) and were just as passionate about the sport as so many of us. I know I will never be able to replace their friendship but if I could be so lucky as to rediscover two individuals with as much heart and loyalty as they had I would care less what or how loud their ride was.



May we never find the end of the road!



Perry Ridgway



oknplm

[MOSLEYDS]

I don't have much problem with loud pipes. That being said, I do think there should be some restriction in the National Parks. Not only out of respect for the visitors, but more importantly for the wildlife.

[RonKMiller]

"Sorry for letting this devolve into a long rant, I guess I just go from simmer to boil sometimes..."

I thought your comments were right on - a bit off target from the current discussion - but well put together.

My own personal rant about loud pipes is partly my own doing.

My neighbor across the street - whom I have gotten along with great for the past six years recently won an 883 at a pool tournament. He's obviously pretty darned good at 8 ball.

It sat unused in the garage for about 5 months after it was delivered to his house. I casually suggested to him that he might enjoy motorcycling and that taking a beginner riding course at the local community college would be a good start. He took my suggestion. After several weeks of literally riding up and down our street (without a helmet or safety gear) I asked him why he had never gone on the road. His reply was that it wasn't for him and that it was too risky. I suggested that we should both go out on a Sunday morning for a ride and I would be pleased to "coach" him along. He did a great job of riding and I congratulated him on his focus - he reciprocated by praising my patience and teaching skills.

The very next week there was a brand new 2005 Fat Boy sitting in his garage. :rolleyes:

The Fat Boy now has probably $20,000 worth of chrome on it, he also has a new wardrobe of "brand name" riding clothes without armor and a half helmet.
It also has a new highly modified $15,000 engine (apparently the stock engine did not have enough balls for this neophyte) and $5,000 custom paint job. The salesman at his dealership must do back flips every time he comes a' callin. ;)

He is now a "biker". He rides to the local restaurant and back to show off his new steed to his new biker friends. He has never ridden more than 50 miles at a time. Never.

Oh yeah, he also got straight pipes without ANY muffling. I get to listen to this turkey almost every morning at 6:00 am when he literally wakes me up out of a sound sleep.

Am I pissed? You betcha.

But mostly at most myself. No good deed goes unpunished.

[TandemCyclist]

Having lived and volunteered in a NP (Bryce Canyon) for 3 months, I have a slightly different take on the problem. The parks are strapped for cash. Who knows where it goes, but if you ever get a chance, take a look at a park budget and where the money comes from and what it goes too.

Enforcement at parks is not one of the top priorities in the budget. Most of the guys you see in the trucks are temps with no benefits until they become semi permanent. They can only work 180 days. Even the semi permanent have to take a couple of months off. The number of enforcement people are very limited and they do rescue work also. When I left Bryce at the end of October, there were 3 enforcement rangers left, and one of those was doing Katrina duty. Three people till May.

Ok here is where I'm going. The noise ordinance is on the books. We had no DB meter at Bryce, because I wanted to check some Generac generators in the CG, much less, time from the enforcement to write a ticket. So what do you do about a problem that you can't enforce, you write a law that does not discriminate by what MC you ride. Prohibit all MCs and the gate clerk can enforce.

I was one of the two motorcyclist at this informal meeting of park personal to discuss this topic. The best option is to stick together as motorcyclist and inform the loud pipe guys as best we can.

Take the bus when you can.

[BUGKILLER]

I say keep them out. Plenty of places to be noisy. My last pony was a Bigdog BullDog. The first thing I did was have the corks put back in the pipes and re-jetted the carb. It still had a great low throaty rumble but I could still hear traffic and I didn't set off car alarms. I don't understand the need to scare people and rattle windows to have a good ride. Guess I am getting old but I have never liked loud bikes.

[Keith]

No loud pipes, not just no... HELL NO.

Ticket the owner and impound the bike.

[Kenny]

No!! The parks are for people to enjoy the beauty of nature not the roar of a Harley.
Also I doubt that the Rangers in Yellowstone will invite the CCR bunch back real soon after the problems they had last year with the speeding.

[rickcavanaugh]

I do not mind the slightly loud pipes, but the ear shattering pipes should not be allowed on the streets period. The national parks should never let ANY Vehicle in that will prevent others from enjoying the park or do any harm to the wildlife. I hate the government creating new laws, but occassionally they need to make changes. However, without enforcement, it is a waste.

My pet peeves....
I was behind a couple of Harleys with straight pipes at about 70 mph. It was painful. My only choice was to quickly pass them to save my ears. My guess was the decibel levels were close to 130. That is not right.

My neighbor had a Harley with the straight pipes and he would warm the bike up for 15 minutes, blipping the throttle at 6:30 am. Nothing more enjoyable than listening to his "shrimp boat" at 6:30 am on a Sunday.

More and more places do not allow bikes for this reason. Add to the list Sugarloaf Mountain in Maryland. It had a No Motorcycle sign.

[RideIt]

Folks. we can beat this to death. I like some others do not mind somewhat loud pipes on "a" bike, but get several together is a different story. We that do not have the loud pipes are being turned away from a lot of different places other that National & State Parks because of the group of bikers who have no respect for anything or anybody. If we as a group do not somehow police this effort, we are doomed. Even AMA, of which I am a proud member, endorses our "freedom" to ride and dress however we want. We need to change this mindset and have it where people will see us in a different light. Well, my answer is that loud pipes should be banned everywhere, not only at Parks. PS. I am a former owner of a Harley with loud pipes.
Leon
05 Blue LT

[KMC1]

NO to loud pipes.
NO to overcrowding the parks and disturbing the animals.
NO to riding like Joe Racer inappropriately.

[Keith]

Here is the AMA's stance...

http://www.ama-cycle.org/legisltn/positions/noise.asp



Perhaps Joe Straightpipe can be handed a copy when he's turned away from the park entrance. :p

[yaklt]

.......
Gettin to where I can't enjoy the outdoors without listening to Joe's wet farts. :eek: :rolleyes: :pNow that's funny!

[yaklt]

......
Oh yeah, he also got straight pipes without ANY muffling. I get to listen to this turkey almost every morning at 6:00 am when he literally wakes me up out of a sound sleep.

Am I pissed? You betcha.

But mostly at most myself. No good deed goes unpunished.
An oft forgotten basic: your rights end where they impinge on the rights of others.

[danbrew]

This is a great thread - some especially good comments...


Enforce the rules already on the book.
They have laws for everything, writting new ones is how these politicians justify their exsistance.
It does not matter if they have an HA patch or a CMA patch.
If the bike they are on is over the decible limit, (Tested by someone that knows the differance between his ass and a hole in the ground) Not only refuse them entrance, but also ticket them on the spot.
Rock



Having lived and volunteered in a NP (Bryce Canyon) for 3 months, I have a slightly different take on the problem. The parks are strapped for cash. Who knows where it goes, but if you ever get a chance, take a look at a park budget and where the money comes from and what it goes too.

Enforcement at parks is not one of the top priorities in the budget. Most of the guys you see in the trucks are temps with no benefits until they become semi permanent. They can only work 180 days. Even the semi permanent have to take a couple of months off. The number of enforcement people are very limited and they do rescue work also. When I left Bryce at the end of October, there were 3 enforcement rangers left, and one of those was doing Katrina duty. Three people till May.

Ok here is where I'm going. The noise ordinance is on the books. We had no DB meter at Bryce, because I wanted to check some Generac generators in the CG, much less, time from the enforcement to write a ticket. So what do you do about a problem that you can't enforce, you write a law that does not discriminate by what MC you ride. Prohibit all MCs and the gate clerk can enforce.

I was one of the two motorcyclist at this informal meeting of park personal to discuss this topic. The best option is to stick together as motorcyclist and inform the loud pipe guys as best we can.

Take the bus when you can.
__________________
Rick


I worry when we start painting with a broad brush. Not all motorcyclists have loud pipes. You know - it's the old "one guy gives us all a bad name" thing. I've got no problems when somebody with uber loud pipes gets a ticket - but who decides - and how do they decide - what's uber loud? Rick outlines the end result of any type of "solution" implemented to solve what is probably a really small problem. No DB meters? Ok, no motorcycles.

What kind of shit is that?

Give me a ticket or bar entry to me if *I'm* being an ass. Not because the last guy did. This is kind of like the "guns kill people, so I think YOU'RE gonna kill someone. Therefore no gun for you."

Judge me by my actions - not what you think I may do.

[Ron82much]

This is a great thread - some especially good comments...


... No DB meters? Ok, no motorcycles.

What kind of shit is that?

Give me a ticket or bar entry to me if *I'm* being an ass. Not because the last guy did. This is kind of like the "guns kill people, so I think YOU'RE gonna kill someone. Therefore no gun for you."

Judge me by my actions - not what you think I may do.

Wicked way right! Make reasonable, meaningful and measurable standards then enforce those. No regulation should be based soley on the discretion or judgement of the officer on the scene...too much room for personal bias and selective enforcement.

[dshealey]

Wicked way right! Make reasonable, meaningful and measurable standards then enforce those. No regulation should be based soley on the discretion or judgement of the officer on the scene...too much room for personal bias and selective enforcement.

The answer is NOT to just allow the A**H***S to disrupt the majority because you cannot "measure" it. Spend the money to buy every law enforcement officer a DB meter! They are not all that expensive. Certainly a small fraction of the cost of RADAR units!

It all boils down to enforcement of all the existing laws, using the means necessary to do so.

We cannot just let the jerks take advantage of the lack of measuring capability to inflict their ego driven stupidity on the rest of us.

[SilverBuffalo]

We cannot just let the jerks take advantage of the lack of measuring capability
to inflict their ego driven stupidity on the rest of us.

ooh now that's good, very good :thumb:

[Keith]

Wicked way right! Make reasonable, meaningful and measurable standards then enforce those. No regulation should be based soley on the discretion or judgement of the officer on the scene...too much room for personal bias and selective enforcement.

Anybody feel free to correct me here but, IIRC all "official" EPA, NHTSA, DOT, LMNOPQ, approved exhausts are stamped as such, are they not?

Excepting the Dorks that actually gutted a stock muffler, LEO's could simply look for the Cert. No DB meter required. Even my silly headlight guard has a "not for street use" sticker on it. Don't the aftermarket pipes?


No Tickey... no washey!