Celebrate Diversity!

[mconlogue]

Yeah, thats what I mean! :D

[KYchris02]

5 children were killed every day in gun related accidents and suicides committed with a firearm, from 1994-1998.

A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

Studies show that guns in the home are the primary source for firearms that teenagers use to kill themselves.

Toy guns and teddy bears have more federal manufacturing regulations than real guns.

Every day 79 people are killed by firearms in America.

[mconlogue]

5 children were killed every day in gun related accidents and suicides committed with a firearm, from 1994-1998.

A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

Studies show that guns in the home are the primary source for firearms that teenagers use to kill themselves.

Toy guns and teddy bears have more federal manufacturing regulations than real guns.

Every day 79 people are killed by firearms in America.


Thanks for the opposing view Chris.
-M

(I still think its a cool pic!)

[BUGKILLER]

Swimming pools kill 8 times more children every year with drowning than guns, let's outlaw pools... More people die every year from drunk driving than died the entire Viet Nam War, do we blame the cars or the booze...Smoking kills 3 times more than that every year.. Heart disease gets even more than that. Watch out Burger King. I am a gun owner,hunter,plinker,enthusiast and shade tree gunsmith.I live in California with all the maximum restrictions on assault rifles and handguns designed to curb crime and save lives.It's done nothing to the criminal element to curb violence. It all boils down to personal responsibility for the gun owner. The 99% of registered ,law abiding gun owners are penalized for the 1% criminal element and our jackass Sacramento blame game law makers.Gun laws are ineffective.

[Daman858]

On that poster, I carried a row 2, #2 from 1967 to 1989, when we converted to row 1, #3, which I carried from 1989 until I retired in 1996. I now carry a Glock model 21. I am fortunate to have a nationwide retired law enforcement handgun permit. I work in and lived near a city that had 300 murders per year and, as of last week, has had 93 murders. With all respect to different points of view, I'll just keep doin' what I've' been doin'!

[messenger13]

Nice!

I don't own any 'real' guns. But I will soon. Before Chris' government takes that right away from me.

[BUGKILLER]

Nice!

I don't own any 'real' guns. But I will soon. Before Chris' government takes that right away from me.

Allow me to make a few suggestions.Something small to deal with those pesty rabbits in the garden...The BFR by Magnum Research .In .50 cal it actually removes the fur and bones leaving the rabbit ready for the stove.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/BFR_long-Cyl-w-Mount_t.jpg
And for dinner parties it's automatic cousin The Desert Eagle.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/DE_MattBlack.jpg

[midwilshire]

"There are liars, damned liars, and statistics." --Mark Twain

Maybe I'm a heartless cad, but these factoids, if true, do little to convince me that having guns in our homes is bad.

5 children were killed every day in gun related accidents and suicides committed with a firearm, from 1994-1998. While I think Natural Selection is at work here, I wish 'accidents' were separated from 'suicides' so I knew how much weight to give my feelings of remorse for the children's accidents. I have no remorse for suicides.

A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense. Here we're conflating "shooting" with "injuries and deaths." Another misrepresentation of the statistician. We should be comparing unintentional injuries with intentional injuries. Accidental discharges that do nothing but damage one's Pergo flooring are outside the scope of the argument. If by "shooting" the author means "injuries," that should be made clear.

Studies show that guns in the home are the primary source for firearms that teenagers use to kill themselves. Actually, I read this as a polemic for the distribution of free firearms.

Toy guns and teddy bears have more federal manufacturing regulations than real guns. Manufacturing regulations? Are product defects at issue here? Assuming this factoid to be true, it is nevertheless inapposite.

Every day 79 people are killed by firearms in America. Ah, the biggest misrepresentation of the bunch. How many in deaths committed in self defense? How many by unregistered firearms in the hands of criminals? How many were committed by police officers? How many would there be if guns were totally banned? Facts floating in a contextual void are argumentatively inert.

To lay my cards on the table: I believe greater gun controls should be in effect, and all such controls should be in the area of licensing. I had to attend more training to buy my LT than my USP40. This is clearly in error. We should require more education & training before granting anyone permission to purchase a firearm. I was a primary marksmanship instructor (PMI) in the Corps, and we didn't even distribute live ammo to trained Marines until they had finished a refresher course.

And the training should not be limited to purchases - it should extend to lawmakers as well. Fear usually abrogates good logic on any topic, and the topic of 'guns' is no exception. If we had more statisticians and lawmakers who were facile with handguns, I think we'd have more effective statistics and laws thereby. Maybe then we'd have a week-long training session as a prerequisite to purchasing a firearm instead of the the dullards' rules, like "only let them carry 10 bullets at a time" or "hand-grips must be removed from your assault rifles" and other truly inane and ineffective ideas codified today.

A few years ago, someone from North Carolina told me that his state had just authorized concealed carry for anyone who wanted it. I'm curious how that little experiment turned out. Anyone from NC here?

[NeilnBob]

I celebrate it every day.

[hawg]

Another good one, Mark!!!

Got at least one of 'em and variations of a few others. In response to naysayers on this post...when my secretary found out that I carried, she said, "Guns are DANGEROUS!"

I responded, "Yes, I KNOW...that's why I BOUGHT it!"

'Nuff said.

[TomH]

I live in Nebraska and the State Legislature just passed a concealed carry law this year. So far no word on it's effect on society. Oddly enough, a loophole was left in the law that MAY let each city enact their own ban on concealed weapons. This would pretty much erase the State law. Courts are still working on that.

The law requires some minimal training with the weapon and of course you can't be an ex-felon or be under mental care.

While I don't carry myself, I do think it's funny in a state where in the rual areas nearly every farmers truck has a rifle or shotgun in the back window, that anyone could get so wound up about this issue. Not many farmers shooting anyone I guess! :-) To hear people who protested the law, it was a return to the Wild West.

Time will tell I guess.

(So what's my best buy for a concealed weapon? No firearm experience at all)

[BUGKILLER]

I ran across this BS today. It is a heads up from the NRA that the UN is going to try a global ban on firearms .Give it a listen if you are for or against firearm ownership.Once we've lost the guns they can take everything else as they please.
http://stopungunban.org/

[LTsaddledance]

(So what's my best buy for a concealed weapon? No firearm experience at all)

Can O worms there.
Current personal fav: Kel-Tec P-11 9mm

[petepeterson]

Best thing that ever happened to NC was the CC law... Just like in FL. they said it would turn into the wild west,,BUT it didn't, the criminals just moved to the airports and rent a car places.... NC has had no problems at all...

I don't have a CC permit because in NC you can carry a gun in your truck,, rifles in gun racks go year round,, handguns just have it up on the dash if you get stopped, perfectly legal...

KYChris02 and your stats are bogus and distorted which is nothing new if your an anti gunner type I expect people like me and midwilshire are rather disturbing...

I've raised 5 kids and now raising a bunch of grandkids with loaded guns in my house 24/7.... I taught my kids respect for fire arms.. besides to me its stupid to have a gun for protection if its locked up....

I have qualified expert with every handgun the Corps had, qualled expert with the M-14 and the M-16, hell I even qualled once with my derringer shooting 45 long colt and managed a sharpshooter score:D

There are I think as of right now 31 states that allow CC permits.. and no problems..Guns are not the problem, never have been never will be.. Its the person holding it,, or the person to scared to use it..

Anyway I have rambled enough.........Regards Pete


Oh yeah my gun of choice is an old 39-2...

[kosmo]

Airborne on the info petepeterson..we as a people need to stand tall and together in our village to educate, protect, and lock cross hairs on those who would harm our familes. I'm not one for the mindless killings of others but, when those who would do you harm, think that you may have a firearm they will think twice. It's proven !! Not all should have or be around weapons, it's just not to be.

[TandemCyclist]

Swimming pools kill 8 times more children every year with drowning than guns, let's outlaw pools... More people die every year from drunk driving than died the entire Viet Nam War, do we blame the cars or the booze...Smoking kills 3 times more than that every year.. Heart disease gets even more than that. Watch out Burger King. I am a gun owner,hunter,plinker,enthusiast and shade tree gunsmith.I live in California with all the maximum restrictions on assault rifles and handguns designed to curb crime and save lives.It's done nothing to the criminal element to curb violence. It all boils down to personal responsibility for the gun owner. The 99% of registered ,law abiding gun owners are penalized for the 1% criminal element and our jackass Sacramento blame game law makers.Gun laws are ineffective.

Put you on my make up BS list. Last time I checked 58191 US military died in Viet Nam. If we throw in bicycles and pedestrians and all those drivers that were no where near a drunk, in the worst year, 43005 died. Did you get that from an NRA publication.

Yea, I'm a vegetarian, like the environment, and hate pollution from smokers.
But, I would eat you to stay alive, blow your ass away with my sawed off 12 ga or Glock 26 if you entered my home uninvited, and not be pissed about the smoke, if we have to torch a hole pile of bodies in any epidemic, disaster, or terrorist attack. Now that's no BS.

Keep it real and sorta factual please.

Rick

[messenger13]

A thread about the diversity of one's wannabe gun collection turns into a thread of diverse people and their diverse thoughts on gun ownership.

Think I'll head back on over to the oil and tire threads. :D

[KYchris02]

no disrespect intended here....

death by bullet is a tough way to. not so much for the receiver... rather for the brother who shoots the little brother, or the dad who found his son has eaten a bullet, or the mom who attends the funeral of an accidental shooting, or the kid who's dad is in prison for popping some bar scum over a dart game..

argue the stats all day... this glorification of handguns is wrong. hell, more macho testo-maniacs die from motorcycles than handguns, I'm sure ... and I'm not saying outlaw motorcycles. my beef was with the original poster and now with all the others who, while preaching safety and self-responsibility, send a very different message to kids and other too stupid to tell the diffference between pulling a trigger on the game cube vs. pulling a real trigger.

I am not against the right to bear arms. Keep your guns, keep 'em locked up, teach your kids how to safely operate them, and if a bad guy threatens you and yours let 'em have it... just keep the chest thumping down. It is very scary to see so many gun guys overcompensating thru their boasting about gun ownership.

no disrespect...

[messenger13]

Would somebody loan me a gun please...
...just for a minute.

[BUGKILLER]

Put you on my make up BS list. Last time I checked 58191 US military died in Viet Nam. If we throw in bicycles and pedestrians and all those drivers that were no where near a drunk, in the worst year, 43005 died. Did you get that from an NRA publication.

Yea, I'm a vegetarian, like the environment, and hate pollution from smokers.
But, I would eat you to stay alive, blow your ass away with my sawed off 12 ga or Glock 26 if you entered my home uninvited, and not be pissed about the smoke, if we have to torch a hole pile of bodies in any epidemic, disaster, or terrorist attack. Now that's no BS.

Keep it real and sorta factual please.

Rick
In reading my post I did miss- type. I am fully aware of how many died in Viet Nam. My original point was that 17,000 people per year die from drunk driving. 170,000 in the same 10 year period of the war. My mistake.
When you start talking about eating people and burning bodies my BS meter starts to peak.

[midwilshire]

... just keep the chest thumping down. It is very scary to see so many gun guys overcompensating thru their boasting about gun ownership....You present a valid point - one that I suspected as the probable motivation behind your original post.

I also suspect that you aren't so "scared" by the adolescent feather-spreading as merely amused and somewhat chagrinned at the lack of sophistication said behavior belies. Those anti-chest-thumping judgments came out, though, as they frequently do, in the form of anti-gun arguments. This is just as misguided as the boyish belief that one needs a .50 cal. sniper rifle for home security.

I think that, if pressed again, you'd concede that the chest-thumping is really the only problem here, and that its negative effects are limited to an online bulletin board comprised of grumpy old coots who ride beemers. In that light, you might as well let us* have our fun in one of the few forums remaining for modern man to engage in such basal enterprises.

(*Note: I use the inclusive term "us" on the presumption that I possess sufficient grumpiness and cootship to compensate for any shortcoming in years.)

[hawg]

Yahoooo!!!

We done got us another gun thread!!! Been awhile, though. Much better'n a oil thread IMHO....

[KYchris02]

You present a valid point - one that I suspected as the probable motivation behind your original post.

I also suspect that you aren't so "scared" by the adolescent feather-spreading as merely amused and somewhat chagrinned at the lack of sophistication said behavior belies. Those anti-chest-thumping judgments came out, though, as they frequently do, in the form of anti-gun arguments. This is just as misguided as the boyish belief that one needs a .50 cal. sniper rifle for home security.

I think that, if pressed again, you'd concede that the chest-thumping is really the only problem here, and that its negative effects are limited to an online bulletin board comprised of grumpy old coots who ride beemers. In that light, you might as well let us* have our fun in one of the few forums remaining for modern man to engage in such basal enterprises.

(*Note: I use the inclusive term "us" on the presumption that I possess sufficient grumpiness and cootship to compensate for any shortcoming in years.)

LOL! Well said my cootish coleague. I, too, enjoy the chance boldly step upon the box of soap every so often.

[DaveDragon]

You present a valid point - one that I suspected as the probable motivation behind your original post.

I also suspect that you aren't so "scared" by the adolescent feather-spreading as merely amused and somewhat chagrinned at the lack of sophistication said behavior belies. Those anti-chest-thumping judgments came out, though, as they frequently do, in the form of anti-gun arguments. This is just as misguided as the boyish belief that one needs a .50 cal. sniper rifle for home security.

I think that, if pressed again, you'd concede that the chest-thumping is really the only problem here, and that its negative effects are limited to an online bulletin board comprised of grumpy old coots who ride beemers. In that light, you might as well let us* have our fun in one of the few forums remaining for modern man to engage in such basal enterprises.

(*Note: I use the inclusive term "us" on the presumption that I possess sufficient grumpiness and cootship to compensate for any shortcoming in years.)

Hey I resemble that remark http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/2guns.gifhttp://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/kali.gifhttp://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/smilie_shoot.gifhttp://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/2ar15smilie.gifhttp://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/images/smiles/gun_bandanasmilie.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':shooting:'))http://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/images/smiles/shooting_smilie2.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':shooting2:'))

[Rush1517]

WOW!!! Another snore fest.... Well actually some of you guys are hilarious

You do not want to get me started... AGAIN!!

[KBandit]

i invite all of you to consider the wisdom of arguing gun laws with people who love carrying and shooting them ...

[midwilshire]

i invite all of you to consider the wisdom of arguing gun laws with people who love carrying and shooting them ...So, I'm sitting around waiting for my lunch meeting to start today, and I decide to kill a few minutes by considering that wisdom, as invited. I've determined that this wisdom would be analogous to the wisdom of arguing motorcycling laws with people who love motorcycles.

...and it [the Oregon law restricting lanesplitting] darn sure ought to be changed. no reason for it not to be. (emphasis added)speaking for myself, i bought an '03 LT new and, although i love the bike, i feel PLENTY ignorant ... for not buying used and letting someone else take the Big Hit.... (emphasis added) [I am] 48. a rider since age 13. (emphasis added)

:D :D

[KBandit]

i guess i was not clear enough in my first post. please pardon me and allow me to explain.

i have fairly strong feelings regarding guns and gun laws, but i learned long ago (after a death threat on another board) that it does not pay to argue with people who are passionate about concealing and shooting guns, because while most are responsible, law-abiding citizens, it only takes one who is not to ruin your whole damn day. so i don't debate this particular issue on a public forum.

i also make it a point to NOT debate religion (although i sometimes lapse) because it is a zero-sum game.

but i do vote.

clear now?

[Texas42]

i guess i was not clear enough in my first post. please pardon me and allow me to explain.

i have fairly strong feelings regarding guns and gun laws, but i learned long ago (after a death threat on another board) that it does not pay to argue with people who are passionate about concealing and shooting guns, because while most are responsible, law-abiding citizens, it only takes one who is not to ruin your whole damn day. so i don't debate this particular issue on a public forum.

i also make it a point to NOT debate religion (although i sometimes lapse) because it is a zero-sum game.

but i do vote.

clear now?

Gun threads never seem to impart any actual information just a lot of noise, and hostile feelings, now lets get back to which tire is the best, or I need to change my oil is it time for synthetic, something we can all disagree about, but at least listen to each other.

:confused:

[meese]

We done got us another gun thread!!!After that opening post, I could've written the entire thread myself, both sides, just from memory. :)

[Zotter]

I still think it's a cool poster.

Freedom of choice - only one of the things us Penguin Farmers get on about :thumb:

[mconlogue]

I still think it's a cool poster.

Freedom of choice - only one of the things us Penguin Farmers get on about :thumb:


I totally agree with you! (damn, a wintel MCSE and MCT (teacher!) at that! agreeing with a Linux guy)

I have had 2 of the pistols personally, along with several that were not on the poster. I had not planned on a 'right to bear arms..' post, but, what the hell! as my dear old (DEPARTED) dad used to say, "FU*K them! if they can't take a joke!"

[lanugo]

The most important argument for the liberal personal ownership of guns is that the day may come when its time to throw the tea overboard again. In other words an armed populace is the best protection against an overly oppressive government. The framers were very bright.