High gear roll on - Rocket III vs. K12R

[bob_menton]

Frank Shockley @ Touring Sport BMW took a Triumph Rocket III in trade – thus forming the basis of a high gear roll-on test. I’m sure Frank got someone else to ride this, since he wouldn’t ride so irresponsibly on the public roads. On a remote section of Rte. 11 in upstate SC (good road, low traffic, 5 mile straightaway, usually not patrolled), two unnamed riders got side-by-side on a Rocket III and a BMW K12R. From 50 mph in top gear, they whacked the throttles wide open. The two bikes stayed even up to 110 mph, after which the K12R started to pull ahead. Frank …. ahhh, “unnamed rider” got back to Touring Sport without a speeding ticket.



So if you want to own the high gear roll-on champ, the Rocket III ain’t it.



- Bob

[dshealey]

The problem is that "high gear roll on" tests of disparate bikes is actually VERY meaningless. There were "high gear roll on" tests in one magazine between the LT and GL 1800, of course the GL "won", with it's high torque at lower RPM. However, at 60 MPH if an LT rider was going to do that in real life, he would not be in high gear! The GL may elect to stay in high, or not. 60 MPH acceleration tests between the two bikes with experienced riders should not specify a gear to use. I have read articles/posts about the LT and GL where the riders accelerated from 60 to 100 (no gear specified, "real world" riding), and it was either very close, or the LT won by a little. The tests should be "60 MPH Roll on", in the gear deemed best for each particular bike being used for that particular point in time.

[bob_menton]

I hear you, David, but there's still a lot of folks who want to know what a bike will do in a high gear only roll-on, regardless of whether that's the (performance-wise) best gear to be in at the start of the exercise.

- Bob

[KBandit]

The problem is that "high gear roll on" tests of disparate bikes is actually VERY meaningless. There were "high gear roll on" tests in one magazine between the LT and GL 1800, of course the GL "won", with it's high torque at lower RPM. However, at 60 MPH if an LT rider was going to do that in real life, he would not be in high gear! The GL may elect to stay in high, or not. 60 MPH acceleration tests between the two bikes with experienced riders should not specify a gear to use. I have read articles/posts about the LT and GL where the riders accelerated from 60 to 100 (no gear specified, "real world" riding), and it was either very close, or the LT won by a little. The tests should be "60 MPH Roll on", in the gear deemed best for each particular bike being used for that particular point in time.

i have to disagree. i like TORQUE. the reason i prefer bigger bikes is that you don't have to tap-dance on the shifter. and the best way to measure torque is with roll-on.

that K1200R must be stout to stay with the rocket. keep in mind, though, that the rocket probably outweighs it by about 300 lbs.

[dshealey]

I hear you, David, but there's still a lot of folks who want to know what a bike will do in a high gear only roll-on, regardless of whether that's the (performance-wise) best gear to be in at the start of the exercise.

- Bob

But how does it relate to how any particular bike will actually be ridden in the real world, compared to others?

I still don't see how comparing apples and oranges does either any good, except that the people who happen to like the winner will say "See, mine is best."

It can certainly be a good test between LIKE bikes to see if modifications worked, or if something may be amiss on one, but between totally different bikes, with differnt gearing and even different types of engines? Pretty meaningless to me.

[messenger13]

keep in mind, though, that the rocket probably outweighs it by about 300 lbs.Not even 200...but nice try.

And I'll race either of those bikes. But, I'm sorry folks, messenger13 knows how to use a shifter. Last I checked, shifting is part of motorcycling. Anyone who doesn't want to shift...might-as-well ride a tractor! And, oh my! Would you look at that! The Triumph looks like a tractor anyway! :D :D :D

[dshealey]

i have to disagree. i like TORQUE. the reason i prefer bigger bikes is that you don't have to tap-dance on the shifter. and the best way to measure torque is with roll-on.

that K1200R must be stout to stay with the rocket. keep in mind, though, that the rocket probably outweighs it by about 300 lbs.

Unless I was on open highway just cruising along I rarely sifted to 5th gear until 65-70 on the LT. I still feel that a roll on between two completely different bikes should not be relegated to ONLY high gear, especially when one's high gear is an overdrive like the LT. That may automatically put one bike at a disadvantage, proving little or nothing.

Kinda like taking a bite each out of unpeeled apple and orange. See, I told you apples tasted better!

[Undecided]

My K1200R at 60 mph is so far down on the power curve - circa 3800 rpm in 6th, that a roll on test like this is kind of weird. My rev limiter activates at 11,500 rpm.

On a two lane, I'll drop to 4th and blister the object needing to be passed :)

[jkersh1]

It's not the gear it's how you use 'em. Appropo of nothing, but this reminds me of the time my cousin let his brother, who was visiting from out of state, borrow his K12RS. My cousin rode his Duc and they proceeded to burn up the highways. When they got back into town cousin #1 says, "what'd think about that 6th gear?" Sheepish cousin #2 "6th gear?" long pause "Maybe that's why it felt a little buzzy at 120."

[davek100rt]

Gentlemen, I suspect this high gear roll on as I see it, is as is said a roll on test with each in high gear. In 1981, I did such a test on two big machines, the gold wing ('80)and a Kawasaki KZ1300 ('79). I wanted to know the power to accelerate for 60 mph and up. The Gold Wing was smooth and reliable. The Kaw would almost snap your neck and accelerate past 140. This was the emergency power I wanted. There may come a time when I may not have the time to downshift. For those who haven't heard of the KZ1300, its an inline six, 700+ pounds, and 120 horses. Which did I buy? There is one just like it at the Barber Museum in Alabama.

[KBandit]

But how does it relate to how any particular bike will actually be ridden in the real world, compared to others?

i can only speak for myself. i spend the majority of my time rolling into and out of the throttle without shifting, and for me a strong torque surge is very satisfying.

granted, if i want a burst of acceleration, such as for passing, i will shift into the correct gear, and take advantage of it. but most of the time, like in a winding canyon road, i tap into torque, not horsepower. i prefer not to do a lot of tap dancing.

but that's just me ...

maybe it comes from my early years of flat-track racing a bultaco 100 cc sherpa s. that bike came with an engine only a masochist could love. made zero power except in a very narrow range at the very top. you HAD to shift a lot to keep momentum.

when i moved to motocross on a 250 elsinore i learned the value of low-rpm torque (and light weight ... for it's day). i was hooked.

guess i'm just a torque kinda guy.