Metzeler 880 losses traction?

[O_o]

I might be the first to admit that on the accessories page noted that the Metzeler 880's sacrifices traction over high mileage. I would have to disagree, if it is given that these are the mileage king then let it be but to say these have less traction than the BT020 is highly mistaken. I just installed a new set of these and did a 540-mile ride through Sonora and Ebbetts Pass just southwest of Lake Tahoe. And as an avid racetrack rider with a sportbike I can assure you I would know when traction is limited and these did not. Infact, if these were high mileage tires then it would be considered a very hard compound tire irregardless of the sidewall structure. Also when tires are new and have been heated up the chemicals in the tire will essentially blend in together to create the adhesion properties for tires to work better. Anyhow on this "spirited" ride through the scenic valleys and mountain ranges I have yet to feel the front or rear tire give any indication that it was loosing its traction. I was so impressed with it I pushed the bike (since the k1200lt acts like a sportbike) to a 7/10th pace keeping up with other riders with an Aprillia RSV-R, Honda VFR750, and Suzuki SV650. Funny thing was that my only limitation was an angular deficiency. I may be the only one to admit this but I love the k1200lt and I love to push the bike to its limit being in 4th gear at 5K rpm on a 35 mph turn.

Overall I just wanted to share my experiences on the 880's and debunk the myth. Thanks

[ATFLT]

I have to pretty much agree with you. In 7,200 miles with my set of 880's-some in the rain-I have had no problems. They look like they probably have that many miles left. Many people claim the 880's don't have as much traction as other brands. They may be right when pushed to the limit. I have only used the Excedra's that came with it and the Dunlop 205's but I had no problems with either of those except for mileage. They may push it harder than you do. I know there are many that push the limits more than I do. All I can say for sure is that the 880's work fine for me and unless someone comes up with something that lasts longer I will replace them with new ones when the time comes.

[messenger13]

I have no issue with their traction. But the way they growl in the twisties is NOT very confidence-inspiring. They sound like they're ready to fly apart. Then there's their profile. Once you've ridden an LT with radials, the Metzelers feel very BLAH. You really have to push the bike down, instead of it falling naturally.

Currently, I am running a sets of Metzelers. My next set will be the new Bridgestone bias-ply 020s. I'm hoping they won't delaminate like the B'Stone radial 020s . . . and I've heard their profile is very radial-like. We'll see.

[eljeffe]

I originally had the BT-010's which stuck like glue. Then because the BT-010s wore out so quick (3500 miles), I tried the ME 880s. The ME880 was the scariest tire I have ever ridden on. Slips and slides on tar snakes, was terrible on wet roads, and was downright dangerous if you ever were to hit a wet lane stripe in a corner. After that, every tar snake, every wet road, and even the painted lane stripes could became a mental pucker moment. I lost confidence in them quickly and went back to the BT-020. I've never looked back. Nearly 70K miles on BT-020s and no problems (except that I only get 7000-8000 miles out of a set). I'll sacrifice mileage for better traction any day.

[O_o]

My old set of 880 did growl on turns but this is with the original owner and as you can expect the center is mostly used and there are chicken strips exsist on both of them. I would have to assume that the growling noise is generated by the resulted odd profile of the tyre. We'll see if it happens on another 2k miles of twisty roads. As for pushing the bike to its limit I would fairly say that can push the bike to its limit possibly more than most. I could scrape the bike so often that on the trip, I could hear it get louder and louder so I raise the angle of the bike a little and "hang-off" the bike just to give it that extra room but it still scrapes. I am thinking of removing the centerstand to increase the lean angle but I'll see it it is worth it. Thanks for the comments.

[O_o]

I originally had the BT-010's which stuck like glue. Then because the BT-010s wore out so quick (3500 miles), I tried the ME 880s. The ME880 was the scariest tire I have ever ridden on. Slips and slides on tar snakes, was terrible on wet roads, and was downright dangerous if you ever were to hit a wet lane stripe in a corner. After that, every tar snake, every wet road, and even the painted lane stripes could became a mental pucker moment. I lost confidence in them quickly and went back to the BT-020. I've never looked back. Nearly 70K miles on BT-020s and no problems (except that I only get 7000-8000 miles out of a set). I'll sacrifice mileage for better traction any day.

Sorry to hear that you have experienced that but I rode through 32 degree weather at a 9K elevation and running through the stripes as well (not that often though) and didn't feel the 880 lost its traction. Possibly you need to raise the preload to stiffen up the bike to reduce the sag.

http://www.geocities.com/blue_r6/Tahoe/Brrr.jpg

And just for fun. This is an indication on what we had to deal with on the roads as well.
http://www.geocities.com/blue_r6/Tahoe/IceIceBaby.jpg

[fredthead]

I also have had slipping problems over tar snakes and a rare slip on wet roadswith the 880's. Since I am aware of this I compensate for these conditions and take the high milage.

[Brainfry]

Try a set of 020's on your LT some time and get back to me.

B

[O_o]

Try a set of 020's on your LT some time and get back to me.

B


I sure will when I wear the 880 off :D But if I know someone who has 'em and would allow me to test ride it. I'll let you know.

BTW: Glad you are also another trackrider. Why sell you SV? Those are great bike to ride and race. I rode one and could kick the liter bike off the track :laughing.

[Brainfry]

I sure will when I wear the 880 off :D But if I know someone who has 'em and would allow me to test ride it. I'll let you know.


Cool... I'd be curious to see what you think...(pros and cons to both) it's tough to find LT riders that truly flog 'em in the twisties.


B

[kellenbenz]

I have to agree O-o on this one. I have put about 110K on Metzelers and 12K on Bridgestones ( both Exedras and Bt 020's) The only slips I have had on the Metzelers were in loose gravel or oil spots where you would expect a slip. Never on a tar snake or centerline(we aren't suppose to ride on those are we Eljeffe). I may not ride as aggressive as some on this board, but I sure don't hold back. I do use common sense in wet weather and slow my habits. As for handling, I found that both brands deteriorate as they wear. To compare a worn out set of Metzelers to a new set of BT 020's is ludicrous.

Ron

[Brainfry]

I sure will when I wear the 880 off :D But if I know someone who has 'em and would allow me to test ride it. I'll let you know.

BTW: Glad you are also another trackrider. Why sell you SV? Those are great bike to ride and race. I rode one and could kick the liter bike off the track :laughing.



... nice little ambulance ride off the track after a not so nice little crash in a race last year.

[Rockdoc]

I'm on my second set of Metzeler 880s and I'm generally happy with their grip and mileage. In the UK I've never had any kind of moment, even in the wet, but when I've been in France wet weather has made Katie twitch on white lining. I can only put it down to different materials being used. If there are alternatives available, I'd guess different States could use different ones and give the variations in experience we're hearing in this thread.

Keith

[grifscoots]

it's tough to find LT riders that truly flog 'em in the twisties.


B

Huh? What you talking about, Willis?:rolleyes:

I also wondered why the original poster was only running 5g RPMs flogging thru a corner.

[TWheels]

I have Metzlers on my 05 and have been very satisfied with them. No traction problems in the wet or when riding hard and fast. As a member of DA, I do want to respond to Joe's comment about "falling naturally". I don't think this has ever been a problem with the LT.

Ride Safe
Peter

[O_o]

... nice little ambulance ride off the track after a not so nice little crash in a race last year.

Ouch... Sorry to hear that. Glad you're OK.

[O_o]

Huh? What you talking about, Willis?:rolleyes:

I also wondered why the original poster was only running 5g RPMs flogging thru a corner.

I was flogging through 30mph turns from approx 60 mph at a close to a 90 degree/chambered on 4th gear at 5K Rpm. The bike reacts much better than 3rd gear. The chassis reacts (breaks lose) at 3rd gear when engine breaking = not good for stability. :D Try it if you'd like and let me know, but I'm not responsible for any results. ;)

[mjordans2000]

I argee with Eljeffe. The slippage is noticable on the 880's. That isn't to say some won't notice or care about it. My R100 GSPD came with Metzler Sahara's which also are a thrill on tar snakes. After a few thousand miles I some how learned to compensate and no longer notice it. That doesn't mean it's gone away or is no longer an issue. I may not worry about it anymore but I still follow safe practices when the snakes are present. I probably should have changed to a different tire years ago but liked the looks and the better then average dual sport capabilities. I was pissed when Metzler stopped making them. If you like the 880's and they work for you great. But tire physics still dictate a harder compound isn't going to have the traction of a softer compound and most BT users swear by it's wet capabilities.

[Brainfry]

Grif,

Just cause I haven't found any, doesn't mean that there AREN'T any... :)

B

[tony]

Overall I just wanted to share my experiences on the 880's and debunk the myth. Thanks

I have to agree that I like the 880's as well. I get great handling and they last a long time. It is true that they howl as the miles get up there but it is worth it.

[KBandit]

ahhh ... you have discovered the natural habitat of the BMW ... the high mountain passes. i have been through both ebbett and sonora passes on my LT in the company of sport bikes, and the LT really holds its own up there. the heavy flywheel, upright seating position, rock-solid stability and remarkable agility (for a bike that size) make it a GREAT bike in the high sierra.

i also love metzeler. people have complained about wet-weather traction but i have no such complaints, because i tend to slow down when it rains.

;-)

[BillyOmaha]

the Bridgestones are better.... in the stickiness department.

Howdy Bruce,

I agree with you on your assesment of the Metzelers. At temperature on dry pavement with "cold" tar snakes they will let you take the LT to it's angular limit (not sure how each of us would define that, for me it's the center stand scraping after the rubber bumper has been trimmed).

What some of us have experienced is that when the surface is wet, or it has "warm to hot" tar snakes the Metzelers will compel the rider to reduce the pace more so than the Bridgestones and focus excessively on avoiding tar snakes.

All things being equal the Metzelers are good and give better mileage, but the Bridgestones give better all around adhesion at the cost of some mileage.


.

[O_o]

Billy,

Love that new R picture ;)

[CharlieVT]

The Metzs' are good tires, no doubt. And opinions are based on subjective riding expriences (I don't see anyone with coefficient of friction data here ;)

I rode my "Stone" Excedras until they wore out early. Then rode Metzs' for a couple of sets. I have been through several sets of stone 020s since.

I ride kind of aggressively on twisties that I know well. The metzs' do seem to drift a little more on a clean road surface when pushing speed and lean angle than the stones which seem a little stickier. The differences seem especially true on wet roads, tar snakes, and road markings. Even so the metzs' are good tires IMO. I didn't care for the noise and vibration that the Metzs' gave off when they were a bit worn and feathered. I'll stick (pun:) with the stones and change 'em more often.

[Russ]

"The Metzs' are good tires, no doubt. And opinions are based on subjective riding experiences (I don't see anyone with coefficient of friction data here..."

Good comment.

When comparing/contrasting tires, the words "pace", "aggressive", "hard-charging", "spirited", "flogging" etc... mean nothing to me. Tell me the SPEED you ride at that allows you to make judgements as to why brand X tire did (or did not) work for you.

For me, when riding plus or minus 5 mph of the posted speed limits AND riding a bit slower when it was raining, I never ever lost traction on any road surface with my 880's on either my LT or my RT. When I wear out my Dunlops on my Street Glide, the replacement tires will be 880's.

regards

[Stoker100]

OK, I am going to throw my .02 in.

I am a new LT rider, coming from sport bikes like vmax, ZR1, KZ1000 etc.

I love the way the LT handles, far superior to anything I have ridden to date.

But I did imeadiately notice the growl in corners, squirreling over what you guys call tar snakes, and a really wierd feeling when I go over white strips on intersections! I drive pretty aggresive

Don't really know what I think about the white stripes. Just remember going over them in dry pavement and thinking to myself, that was strange, need to watch that on wet pavement!

Now that I know all of this is the METZ tires, thats now fills my wonderment. I still like it and can live with it, doesn't seem like a safety issue yet, although I haven't driven in the rain. I always respect white lines in intersections in the rain!

larry

[dshealey]

"Debunk" all you want, but the 880 has MUCH less WET traction than the BT020 rear. Many of us will attest to that fact. I will never put 880s on an LT again, mostly due to the wet traction issue, but partially due to the better handling for me using the BT020s. I never had dry slips, except on tar snakes, using the 880s, but had several wet slips on the one set. Several sets of BT020s with NO slips other than just one that was very explainable, and had I been more alert would have inticipated it.

[O_o]

I don't see anyone going even no a 4th or 5th pace on a wet condition irregardless of what tire you have. It may have better rain threads but you will always, always deal with hydroplaning irregardless on what brand. Lord knows even AMA pro or Moto GP (if you follow them) don't even push it on their specialized rain tire (which is also a very soft compound). So my statement of "Debunk" is what it is. It is just common sense.

[meese]

Sure, it all boils down to personal preference. Some guys are comfortable with the ME880s for their riding level and experience, some aren't. I hated them for many of the reasons mentioned above. Slips on painted lines and tar snakes (some roads are more tar than asphalt, so you can't always avoid them), much worse wet weather traction (even in light rain with little chance of hydroplaning), and the feeling that the bike was sluggish, and needed to be forced into hard corners.

As for new versus old, I replaced a rear BT020 Radial that was down to the wear bars with a new ME880 Bias tire, and the bike immediately felt worse. When I replaced the front BT020 with an ME880 a couple hundred miles later (the first shop was out of fronts), it felt just a bit worse again. I hated those tires for the next 8K miles until I finally pulled them off and replaced them with the BT020 Bias tires. These are much better than the ME880, but still didn't feel as good as the BT020 Radials.

I average 15K miles from a front Avon Radial, and 9K from a rear BT020 Radial, and the bike feels great the whole time and can be pushed hard with confidence. That's good enough for me.

[meese]

I dunno about that. I've seen the Moto GP guys move pretty fast in the rain. Not near as fast as dry, but faster than I would've thought. It's all about being smooth.

As for street riding in the rain, I've had the ME880 tires consistently slip when I felt that I was being conservative, and the BT020 tires hold when I was pushing it probably more than I should have. So for me, on my bike, in conditions that I've experienced, the ME880s don't inspire confidence, where the BT020 tires do. If they work for you, then fine. Just don't expect each of us to have the same experience.

My other big complaint is that the ME880 tires tend to follow every little groove or ridge in the road, causing the bike to wiggle just a bit. That really sucks with our rain-grooved concrete freeways here in SoCal. The BT020 Radials have always tracked well and have never twitched, even when leaned over pretty hard through some rough roads.

As for different levels of riding and differing expectations of what's fast, I suppose we'll see at Road Atlanta next year. I'm sure looking forward to it. :)

[grifscoots]

I was flogging through 30mph turns from approx 60 mph at a close to a 90 degree/chambered on 4th gear at 5K Rpm. The bike reacts much better than 3rd gear. The chassis reacts (breaks lose) at 3rd gear when engine breaking = not good for stability. :D Try it if you'd like and let me know, but I'm not responsible for any results. ;)

Oh, I promise you, in the last five years I've pushed this bike to its limit. I reckon I'm a leetle confused. Engine braking in 3rd in a corner?

[grifscoots]

Grif,

Just cause I haven't found any, doesn't mean that there AREN'T any... :)

B

See you on Road Atlanta at next year's CCR!;)

[BillyOmaha]

As for different levels of riding and differing expectations of what's fast, I suppose we'll see at Road Atlanta next year. I'm sure looking forward to it. :)

Probably because there won't be any BUFFALO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD like there were at this years CCR :eek:
65 mph in a posted 45 mph corner has NEVER, EVER demanded so much concentration!! But it was fun :D


.

[Brainfry]

Speaking of MotoGP in the wet... if you've noticed over the season... that's where Bridgestone's actually shine... (pardon the sun pun) Can't help it if the bikes and
riders can't take full advantage of 'em... (more the bikes)

B


And yes, I know they use different compounds than we and our
020's do... :)

[O_o]

Meese: "...Not near as fast as dry, but faster than I would've thought. It's all about being smooth.

As for street riding in the rain, I've had the ME880 tires consistently slip when I felt that I was being conservative, and the BT020 tires hold when I was pushing it probably more than I should have..."

Maybe that's the problem not being smooth. Even though the LT is plush and has a long wheelbase it still needs handlebar inputs.


Grif: "...Engine braking in 3rd in a corner?"

Yes engine breaking before the corner actually. Unlike most LT riders they could define "limit" as being 5th gear through a turn and maintaining throttle speed. Not sure if that is the norm, but for me the LT acts like a sportbike and follows my bar inputs thus I enjoy running the 1200cc motor gassing it through a turn. The LT though is geared funny thus for a spirited ride I find that 4th gear is a great compromise for a stable chassis and getting "on the gas". If you think that is nutz I wish someone could have taken a video of me and the wife on the back going through a "spirited" ride at about 7/10th. :D

[grifscoots]

I give up. See you at Road Atlanta.

[messenger13]

THIS (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=622) is going to be FUN FUN FUN!!! :D

[BillyOmaha]

OFF the CHARTin this thread!:(

Kinda makes me want to ride out to CCR '06, crank down the Ohlins and run a lap or two to see if I can keep up :confused:


.

[Gino]

Just to add "more flame to the fire" my current set (and ALL sets in the past) of tires are the ME880s. These seemed "slick" from the day I had them installed and have never performed (wet or dry) up to the standards of all of my previous ME880s, which I loved.

Not sure if it was a "bad run" of rubber or what (yes, the wheels are well balanced)... But, seems like a good time to try the BT020s once these run their course (probably another 3k or so...)

[amarider]

:rolleyes: - nuff said

[meese]

O_o (what a funny name),

I think we may have different expectations here. Tell you what, I won't comment on what you feel is 7/10ths, if you don't comment on what I consider smooth. Unless or until we actually get the chance to ride together, that is. The rest of it is just random babbling without any context or baseline to work from.

The bottom line is that some are comfortable on Bias tires, some prefer the Radials. Some people base that on what you may read on the 'net, and some base it personal experience.

I'm happy with my tire choices, and it seems you are, too. Seems simple enough.

[dshealey]

We are not talking racing here at all, but street riding on an LT. I had the several slips on the rear 880 in normal wet street riding conditions over the life of one set of them. Riding the same roads, same type of riding, I had enormous gain in confidence after switching to the radial BT020s. After the first day in twisties I was smiling and pushing the bike harder than I dreamed of doing with the 880s. Then after several sets and NO slips in wet, I was completely sold. So to me, better wet traction with the 020 over the 880 is FAR from a myth, so "debunking" seems that you are calling my 120,000 plus miles of experience a lie. Then for you to start comparing multiple riders long time street experiences to racing is apples and oranges.

There was no "myth" for you to debunk in the first place.

[O_o]

No prob Ken. BTW the screen name are Eyez O_o :D

[O_o]

DShealey there is a different. You can have a rider ride 300K miles on straight road or some twisty road and call themselves an very experienced rider. I've heard this enough when I teach MSF. I am not calling you a liar at all. I am just stating IN MY PERSPECTIVE AND RACING EXPERIENCE :D I can surely tell when a tire is loosing its traction. Not drifting or sliding, I mean loose its traction which is uncontrollable violent response of the rear or a sudden drop of adhesion of the front tire (if you look at the front's response). Drifting and sliding can be controlled and I don't consider them as lose of traction but a part of the tire's characteristic when an increased amount of pressure and revolution. :D

BTW: I don't consider myself an expert rider. If I did I'd be in the MotoGP. End Of Line.

[TonyWilliams]

I concur with the 4th gear 5000 rpm turns !!!! Just gotta get that darn main stand out of the way, and I need to have the gear shift slightly higher to get my foot under during left turns.

Too many times I've dragged my toes!!!!!

[TonyWilliams]

"Debunk" all you want, but the 880 has MUCH less WET traction than the BT020 rear.

When does it rain in San Diego????

[motorhead]

The roads I ride the LT on are "murder" to tires. 9K max on 880's, 6K max on radials.

880's handle pretty damm well on rough texture surface twisties .... BUT, are scarry as hell on tar snakes !! and wet surfaces.

Going back to radials.

Scott

[dshealey]

You spend time here, so you should know it does rain. Or did you take that day off? :D

This past year was a dry one compared to normal though. For those who do not know the area, we have about 6-8 inches of rain a YEAR. That all comes typically between November and April, with the rest of the year having typically NO rain at all. I commuted every day, so rode in enough rain here to see a pronounced difference in tires.

I did a lot of cross country riding though, so saw a lot of rain outside of SoCal.

[FA50Flyr]

OK. Next question: Reading the various threads, I get the impression that the 020 radials handle better than the bias 020's. I've got an 05 which delivered with the bias tires, as opposed to the previous years which list both types.

I've got about 16,000km (10,000miles) on them and the only issue right now is a seriously cupped front tire. I've been running 42/46 psi. I'm thinking of trying the radial 020's next. Any pros or cons?

[jayz9705]

I might be the first to admit that on the accessories page noted that the Metzeler 880's sacrifices traction over high mileage. I would have to disagree, if it is given that these are the mileage king then let it be but to say these have less traction than the BT020 is highly mistaken. I just installed a new set of these and did a 540-mile ride through Sonora and Ebbetts Pass just southwest of Lake Tahoe. And as an avid racetrack rider with a sportbike I can assure you I would know when traction is limited and these did not. Infact, if these were high mileage tires then it would be considered a very hard compound tire irregardless of the sidewall structure. Also when tires are new and have been heated up the chemicals in the tire will essentially blend in together to create the adhesion properties for tires to work better. Anyhow on this "spirited" ride through the scenic valleys and mountain ranges I have yet to feel the front or rear tire give any indication that it was loosing its traction. I was so impressed with it I pushed the bike (since the k1200lt acts like a sportbike) to a 7/10th pace keeping up with other riders with an Aprillia RSV-R, Honda VFR750, and Suzuki SV650. Funny thing was that my only limitation was an angular deficiency. I may be the only one to admit this but I love the k1200lt and I love to push the bike to its limit being in 4th gear at 5K rpm on a 35 mph turn.

Overall I just wanted to share my experiences on the 880's and debunk the myth. Thanks
You might have better luck having your opinion considered if you had a bit of personal information in your profile.
It's really hard for me to accept the opinions of a faceless, nameless, unknown quantity.

[meese]

Hey Bob,

I think the consensus is that you gotta try them for yourself and see how you like them.

[ksailor]

This may seem like a trivial matter, but I consider my recreation time precious. Changing 2 sets of tires a year rather than 1 set cuts into my riding time and pocket-book. So far I've had good luck with the Metz's (8K on the reark 11K on the front). Moderate riding style so I take it easy in the rain anyway.

[bustedknuckles]

I have never heard of anyone complaining that they low sided their LT with ME 880's on it in a corner because of lack of traction.
I have never heard of anyone losing control of their bike with ME 880's on a wet corner loaded with tar snakes either.
Everyone seems to have their own opinion about the brands of tires available for this machine. Am I missing something?
ME 880's my choice :eek:

[grifscoots]

I've heard of a few cutting washers out of their seats:D

[meese]

But Stephen, I have lost control of my LT with ME880's in a corner. I didn't dump the bike, because of luck combined with years of experience, but when the rear tire steps out suddenly and I have to fight to get the bike back under control, then I'd say that's a problem. I even had a front ME880 slip on me on a small country lane. It may have been tar snakes, or hydroplaning, or even cow poop, but it took me a few seconds to get the bike back under control and a few minutes to get myself unclenched.

I'm not saying the ME880's are worthless, or that the BT020's are perfect, but I gotta go with what works best for me. Everyone else has gotta make up their own minds.

Hm, don't we have a tires forum for just this sort of educated discussion?

[O_o]

You might have better luck having your opinion considered if you had a bit of personal information in your profile.
It's really hard for me to accept the opinions of a faceless, nameless, unknown quantity.

Done. :D

[messenger13]

Excellent resume there O_o! :cool: I really look forward to meeting you. You obviously sound like you're a constant student of motorcycling, as well as an instructor. You'll find many of your type in this forum. There's a good mix of track day guys, ex-dirtbike racers, LD'ers, and all the above. I wish I could afford more track time . . . and I wish I lived closer to better tracks. :o

Try to join us in Atlanta next August at CCR 2006. It's gonna be WILD! I guarantee it. I'll be loaning out my ZX-11 (for a small fee). hehe Not that it's the greatest track bike in the world...but it's fun. :D

[BillyOmaha]

Howdy O_o,

While I know your first name, I respect your desire to withold it and I won't use it again unless you put it in your profile. Although, I encourage you to do so.

In that vane, on this board we are personal in our communications in terms of respect and consideration (for the most part ;) ) and being open about who we are and where we're from, etc. helps the process.

After reading your bio and reading your thoughts on riding, I believe many of us would enjoy meeting up with you on, or off, the track to talk about riding and to ride. I haven't seen you post in the Northern California regional forum and would encourage you to introduce yourself there. We're a loose bunch and have many activities going on throughout the year all revolving around some aspect of riding.

Consider yourself welcome any time.


.

[O_o]

Thank you all. I appreciate the invite and would highly consider it. Though I do have a busy schedule with coaching and other activities. I will do my best to attend some of your functions and would like to share some insight that I have acquired.

[Steve_R]

We're a loose bunch and have many activities going on throughout the year all revolving around some aspect of riding.

Boy that's an statement you could fly a 747 through. :p :D :D :D :D

[BillyOmaha]

I have never heard of anyone losing control of their bike with ME 880's on a wet corner loaded with tar snakes either.
:eek:

Okay,if by "losing control", you mean that the bike slipped sideways in a corner in an "unexpected" manner, then you've just heard from one.

I've had a "pucker:eek: " moment, or two if count the front slip and then back tire slip separately, with hot "tar snakes". That is, before I knew better and then the slips became "expected" :rolleyes:


.

[PolishS]

I have no issue with their traction. But the way they growl in the twisties is NOT very confidence-inspiring. They sound like they're ready to fly apart. Then there's their profile. Once you've ridden an LT with radials, the Metzelers feel very BLAH. You really have to push the bike down, instead of it falling naturally.

Currently, I am running a sets of Metzelers. My next set will be the new Bridgestone bias-ply 020s. I'm hoping they won't delaminate like the B'Stone radial 020s . . . and I've heard their profile is very radial-like. We'll see.


The 05s are bias ply 020s aren't they? Has anyone seen a radial 020 next to it (to compare the profile)? I have 6k miles on my radial 020s and need to change them soon. Also, is there any difference in cost?

Thanks.

[ez_rdr55]

i took off the original bt020's at 4.2k for a 7k trip to CABO BABY and replaced with 880's. NOT VERY F'ING GOOD! Great milage 10k on the rear, but she-it: slippery, noisy poor handling. i liked the me-33/me-55 on my wideglide, but no way i will ever put another set on this k12lt...no...no...no! i say the 880's are dangerous!

[dshealey]

Glad to see another person with the same opinion as mine on these tires! Actually, there are quite a few of us who will not use 880s again. :D

[grifscoots]

Well David, you prolly already know how I feel, but let me expostulate some for the newer folks:


I ran exactly half a set of Metzlers. In other words, they were about half wore out when pulled off. I likes ripping the corners here in the hill country of Tejas. These tires felt like one's Honda used in the 70's. I just feel like not going down with some variable that I can control.

[DaveDragon]

The 880s just don't cut in the rain at all.
I also am not fond of tires that sing.
I consider the ride and all weather traction too important to take a step backwards with 880s.

[jameswnw]

Ya just wait until they wear alittle or you hit wet.

[Stoker100]

Being from Seattle, I can say I am an authority on wet. Maybe there is a difference in set-up?? I'll be at the wrench gathering this sunday with some others, so I will ask around, but my first ride in the wet on my 3/4 worn metzs was down right scary. They felt out of control most of the time. Floating around, sliding on manhole covers, white lines, steel expansion joints.... I hate em. Will need to be real careful.
I tend to drive agressive most of the time, but not in the rain, that sucks.
larry

[tvguy]

One think is for sure everyone has vast differences in riding conditions where ever their live. In the desert the 880's stick very well. The roads are great and the weather is great most of the time... Mental Note: If it's raining - drive your car!!! :alien:

[meese]

Mental Note: If it's raining - drive your car!!! :alien:

Or if it's too hot, or too cold, or if you just washed the bike and don't want to get it dirty . . . :)

Sorry, some of us use the LT as primary transportation and thus ride it year-round. I'm blessed with usually fine weather here in SoCal, but I didn't buy the LT to put around the neighborhood on pretty days only. My LT has seen many states and all kinds of weather. I'd rather that it just kept on going, as long as I did. Some of that requires proper setup (decent riding gear, regular care of the bike, good tires, and rider skills), but overall BMW has come up with an amazing package. Why leave it sitting in the garage when you can Just Ride It?

[tmgs]

I have no issue with their traction. But the way they growl in the twisties is NOT very confidence-inspiring. They sound like they're ready to fly apart. Then there's their profile. Once you've ridden an LT with radials, the Metzelers feel very BLAH. You really have to push the bike down, instead of it falling naturally.
.

Raise the air pressure Jo, you will like them fine IMHO

see myy post

Tom

[petepeterson]

Radials on an LT!!!??? That is the 1st thing my dealer checks when someone says they have a wobble.. Take the radial off the back wobble gone ALWAYS...
Under inflated radials on an LT in a curve can almost feel like the bars are going to do some tank slapping..

Bias 880's on the LT is as good as it gets,,anyway........Regards Pete

[dshealey]

--------Bias 880's on the LT is as good as it gets,,anyway........Regards Pete

Bull! Maybe for you, but there are a LOT of us who disagree wholeheartedly. I had one set of 880s that served as two sets in one. My first, and my last.

I NEVER had a wobbling problem using radial BT020s (100,000 miles worth). I did have it with the Avon radial rear, but solved that really quick by taking it off and going back to the BT020 radial.

[TMH]

I'm glad I read this thread. I just picked up my LT at the end of this January. Still complete newbie on the bike, with maybe less than 300 miles on it under my belt. But it has 880's on it, and it nearly dumped me when I was bringing it home from the dealer, before I even owned it!

Weather up over a short mountain (foothills) pass was spitting rain, but only enough to wet the ground. No pooling or flowing of water yet. I'm stoked about how the bike is handling on the road, and am probably going a little fast for the conditions, but I am not pushing it. Not my riding style. On a left-hand bend the bike suddenly wants to swap ends. Seems I hit PART OF a painted arrow in the roadway, and the back traction was GONE. A little counter-steer and a dab of the left foot kept me upright. Needless to say, I made the rest of the ride home with reduced confidence, and at a reduced pace, even when things were dry on the other side of the pass. And I didn't even need to change my drawers when I got home!

Now while I am a noob to the LT, I have some miles under my belt on big BMWs. I ride the RT daily wet or dry, and have never had the same happen on my Dunlops, nor did it ever happen on the K-GT. Wet or dry, paint or no paint, or on any tar snakes regardless of temperature. Only other time it happened was when I was scrubbing in a new set of Avons on the R12C.

With that said, I am now relieved that this is not a specific characteristic of the LT, but more likely of the Metz 880's. Life is too short and too precious. The 880's are not very worn, but I'm going to replace them soon with some 'stones. I intend to ride the LT long distances, in wet or dry (but not icy) conditions. Mileage on the 020's might be lower but control is EVERYTHING.

Tom

[meese]

Some guys are fine with the ME880s, some hate them. Y'all know where I stand. :)

One option is to swap the tires with BT020s and sell the low-mileage ME880s to another board member. Or just keep them in the garage as emergency backups.

One problem with the LT is that while the tire sizes are fairly standard, the rear wheel needs a reinforced tire to handle the LT's weight. A BMW dealer will usually have a tire in stock, though maybe not the brand you want, plus if it fails late Saturday you're usually trapped until Tuesday, that is if there's a dealership within several hundred miles of you.

I have some half-worn BT020s in the garage, as well as a couple of ME880 take-offs, and maybe even an Avon. I did have a tire begin to fail on an extended trip once, and had my brother pull a spare from my garage and ship it to my next destination. Shipping wasn't cheap, but it got me back on the road quickly and allowed me to finish the trip without worry.

I'd also offer the same service to another list member if they needed it. In fact, I can think of one guy who called another list member, who posted a query, and had a tire delivered the next day from another member who lived nearby. Now that's teamwork. :)

[TUSE]

... it's tough to find LT riders that truly flog 'em in the twisties.


B


I recently used my LT to help create a Sportbike Course for the military, and the LT (with 880s) performed superbly. As a matter of fact, I managed to out-do the lap times of many of the sport-bikes in the sessions.
Now, my point is that it is not all the tire, the weather/conditions or even the bike, a lot has to do with the riders techniques. The LT (like most BMWs) is EXTREMELY confidence inspiring, and you add to that a not just seasoned but experienced rider and what is a problem/scary issue to others is nothing in the hands of a person who has experience it and found a way to overcome. In that class, I was dragging my side stand on a concrete pad in the rain (proper heating of the tires make a world of difference). And in the dry, was able to (unfortunately) drag and grind holes in the lower fairings and black side guards... never lost traction

Would other brand/compounds of tires be able to hold better, probably (softer compound does provide better traction, U can not argue that), but those tires do not last anywhere near as long (I usually get 12-18K out of my 880s).

Get out there and take a class, talk to other type of riders, learn everything/anything you can... too many riders think they actually know how to ride because they have done it so long, but there is ALWAYS something we can learn (that may save our lives some day).

Mentor a rider, it is well worth your time and you may save a life and learn something in the process.

just my $.10 worth... thoughts...