I just might be a redneck . . .

[messenger13]

We have enjoyed redneck jokes for years, but it's time to take a reflective look at the core beliefs of a culture that values home, family, country, and God.

If I had to stand before a dozen terrorist threatening my life, I'd choose a half dozen or so rednecks to back me up. Tire irons, squirrel guns, and grit -- that's what rednecks are made of.

You might be a redneck if . . .

It never occurred to you to be offended by the phrase, "One nation, under God."
You've never protested about seeing the Ten Commandments posted in public places.
You still say "Christmas" instead of "Winter Festival."
You bow your head when someone prays.
You stand and place your hand over your heart when they play the National Anthem.
You treat American Veterans with great respect, and always have.
You've never burned an American flag.
You know what you believe and you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is listening.
You respect your elders and expect your kids to do the same.
You'd give your last dollar to a friend, and then forgot about it.

[NCoe]

By those definitions, I am definitely a redneck.

[dcwchfc]

There are not enough of us 'rednecks' in public office. The thoughts you express are basically those I grew up with, still follow, and wonder why everyone doesn't.
BTW Joe, when are you going to take credit for posing for Raffy's Year Round Riding T-Shirt???

[messenger13]

BTW Joe, when are you going to take credit for posing for Raffy's Year Round Riding T-Shirt???
Most of those guys that wear that shirt are just posers. The 'real' year round riders don't need NO STINKIN' T-SHIRT!!! :D

http://home.alltel.net/paulsey_dsl/messenger13/lt_or_sled.jpg

[early1]

You really need six of us???

[messenger13]

Just what kind of odds do you have to face before you're having fun?! :)

[eatanner]

... it's time to take a reflective look at the core beliefs of a culture that values home, family, country, and God.... Where is the reflection we are bringing to the table if we merely accept the "core beliefs" that have been handed to us without consideration for those they may exclude from the conversation, those issues that are more complex than slogan or "bumper sticker" piss-points, or which may threaten our sense of well-being and security?

If I had to stand before a dozen terrorist threatening my life, I'd choose a half dozen or so rednecks to back me up. Tire irons, squirrel guns, and grit -- that's what rednecks are made of.As I was growing up on a farm in Missouri I saw younger men without red necks because we took our shirts off as we did our chores. Our tan lines were lowered to our butts. It was a nod toward recreation and a subtle way of indicating we might prefer to be doing something else. Older men who had grown to appreciate the value of clothing that protects from the harsh rays of the sun, or who had given up the notion that toiling under the sun without a shirt was recreational, or who gave little or no time to boating or lounging at poolside, these men had red necks.

M. Scott Peck died recently, I believe. To him I attribute a notion that lodged in my head and I share here. Our modern times affords many of us the opportunity that was once only given the over-classes and that is this: We have discretionary time--recreational time if you please. This time affords us the opportunity for reflection or to look at something from a different perspective.

Redneck is essentially a shorthand for saying someone is tied to the land through toil and hence has no discretionary time for recreation or re-creation, which is the end result of reflection. Seldom are old men and women called "rednecks" perhaps in part because they have escaped the chains that tie them to toiling the land, have established for themselves places of reflection and exercise their mental and symbolic selves as surely as they exercised their physical selves through toil. They have escaped the burning rays of the sun through re-creational activities. We are pitiful indeed if any of us chooses to remain in chains when the opportunities for exercising other muscles calls to us. We remain as youths unaware that those harsh rays can lead toward cancers or simply lowers our tan-lines to our butts.;)

You might be a redneck if . . .

It never occurred to you to be offended by the phrase, "One nation, under God."
You've never protested about seeing the Ten Commandments posted in public places.
You still say "Christmas" instead of "Winter Festival."
You bow your head when someone prays.
You stand and place your hand over your heart when they play the National Anthem.
You treat American Veterans with great respect, and always have.
You've never burned an American flag.
You know what you believe and you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is listening.
You respect your elders and expect your kids to do the same.
You'd give your last dollar to a friend, and then forgot about it.
If I or anyone else begins to reflect on any of these ten items it might suggest that differientiation from what has been handed to us has begun to take place, without negating the cultural or personal values of those gifts of perspective and influence. If any of us have the time and inclination to do anything besides reading the list above and posting a "Yah, that's me!" sorta reply before returning to our toils, then we are probably wearing some type of protection from what "shines" down upon us and burns our necks red.:) Or at least I pretend that I do.:p

[meese]

Well said, Edgar.

And what if #8 conflicts with items 1 through 4? Does that make me wrong, for having my own core values and beliefs that are just as strong as any bumper sticker slogans, or does that invalidate the entire list, thus casting doubts on those who would rather have their values handed to them in a nice, neat package?

I don't think either of us is wrong, but I do have more respect for those who have come to their beliefs through introspection and personal reflection, rather than just following the crowd. I usually find those people are much more tolerant of alternative opinions, and much stronger when their beliefs are tested in the real world.

Sorry, but I just don't think I'll ever be a redneck.

Though it does conjure up amusing images of an LT up on blocks in the front yard, with an italicized #3 spray painted on the side fairing and the radio blasting out twangy country music. :)

[early1]

The road is long-------he ain't heavy he's --Edgar

Thanx man, quite honestly I'm was not quite as awake this am as you were.

[messenger13]

Not to worry Meese...you'll never be a redneck, accused, or confused as one.

All us rednecks knew what you wuz gonna type, before you typed it.

[meese]

Sure about that? I was sorta thinking of changing horses mid-race. ;)

I'm not against all that you posted, just some of the underlying assumptions. But then y'all knew that already. :)

[tmgs]

You are feaking insane!

no way am i riding in that crap.........

more than the once I already did <grin>

Of course it wasn;t taht bad, we onlyh had like 4" of snow when i came over the mountain, snow don't roll off your faceshield no sir it dont!

[tmgs]

Joe you have probably just insulted many on this board with your redneck relegious beliefs

and I've given my last dollar to a friend in need........ so i guess i ain;t no redneck no mo <g>

[bikesnumbnuts]

Did you know a welshman discovered America, his name was Prince Madog.
and guess what there,s a tribe of welsh speaking Indians living in America.
I wonder if you have ever heard of a village called Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllantysilliogogoch

In the text books for children it says Taffy was a liar and Taffy was a thief Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef.
Does that mean these red necks are all thieves and liars?.

[Bayliner2052]

Translates to...

Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.

[nbroca]

Maybe that's the reason he is the "Word of reason"...

[TandemCyclist]

Well I was brought up in Alabama in the 50s-60s as a Redneck and number 1 "actually" had to do with a person of a different color. Fortunately I survived, opened my eyes, and grew up not to be a Redneck. #8 I've burned flags 4 times in my life. 3 because they were worn and tatered and 1, three days after I had just spent 5 years 5 months and 1 hour as one of those veterans. So do you still respect me.

#1 - #5 That's your business, just don't try to push it on me.

I finally found a reason to go back to Alabama this winter, other than visit family, defeat Roy Moore.

[messenger13]

Hear Hear! Number ONE is MY business. Just don't take "One nation, under God." out . . . and I promise not to get mad when you don't say it.
Just sad...that's all. Just sad...

(Why's it getting so hot? . . . and what are we all doing in this basket anyway?!)

[meese]

And I won't get mad if you choose to say it, even when it is taken out. See how easy that was?

As for the hand basket, if you don't believe in god, heaven, or hell, then there really is nothing to worry about, now is there? Just enjoy the ride.

[messenger13]

And I won't get mad if you choose to say it, even when it is taken out. See how easy that was?
See?! You not happy unless you're taking something AWAY from me. Something that I hold dear to my heart. Thank you for YOUR tolerance. Or does tolerance only count when you're the one using the word? What's wrong Ken...can't you "tolerate" the word God? Can't you "tolerate" the fact that I want to say it? Can't you "tolerate" the fact that my kids want to pray in school? Can't you "tolerate" anything? Hhmmmn...

Didn't think so...

[meese]

I never said that you couldn't say it, or believe it, or teach your kids as you please. But the phrase was added later by well-meaning individuals who couldn't tolerate people who chose not to say it. They felt no regret and in fact were proud of the fact that they were able to force their own beliefs on the majority. That doesn't sound very tolerant to me.

Assuming that everyone believes the same as you do is usually incorrect. Forcing them to behave or believe the same as you is just plain wrong, no matter how many people happen to agree with you.

C'mon Joe, you knew we'd end up here when you first posted that, right?

[messenger13]

Well...I've heard you spew that inaccuracy before and just let it go...but not in MY thread! :) The ORIGINAL pledge DID have "One nation under GOD" in it. Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge. He was a Christian, for crying out loud. Of course it was in there. And you're trying to say it was added LATER?!? You're smokin' crack there Ken. C'MON! The only thing that was added later was the freakin' COMMA! It's supposed to be "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" . . . NOT, "One nation , (pause) under God".

There! Now you have been enlightened and informed correctly. Quite spreading lies and gossip...and reading the LA Times! :p

And...stop trying to change my values and let me worship God as I pledge my allegiance to the US Flag. ...and all the Christian Fore Fathers that died so that you can live here freely, and burn the flag.

Why all the hate, Ken? Why all the hate?

[early1]

Hey----- you two did't even grow up with your necks red from the pea patch.
Why don't you both say --Goodnight Gracie

[Chick]

Wow. . . interesting thread! Don't know whether or not I qualify as a red neck, but I sure agree with Joe about God.

Seems as if Jesus saw this coming in the Gospel of John 15:18-25.

[rixchard]

Well...I've heard you spew that inaccuracy before and just let it go...but not in MY thread! :) The ORIGINAL pledge DID have "One nation under GOD" in it. Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge. He was a Christian, for crying out loud. Of course it was in there. And you're trying to say it was added LATER?!? You're smokin' crack there Ken. C'MON! The only thing that was added later was the freakin' COMMA! It's supposed to be "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" . . . NOT, "One nation , (pause) under God".

There! Now you have been enlightened and informed correctly. Quite spreading lies and gossip...and reading the LA Times! :p

And...stop trying to change my values and let me worship God as I pledge my allegiance to the US Flag. ...and all the Christian Fore Fathers that died so that you can live here freely, and burn the flag.

Why all the hate, Ken? Why all the hate?
Google is your friend and it says you are wrong

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

I quote

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

[messenger13]

I know...I know. But ever since Clinton told me (and the rest of the nation) that oral sex wasn't sex . . . I figured you could say anything and get away with it. Remember? I didn't know it was a lie when I said it, therefore, it's not a lie! Sound familiar?

For the record...
In 1954, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, (aka "Ike") signed a bill that stated:
From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty.

Here we are 51 years later, and those atheists over on the left coast want to take it out. It's simply amazing how the loud-mouthed minority runs this so-called democracy! Simply . . . amazing!

[rixchard]

We are not just on the west coast, I live in Dallas and was raised in Texas.

[vtwinwilly]

We are not just on the west coast, I live in Dallas and was raised in Texas.

But still the minority.

[rixchard]

Lucky for me I have the Constitution to protect me from the tyranny of the majority

[S2DOG]

Holy Smokes Joe, it looks like you are taxing at an airport with those lights! :)

[Bayliner2052]

Here we are 51 years later, and those atheists over on the left coast want to take it out. It's simply amazing how the loud-mouthed minority runs this so-called democracy! Simply . . . amazing!


Joe, remember we are not a democracy, were are a republic. Its in the Pledge.;)

[TandemCyclist]

Come on Richard, You know as well as I do they are not the majority. They are just believing what a few rich guys want them to.

Joe, How quick would you want to take prayer out of school when half the rebellious teenagers in your town decided to pray on mats with a Koran in their hand? If terrorist wanted to get this country in turmoil they should go this route.

Oh yea you never said if you respected this veteran even though I burned flags.

I feel religion gets a big enough break in government with taxes. Oh yea, you can say God ( I capitalized it out of my respect for you) all you want here, because no one is legislating this forum on me.

To all: I like the fact we can have these discussions and still go out and ride together. An RV forum I frequent flames me if I say conservative. Their real touchy there.

Rick

[vtwinwilly]

Come on Richard, You know as well as I do they are not the majority. ...
Oh really... and what's your source for that?

According to The Harris Poll®#59, October 15, 2003:

"This survey found that 79% of Americans believe there is a God, and that 66% are absolutely certain this is true. Only 9% do not believe in God, while a further 12% are not sure."

This would clearly indicate a "majority."

Oh, BTW... I do whole heartedly agree with your statement:


I like the fact we can have these discussions and still go out and ride together.

Bill B.

[dshealey]

I have to agree with you Ken. I was in school when the phrase was added, and there was just as much uproar then as there is now from people who want to remove it again.

My opinion is much as yours. When it was not in there, anyone had the right to add it if they wished. Putting it in was tantamount to the "righteous" FORCING everyone else to their way. I sure don't feel that adding it was the proper thing to do in the first place. To me it was optional before, still is. Say it the way you wish, just don't make it "mandatory" EITHER way.

[meese]

Joe, please read my post again, and also Shealey's. That's the entire argument right there.

> I never said that you couldn't say it, or believe it, or teach your kids as you please.

Seems simple enough.

> And...stop trying to change my values and let me worship God as I pledge my allegiance to the US Flag.

No problem there. Just don't try and force me to do the same. That is all I'm asking, and all I'm concerned about.

There's no hate, and no flag burning here either. Remember, I'm the one that gets annoyed by those cheap plastic made-in-China flags stuck on everyone's car with no sign of respect or concept of proper display. When it becomes dirty, tattered, and eventually falls off into the gutter, what are they really trying to say? Spending a dollar then forgetting about it doesn't seem very patriotic to me.

As for majority/minority, I could care less what the numbers are. If you need a certain percentage to validate your own opinions, then you really should consider if they're actually your opinions, or just convenient ones you found lying around somewhere.

Believe whatever you want, but let me do the same.

> I like the fact we can have these discussions and still go out and ride together.

Works for me.

[vtwinwilly]

... If you need a certain percentage to validate your own opinions, then you really should consider if they're actually your opinions, or just convenient ones you found lying around somewhere. ...
My deeply held convictions are based on experience, not opinion.

For many are called, but few are chosen.
--Matthew 22:14 KJV

:)

Bill B.

[meese]

Then you've already asked yourself those questions, and come up with what you consider a suitable answer. Well done. I'd like to see more people do the same.

[BillyOmaha]

Here we are 51 years later, and those atheists over on the left coast want to take it out. It's simply amazing how the loud-mouthed minority runs this so-called democracy! Simply . . . amazing!

So Joe, if Islam became the majority faith in the U.S., as it is going to be in France in the near future, should the majority be able to insert replace "under God" with "under Allah"? Please disregard the technical argument that they're actually the same and focus on the gut reaction.

Some of us "left coasters", atheists or not, think it's a good idea to actually keep a "separation of church and state", regardless of our personal faith.

.

[Rayo]

Guys and ladies, one of the sources of this name was for working class men. One claim for the source was working stiffs drove pickup trucks, the sun comes in the rear window and beat down on their necks turning them red. Stretch cabs were not around then so there wasn't room to wear their hats in the cab. It was not always used as a derogatory name, it could be used as a name of respect for a hardworking man, of any belief.

[TandemCyclist]

vtwinwilly, Since we are out saving the world I was taking a world view with my response. Check this out.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
Rick

[dshealey]

It started LONG before trucks. It is a term that has been around since way before my father was born. It came from people working farms, out in the sun all day, often bent over. A person with a bright red neck was automatically deemed a farm worker.

Guys and ladies, one of the sources of this name was for working class men. One claim for the source was working stiffs drove pickup trucks, the sun comes in the rear window and beat down on their necks turning them red. Stretch cabs were not around then so there wasn't room to wear their hats in the cab. It was not always used as a derogatory name, it could be used as a name of respect for a hardworking man, of any belief.

[early1]

Actually the British used the yerm in the Revolutionary war describing the 'Swamp Fox ' and his men as "red-necked" rabble from the southern colonies.

[rixchard]

Close but no cigar

from : http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/rednecks/rednecks.html
REDNECK

The origins of this term are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or "Covenanters", largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term "Red neck", which became slang for a Scottish dissenter*. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar -- is this symbolic of the "rednecks"?

Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that "red-neck" was a "name bestowed upon the Presbyterians." It makes you wonder if the originators of the ever-present "redneck" joke are aware of the term’s origins?

*Another term for Presbyterians in Ireland was a "Blackmouth". Members of the Church of Ireland (Anglicans) used this as a slur, referring to the fact that one could tell a Presbyterian by the black stains around his mouth from eating blackberries while at secret, illegal Presbyterian Church Services in the countryside.

[messenger13]

ONLY at bmwlt.com could we all argue about when and where the term 'REDNECK' came from!

Eye yie yie... http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/sad/1004.gif

[Bayliner2052]

Joe, they ain't argu'in theys leanin us'in.

[early1]

richard , I said nothing about 1st use nor origin, I merely said "was used".

(Though your citation would seem to tie in ; as most South Carolinians at the time of the revolutionary war were BOTH Scottish and protestant.)