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gunny
Jun 9th, 2009, 7:57 pm
RULES FOR A GUN, KNIFE, BASEBALL BAT OR FIST FIGHT

1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns.

Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive.

If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend.

(Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys,

or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell

"Intruder," "Glock" or " Winchester ?"

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on

"pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it

because it is empty.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

"No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop

nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting.

That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't

(In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary,

because they may want to kill you.

22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance,

deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".

25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the

flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works.

You can clean it later.

26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.

27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being.

It is better to be sad than to be room temperature..

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me.

I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more.

Please speak with my attorney."

GUNTER1100
Jun 9th, 2009, 8:15 pm
Amen Gunny! My wife of 22 years was a bit dismayed that I carry everywhere I legally can. I've had a carry concealed permit since 1972. We had an incident in Seattle where we came out of a restaurant that was closing at 11 PM, and the door was locked behind us. We had to cross a large square to get to our car. The square was populated by about 25 members of 2 different gangs that did not play well with each other. When one of the leaders asked me what I wanted, I told him we just wanted to cross & get to our car. As he sized me up, I opened up my coat to reveal a shoulder rig with a Colt model 1911, .45 semi-auto. He took a long look, said "cool". As we got to the car, she said now I know why when I ask you why you carry, you say "I'd rather be prepared than surprised." She has taken a hand gun safety class put on by the local police department & the city. She feels a lot more comfortable when she handles her Colt .357 mag revolver. I feel a lot more comfortable going to work & leaving her at home with her "friend" close by.

Moot
Jun 10th, 2009, 5:42 pm
AAs he sized me up, I opened up my coat to reveal a shoulder rig with a Colt model 1911, .45 semi-auto. He took a long look, said "cool". .

Gunter--thanks for posting your experience. IMHO if he was close enough to id what you were carrying in your shoulder holster and for you to hear him say "cool", you would have been hard pressed to bring your weapon to bear in time if you had needed it.

That aside, your post got me to wondering how many of us have a story of a situation in which we believe we were saved by our carry permits. I have carried for 40 years. I have "showed" my weapon two times and fired it zero. Here is the tale of the last time I showed it. I believe it saved my life.

Last year a friend and I were riding a lonely stretch of highway in the desert southwest. I noticed he had a loose tie down strap, pulled alongside him and motioned him to follow me to an area we could pull over to adjust the strap. No sooner had we pulled in than a 1980s model Chevy in primer gray pulled in behind us. Out piled three Hispanic gents. One with a tire iron, one with a broken off baseball bat and one with a frog skinner knife. Between the three of them they were showing enough prison ink to pen an entire raft of habeas corpus petitions.

I turned to face them and (as I tell it now) calmly informed them we were just fine; we were just making an adjustment and did not require any assistance so they could mosey on down the road. They simply looked at one another and kept advancing as the one with the tire iron hummed and the tire iron beat a cha cha rhythm in the palm of his hand. In my best attempt to repeat in Spanish what I had just said in English, I halting said something close to: “No necesitamos toda la asistencia, por favor mueven.” (at least that is what I think I said). Either I did not say what I meant to say or they were simply insistent on ignoring my polite request.

I reached into my tank bag, removed my Sig and simply let it drop down to the side of my leg. My friend says I sounded calm but I know my pulse was racing as I managed to speak: “I said shove off, asshole”. Finally, they got the message and complied. I firmly believe that simply showing my weapon saved our lives.

It would be fascinating to hear your story of how carrying a weapon saved you from harm if not from probable death.

gunny
Jun 10th, 2009, 7:15 pm
I'm thinking that I would probably not keep my carry in or on my motorcycle. Too easy to get too far from it to do you any good when you really need it. Carry it on your person.

GUNTER1100
Jun 10th, 2009, 8:32 pm
Moot- Good point. I did not let him get closer than 20 feet. When he was about 25 feet away, I opened up my coat & moved my right hand up, parallel with the ground, at my waist. He took a step & a half, then stopped. When he stopped moving toward me, I stopped my hand motion. He could also see I had the hammer back, & 2 more clips visible. I've pulled my weapon, as a civilian 3 times since I got my carry permit. I only fired it once under those conditions. Two rounds from a range of 15 feet. He did not get up again. He was attempting to rob my connivance store, with a knife. He saw the .45 & when I told him to drop the knife & get on the ground, he charged me. The medical examiner reported that he was on PCP at the time. Was forced to use a weapon many more times in the miltiary, but that is a series of stories for another time.

Palerider
Jun 10th, 2009, 10:04 pm
Good advice Gunny................

'nuff' said..........................jim

gpolakow
Jun 11th, 2009, 1:18 pm
I'm 64 and have never owned a gun, carried a knife, or used a baseball bat for anything than its intended purpose. You must live in a more dangerous part of the world than I do or have. If this works for you, good. Not sure it means much to me. If I have to live in constant fear of other people killing me; If I have to think of everyone as a potential lethal enemy, I think I'd just as soon check out now. I have no desire to kill anyone or anything.
Would I kill someone to protect my family? Yes. But I hope that choice is one I never have to make.

hoog62
Jun 11th, 2009, 2:09 pm
It's not about fear, it's about preparedness

Would I kill someone to protect my family? Yes.
How are you going to be able to do that? (See OP)


But I hope that choice is one I never have to make.
I'm sure every single gun advocate feels the exact same way.

Moot
Jun 11th, 2009, 4:34 pm
Would I kill someone to protect my family? Yes. But I hope that choice is one I never have to make.


I hope I don't ever have to make that choice either The difference is I will be ready and in a position to actually make that choice when that time arrives. You have already made the choice to be a victim. Which is, of course, your right.

gpolakow
Jun 11th, 2009, 4:47 pm
I hope I don't ever have to make that choice either The difference is I will be ready and in a position to actually make that choice when that time arrives. You have already made the choice to be a victim. Which is, of course, your right.
So, if you don't own a gun, you've made the choice to be a victim?
Baloney!

petepeterson
Jun 11th, 2009, 4:55 pm
With my age and retirement of many years from the Corps,, my rules are down to just 2....

1. Never go to a fight ,,let it come to you....
(# 2 is the only important one)
2. Point of aim is point of impact.........This never changes..................Pete


One more thing for the weak of heart or the one with a lack of spine....

"" A armed society is a governed society,,,,, an unarmed society is a ruled society.........THIS CAN NOT BE ARGUED

JPSpen
Jun 11th, 2009, 5:55 pm
BMW


Brought My Weapon


Amen and pass the ammo.

JOhn

batdriver51
Jun 11th, 2009, 6:32 pm
Won' t have to worry about owning them much longer much longer with the brown shirts in control currently.

gpolakow
Jun 12th, 2009, 7:01 am
Won' t have to worry about owning them much longer much longer with the brown shirts in control currently.
The Brown shirts? Seems a bit extreme.

gholt417
Jun 12th, 2009, 1:35 pm
Every so often one of these lists comes up, with the predictable strong views and disagreements.

Is there a reason for this?
From an outsider it appears to show that people are more divided than they are.

I'm not gonna say 'cant we all get along' but these do usually end up with nast non-constructive mud slinging arguments with pointless scores being settled.

Graham

deanwoolsey
Jun 12th, 2009, 2:11 pm
To carry or not to carry?

In extreme cases carrying may save your life.

In most cases not carrying means you will certainly be a victim when you become the focus of criminal intent.

Sometimes carrying can escalate the situation into use of deadly force.

Sometimes the good guy won't win.

Not everybody is capable of killing. People who are not have no business with a firearm.

I might lose, but I haven't yet and I'll be shooting when I do unless I run out of ammunition.

UltraLT
Jun 14th, 2009, 1:06 pm
Carry permit? What's a Carry Permit? I don't need no stinking carry permit! I just carry. So what's the problem there?

Ultra LT

RMoore007
Jun 14th, 2009, 4:15 pm
Must be we were all part of this generation. We didn't have a chance.:p

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