Need Your confirmation and comments(Slave cylinder)

[K1200LT-TH]

Good morning lads

As i previously have been talking that my clutch is gone and slipping, well yesterday finally we got in to it and opne Slave and this was what i found.
What is your take on this, there is tiny little drop of oil,, for my idea it means that slave is gone(have replacements already) and need to be changed, im i even close to correct?
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1440.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1439.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1437.jpg

[cccpastorjack]

DING! DING! We have a winner! You are correct my friend! And, that seal inside of that boss needs to be changed too! Do NOT neglect to change it.

If I were in your shoes, I would at drill a drain hole in the clutch housing too and here's what I would do BEFORE I went to all the time and expense to change the clutch. I would use brake cleaner (aerosol) and REALLY spray it all inside the clutch housing and let it drain out several times. I might even blow a little compressed air in there to dry it good. Then I would test the clutch to see if if slips after a cleaning. (Of course, I would change the engine oil too, just in case it was contaminated). But, having replaced about 3-4 clutches in LT's, I would love to try this first and see if it would stop slippage. Might not, but would be worth a try. If it doesn't work, just go ahead and replace the clutch. Not much lost. ;)

[K1200LT-TH]

Jack

Thnx for your input,, i have clutch plate as well already and that is on the work plan.
Only what i just realice that i might NOT have is inner inside seal to Boss...darn...do you have part number for that?

Weep hole is on the work plan as well.

thnx a lot

[dshealey]

If you have over 40,000 miles on the bike, also put a new engine oil seal and O-ring in. The O-ring hardens and cracks, causing an oil leak. Also go ahead and replace all the transmission oil seals while it is out.

[Toolman]

...that seal inside of that boss needs to be changed too! Do NOT neglect to change it. If I were in your shoes, I would at drill a drain hole in the clutch housing too

Don't mean to hijack this thread....but couple of quick Q's for Pastor Jack. I'm getting ready to drill the slave cyl weep hole. It's a '02 with 9500 (I know, I know...but in my defense, it was not driven for a few years while I lived overseas). Anyway, if I don't see any fluid when I remove my slave cyl (in prep for drilling the hole), should I replace thyat seal too? Also, might you have any pictures of the hole drilled in the clutch housing? Can the clutch hole be done without disassembly? Seems drilling this clutch hole could have a negative potential...like if you go through any deep water. Your advice is appreciated. Regards, Toolman

[mjordans2000]

Don't mean to hijack this thread....but couple of quick Q's for Pastor Jack. I'm getting ready to drill the slave cyl weep hole. It's a '02 with 9500 (I know, I know...but in my defense, it was not driven for a few years while I lived overseas). Anyway, if I don't see any fluid when I remove my slave cyl (in prep for drilling the hole), should I replace thyat seal too? Also, might you have any pictures of the hole drilled in the clutch housing? Can the clutch hole be done without disassembly? Seems drilling this clutch hole could have a negative potential...like if you go through any deep water. Your advice is appreciated. Regards, Toolman

I'm sure Jack will agree. As long as you're in there replace the seal. The fluid is actually coming from the slave itself, replacing the seal just improves your odds of reliability. The weep hole issue has been discussed in depth. I have not seen a case where external contamination allowed by the hole is an issue. Any water which gets in will exit the same hole.

[wkclark]

BEFORE I went to all the time and expense to change the clutch. I would use brake cleaner (aerosol) and REALLY spray it all inside the clutch housing and let it drain out several times. I might even blow a little compressed air in there to dry it good. Then I would test the clutch to see if if slips after a cleaning.

Just went through the unfortunate and EXPENSIVE process of fixing a rear main seal, complete with oil contaminated clutch, and all the fixins'. I got a used clutch (complete kit) from one of the fine used part vendors on this site that appeared to meet specs, appeared dry and dusty .... with less mileage than my own.

The dealer who was doing the work installed it along with everything else and sent me on my merry way. 3 days later I was back at the dealership dropping the bike off because the clutch was slipping.

After opening the whole thing up again ..... we found there had been no installation error and the clutch appeared dry - but definitely slipped.

Of course it was nothing that about Cdn $770 in clutch and related parts -- oh yeah, and the labor cost of taking it back apart and putting it back together. Thankfully I have an AWESOME dealer (Atlantic Motoplex in Moncton) and they helped with damage control in managing the cost of mistakenly installing a used clutch.

So - a question for Jack ... how do you check a clutch for slippage without installing and running it? And a bit of advice for anyone considering reusing or installing a used part that goes as deep into the engine as a clutch does ... don't do it. Spend the extra on new parts when the thing is in pieces. It's far less costly than paying to take it apart and put it back together all over again.

One of life's little lessons I wish I had not had to learn personally :(
Keir

[RonKMiller]

Ouch! :(

[Toolman]

I'm sure Jack will agree. As long as you're in there replace the seal. The fluid is actually coming from the slave itself, replacing the seal just improves your odds of reliability. The weep hole issue has been discussed in depth. I have not seen a case where external contamination allowed by the hole is an issue. Any water which gets in will exit the same hole.

Thanks mjordans2000. It doesn't appear that Jack is referring the slave cylinder weep hole, which I agree, has been discussed to death. This appears to be another weep hole...drilled in the clutch housing itself. Anybody else done this?...any pictures?...location to drill?

[cccpastorjack]

Just went through the unfortunate and EXPENSIVE process of fixing a rear main seal, complete with oil contaminated clutch, and all the fixins'. I got a used clutch (complete kit) from one of the fine used part vendors on this site that appeared to meet specs, appeared dry and dusty .... with less mileage than my own.

The dealer who was doing the work installed it along with everything else and sent me on my merry way. 3 days later I was back at the dealership dropping the bike off because the clutch was slipping.

After opening the whole thing up again ..... we found there had been no installation error and the clutch appeared dry - but definitely slipped.

Of course it was nothing that about Cdn $770 in clutch and related parts -- oh yeah, and the labor cost of taking it back apart and putting it back together. Thankfully I have an AWESOME dealer (Atlantic Motoplex in Moncton) and they helped with damage control in managing the cost of mistakenly installing a used clutch.

So - a question for Jack ... how do you check a clutch for slippage without installing and running it? And a bit of advice for anyone considering reusing or installing a used part that goes as deep into the engine as a clutch does ... don't do it. Spend the extra on new parts when the thing is in pieces. It's far less costly than paying to take it apart and put it back together all over again.

One of life's little lessons I wish I had not had to learn personally :(
Keir

My Dear Friend,

You posed the question and then answered it yourself. As for me, I would NEVER install a used clutch...period. but, if someone demanded I did, I would certainly measure the thickness and flatness of the plate and then clean it with brake cleaner SEVERAL times and make sure it dried thoroughly before installation. But, the job is so involved that it just make sense to install NEW parts. Used parts work in many applications, but not this one...not for me.

[cccpastorjack]

Thanks mjordans2000. It doesn't appear that Jack is referring the slave cylinder weep hole, which I agree, has been discussed to death. This appears to be another weep hole...drilled in the clutch housing itself. Anybody else done this?...any pictures?...location to drill?


I am referring to a drain hole drilled in the bottom side of the clutch housing. As for the transmission input shaft seal, I would probably replace it on a 2002 model with only 9k miles. Why? Two reasons, (1) Age (2) You're already in there...why risk not changing it for a $10. seal? It is my conviction that MANY clutches have been ruined by that seal leaking gear oil from the tranny - which then travels through the center of the hollow shaft (just like dot 4 would), and ruins the clutch.

[cccpastorjack]

Jack

Thnx for your input,, i have clutch plate as well already and that is on the work plan.
Only what i just realice that i might NOT have is inner inside seal to Boss...darn...do you have part number for that?

Weep hole is on the work plan as well.

thnx a lot


Sorry, but I do not have that part number...... :(

[cccpastorjack]

Thanks mjordans2000. It doesn't appear that Jack is referring the slave cylinder weep hole, which I agree, has been discussed to death. This appears to be another weep hole...drilled in the clutch housing itself. Anybody else done this?...any pictures?...location to drill?


Here is a link to the thread where you will find pics and information about the size and location of the Clutch HOUSING Drain Hole.
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46089&highlight=clutch+housing+weep+hole

[Toolman]

Has anybody purchased this seal separately...the one Jack is referring to? I don't see it listed as an individual part...but rather part of the entire slave cylnder (or as BMW calls it...the 'Output Cylnder Clutch').

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23037&stc=1

[sheldan2]

the seal Jack is referring to is pictured in the first set of pictures in this thread.

[dshealey]

Has anybody purchased this seal separately...the one Jack is referring to? I don't see it listed as an individual part...but rather part of the entire slave cylnder (or as BMW calls it...the 'Output Cylnder Clutch').

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23037&stc=1
The arrow is pointing to the "throwout" bearing in the front end of the piston. The cup seal is on the other end of the piston, and not replaceable.

I would not replace the piston seal even if it was available, as I feel one of the common causes of slave failure is the tightening or seizing of the throwout bearing, causing the piston to spin in the cylinder, a very rapid failure results when this happens. Replace the slave to get a new bearing. That little bearing spins all the time the engine is running, and takes the entire load of releasing the clutch. A wonder it lasts as long as it does normally.

[cccpastorjack]

The arrow is pointing to the "throwout" bearing in the front end of the piston. The cup seal is on the other end of the piston, and not replaceable.

I would not replace the piston seal even if it was available, as I feel one of the common causes of slave failure is the tightening or seizing of the throwout bearing, causing the piston to spin in the cylinder, a very rapid failure results when this happens. Replace the slave to get a new bearing. That little bearing spins all the time the engine is running, and takes the entire load of releasing the clutch. A wonder it lasts as long as it does normally.


You guys are correct. That is NOT the seal I was referring to and the Slave Cylinder should only be replaced as an entire unit. As Mike said, the seal I am referring to is the one visible in the very first picture on the thread.

Now the challenge... Every time I go to the BMW shop they have quite a time locating that seal on the microfiche. Same thing on Realoem.com. The drawings just aren't clear. Frustrating, but I would take the picture of the seal to a dealer (or email it to them) so that they get you the right one. More than once, I have returned back home with the WRONG seal. "A Picture is worth a thousand words!" ;)

[cccpastorjack]

I THINK it is number 10 on this drawing (see below):

The parts microfiche is found at www.realoem.com and you should enter the specific model and year which you own and then navigate to TRANSMISSION to see a diagram. ;)

[lenny]

Good morning lads

As i previously have been talking that my clutch is gone and slipping, well yesterday finally we got in to it and opne Slave and this was what i found.
What is your take on this, there is tiny little drop of oil,, for my idea it means that slave is gone(have replacements already) and need to be changed, im i even close to correct?
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1440.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1439.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/UbonM/Clutch%20and%20Mods%20Apr-09/IMG_1437.jpg
how bad is the clutch slipping? i had a drop or two when i drilled the hole in mine,,and its been fine for three yrs now

[K1200LT-TH]

Clutch wasn't slipping so badly, only when i wanted to accelerate from Gear 3rd and up.
1st and 2nd gear did not slipped so badly only when or if doing agressive acceleration.
:rotf:

[jzeiler]

From Jack's picture there are two item 10's you need the smaller one (listed last here) The bigger one goes on the clutch end of the same shaft.

10 23121340324 shaft seal, output shaft (25X40X6) BUY 1
10 23127705085 shaft seal, drive shaft (17X28X7) BUY 1

[Steve_R]

how bad is the clutch slipping? i had a drop or two when i drilled the hole in mine,,and its been fine for three yrs nowIf you've been running 3 years then you're fine. You don't notice the slip as it comes on very gradually. First if 5th gear and then 4th and then 3rd and generally only under hard acceleation. Been there two times, one for a clutch slave and once for a rear engine main seal.