Cliff's BMW - Danbury, CT - Negative

[BxBmrGrunt]

Just had my first (and probably last) experience with Cliff's BMW Aprilia Ducati. My '99 klt was running rough and needed a new battery. Turns out my rear main was not so sealed and had bathed the clutch in oil. And since the extended warranty had expired I really hit the lottery. In all fairness Cliff's obliged my request to delay the work for two weeks seeing as it was the second week in December and I was ill prepared for the $2000 + repair order.

Once the work was completed I was told I would get a call from their driver who was to deliver the bike in a "day or two." Two weeks and an agitated phone call later they delivered the filthy bike with the J-pegs removed!! (I need 'em..bad knees) I realize most places treat service customers as virtual "no counts" especially if the purchase was not from their dealership and quite frankly know this is small stuff to complain about but whether the bill is $200 or $2000 one shouldn't have to reattach, reapply, or replace any item removed by the techs for their convenience.

Does anyone know of anyplace in the NY tri-state area (official or otherwise) that remember what its like to stand on the customer side of the counter and maybe doesn't mind using 25 cents worth of soap from time to time? Bob's BMW was great but I don't want to move to Maryland just for bike service. Boy, do I miss Beemer Cycles... be well Rich. Oh well just had to vent a bit. Btw thanks to the folks who run this site as it has been most helpful with all things LT. Keep up the great work! Just my two cents.

[BxBmrGrunt]

Noticed too late that I posted this in the wrong forum. Oh well I'm an idiot lol

[was]

Ouch. I feel your pain. I have not had any mechanical or electrical work done by a dealer on my '99 (purchased by me in April '05), but Canton Cycles (which is not in Canton, it's in Winsted) just installed a rear tire for me. I wanted to ride the bike in and wait for it on a Saturday. The service manager told me to arrive at 11:15 a.m. I was there at 11:10, they took the bike into the shop at 11:15. Bill Lord, the VP, took me upstairs to show me the 2006 models. At 12:00 the bike was ready and they were reminding me that a new tire needs a bit of breaking in, so be careful. Nice folks who were attentive and professional. Good luck on your search for another dealer.

[Lzyellodog]

Max BMW has pickup and delivery for free(i think) if you live within 100 miles from either of their shops. One is in Albany the other is North HAmpton, NH. I bought my 05 LT from the NH store but have chatted with the guys in NY and NH , they both are great. I highly reccomend them. I live in Middletown, CT and have no problem using MAX. I refuse to use either shop in CT. I understand there is a good shop[ in RI but I can not remember the name.

JIm

[BxBmrGrunt]

Thanks guys

[BMWphreak]

The good shop in RI, also the ONLY shop in RI, is Razee Motors in North Kingston on Rt 1. Old time shop with cheaper rates than any other shop in the area.

There is also Wagner Motors in Shrewsbury, Mass (Rt 9, both cars & bikes), but I don't know much about them as they are only about 1 year old.

[robdm]

Try Canton BMW. Nice people, service and price were very good.They did right by me. 'Ill be doing my 12K service there this spring before Americade.
Not going to dig in about CLiffs, that ship has sailed.
Good luck
Rob

[groche]

Wagner BMW Motorcycles has moved to Worcester, MA 700 Plantation Street to brand new renovated space! They have done a great job and the folks there are fantastic.
I just purchased my 06 K1200LT from them. http://www.wagnerbmwmotorcycles.com/
If you drop by, tell TJ Greg said hello.

[K12LT03]

and the service advisor did not even call you and offer to send someone over to reinstall them?

[lhendrick]

<Rant Starts>Maybe Cliff himself could jump into his Porsche and do it himself, Ha! It is depressingly amazing to me that some of the employees from the old New Canaan store who moved to Cliffs at Danbury seem to have "deteriorated". Then again, business conditions and BMW NA changes seem to have changed the dynamics for the worse. I shop Cliffs and limit my transactions to getting parts and accessories from Francis, who remains as sullen and serious as he was in New Canaan, but has or gets the goods. I've done my own service so far (8600 miles) and intend to try to do it all. If I have a warranty issue I'll find go to one of the good dealers listed here. If I hit the lottery, I will buy Cliff's. First order of the day will be a staff "realignment"<Rant Ends>

[RVB1019]

Have you tried the BMW dealership in Manhattan yet? Their at 555 W.57th Street. That might be your closest dealer.

I've said it a thousand times, how can the NYC/LI area only have two dealerships?

The other on is in Lynbrook NY- Precision BMW. The showroom is currently being redesigned. I'm not sure of the service at either dealerships.

Here's a link to their websites:

http://www.bmwbikesnyc.com/

and

http://www.precisionbmw.com/

[KMC1]

This thread actually freaks me out a little bit.
I called Cliff's last week to schedule a service on my 03. I'm going to take a Smokey Mountains tour in June and or course Vermont for the National and then there's Narraganset, Newport and the Cape for a week in August, and my SO and I have been talking about a White Mountains camping/riding trip to hike Mt. Washington in July. A relatively full summer of riding when you have a job too... so I want to be proactive and get the new tire on the front I need, my ABS lights have been flashing at me for the last 800 miles and I want to get that fixed (battery?), change the oil, fluids, install some PIAA's and I noticed last week the rear drive seems to have some play in it, and in general just give it a good once or twice over to make sure when we start to ride we make it through the whole season. Here in New England you don't get much quality season if you know what I mean. So far they have not called me back to give me the estimate as they said they would, they have not called me back to arrange for the pick up as they said they would, and they did not return my call today to find out what the hold up is. Also, last summer they lost a check I gave them for my 6k service. I called them a month later to find out why they hadn't cashed my check - they couldn't find it (!!!) so I sent them a new one and they paid the $19.00 to put the stop pay on the original. Two months later I get a collection letter in the mail stating that I owe them a bounced check fee, and they're going to report me to the credit bureaus. Never even called me to ask what the problem was etc. I called and spoke to the older lady in the office (can't think of her name right now) and after I showed her my emails and faxed a copy of the canceled check and the replacement check (Cashed no less) she apologized and made it right. I guess I was just peeved that out of respect you would call me at least once first before threatening legal actions wouldn't you? I've been a customer there for 2 years and I bought my bike from the old Lindner shop so have tried to keep my business with the same crew that was the reason I bought from Lindner in the first place. (I didn't know they were about to close, in fact the sales guy (Ken) at Lindner promoted how they were the oldest dealer around, yada yada.
Anyway, I'm really venting now, Sorry for the long post, but I'm really starting to regret my decision to deal with BMW, not because of the bike flaws or no, but because I feel like I have very little support behind my $20k ($15k after you leave the lot) motorcycle.

[BxBmrGrunt]

So BMW of Manhattan has had my bike since 4/29, (40 minutes just to drop it off btw) the problem soon after I got her back from Cliff's was brake light staying on (intermittent) told them I suspected the relay (thank you bmwlt.com) so they tell me I need a new tail light assembly.. Everytime I call they're "talkin to a customer" (If I'm paying for this "service" doesn't that make me a customer too?) Oh well 4 days later they're telling me the new tail light assembly is also staying on and they need another 3 hours labor to check relay... that was 7 days ago... no response to messages so I have no idea whats going on now. I keep expecting to wake up from this bad dream but my garage is still empty. Way to go BMW.

[Lzyellodog]

All I can say is Sorry to hear all of your problems. More reason not to use these guys. If you want a good shop try MAx BMW in NY or NH. They have a pick up which can be free depending on your location. I bought my 05 LT from his shop in NH. I have nothing but good things so far to say about them. I started using them for small parts on my 78 R100 and then bought the LT in Sept 05. BTW, I had called to ask questions and never even told them I was thinking about buying. As a matter of fact we were not planning on buying when we went there on our 1 year wedding annivarsey. But they made Soooo easy. The MAX actually came outside and talked to me about the bikes and says take either bike for a long ride and then decide. He even gave us some coffee shops to try. Now I am rambling Sorry. Just hate to see fellow riders suffer needlessly when their are better shops than Cliffs out there not too far away.

www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com

If you want the website.

[pfodaskik1200]

LZYELLODOG,I am also considering a future purchase at MAX BMW instead of CANTON BMW.Thanks for the info....................

[KMC1]

OK. I now feel indoctrinated. Like part of "The Club". One of The Guys. Please take my checkbook from me and don't let me have it back no matter how much I whine.
Bike is at 8,390 miles. 2003LTC bought new December 03.
Took the bike in for the following:
ABS Fault.
Rear Rotor Rattle.
New Front Tire.
Fluid change and a "once over" (my words) to get ready for the riding season.

Charges:
Annual Inspection: 382.12
Within this:
Engine Oil + Filter
Brake fluid front and rear
Lubricate side stand pivots, battery terminals, check center stand pivots, lights, tire presssures.

Gearbox Oil change: 38.54
Rear Drive Oil Change: 28.70
Clutch Fluid Change: 75.44
120/70R17 BT020 front: 135.85
1 25GR WHL Weight: 3.69 (Do I remember something about not going over 17grams?)
Mount and balance: 0 (!!! YAY!)
Tire Disposal: 3.00
Road Test: 41.00


Costs Summary:
Parts: 190.76
Labor: 524.80
Other: 17.50
HAZMAT: 7.50
Tax: 44.46

TOTAL: 785.51

Overall:
-ABS Fault seems to be gone. (So far) It doesn't appear it was put on the Motronic to see what the fault code was, so I may not know for a few days yet if this is fixed.
-Rear Brake Rattle is "normal" and not something they can fix - maybe check with aftermarket. (It is really bad to the point the sound is echoeing off houses as I drive down the street)
-New fluids all around
-new front tire.

They picked the bike up a day early last week (I was able to change my schedule last minute to accomodate) and the work was done the day they said it would be. The pick up service is a VERY nice benefit of Cliff's.
I picked the bike up so I would be able to get it in time for the long weekend as their delivery service wouldn't be able to make it until sometime next week. I was told I would get a call to tell me when the paperwork was ready so I could come pick it up as the work had been finished at this point. Never got any calls back and had to keep calling throughout the day to see if the paperwork would be done so I could. (3 times)


Not really sure what to think, other than I am going to start learning to do my own services on the stuff I don't need the Motronic or special machines for. At this point I have spent $1291.20 on service for my bike, in 8400 miles.

[BecketMa]

Road Test $41!

Paul's DVDs are a great way to start.

Bob

[KMC1]

Just to follow up on my post from last week.
- ABS fault reoccured today while riding in the rain on my way to the CT tech session. Upon consulting with the crew at the Tech Session, it was found that the brake fluid level was a little low. We topped off both front and rear reservoirs. Fault did not reoccur on the ride home - however if the brake system was just flushed and bled last week per the $383 bill I was charged, seems like the fluid level should be up? I have about 240 miles on it since the fluid change.
- Rear Brake rotor - out of the 7 bikes at the tech session mine seemed to be the loosest by far. (about .250 side to side motion I will guess) I'll most likely put on the EBC rotor and pads (another tech day soon :p ) but I really feel this is something BMW should be reimbursing me for given the low mileage/excessive looseness.
-Also, and most worrisome, we found the fuel quick disconnect leaking. Not really a big deal usually as far as it not being rocket science to repair. (of course you know now I'll mess it all up right? :) ) however, this is something that was supposed to have been done as part of the recall, during the 6000 mile service last year. It does not appear to have been done however as it appears it is the OEM connector. I have paperwork saying it was done though, handed to me last week as a response to my complaints about the $800 bill for the fluid change and new tire. I need to review everything first though to be sure if it is the OEM or the recall replacement part before I go off half-cocked.
At this point I really don't know what to think. It seems to me I've been billed for work that has not actually been done to my bike, of course there really isn't anyway to conclusively prove it, so I'm sure it's not going to amount to much of anything when I speak to Cliff's. I honestly can say though, I have lost faith in their ability/concern for my safety (drop and roll, DON'T RUN!) since seeing that fuel connector and getting that ABS fault again today.

[BMWphreak]

After what I heard from KMC1 face-to-face, and having seen the lack of effort put into "doing a thorough once over" of the bike for him, I will never set foot in Cliff's again. I hope all BMW riders heed the messages posted here. Maybe he can make it as a dealer of Italian brand MCs...

[KMC1]

Please hold my latest post regarding Cliff's fixing the ABS Fault, Rotor Looseness and now the new Fuel Line leak. Cliff's came today to pick up the bike less than 3 hours after speaking to them to inform them of the problems. It's a 50 mile one-way drive for them, and they are promising to replace the rotor, fix the fuel leak and double check the ABS fault code ( I think it was just a little low on fluid) and have the bike back tomorrow night (I leave for a Smokey Mountains ride Thurs. AM) all at no charge under a warranty claim.
If they come through, I can't find any fault with their customer service on this one regardless of the previous service visit 2 weeks ago to address these problems. I wish it were done right the first time of course, but they are going the extra mile to correct the issues so far - we'll see if they try to weasle out of doing it for free, have it done in time etc. tomorrow night. But in my opinion they don't deserve a black eye over this if they get it right in time.

Thanks for understanding.

Kevin

[johnk12lt]

So BMW of Manhattan has had my bike since 4/29, (40 minutes just to drop it off btw) the problem soon after I got her back from Cliff's was brake light staying on (intermittent) told them I suspected the relay (thank you bmwlt.com) so they tell me I need a new tail light assembly.. Everytime I call they're "talkin to a customer" (If I'm paying for this "service" doesn't that make me a customer too?) Oh well 4 days later they're telling me the new tail light assembly is also staying on and they need another 3 hours labor to check relay... that was 7 days ago... no response to messages so I have no idea whats going on now. I keep expecting to wake up from this bad dream but my garage is still empty. Way to go BMW.

Really sorry I picked up on this thread so late. If you went a few more miles you could have gone to Cross Country BMW in Metuchen NJ. I know it is far being in CT, but they do the job right the first time.

Several other of our CT friends take thier LT's to NJ due to problems with Cliff's. As others hjave said here in the NY metro/LI area we only have the factory store in Manhattan and Precision in Valley Stream. Precision does great work, but takes forever whether you bought the bike from them or not. Hey just don't get it.

Cliff's started off on the right foot and seems IMO to have gone downhill fast. Makes one wonder if Cliff is really involved in the day to day anymore. Sorry to hear about your problems. Keep us updated.

[lhendrick]

I have posted before about disappointment with Cliffs, but thought I'd add this update. Went in the other day to buy the pieces for 12K service. A new person behnd the counter was actually friendly and helpful, a new experience there. He even mentioned that BMW had raised the price on their 20W50 oil to a point where it was embarassing even to him ($5.00+ per quart). While I was waiting for him to get the goods from out back, Cliff himself wandered by and asked if I was being helped. This is a good sign. It was closing thime on a Saturday and I appreciated their being able to take care of me. I may try to buy my expendables from them. As for ABS brake fluid changes, Motronic work, Tires and the like I will look elsewhere if possible, but it's hard to beat them when they are only 10 miles from the house. BMW Manhatten (where I purchased) is 50 south in the belly of the beast. Cliff's by default.

[robdm]

Cliffs is 10 min from me too. I just dropped my bike off at Canton BMW for a 12K service. Won't even buy oil from cliff. What makes it tougher is that I heard they are moving to Federal road, which is 2 min from my house. Oh well, Canton is a nice ride and it's few and far between pit stops.
I'll be picking my bike up Saturday, if anyone is interested I'll post the $$$ for the 12K service.
BTW- Nice folks in Canton.

[K12LT03]

Canton is getting rid BMW and Triumph, going to Gengras in East Hartford

[KMC1]

Hi Rob,
I had a pretty ugly experience at Cliff's on 6/30 - Motorrad called me two nights before I had to go back to Cliff's for my radio to be replaced after it shorted out during the repair service needed after the shoddy work that was done week of 5/18.
It would seem you just don't go around telling Motorrad the truth if you get poor service from Cliff's, else you face the wrath of the Service Manager :)
Got into a pretty good discussion which ended up with empty promises that he "would do something for me" (maybe he means for Christmas? :) ) and threats to fire the tech who worked on my bike since Cliff's is "a top rated service dept." and yada yada.
I'm done with them now. Only if I have an emergency will they have my business now.
I just scheduled my 12k with canton for 8/15 so would really like to know the costs to compare.
Also, in case you don't know, Gengras Harley in Hartford just bought Canton, they are going to be Victory and KTM, so there will be Triumph and BMW in Hartford hopefully in time for Spring.

[Lzyellodog]

Sorry to tell but Canton sold hei BMW and triumph lines to Gengras in EAst Hartford. Gengras os looking for a late fall opening from what info i hvae seen. Dont forget MAX in Albany. Not real close but they have free pick up and delivery in your area.

Just a happy customer of theirs,

Jim

[robdm]

FYI-
My 12K service on my 05 was 575 bucks at Canton BMW.
I forgot to mention to them that I had changed the fluids prior to my Nova Scotia trip. That would of saved me a few bucks.
All in all, I was very happy with the service.
To bad they are moving.

Rob

[robdm]

575 for the 12k service

[BxBmrGrunt]

I don't even want the bike anymore. Will hopefully sell by wintertime. Didn't think any "service" would rival HD, boy was I ever wrong. It just isnt fun anymore... there is your update and good luck.

[BxBmrGrunt]

I've had this 99KLTS since 01 and have been to five different "service" departments in as many years. Funny thing is I got the LT because I got tired of four years of "Harley service" lol.. so after nearly a decade of mostly negative experiences I must consider the fact that maybe my expectations are too high... I thought a shop or dealer would at least feign interest in potential repeat business. Oh well I guess that's why I'm no businessman. In any event I'll be selling the bike as it now needs a front tire and I dread any and all service departments. There is nothing wrong with her except the tire but after ten years of mediocre service at best, it's just not fun anymore. Thanks for all the help, the info on this site is invaluable.


Sammy