Which FRS/GMRS radio to use?

[BLBantz]

I have the Baehr K1200LT specific intercom. It works flawlessly for rider to passenger, cell phone and radio/CD integration. With my son now entering the riding world and having joined a riding club for group rides, I find myself in need of bike to bike communication. I know Baehr sells the PTT button and any needed cables to make this happen. Question is, and I'm somewhat of a neophiteon this subject, what two way radios to get? A lot of people I have spoken with seem to go towards the Kenwood radios. From my research, ICOM seems a better value for the money. Also I think a combination of FRS/GMRS with more watts (4 I think) seems more versitile. What do you think?

[messenger13]

Wow Brian! Surely you musta been OVERWHELMED with the responses here! :rolleyes:

I came to this forum with the intention of learning all about the latest & greatest FRS/GMRS radios . . . and the gods just ain't speaking. What's up with that?!?!


HELLO OUT THERE!!!

[vstromboli]

Okay (poor guy), I'll chime in here with whatever little knowledge/experience I have.

I also have the LT specific Baehr system with the Icom F21GM FRS/GMRS radio that Raffy sells and my buddies, who have Autocom systems, have the Kenwood FreeTalk XL (FRS/GMRS 2W) units. I have found that the extra 2 watts I have on the Icom allows has a much better talk range than their Kenwoods. When we travel apart from each other I can still pick them up audibly long after they've lost contact with me.

The Icom radios use a non-standard channel selection, i.e. Kenwood and other brand channel is set to 5/22 and the Icom equivalent is something like 11/12. It's a bit odd but once the Icom is set to match the standard channel/sub-channel you leave it alone.

The Icoms are pretty rugged units and longer lasting batteries are also available. I think the Kenwoods are also good and you may want to check to see if Kenwood offers a 4 watt FRS/GMRS model. Either way I don't think you can go wrong.

Hope this all makes sense.

[BillyOmaha]

Howdy Brian,

I frequently ride with the "Posse" in groups of 2 - 30 riders. I have the BMW badged J&M comm system (loaded with farkles)including the Kenwood TK-3131 GMRS. Other riders use the ICOM. There are a few that use other than those two, but not many.

Considerations:
Kenwood TK3131 GMRS... fairly rugged, pre-programmed channel and sub-channels. Easy to switch channels and has a display to tell you status. Moderate range (watts).

ICOM GMRS....very rugged, not preprogrammed for channels or sub-channels... although not too terribly difficult to set up. No display. Superior range.

The Kenwood is less money (if broken or stolen, not too expensive to replace). My Kenwood is going on 2 yrs of frequent use in heat, cold, hail and rain and is still working well.

All in all, if I had it to do over again, I'd go with the Kenwood.

IMPORTANT: Make sure that you can get a cable for the radio you select to connect to the comm system you have. Sometimes they are not immediately available.

.

[bob_menton]

Okay (poor guy), I'll chime in here with whatever little knowledge/experience I have.

I also have the LT specific Baehr system with the Icom F21GM FRS/GMRS radio that Raffy sells and my buddies, who have Autocom systems, have the Kenwood FreeTalk XL (FRS/GMRS 2W) units. I have found that the extra 2 watts I have on the Icom allows has a much better talk range than their Kenwoods. When we travel apart from each other I can still pick them up audibly long after they've lost contact with me.

The Icom radios use a non-standard channel selection, i.e. Kenwood and other brand channel is set to 5/22 and the Icom equivalent is something like 11/12. It's a bit odd but once the Icom is set to match the standard channel/sub-channel you leave it alone.

The Icoms are pretty rugged units and longer lasting batteries are also available. I think the Kenwoods are also good and you may want to check to see if Kenwood offers a 4 watt FRS/GMRS model. Either way I don't think you can go wrong.

Hope this all makes sense.

As RoboCop said, "I'm having ... trouble." If you can "... still pick them up audibly long after they've lost contact with me ...", then it means that THEY have stronger transmitted signals than you do ... or that your receiver is much better than theirs. I see no correlation between your "extra 2 watts of transmitted power" and the stated performance of your unit. Correction: the correlation is (minus-1) - it's the exact opposite of what should happen if your extra transmitted power is doing some noticeable good. If your extra 2 watts is working for you, they should be able to hear you long after you can no longer hear them.

I just finished my dinner Manhattan, so my brain waves may be screwed up by excesses of alcohol. Is my thinking correct here ?????

- Bob KG3J

[BillyOmaha]

...If your extra 2 watts is working for you, they should be able to hear you long after you can no longer hear them.

I just finished my dinner Manhattan, so my brain waves may be screwed up by excesses of alcohol. Is my thinking correct here ?????

- Bob KG3J

Howdy Bob,

Have another Manhattan, and one for me ;), 'cause you're on the mark!

I can hear those ICOM's long after I'm beyond the range of my Kenwood.


.

[Tallyho]

Just to clarify, the Kenwood XL 3131 max power is 1 watt, not two and only a half watt on the FRS frequencies. I use an ICOM set on two watts and often ride with Kenwood users. Less than half a mile and they are gone. Get separated a couple miles by a rogue buffalo herd and you might not see them again until Old Faithful! I had a Kenwood and it was very easy to use as well as compact. If you are riding close aboard with other riders, they work very well. The ICOM is less user friendly when you first get it but I can program it with my eyes closed now. Once you get your freqs set on either radio, you pretty much don't touch the buttons again other than to turn it on and off. Much to my consternation, I discovered the ICOM is not as rugged as I hoped and recently had most of the guts resoldered under warranty. They are a great company that makes good on their units. Final thought is that the ICOM has more power conversion options and battery capacity options that last 12-14 hours and recharge overnight. BMW no longer makes a cable for the ICOM radio to interface with their factory comm systems. Kenwood only.

[RaffyK]

Baehr does not have a cable for the Kenwood. They have the cable that fits the ICOM type pinout. Kenwood's pinout is different and not standard.

Posting from Tehachepi Best Western.

[bruce2000ltc]

I have the Baehr K1200LT specific intercom. It works flawlessly for rider to passenger, cell phone and radio/CD integration. With my son now entering the riding world and having joined a riding club for group rides, I find myself in need of bike to bike communication. I know Baehr sells the PTT button and any needed cables to make this happen. Question is, and I'm somewhat of a neophiteon this subject, what two way radios to get? A lot of people I have spoken with seem to go towards the Kenwood radios. From my research, ICOM seems a better value for the money. Also I think a combination of FRS/GMRS with more watts (4 I think) seems more versitile. What do you think?
First, be sure the GMRS/FRS radio you purchase will work with your Baehr. Just because it will plug in doesn't mean it will work, i.e., won't transmit.
Contrary to what most people think, wattage doesn't really matter that much and none of the radios you buy will have the range they advertise (probably less than a quarter). What matters the most is the antenna and more importantly its height. The ICOM has a taller antenna than most and this explains it's slightly better range. Since all FRS and most GMRS radios have a fixed antenna your range will be limited. GMRS regulations allow the use of remote antennas and if your radio has a removable antenna you can easily connect a coax cable and use a much taller aftermarket GMRS antenna. Most of the aftermarket GMRS antennas have a 2.5 to 3 db gain and should significantly increase your radios range.
I'm in the process of building and testing a J-pole antenna. I'll let you know how it works out.

Bruce Hodges

[DaFlake]

Baehr does not have a cable for the Kenwood. They have the cable that fits the ICOM type pinout. Kenwood's pinout is different and not standard.

Posting from Tehachepi Best Western.

Is there a cable available to hook up the Icom with the BMW/J&M system?

TIA

Ramon

[scottydawg]

Posting from Tehachepi Best Western.

Sounds like a place Bob Bacon would be stuck :D

[motorhead]

I have had great luck with my ICOM, range is super with cross chatter minimal once some security codes are implimented.

Mounted within easy reach & antenna (somewhat) vertical, have had no issues other than battery life over multi day trips. So I converted a battery eliminator case with a L.E.D. volt meter and installed a 3000mah battery pack in the tank bag.

I too have a Baehr comm system.

Scott

[messenger13]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm getting ready to buy an FRS/GMRS, and hated to do it without the comments of y'all. Right now, I'm leaning heavily toward the Icom.

But let me ask you this (coming outta left field). Does anyone have any experience with the Garmin Rino 110? It's their cheapest FRS/GMRS with a barebones GPS built into it. I don't need a GPS, but my riding buddy could use one...and for about $120, I was wondering if it was worth it. Or, is it junk?!

[vstromboli]

As RoboCop said, "I'm having ... trouble." If you can "... still pick them up audibly long after they've lost contact with me ...", then it means that THEY have stronger transmitted signals than you do ... or that your receiver is much better than theirs. I see no correlation between your "extra 2 watts of transmitted power" and the stated performance of your unit. Correction: the correlation is (minus-1) - it's the exact opposite of what should happen if your extra transmitted power is doing some noticeable good. If your extra 2 watts is working for you, they should be able to hear you long after you can no longer hear them.

I just finished my dinner Manhattan, so my brain waves may be screwed up by excesses of alcohol. Is my thinking correct here ?????

- Bob KG3J

Bob, you're absolutely right and I stand corrected. THEY hear ME clearly long after their transmissions to me are broken up.

[Tallyho]

Keep in mind that the ICOM and Kenwood TK 3131 both have digital subchannel capability to very finely limit use to a specific user group. This helps immensely in cutting down cross talk and rogue key-ups as you move. I disagree that wattage does not make that much difference. Clearly a four watt GMRS on a digital subchannel will smoke a half watt, publicly open FRS freq. Yes, they are all line of sight. I switched my antenna on the ICOM from the stock seven inch model to the 3.5 inch loaded stubby with virtually no difference. I will tell you that when I moved the radio from my tank bag to a handlebar mount, communications took a large jump in quality especially with those riders behind me. I was able to use the scan function on the ICOM(Ch16) and listen to all the bike chatter going on from south of Jenny Lake to bikes coming into Coulter Bay from the north even from my room at JLL. If you are going to use a separated antenna on your GMRS, I would make sure you get the appropriate license that is required on all GMRS radios. They can impound your bike if you get pulled over for something else and they happen to check. I would get the license anyway. Look at what happened to Arnold. You can do it online in about five minutes. My intention is not to trash the Kenwood, it's a fine radio. If you decide to get a TK3131, make sure that is what you are buying. Not the old TK3100s that are laying around BMW dealerships at half off. This is not the digital model. Check the internet for deals on the Kenwood. B&H Photo usually has a good price on them.

Again, BMW no longer makes an interface cable for the J&M BC series intercom. Only for Kenwood. The Kenwood plugs are the exact opposite of the rest of the world. The 2.5mm pin is headset and the 3.5mm pin is mic. It is possible to get converters at Radio Shack but it's not very pretty when you get it done. BMW used to make a universal cable that they referred to as the "Motorola" version. Its number is BFRS 200 on the cable itself. It will interface the BC series intercom with the ICOM but the cable is only about 15 inches long. Designed to place the radio in a tank bag or oddments box. This really limits transmission quality and puts the radio very close to the engine from a transient static perspective. However, you can get extensions at audio stores to run it up to the handlebar RAM mount. There are directions and a schematic for making your own cable from an old computer mouse cable on the archive site. So you just need to find the 200 cable or build one yourself.

[bruce2000ltc]

I disagree that wattage does not make that much difference. Clearly a four watt GMRS on a digital subchannel will smoke a half watt, publicly open FRS freq. Yes, they are all line of sight. I switched my antenna on the ICOM from the stock seven inch model to the 3.5 inch loaded stubby with virtually no difference. I will tell you that when I moved the radio from my tank bag to a handlebar mount, communications took a large jump in quality especially with those riders behind me. .
Yes, but so will a 1 or 2 watt. Most people make the mistake that a 2 watt will have twice the range of a 1 watt and so on. And the manufactures perpetuate this with their false advertising. Higher wattage can improve transmission quality but so will a good radio over box store bubble pack radios.
Moving your radio away from obstacles (on the LT, that would be you) will improve your range -- and the higher the better.

Bruce hodges

[jamesgoodchild]

As long as you don't mind seperate ends for the radio, you can build a cable fairly easily. Its almost impossible to find a molded dual plug end although I did find one source http://www.imc-electronics.com. In Canada at the recent Calgary Bike show, they sold a dual plug 3.5mm/2.5mm adapter cable that goes to a female 3.5mm(1/8 in) stereo plug. The cable is about 6 inches long and if cut has 4 wires in it that can be fitted to the cable connecting your ICOM or Kenwood radio. The cost at the show was $5.

[CWF]

Yes, but so will a 1 or 2 watt. Most people make the mistake that a 2 watt will have twice the range of a 1 watt and so on. And the manufactures perpetuate this with their false advertising. Higher wattage can improve transmission quality but so will a good radio over box store bubble pack radios.
Moving your radio away from obstacles (on the LT, that would be you) will improve your range -- and the higher the better.


Agreed...IIRC doubling the power into an ideal (isotropic) radiating antenna (and I don't think one exists on Earth!) will yield about a %40 increase in range. I'm not a big fan of increasing power on any radio above what is absolutely necessary to communicate. Increasing power over other users is sometimes called being an "Alligator Station" i.e. all mouth and no ears :)

Using a better antenna (which can mean a lot of things besides just higher gain) will help you a whole lot more than just adding power and you'll be able to hear others as well as they hear you.