About cops

[fenixroyale]

There's a lot that's been said lately about cop bashing, but here's the thing. Just because people beef on this forum about bad cops doesn't mean that all cops are bad, or that any cops on this list should take it personally.

I've said that I don't particularly like cops, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like you if I knew you, even if you are a cop. Or that you wouldn't like me. What do we know about each other? Not much. Every damn one of us has many qualities that redeem us, no matter who we are or what else we think and believe. Some of the same guys that complain about cop bashing were the most vocal politico bashers during the recent session, but there are no Senators, mayors or judges on the list to complain. Or to whine, as someone recently said I was doing.

Discussing the bad behavior of some cops --and there's no shortage of documented instances -- isn't an attack on any one cop, and shouldn't be interpreted as a condemnation of cops in general (although that's probably easy for me to say since no one generally makes ad hoc attacks on freelance writers).

And regrettably, I contributed to that. But criminy. People need a vent for their frustrations, and it is frustrating for so many of us to be under the authority of others who have no right to hold positions of power, and never should be allowed to, just because they passed a civil service test and wear a uniform handed to them by the city.

I applaud the heroism of cops, and that includes many on this list who I have come to know at least a little from the quality and content of their posts, even if they have not come to know me. Believe it or not I know that each day you pull on the uniform and go out to work is an individual act of heroism. I know that you would risk your life to save my baby, my wife, or even me, even if you don't particularly like me.

Perhaps it should be taken as a sign of the times and used as a basis for helping to change things from within. Who better than you...the good guys, the good cops, to help change the poor actors who really got all this started? It didn't start with citizens, or even criminals. Thinking about it, I believe it started with people who were treated like criminals, who weren't criminals. At least I know that's where it started with me.

If I offended anyone making the blanket statement that I dislike cops, I apologize, for indeed I mis-thought and misspoke. I dislike bad cops, and as someone said in a recent thread, bad cops are the ones who make the news. All of you heroes generally do not. I have come to believe, since this thread started, that the good guys do, indeed, outnumber the bad. For that insight I thank Lonewuff, and the rest of you.

No hard feelings, I hope. I'll buy any of you a beer if you swing through my town, siren wailing or not. But I still think it's important to understand that a general unhappiness with your profession, and widespread distrust of it -- the profession you chose -- does not equate to an attack upon you, any more than a distrust of politicians should be interpreted as an attack on Andy, our Mayor.

T.

[gunny]

Ted:
Know exactly where youre coming from.

[motorman587]

Thanks for the post, you stated that you were mistreated by a cop. Do not know what the details for that encounter was or why. I can tell you that how does one know who is good or who is bad? There are two sides to each story. Not knowing why the cop stop you or the reason. There is a fine line about treating people with respect, sure I too have treat someone like crap, but that is because I did not know who they where, and I had to make a quick decision, not to make excuses. You can not treat everyone as your friend. You will die. Like I said, if I had to explain nobody would understand.

Right now I sure this will get worst. In my department, they took our cell phones, (yes I will you use my personal phone if you need it) they are going to take our cop cars way. Again for some this no big deal, but if you just walked a mile in cop shoes you would understand.

[Lonewuff]

All Ted's are dicks!!!
:histerica

Great post Ted, thank you. Like John, I don't know the circumstances of what happened with you and am not going to defend the situation you were in at all. I know that there are a lot of people out there that would probably complain about how I treated them, but sometimes their treatment comes from my self preservation and training, rather than the actions of a bad apple. It is impossible for people to understand the idea that if we treat everyone like a buddy, then one day we are dead, because a small percentage are not our buddy. You know you are a great guy, but to a police officer you are another violater that has the potential to be a problem.

Best example I can give you: I stopped two kids walking down a major highway. I was doing paperwork in a shopping area and saw them both drinking beers. So I pulled up behind them and didn't see the beers anymore. I asked both of them to put their hands on the hood of my patrol car. At that moment I did not feel any threat or think either of these two 17 year olds were a problem, however one of them made a fast grab into his coat, in the same motion someone would draw a weapon from a shoulder holster. My training and skills caused me to simply react, without any hesitation or thought to what the kid was doing. Suddenly a furtive movement caused me to respond in a manor I had trained for after many years with the badge. I slammed him to the ground and arm barred him, then cuffed him with the speed of a cowboy on a roped calf. When I opened the jacket I found the beer bottle. Then the other boy tells me the kid is deaf. I took them both to Juvy and on the way there the kid I mauled was kicking the back of the seats and screaming all the way. When we got to juvy I told one of the deputies to watch the kid while I wrote a note. I took the time to explain to him why I treated him the way I did and told him I understood "NOW" that he was only trying to be helpful, but that if I allowed everyone to go into their coat, some day I will meet someone who isn't being helpful. He understood and later we became pretty good friends. He would see me parked somewhere and always come up and teach me a couple of new signs, so we could communicate, even though he read lips perfectly. Long story short, he could have told everyone what a dick I had been to him, when he was just trying to be helpful and hand me his beer. To this day I am thankful I took the time to write the note, but I know there are a lot of others out there that didn't get the note. To them I was just a dick...but I am still alive to jack with all the Ted's on the list. :D

[gbowman]

That was a well written piece Ted, thank you.

There are bad LEO's out there and no one can argue with you on that point. I happen to personally know a couple myself. One was fired and the other is still on the line.

The problem with this profession is that we are under a microscope. We are held to a higher standard then other employees in other professions (and justifiably so). Humans are known to make errors. We are required to make decissoins in seconds that will be scrunitized for months to come by Attorneys, Judges, and many times the general public.

Our job also sells newpapers, the 5 o'clock news, and the National Enquirer. If we crew up by accident or if it was intentional, we will get what's coming to us. There's nothing worse then getting up in the morning only to read the daily rag and find your photo and an article about what you did the day before on the front page. At that point, you better have done your job right. There will always be bad apples in this job. The good guys don't like anymore then you do.

One bad cop to a thousand good cops is still to many.

Thanks,
gary

[fenixroyale]

All Ted's are dicks!!!
:histerica




I am in no position to argue with that, you'll have to clear that one with The Good Ted, bud.

Thanks for the kind and thoughtful responses Jerry, Gary.

T.

[Yiet]

The life of a cop requires them to see the very worst of human behavior on a daily basis. Each day we expect them to step between humans in conflict who are dysfunctional as individuals and within their social groups. We then expect them to meet a normal productive citizen and treat them as a friend, but instantly convert again to deal with another life threatening situation. After their shift is over their spouse and children expect them home as sane, relaxed and empathetic as the accountant next door, the minute they step in the door.

Society expects a lot does it not? In most police services today the standards of admittance are far beyond a single civil service exam. Most police organizations require extensive background investigations, psychological exams, polygraph tests and a variety of screening tests all designed to pick those who are strong of character and conviction. But the unfortunate reality is that as well intentioned as these young recruits may be, their experience too will turn many of them into frustrated cynics.

Unfortunately, many (all?) of these new recruits join an organization and culture that is totally frustrated and cynical about society and where we are going as communities and nations. Innately, the senior officers know that there are many in society that are honorable and good citizens but experience tells them on a daily basis that society is in a downward spiral. The new recruit, although carefully selected, is quickly surrounded by experienced colleagues and personal experience that induce frustration and cynicism. It is truly exceptional when they maintain such a positive and professional outlook as many of the LEOs who post on this board clearly do.

Our good officers do not need attacks from our good citizens for the black sheep in their family. They need our respect, our support and our undying gratitude for even contemplating this most unrewarding task to deal with the human detritus of our society. When we choose to critique an avocation that risks their lives on our behalf, we ought to do so with extreme discretion and diplomacy for fear that the thousand who work diligently may be discouraged by the one who deceives us all. It is NOT encouraging or supportive to any good police officer to see threads that state cops get their kicks by "tasering". Would any of us seriously think to criticize the entire military for some of the conduct at Guantanamo Bay?

While we ask our soldiers to go and risk their lives against the alien enemy, we ask our police officers to defend us from the enemy within. Which task takes more courage? Which death is harder for the parent to explain to the child with a parent lost to evil violence?

I do not ask you to turn a blind eye to the "cop gone bad", but I do ask you to give at least as much credit and respect to the cop as you give to the soldier, for they both walk out there on your behalf while you sleep soundly tonight.

There was a wise police chief, Sir Robert Peel, who once said that "the police are the community, and the community are the police". If we really want to improve our communities and our police we, as a collective, need to take these words to heart.

Thanks to those who serve and protect; or as we say in the frozen north, "maintiens le droit".

[Lonewuff]

Yiet,

Very well said. Thank you!!!

While I was in the academy the Latin version of "Maintains The Right" was on the wall. It was never mentioned, but showed up on the final exam. About 15% of the class hadn't even noticed the plaque and another 60% saw it, but never looked up its meaning. I had been curious enough in the first week to ask one of the cadre what it meant (and actually remembered it six months later :) ).

Years later I worked a case that took me up to your gorgeous country. I went into a large Mountie Station and saw the French version you quoted hanging above the officer's break room. So, this tells me you were/are either a Mountie or you spent WAY too much time in their stations. :D

[gbowman]

Thanks Braun. Your kind words instill a sense of pride.

[jayjacobson]

Thanks for the post, Ted. No offense ever taken. I hope no one gets too serious in this forum. I NEVER do!

[c00k1e]

What an interesting thread. Good to hear such well thought out arguments.
Same as in the UK, there are a few bad cops, a good cop doesn't stand out I suppose. I mean, if you are doing nothing wrong, a good cop leaves you alone. I had a very tainted opinion of cops for years, due to a pull that was, in his words 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time'. Got done for something I didn't do at all - and the cop knew it and laughed about it. Chances are I will never have that happen again, I hope not, it makes you feel real powerless and vulnerable.
Recently I have been involved with motorbike cops, real good riders they are and teach young bikers how to ride safe. These guys do the service some amazing PR and I take my hat off to them.
If society can't trust its police force, we are all in big trouble. They rely on the public for information and witnesses. The bad guys don't get done if we don't speak up and then we blame the cops for letting the bad guys go!
Thinking about it, I bet good cops hate bad cops more than the rest of us.

[Lonewuff]

I bet good cops hate bad cops more than the rest of us.


You have "NO" idea how bad the good cops hate the bad apple. Just makes our job 100 times harder. I have never and would never work Internal Affairs, but I have put a couple of cops away and didn't even feel a twinge of guilt. I got more pats on the back from my fellow officers for those than any other arrest too.

[robasay]

In response to Yiet, I used to tell people when they asked what it was like being a police officer, how did you handle it? I tell them that you have to learn to work you shift without emotion of things that you see which would normally piss you off, upset you, or make you sick, physically and emotionally.

I usually tell them the best explanation of what I have seen or done or experienced and how it made me feel in my life, is best explained through the emotional performance of the robot character in the move "Blade Runner" when he is on the roof with Harrison Ford and it is raining and he is telling him what he has seen and done in his short life that was now coming to end. That scene just about sums it up for me.

[jayjacobson]

In response to Yiet, I used to tell people when they asked what it was like being a police officer, how did you handle it? I tell them that you have to learn to work you shift without emotion of things that you see which would normally piss you off, upset you, or make you sick, physically and emotionally....
Compartmentalization--I would liken it to having a million, little stacked boxes. Each horrible incident, gets it's own little box--which is recorded, marked, categorized, and securely stacked away with all the other little boxes.

As a police officer, you have to be good at compartmentalizing. Don't you even THINK of pulling one of those little boxes out at the wrong time! :eek: Say, at home, or with your kids, or with the old lady, etc, etc....