What makes BMW's brakes so darn good?

[messenger13]

OK...I should've said "Brembo", not BMW. But still, the feel at the lever for just being 4-pot calipers is nothing short of miraculous. And quite frankly, I just don't get it.

I wasn't satisfied with just replacing the brake lines on my Ninja to braided lines, the calipers needed changing also. So, I replaced my Ninja's OEM 4-pot front calipers with those off of a 2001 Suzuki Gixxer 1000. They're 6-pot calipers...and MAN! :eek: Did they make a HUGE difference! So finally, the Ninja's brakes feel just like . . . um . . . the LT's brakes do!

So how is it that those little 4-potters stop such a big bike so effortlessly?! I just don't get it...

[Sharkey]

Can you say power brakes. Maybe because of the electrohydrulic pump in the system.

[meese]

It's not just the Integral brake pumps. The earlier LTs also have excellent brakes (assuming you changed the stock rear pads to EBCs). The power brakes help, but only in that they react a bit faster and require much less lever travel to achieve a similar braking force.

I'm not sure of the technical details, but I do know that Brembo has about the best reputation out there for brakes. It's kinda like Öhlins for shocks: sure there are alternate vendors that also make excellent products, but you just know that Öhlins shocks are the best quality available.

[Daman858]

Rode a buddiy's HD Fat Boy last week. Brakes? What brakes?

[Bayliner2052]

Brembo becomes a Harley-Davidson supplier



The supply of the braking system for the 2006 VRSCR Street Rod is a milestone in the North America development for Brembo.

[fas]

I've worked with Brembo in Italy now for over 20 years. They gave me a few million for friction when I was the VP at PFC. Indy Car, NASCAR, and Touring car mostly at that time. They are excellent at making braking systems, not good. They just won the new Ducati business with Hawk pads. I was the president of Hawk Performance when I left PFC. I still help Hawk as a gunner for special targets. Hawk also owns SKWellman. Some of you may remember the old Velvet Touch brand. They do a ton of aircraft friction and tranmission friction for ZF, Allison, Cat, John Deere and others. The key in the case of Brembo is the caliper system rigidity combined with optimized piston bores and locations across the pads backing plates. The discs are optimized to avoid both dynamic and thermal distortion, thus facililtating very linear torque. Translation, feels good to the rider. Brembo's tech center in Bergamo is one of the best in the world. The nice thing is when you walk in the lobby the Ferrari V12 F1 engine sits on the top level of the stairs next to the board room door. The walls are lined with peach marble from the local Italilan digs.

[dshealey]

-----------They are excellent at making braking systems, not good.

Now, if they would just team up with BMW and figure out which of the two companies is responsible for the years old problem of squealing rear brakes on the LT. Brembo screw up in caliper/rotor design, or BMW in how they are mounted. You would think that one of the two companies would be able to address this, it sure has been a problem for long enough now.

[messenger13]

Now, if they would just team up with BMW and figure out which of the two companies is responsible for the years old problem of squealing rear brakes on the LT.They don't have to. EBC did it for them. :)

(I haven't heard a peep in 31K miles.)

[dshealey]

They don't have to. EBC did it for them. :)

(I haven't heard a peep in 31K miles.)

I had 2 sets of EBCs on the rear of my LT. They did not stop the problem, just moved it to only at slow speed and low pressure. They were quiet at speed, but when just about stopped (when there were people around to hear them) they would squeal. I got to using ONLY front brakes at that just about stopped region.

The last set of pads on the rear were BMW, due to the dealer in Nashville putting them on when the rear drive was replaced. Guess what: They NEVER squealed! Cannot explain it. The first two sets of BMW pads sure did.

[dlancello]

I had 2 sets of EBCs on the rear of my LT. They did not stop the problem, just moved it to only at slow speed and low pressure. They were quiet at speed, but when just about stopped (when there were people around to hear them) they would squeal. I got to using ONLY front brakes at that just about stopped region.

The last set of pads on the rear were BMW, due to the dealer in Nashville putting them on when the rear drive was replaced. Guess what: They NEVER squealed! Cannot explain it. The first two sets of BMW pads sure did.
the new BMW pads have a shim attached tothe back. A little thingy we Americans came up with back in the early 90s to stop the metalic pads from squeeling when the auto manufacturers were told to get rid of the asbestos.

[woodysLT]

My dealer told me that if you put a little pad grease (anti-squeal) between the pad and puck that it should help keep the pad from free floating and draging against the rotor casuing the squealing noise. Has anyone tried this approach?
:bmw:

[Frenchy]

They were quiet at speed, but when just about stopped (when there were people around to hear them) they would squeal.

Damn !

Just purchased complete sets of EBC. :eek:

I've changed the rear and it stops the bike better than before, but before, I had no squeal... :(

Now I have.

[grifscoots]

Damn !

Just purchased complete sets of EBC. :eek:

I've changed the rear and it stops the bike better than before, but before, I had no squeal... :(

Now I have.

Did you seat the new brakes?

[dshealey]

Damn !

Just purchased complete sets of EBC. :eek:

-----------

Front also? If so, has EBC added the anti-rattle springs for the front pads? If not, they rattle badly when riding over rough surfaces.

[messenger13]

Hey David...did you edit your avatar?

[grifscoots]

Not only did he edit it, but it makes him look like an injuneer!

[dshealey]

Hey David...did you edit your avatar?

Yep. Had my picture taken at work for Passport renewal, decided to use it here.

[hoog62]

Thank God, I was about to ask if you could post the side view they took too. :D

[messenger13]

Thank God, I was about to ask if you could post the side view they took too. :DI originally typed something very similar to that...then edited it. Didn't want to be mean. ;)

[dshealey]

I originally typed something very similar to that...then edited it. Didn't want to be mean. ;)

Here is what Joe sent me. :p

I told him it was a good thing for me there was not enough room on the sides for the height numbers. :D

http://mail.bmwlt.net/~messenger13/pics/DS.jpg

[messenger13]

ARMED!

http://mail.bmwlt.net/~messenger13/pics/DS.jpg
...and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!!

:D :D :D

[JATownsend]

ARMED!

http://mail.bmwlt.net/~messenger13/pics/DS.jpg
...and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!!

:D :D :D

Armed, maybe...EXTREMELY HELPFUL...!YES ;) Thanks David!! :)

BTW, that's a very nice picture of your grandfather.

[gunny]

I've worked with Brembo in Italy now for over 20 years. They gave me a few million for friction when I was the VP at PFC. Indy Car, NASCAR, and Touring car mostly at that time. They are excellent at making braking systems, not good. They just won the new Ducati business with Hawk pads. I was the president of Hawk Performance when I left PFC. I still help Hawk as a gunner for special targets. Hawk also owns SKWellman. Some of you may remember the old Velvet Touch brand. They do a ton of aircraft friction and tranmission friction for ZF, Allison, Cat, John Deere and others. The key in the case of Brembo is the caliper system rigidity combined with optimized piston bores and locations across the pads backing plates. The discs are optimized to avoid both dynamic and thermal distortion, thus facililtating very linear torque. Translation, feels good to the rider. Brembo's tech center in Bergamo is one of the best in the world. The nice thing is when you walk in the lobby the Ferrari V12 F1 engine sits on the top level of the stairs next to the board room door. The walls are lined with peach marble from the local Italilan digs.

Translation: German Engineering

[murray]

OK...I should've said "Brembo", not BMW. But still, the feel at the lever for just being 4-pot calipers is nothing short of miraculous. And quite frankly, I just don't get it.

I wasn't satisfied with just replacing the brake lines on my Ninja to braided lines, the calipers needed changing also. So, I replaced my Ninja's OEM 4-pot front calipers with those off of a 2001 Suzuki Gixxer 1000. They're 6-pot calipers...and MAN! :eek: Did they make a HUGE difference! So finally, the Ninja's brakes feel just like . . . um . . . the LT's brakes do!

So how is it that those little 4-potters stop such a big bike so effortlessly?! I just don't get it...
Joe take a look at the back or inboard side of your 02 front caliper , You will be suprised !

TOKIO is stamped on the caliper not "Brembo"
Servo assist