Look Ma -- No Brakes!

[rodneyinmaypearltx]

Installed Spieglers on a 2000 LT and now am the sad owner of an LT with no brakes.

I've bled the heck out of the calipers using the recommended method (Clymer's Manual), except I didn't remove the calipers and compress the pistons to reduce the volume. I then moved to the ABS unit to bleed it.

When bleeding the ABS it seems to have a very tight restriction from the reservoir to the ABS bleeder. With the ABS bleeder cracked 1/4 turn, DOT 4 barely seeps through, using the Mighty Vac. I've filled/emptied the front reservoir 6 to 8 times and still no joy.

Did a search and read the HOW article on this subject and it's all pretty straightforward except bleeding the ABS unit, which is where it becomes very vague with conflicting opinions. Also one opinion that using the full stroke of the lever/ pedal to pump the brakes may damage the piston?

Anyone else encounter this problem, or am I the Lone Ranger in the Lone Star?

[dgoodbmw]

Question???? Are you sure you have the calipers on the correct side, the bleeders need to be on the top for air to get out. Seems simple enough but ive seen it happen.

[grifscoots]

The LT's I've bled have let air in thru the stock bleeders. Try wrapping some teflon tape around the threads.

[rodneyinmaypearltx]

Thanks for the responses.

I had the same concern of air leakage around the threads, but after installing speed bleeders I wasn't as concerned, as the speed bleeders come with thread compound on them.

The ABS is a different story, as speed bleeder won't fit because the bleeder there has quite a bit longer threads, and also a o-ring above the threads. My next step is to (per Clymer) seal up the threads with silicone brake grease, which I have availed myself of. Just for good measure, I think I'll also tape the threads.

[drjohn55]

i don't believe your problem is in the bleeders as the bleeders don't seal with the threads but make a seal when they bottom out in the bleed port in the caliper. if you let the master cylinder run out of fluid you will have to bleed it before you can get any brakes.
good luck, john

[grifscoots]

i don't believe your problem is in the bleeders as the bleeders don't seal with the threads but make a seal when they bottom out in the bleed port in the caliper. I'll bet you a dollar you're wrong.

[hallzee]

I'll bet you a dollar you're wrong.
In today's economy, you should bet at the most 75 cents, due to low consumer confidence.

[jzeiler]

Another trick to try is get a large syringe and force fluid from the calipers back up to the reservoirs. Since you started on empty (replacing the lines) this may be the only way to fill it back up. After all that is how they fill it at the factory.

[bigbear]

+1 on the syringe idea.

Silly question:
Do you get any presssure when pumping the brake lever? If not you have a leak some where. Even with air in the system you will usually get some braking, maybe very little but some.

Since I don't know how the ABS system works on your bike, is there a valve that releases the pressure to the calipers? if so could this be stuck open?

Just a couple of thoughts from a darn Yankee.

Not a Damn Yankee... I have just visited some southern states but never stayed there :D

Roy

[retiredjj]

I might be totally wrong on this but on my 99, which I believe has the same system as an 00, I replaced brake fluid by simply opening up the caliper bleeder and letting the old flow out, via tube to container, untill the new stuff started flowing thru from the resevoir. No pumping just gravity. I admit I was surprised to have it work that way as I was prepared to pump the brake lever but it was totally unnecessary. Perhaps the 00 is different. The brakes work just fine now.

[deanwoolsey]

You may have an air pocket where your new speigler connects to the master cylinder. This acts as a "spring", rebounding the fluid back into the master cylinder and thus preventing proper bleeding. While it's messy, you can loosen the banjo fitting and pump the handle to eliminate this if it is the source of your problem. You can also try pulling the brake lever fully against the handle and tying it off for a few hours to see if the bubbles will float up. Also try putting the cycle on the side stand and making sure the handle bars are turned so that the master cylinder is level and at it's highest point possible.

[rodneyinmaypearltx]

I like the syringe idea but how do you seal it off to avoid the fluid from escaping at the bleeder when you apply pressure to the syringe?

[rodneyinmaypearltx]

I'm going to be back at it Sunday and I'm going to try:
1-teflon on the bleeder threads

2-trying to "burp" the area between the master cylinder and the first banjo (the only other place you will find a "first banjo" is in a Bluegrass "orchestra" playing in Carnegie Hall).

3-do the "gravity bleed" by opening the bleeder and allowing it to sit a few hours.

Thx for all the suggestions.

[jzeiler]

For sealing the syringe, just remove the bleeder and jam the end of the syringe into the hole. The goal here is to fill the system, then bleed normally.

[rodneyinmaypearltx]

FYI
Just now getting around to posting the final solution to the problem of bleeding the front brakes after installing new lines:

The whole problem was in the master cylinder on the handlbar. A bubble seems to form there that will not always purge using the conventional method of bleeding (in my case just sucking brake fluid through the lines with vacuum pump). I still don't know why, but that's life!

Clymer recommended breaking the banjo at the master cylinder, pump, hold, tighten. Tried that, didn't get it. Talked to a Greg (tech at Fort Worth BMW) and he recommended snapping the brake on and releasing quickly (cover the top to avoid spurting brake fluid all over!). Did that a few time, and it did the trick.

Sorry for the tardy post, but life has been happening in between.

Thanks for all input.

[jzeiler]

Glad you figured it out Rodney and thanks for letting us know. Happy Riding.