My Catholic family.. informed conscience.

[cfell]

Fr. Corapi is quite a powerful witness of God's mercy. He speaks with clarity that cannot be refuted or denied. His words echo the sorrow of the Holy Spirit of God.

The link below is to Fr. John Corapi's website which has 3 videos which clearly speak of our responsibilities as American Citizens.

I completely agree with his position.. and passion, so there is no need to elaborate.

http://www.fathercorapi.com/election.aspx

There is no doubt, our "choices" are clear and I agree with Fr. Corapi.

"God is not a disinterested spectator.".... just look at how America is changing ...

[meese]

Hm, does that post qualify as a simple cut & paste job? ;)

There is absolutely no basis to argue the abortion issue unless you first deal directly with the original problem. Rather than fighting about when life begins, and whether abortion is allowable in cases of rape and incest, deal with the original problem - why are women who don't want or can't have children getting pregnant?

We know how this happens. We have safe, reliable methods for preventing pregnancy. We have laws and moral codes in place that punish forced sex. Yet arguing abortion is like arguing how to punish the victims of drunk driving for their little "mishap", yet entirely ignoring the disease of alcoholism.

And hiding the natural bodily function that is sex under a bunch of misinformation and "moral" restrictions just doesn't work. Sex is an innate part of what makes us human, and can't simply be ignored or dismissed any more than you can simply tell folks to stop eating, or breathing. Hiding the truth and covering sex with shame doesn't stop folks. They're gonna have sex anyway and then they just end up confused, angry, and yes, sometimes even pregnant.

Go to the root cause of the problem, rather than fighting blindly about the symptoms after it's too late.

Anyone who claims to be against abortion, and also against age-appropriate sex-education, is either the lowest form of hypocrite, or a deluded bible-thumper who cares more about forcing their own "values" on everyone else than about those who they claim to be protecting.

As for father John (or friar John, or whomever), he may honestly believe that god has spoken to him, but he can still be refuted and denied. For all the gilt and trappings, religion is merely an opinion, and no more valid than any other opinion.

Besides, it's really a dead issue here. The hard-right has their poster child, and she's already lost. Step back, and accept your defeat gracefully.

[ldbikin]

+1000000000000000000 Mr. Meese...

some folks need to get real or we'll never solve the real problems.

[asleeplessknight]

Senator McCain gave us his opinion on contraception while riding on the "Straight Talk" Express....very eloquently, I might add. ;)

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[nplenzick]

Does the good father have a You Tube on how the Catholic church has hidden the molestation of young boys?

[meese]

Does the good father have a You Tube on how the Catholic church has hidden the molestation of young boys?You know what they say: Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers. :D

Not that I'm condoning anything that has been done in this manner, nor implying that the church was condoning it either. But when you force unrealistic expectations on individuals based on some screwed up moral code, you can't then be surprised when things go horribly wrong. You can, however, stand up for what is really right and out these criminals, instead of simply shuffling them about and hoping that it all blows over. That, in my opinion, was the biggest failing of the church in recent times, and is one reason why I will never trust any form of organized religion. Add in their usually condescending superiority and their insatiable need to force everyone else into their own little warped view of reality, and it's all over, I'm afraid.

[jayjacobson]

Does the good father have a You Tube on how the Catholic church has hidden the molestation of young boys?
Not so long ago, in Los Angeles, a top ranking Catholic Official got the shit kicked out of him, by multiple attackers, while walking from his church to the post office. Then, he refused to cooperate with police! Wonder what could have been going on there? Us morons, who might have been handling this shit, for say 18 years, wanna know :confused:

[hschisler]

You know what they say: Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers. :D That is such a cheap shot (emoticon or not) Ken, and you are so much better than that.

This topic is where you consistently do everything you slam religion for; you proclaim the infallibility of your position and attack anyone who disagrees.

I hold no illusions that I or anyone else is capable of changing your mind on this topic, and I'm pretty certain you won't be changing Channing's position. If that is true, why do you feel it necessary to tear down what someone believes?

I'll be over here in the corner, kicking myself in advance for even participating in this thread.

[meese]

That is such a cheap shot (emoticon or not) Ken, and you are so much better than that.Terrible pun that it is, you gotta admit there's some small truth to it. Not in every church, or with every priest, but in enough cases that it continues to be a serious problem. The fact that the church hasn't stood up and rooted out this problem with every resource available to them makes them somewhat complicit. And the various cases where they have actually protected those under accusation of such terrible crimes makes all those directly involved in the cover up accessories, in every legal and criminal sense of the word.

And I have no problem with someone believing whatever they want. I do have a problem with them forcing everyone else to believe the same things that they do, or continuously prostelitizing to others on how they need to live their lives. Whether it's done via word of mouth, through media advertising, or by lobbying to pass laws that force everyone into their own mold, it's just plain wrong.

And yeah, I have big problems with organized religion. Sure, it does good for many people, but there are just as many counter examples both currently and throughout history that I find the whole thing distasteful.

I believe that people have the right to live their own lives how they see fit, within the common constraints that we have set up as a society. I believe that all folks are equal, regardless of race, religion, sex, gender (not always the same difference there), sexual orientation, etc. That includes the right to marry whom you wish, the right to make decisions about your own body, the right to believe in whatever gets you through the day, and the right to be left in peace to do so.

We've already been over the whole abortion thing, which is to say that focusing only on the pregnancy while ignoring the causes of these unwanted pregnancies, and then ignoring the child (and the mother) once it is born is just plain hypocritical.

We've been over the freedom of religion thing, and the accompanying right to believe in None of the Above. Hell, I'd be happy if we could all just agree to disagree on that one.

And we've even touched on the whole gay marriage issue, but perhaps we can explore that a bit further, as it happens to pertain directly to this argument. There is currently a proposition on the California ballot to ban gay marriage. For this argument, we'll disregard the fact that no one has the right to codify such discrimination into law. And discrimination it is, same as if they were black, or Jewish, or any of the other groups that have suffered over the years because of folks who simply think they're "better" than others.

Instead, we'll focus on the fact that the pro-ban folks are being heavily funded by the mormons. That's right, mormons. From Utah. Trying to shoot down a legal right already given to Californians. The same folks that believe a man can marry as many women as he feels like and that's perfectly fair, have a problem with two men or two women devoting their lives to each other? And they feel that not only can they sway the California vote to support their own religious discrimination, but they also feel that they have the right to? WTF?

So yeah, I have an issue with organized religion and their continued power plays and brainwashing of those who are unable or unwilling to think for themselves. Or at the very least those who are simply unable to let others think and act for themselves without interference.

I hold no illusions that I or anyone else is capable of changing your mind on this topic, and I'm pretty certain you won't be changing Channing's position.If that is true (and I agree that it most likely is), then why do Channing and others feel the need to keep posting such drivel here? And yes, I include those who are notorious pot-stirrers in that, whether or not they may happen to hold similar beliefs as I do. If they truly believe in their own position, then there is no need to argue it. If they need to proclaim to the world how they are right, and all who oppose are wrong, then how weak is their argument?

I have a lot of respect for some deeply religious people, and also for some people who are deeply non-religious. But in each case that respect is given to the individual, not to the group or society they happen to claim allegiance to. Although I will admit that most of the folks that I admire simply carry on their lives according to their own beliefs and don't spend their time trying to change other's minds, or forcing the rest of the world to follow their own warped sense of how the world should work.

You will note that I will never start one of these threads on religion or politics - either to bash the other side, or to promote those views that I happen to hold. Just as I will never walk into your church and tell you that you're doing it wrong. But come into my community (either virtual or a real neighborhood) and tell me that I'm doing it wrong and you will meet with resistance, at least as strong as your initial attack, if not stronger.

So I will reserve the right to comment on anything that happens to get tossed out here for general discussion. At least while we still have that freedom left to us.

Clear enough? :)

[hoog62]

And I have no problem with someone believing whatever they want. I do have a problem with them forcing everyone else to believe the same things that they do, or continuously prostelitizing to others on how they need to live their lives. Whether it's done via word of mouth, through media advertising, or by lobbying to pass laws that force everyone into their own mold, it's just plain wrong.
It was pretty clear to me the post and video are addressing Catholics, not you or anybody else that took this opportunity to bash religion, and Catholics in particular. Maybe I'm wrong?


I believe ....
We know Ken. You also know that I agree with you on a lot of it, but I gotta ask...

You will note that I will never start one of these threads on religion or politics - either to bash the other side, or to promote those views that I happen to hold. Just as I will never walk into your church and tell you that you're doing it wrong. But come into my community (either virtual or a real neighborhood) and tell me that I'm doing it wrong and you will meet with resistance, at least as strong as your initial attack, if not stronger.

Do you bust out into this vitriol every time someone comes to witness at your doorstep? Do you put up signs next to the church marquee that say's "Jesus is the way and the truth and the light"?

Or, do you just save this "drivel" for your late Friday night postings to us? Nobody forced you to do anything in this thread; nobody attacked you in anyway.

You have said that R&P posts are a problem here, well, look at the number of posts and especially words here on both sides. Dude, you're a bigger part of the problem that you think....and don't give me any of that childish "he started it" bullshit.

Just because you have the right, doesn't make it right.

[phydough]

I believe that people have the right to live their own lives how they see fit, within the common constraints that we have set up as a society.
What a bunch of double talk.
“Common constraints we have set up” you mean the morals you agree with.

Seems like that is the issue here, changing the common restraints that have been have set up as a society. Some want to sympathize with the perversion of homosexuality and allow them to marry. When that is done, what then, sympathize with the child molester for his needs? Maybe you don’t agree with the child molester, but someone else dose.
Then are you shoving your morals down their throat when you vehemently disagree?
The only difference between your argument and that of what you call a bible thumper is your book keeps changing.

Marriage is a God thing - between a man and woman, it's out of the bible. The homosexuals want rights and insurance the same as married, fine. just don't confuse what marriage is.

And for abortion consider this; Go ahead and have your abortions, take your morning after pill….but how can anyone wait until the last possible moment of a 9 month pregnancy, pull the baby out by its legs first, right up to the base of its neck, stick a knife in there and suck out it’s brains? God or no God, what is wrong with people’s thinking that they feel the need to legalize the procedure of partial birth abortion? People are so hell-bent on their right to choose but apparently they can’t make up their mind for a whole nine months on whether to keep a baby?
Of course they would be living their lives as they see fit. Right?
We can’t allow our kids to even take so much as an aspirin into the school, but Obama’s first order of business is to pass laws that will allow a teenager to have an abortion without notification to the parent? And you want me to pay for it with my tax dollars?

[jayjacobson]

....There is currently a proposition on the California ballot to ban gay marriage. For this argument, we'll disregard the fact that no one has the right to codify such discrimination into law. And discrimination it is, same as if they were black, or Jewish, or any of the other groups that have suffered over the years because of folks who simply think they're "better" than others.....Instead, we'll focus on the fact that the pro-ban folks are being heavily funded by the mormons. That's right, mormons. From Utah. Trying to shoot down a legal right already given to Californians. The same folks that believe a man can marry as many women as he feels like and that's perfectly fair, have a problem with two men or two women devoting their lives to each other? And they feel that not only can they sway the California vote to support their own religious discrimination, but they also feel that they have the right to? WTF?....
Wouldn't it be great to get the big, nanny-state government out of our marriage, divorce, schools and bedrooms? That way we no longer have to "invent" rights that never existed to begin with (like privacy rights, marriage rights, education rights, etc.).

[pkpr1998]

It's ashamed that a few, can't figure out what "defines" a marriage!

Marriage is between a man and a woman! For the few who disagree with this statement and are reading this post, you need to thank your Mom and Dad (and God) for giving you life!

[eljeffe]

I think this about does it for this thread.

Move along.