BMWSportTouring Fourm no more for me.

[motorman587]

I use to hang there a lot. Had some good times and met some good friends, but I think the "Bouncers" have lost it. Threads just keep going and going and the attacks on certain professions, I drew the the line. I will not go back.

The attitude about riding and lack of respect for my "profession" LEOing was enough for me to call it quits.

I do not understand the mentally over there but between the two forums I believe and feel that is forum has the riders I would go on a ride with or have.

I have not seen it here to much and I feel that this being a more mature riding group members respect each others thoughts and opinion which I truly enjoy. So you will see me posting here more. Thank you for being such an understand board.

[meese]

For some people, "sport" riding means they can ride however fast they want, or they can get away with, regardless of others. I'd love a GSXR or something similar, but I know that I'd be better off just handing in my license up front, or just stripping it down into a non-street-legal track bike. At least I can push the LT pretty hard, but still stay within the bounds of sanity.

I don't like getting tickets any more than anyone else, but I also realize that LEOs are doing a difficult job, for relatively low pay and even less respect. And I can't say I've ever been pulled over when I didn't deserve it, and I've been let go a few times when they didn't have to.

I still like to play, but now I try to do it a bit more carefully, when I feel the circumstances are safe enough to push things a bit. And if a LEO happens to disagree with me, than I just own up and move on. You'd be surprised what a little politeness and respect can do for you in such a situation.

Some people will figure this out eventually, and some never will. But in the end you really have to be more concerned with yourself and your own actions. That's really the best any of us can do.

[petepeterson]

No problem!! Half my family was LEO in California.. I did my career in the Corps so no bad mouthing from me,,and your welcome kick your shoes off and stay awhile:)...........regards Pete

[messenger13]

You mean to tell me...all I have to do is diss "the man" a few times, and you'll pack your bags?! ;) :D

But seriously folks...sorry to hear about your bad experience over there.

[motorman587]

I guess I should'nt let the "computer geeks" get to me. Even after posting what I felt I got "Who me?" kind've reaction. I think and feel, good not to go back. They need to clean their act. I know people are just cleaning the air and tickets are one thing, however people must realize that all walks of life ride, so if you say something negative about somebody's occupation, it is going hurt somebody, somewhere. Even if it is a LEO. Yes, we have feelings too. :)

[jhowdy]

I hope you don't lose any sleep over it. Especially the way your particular department handles the issue of speed related enforcement, they give out the enforcement locations daily (or did when I worked up there). If you're speeding, you're speeding. If the officer gives you a break, great. If not maybe s/he slowed you down enough that you don't plow into the drivers door of that crown vic that would have pulled out in front of you a mile down the road. Folks who want to go fast, just need to consider the ticket (if they receive one) the price of admission.

Besides, those tickets help fund for our CJSTC trust fund money! :)

[LTsaddledance]

Sorry to hear your leaving the Sporttouring forum Motorman, though I can understand your frustration. I'm on that list too so I know what's prompted the decision. Remember that a lot of us (even some who've had their little run in's with the law) gotta lot of respect for what you do each day. My respect is especially given to motor officers cause they share the same risks I do as a bike rider. Glad your still hangin over here man.

[amarider]

John,

I'm over on the RT site ( www.bmwsporttouring.com (http://www.bmwsporttouring.com) ) almost everyday. I have not noticed the attitude that your referring to. I must admit that I don't pay much attention any threads that go off the deep end on any board. Just kind of tune them out. Mostly I stay on the Oilhead forum for the technical information.
Maybe that being on the on line boards for such a long time I tune out few that start BS just for the attention. Most of these people would never talk this way in person and should be taken with a gain of salt.
I have only met a few of the locals here that are on that board, they seem to be really good people. I wouldn't let the few dictate where you participate.

[Chick]

The attitude about riding and lack of respect for my "profession" LEOing was enough for me to call it quits.

John:

I spent five years as a reserve with the local Sheriff's Department. What an eye opener as to the disrespect/abuse that LEOs get on a day-to-day basis!

Your's is a dangerous and thankless job, and I for one thank God that there are individuals like yourself who are willing to put their life on the line for all of us.

God bless you and may this forum never be guilty of what you have found on other forums!

[Jerrod Maguire]

The attitude about riding and lack of respect for my "profession" LEOing was enough for me to call it quits.

I have not seen it here too much and I feel that this being a more mature riding group members respect each others thoughts and opinions which I truly enjoy. So you will see me posting here more. Thank you for being such an understanding board.

First, gotta love the motorcycle police-person, very honorable profession (it's soiled-on on occasion by the participants and the observers, but all occupations are from time to time). Second, much better rider after watching your latest video and I had been riding for years, much like you said, "doing the same things wrong for the last twenty years" isn't good practice. Third, law enforcement is one of those things that works so well it's simply taken for granted; anyone who disagrees with how well it works... should imagine having it taken away for the next month and see what happens when your neighbors think there's no one watching and there's no consequences for their actions. Like a child with no parents.

You are welcome here... any and all the time!

[meese]

Don't let it get you down, John. You guys do provide a valuable service.

Some good friends of mine were in a bad accident New Year's Eve. An oncoming van was speeding, lost control, and slid across the median wherein they hit it broadside. Their 60 mph plus the van's estimated 40 mph caused a lot of damage. At least one person in the van died, my friends all went to the hospital with broken bones (including their young son), and the father had surgery. Fortunately they were all wearing seat belts, and the son was in a proper baby seat, or things could easily have been much worse for them.

I know that isn't necessarily cheerful but this particular road used to have bad accidents like this regularly. A combination of widening and straightening the road, plus obvious increased LEO enforcement means that these are now pretty rare.

You may not always see an immediate benefit, but what you do does make a difference. And many of us appreciate it (even if we do get caught once in a while).

[Malki]

Having been in the job for over 30 years, I can see where your coming from, best advice, just ignore them, they will need you before you need them no doubt. :thumb:

[rixchard]

Are you saying that if there were no police you would not hesitate to help yourself to your neighbors lawn mower?

[messenger13]

If LEOs did NOT exist...the only thing I would do differently is ride/drive faster. Period. And...only on the freeways. I rarely even catch myself speeding in the city or burbs. Simply no need for it.

But as for stealing . . . On a daily basis, I could steal from my customers. I have access to so much office equipment, PCs, office supplies, etc., etc...it's not even funny. Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned but, I just happen to live under the philosophy that "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is YOURS". No police intervention needed.

Then again...I even claim cash jobs on my taxes. Guess I'm just stupid...

[rixchard]

My point exactly. The vast majority of people are just the same

[Lzyellodog]

Well, I think we all have seen some sort of abuse on forums before and it will probably continue. I used to frequent a 4runner forum but people were just out of hand for no reason. Posting even a simple question one would get flamed for no reason.

AS for the LEO work...I have total respect and admiration for what you/they do. And when i get pulled over and I do occasionally I never give them attitude and always give them the respect they deserve even if I know I am right. Not that happens often. One can always fight it in court.

As a matter of fact I have not been given a ticket in over 10 years, however I have been pulled over at least once a year for doing something stupid. They have always said please slow down and drive more carefully. I will now knock on wood. And the last time I got pulled over I was absolutely completely in the wrong and I have no idea why he did not give me a ticket. And it would have been a big one. Speeding, passing on the right and tail gating. I was in my 4runner not on the bike. This was about two years ago. Funny part was I saw him get on the road behind me and I just drove like an idiot anyway. He walked up to the window and asked if I knew why he pulled me over and I said where should I start? So he starts to list the infractions and then asked me why and i had no answer. I just said I plead insanity with a smile on my face and he chucked and said next time he pulls me over he will give me a ticket. Needless to say I have never done that again.

So Motorman, I know everyone has said this but you are welcome here. Keep safe.

[tlash]

John,
I haven’t posted over there in a year for exactly the same reasons you described in your original post. Of course nobody likes to be cited, and people here bitch too. But the attitude on this board, over all, is more reasoned and mature.

[messenger13]

... But the attitude on this board, over all, is more reasoned and mature.I have obviously been 'slacking on the job'. For this, I am deeply ashamed. :o

[zippy_gg]

I have obviously been 'slacking on the job'. For this, I am deeply ashamed. :o
The day is still young Joe...! :D :p

[motorman587]

John,
I haven’t posted over there in a year for exactly the same reasons you described in your original post. Of course nobody likes to be cited, and people here bitch too. But the attitude on this board, over all, is more reasoned and mature.

Tom,
You said it the best and that is why I am here. There has been tickets threads here too, but the attitude is totally different.

What started it all was a thread about this guys family getting 5 tickets. He got three, daughter one and wife one. The wife was the smartest plead not contest. I think is daughters was reduce and I felt they attempted to blame the LEO for writing the ticket the first place, claiming the lines were no visible etc......... Somebody saw something as the LEO did write the ticket. His tickets were two for speeding and one for running a red light. His were I believe were all drop for one reason or another. He even quote the judge about he teach officers there jobs.

I made a comment to the affect that three tickets in a year is reckless. I think the speeds were over 15mph the posted.

And then the attitude just came.

This has not been the first on that board and by Tom's reply I have not been the first to leave for that reason.

Why the attitude?

[Daman858]

We have had 6 murders here in Baltimore since 1/1/06 so the LEOs got more better things to do with their time that give tickets. My brothers and sisters in blue that I worked with for so long and love so dearly are up to their ears in alligators....there are an estimated 50,000-yes, fifty thousand-drug addicts in Baltimore...you can look it up!

[tmgs]

I use to hang there a lot. Had some good times and met some good friends, but I think the "Bouncers" have lost it. Threads just keep going and going and the attacks on certain professions, I drew the the line. I will not go back.

The attitude about riding and lack of respect for my "profession" LEOing was enough for me to call it quits.

I do not understand the mentally over there but between the two forums I believe and feel that is forum has the riders I would go on a ride with or have.

I have not seen it here to much and I feel that this being a more mature riding group members respect each others thoughts and opinion which I truly enjoy. So you will see me posting here more. Thank you for being such an understand board.


I'm sending you a PM

Tom

[messenger13]

[snip]

I made a comment to the affect that three tickets in a year is reckless. I think the speeds were over 15mph the posted.

[snip]

Why the attitude?John,

Perhaps this may shine some light on the subject. After a long discussion about this very topic with a group of my friends and family, two of them being LEOs...we came to this conclusion. LEOs (local and state) should be divided into two groups. 1) - Law Enforcement Officers. and 2) - TICKET WRITERS. Whether you agree or not, the majority of traffic tickets, more specifically SPEEDING tickets, are just a means of revenue. Period. We all know that speed traps do exist, and we all know that traffic cops have quotas. Much like any other sales force. These factors all feed into the lack of respect that Ticket Writers have earned. Unfortunately, us civilians can't tell the difference between a real LEO and a TW because you all wear the same uniform.

A second factor that may have attributed to the attitude that you have recently experienced is this. Most of us civilians leave under a philosophy that is: "What we do for a living is NOT who we are." Many LEOs (and fire fighters) do not live by this. And quite frankly, when in a public forum, I really don't care if you're a cop, a fire fighter, a doctor, a lawyer, a pilot, a mechanic, a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker.

[tmgs]

Besides, those tickets help fund for our CJSTC trust fund money! :)


Mayo Fl, well if ya ever get a guy riding a 66 FL with panheads on it named Roger, tell him the ticket is from Tom <grin> he's a old friend of mine, he moved up there after his brother was killed, we used to ride up there for campouts once a year! that whole Area is great!, it was the first ime my kidsw had blueberrypancakes picked right out of the field and cooked in a campsite, brings back fine memories!

I should make a pit stop there and say hello myself one day

Tom

[motorman587]

John,

Perhaps this may shine some light on the subject. After a long discussion about this very topic with a group of my friends and family, two of them being LEOs...we came to this conclusion. LEOs (local and state) should be divided into two groups. 1) - Law Enforcement Officers. and 2) - TICKET WRITERS. Whether you agree or not, the majority of traffic tickets, more specifically SPEEDING tickets, are just a means of revenue. Period. We all know that speed traps do exist, and we all know that traffic cops have quotas. Much like any other sales force. These factors all feed into the lack of respect that Ticket Writers have earned. Unfortunately, us civilians can't tell the difference between a real LEO and a TW because you all wear the same uniform.

A second factor that may have attributed to the attitude that you have recently experienced is this. Most of us civilians leave under a philosophy that is: "What we do for a living is NOT who we are." Many LEOs (and fire fighters) do not live by this. And quite frankly, when in a public forum, I really don't care if you're a cop, a fire fighter, a doctor, a lawyer, a pilot, a mechanic, a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker.

I will disagree with you that one and your fellow officer friends. I am a traffic cop. Have been for the last 12 years. Been a cop for 18 years. I DO NOT HAVE A QUOTA, we are told to hit hot areas. Areas that have high crime for that week or month in hoping to scare that bad guy away. Our city only gets $12 from the tickets we write and the rest goes to the county. We were told today in meeting, on ways to reduce the traffic fatalities in our city. We had the highest in 2005. There was no pattern, no race, some speeding, some alcohol related, some no seatbelts, etc.................in traffic deaths. We had 28 deaths in the city vs. 8 murders.

I understand that you do not care what profession you on a public forum, however if I thought I could do your job better or if I believed that I was ripped off by your profession, which you have been trained on yearly, what other job is there where you train, constantly. I had training today on pursuits and Amber alert. I had driver training a couple of months ago, I must go qualify with my weapons soon. So when folks. like in the SportTouring quit attacking my profession, I will stand up and I will always defend my profession. Do you realize that I would take bullet for you? I would come to your house investagate whatever crime and if there was someone trying to kill you, I would stand between you and the bullet. Maybe not like that but you understand whay I mean.
John

[motorman587]

Messenger13 what kind of work do you do. You did not feel in your Bio? Let me see if I could pick on a nerve.

[bob_menton]

Besides Joe's comments about LEOs vs. Ticket Writers (which I fully agree with), there's "attitude" toward LEOs because LEOs have "attitude" toward us "civilians" (for those not aware of it, "civilian" is LEO-talk for all non-LEOs). You expect to be treated differently from the rest of us - laws are written for "civilians", not for LEOs. Y'all believe that you can, and should, "get away" with things that would get "civilians" a ticket (or an arrest). We saw this not long ago on this list - a LEO was ticketed for speeding on the Blue Ridge Pkwy (patrolled by Federal police, who will ticket anybody for speeding, LEO or not - no "brotherhood" there). He asked "What's up with that?" He clearly expected to get away without a speeding ticket because he is an LEO - most posters on this board objected to his attitude, and he never posted on the issue again.

My "attitude" toward LEOs comes from living with my Dad, who was a NYC cop for 23 years. I saw how he and his fellow officers treated "civilians" - I saw what he expected to get away with, parking his car illegally and leaving his Patrolman's Benevolent Assn. card on the dashboard of his car. He also felt, as I believe most LEOs do, that all "civilians" are crooks - and if you ain't breaking the law right now, you probably will be in a short while. This last statement is a **little** exaggerated, but understandable when you consider that almost every "civilian" a LEO is dealing with is a lawbreaker. Kinda makes you feel like ALL "civilians" are lawbreakers, no?

"Attitude" toward LEOs comes from getting "attitude" from LEOs. As long as you and your brother LEOs expect to live by a different set of laws and rules than the rest of us "civilians", you will get "attitude" from some of us - including from those of us who appreciate LEOs when they go after the murderers and the robbers. As ye sow, so shall ye reap - please don't be surprised by it, John.

- Bob

[messenger13]

Messenger13 what kind of work do you do. You did not feel in your Bio? Let me see if I could pick on a nerve.In one statement you have proved my (our) point. I have posted in these two forums 5,725 times, and you still don't know what I do for a living. Simply because, what I do for a living is NOT who I am. One look at your nickname and we know what you do. And we know who you are. Coincidentally, you also involve yourself in threads (for the most part) where you interject statements of expertise based on being a LEO. INSTEAD of being a motorcyclist first.

Just for the record, I have the utmost respect for LEOs. Whether they are taking a bullet for me...or writing me a ticket. I may not agree with every ticket I've ever received...but I do know that I have gotten away with thousands of them. I like speed. Guilty as charged. I'm just trying to give you a glimpse of "the other side" of the badge.

[tlash]

http://www.napanet.net/~tlash/horse.gif

[hoog62]

Well, if you're getting paid by the post, you're probably making a pretty good living. That would also explain a few things.











:D

[motorman587]

Besides Joe's comments about LEOs vs. Ticket Writers (which I fully agree with), there's "attitude" toward LEOs because LEOs have "attitude" toward us "civilians" (for those not aware of it, "civilian" is LEO-talk for all non-LEOs). You expect to be treated differently from the rest of us - laws are written for "civilians", not for LEOs. Y'all believe that you can, and should, "get away" with things that would get "civilians" a ticket (or an arrest). We saw this not long ago on this list - a LEO was ticketed for speeding on the Blue Ridge Pkwy (patrolled by Federal police, who will ticket anybody for speeding, LEO or not - no "brotherhood" there). He asked "What's up with that?" He clearly expected to get away without a speeding ticket because he is an LEO - most posters on this board objected to his attitude, and he never posted on the issue again.

My "attitude" toward LEOs comes from living with my Dad, who was a NYC cop for 23 years. I saw how he and his fellow officers treated "civilians" - I saw what he expected to get away with, parking his car illegally and leaving his Patrolman's Benevolent Assn. card on the dashboard of his car. He also felt, as I believe most LEOs do, that all "civilians" are crooks - and if you ain't breaking the law right now, you probably will be in a short while. This last statement is a **little** exaggerated, but understandable when you consider that almost every "civilian" a LEO is dealing with is a lawbreaker. Kinda makes you feel like ALL "civilians" are lawbreakers, no?

"Attitude" toward LEOs comes from getting "attitude" from LEOs. As long as you and your brother LEOs expect to live by a different set of laws and rules than the rest of us "civilians", you will get "attitude" from some of us - including from those of us who appreciate LEOs when they go after the murderers and the robbers. As ye sow, so shall ye reap - please don't be surprised by it, John.

- Bob

Bob,
You should move to a town where you are treated with respect. With my department you have an IA that you can go complain if you feel you have been treated wrong. I can tell you that all my traffic stops are recorded. Once someone complains and find that the conversation was recorded they drop the complaint. If you listen to the stop you always here the violator being rude and the officer being very professional. I think that LEO has the reputation because of BS like here and in the media. Sure there are departments that have done some very bad stuff and have been charge or fired for it. Do not think that all LEO are bad or have attiude. If want to see how I operator or any other of my partners come ride. My point is do not label all LEO's because what happened to you. And no I do not label all as a law breaker.

This will be my last post for this topic. Somebody was beating a dead horse.

We are not all bad as I do not think everyone is bad.

[motorman587]

Our patrol cars get tickets here. So do not compare NYPD Vs. TPD. I also heard awhile back that NYPD can drink a beer at lunch. Our policy is if you are consuming alcohol it has to been done 8 hours before a shift. I can not smoke or chew tobacco, I can agrue with my neighbors, I must be a cop 24 hours and not get paid. Ya I know I picked this job, but if I had known what I know now, nope.

[LarryR]

As a retired school superintendent, I have great empathy for John Pretti's plight: Serving an unappreciative public.

During my tenure as school superintendent, I was sued by the ACLU over a simple dress code. I was interviewed by 37 newspapers and a huge number of TV stations across the country over a minor thing.

I was sitting on the witness stand and the judge asked me why I thought the code was not unfair. I told him it was the same principle as the 55 mile speed limit law because that law was because of people like my wife (now she wants an "S" bike because it has "kick"). But, in a large group setting (school) and in a large society, rules must be made to protect the general populace all because of the transgressions of a few. That is just the way things play out.

So, the bottom line is that I know the speed limits and if I get caught speeding it is my fault. The LEO is just doing his/her job and it is so unfair for them to take the verbal abuse to which they are subjected.

I may get a ticket today, but you will never here me whine or blame someone else. Without rules we have chaos. Those rules are not always fair but we must know if we choose to break them and get caught there is a penalty and it is our fault---not the LEO.

John has one tough job and all of us should appreciate what he (and other LEO's) must endure each day.

We must learn to place the blame squarely upon ourselves if we get a ticket.

Please understand this post is not intended to offend anyone. I just grow weary of cavalier attitudes toward police officers. We would be screwed without them.

[NCoe]

Well said. I have been stopped on a few occasions but never without just cause. I have nothing but the utmost respect for LEOs.

[meese]

At the risk of raising this particular horse to the top of the pile again, I have to say that while some LEOs have attitude, the vast majority don't, at least in my experience. I've been pulled more times than I care to admit, and the number of LEOs that I thought were being unfair, condescending, or just plain rude is pretty small. I'm never happy about sitting at the side of the road having a talk with a uniform, but I also know to accept responsibility for my actions. Some of the stories I hear or have witnessed about how civilians treat LEOs are just plain astonishing.

There is a small beach town near where I grew up that you just knew if you got pulled over you were in for a real treat; mirrored sunglasses, attitude, and all. I also realized that these cops had to deal with spoiled little rich kids driving daddy's Porsche down Pacific Coast Highway at racetrack speeds, and threatening to have the cop's job if he wrote them up. That kind of feedback day in and day out has to affect anyone, no matter their profession.

And I'd say that if you take on a job where you are likely to be killed at any time, then you pretty much have to become that job, if only to protect yourself. I sure wouldn't want to do it, so the least I can do is respect those who have chosen to do it. I may be unhappy about being pulled over, and the chance of raising my insurance or worse losing my license, but I'll never take that out on the LEO. That's just dumb, whether in person or in cyberspace.

[pkpr1998]

Like Nathan, every time I have been stopped it was because I had the tack in high gear! LOL

HAve been given more verbal warnings than performance awards. Nice guys.