Do 'Cagers' Really See Us Or Not?

[jpalamaro]

Without commentary on the helmet, let me offer opinion as to whether NON-cycle vehicles see motorcycles.

I have a Seer helmet that looks exactly like a police helmet (they furnish many of the LEO helmets). I have an HD (chrome) bar/shield/wings affixed on the helmet where normally the LEO would have their approrpriate insignia. This insignia came off of my old HD helmet that fell apart, and looks a lot like a LEO badge/insignia.

I wear a pair of Ray-Ban aviator style sunglasses and a dark blue Olympia sport riding jacket.

The LT has Motolights and is Ocean Blue.

I rarely ride with this helmet but if it's especially hot I will wear it in lieu of the Nolan full-face.

Cars seeing me on the LT, altho' it looks nothing like the HD White Road Kings will slow down dramatically if they see me in the rear-view/side mirrors; they rarely pull out in front of me from a cross street and will even wait what I would call embarrassingly long distances waiting for me to pass.

Unscientific conclusion. I thinks it's the helmet! Any opinions?

[JetDoc]

Unscientific conclusion. I thinks it's the helmet! Any opinions?

You might see if Ron Miller has any more of his "POLITE" stickers to go with that helmet...I noticed some interesting effects when I had them on my black LT last summer. (I ride with a silver helmet and a yellow/black TourMaster jacket)

Unfortunately, most cagers only see what they want to see. I have seen several accidents where real motor officers were hit or run off the road by cagers who "Just didn't see him."

[mwnahas]

You might see if Ron Miller has any more of his "POLITE" stickers to go with that helmet...I noticed some interesting effects when I had them on my black LT last summer. (I ride with a silver helmet and a yellow/black TourMaster jacket)

Unfortunately, most cagers only see what they want to see. I have seen several accidents where real motor officers were hit or run off the road by cagers who "Just didn't see him."

I have a black LT, where on the bike did you put those stickers? The ones I saw had black letters.

[mikerd400]

If I could take you guys on a ride along, on patrol, with me, you would see how many people are just plai scary. Mostly cagers, but there are a few two-wheelers (almost always sportbikes).

Here is what I see: I generally have certain areas I like to shoot radar. It never fails, I always get someone at a high speed, 80 mph plus, on a two lane highway. Their response, "I see you sitting there everyday." During the rain, I lose count on how many solo vehicle collisions I respond to. The cagers normally run off of the road. More than half will say there were doing the speed limit and are safe drivers. I just think, you dumbass, your car is 100 feet down an embankment, you are not a safe driver. This past rain storm, where it flooded Napa, I watched numerous cars drive into the flood and stall out.

There are so many other stories. It just scares me that these people are driving around and have no clue. Very dangerous whe driving a very heavy vehicle.

[Big_E]

I have also failed to see motorcycles when in my car. Your best defense is to assume you are invisible.

[LTsaddledance]

Without commentary on the helmet, let me offer opinion as to whether NON-cycle vehicles see motorcycles.

I have a Seer helmet that looks exactly like a police helmet (they furnish many of the LEO helmets). I have an HD (chrome) bar/shield/wings affixed on the helmet where normally the LEO would have their approrpriate insignia. This insignia came off of my old HD helmet that fell apart, and looks a lot like a LEO badge/insignia.

Cars seeing me on the LT, altho' it looks nothing like the HD White Road Kings will slow down dramatically if they see me in the rear-view/side mirrors; they rarely pull out in front of me from a cross street and will even wait what I would call embarrassingly long distances waiting for me to pass.

Unscientific conclusion. I thinks it's the helmet! Any opinions?

I read once where a guy tried an experiment on the "see me" issue.
He dressed in dark clothing with a black helmet and black bike.
Then tried bright clothing, white helmet and light colored bike.
Then he dressed in faux cop type clothing (no insignia mind you).
His conclusions? car drivers seemed to react to his presence in about the same percentages with the dark rig and the light one. But he got significantly more driver response from the "cop rig". I know that people still pull out in front of LEO's on bikes. Motorman can probably tell stories, but I do believe that anything that looks like a police bike makes most drivers hesitate just a second at least to be sure.

Funny thing though, I have more people move out of the way of my LT than anything else in the fleet including my Road King and RT- both former police bikes!

[KBandit]

If I could take you guys on a ride along, on patrol, with me, you would see how many people are just plai scary. Mostly cagers, but there are a few two-wheelers (almost always sportbikes).

many years ago, while working in the oilfield, i hitch-hiked from mobile, alabama, to morgan city, louisiana. i learned during that trip that the highways and byways are FULL of absolute, bona-fide lunatics. i'm talking about quaalude-popping, whisky-guzzling, heavily armed, insane maniacs out looking for an excuse. i don't think this has changed a bit in the 20 years that have passed since then.

i chuckle to myself when i hear stories about macho bikers confronting car drivers who endanger them. if they had seen what i have seen they would think twice about confronting anyone on the road. sooner or later you are gonna run into a charles manson.

and to get back to the thread topic ... i always assume that:

1) i am invisible
2) cars are out to get me
3) i need an escape plan

[Zotter]

The science is called "Perception". Tied in fairly tightly with psychology with some sociology tossed in for measure. Bit of neurology too.

Basicly people recognise what they're familiar with. They more easily recognise what they're more familiar with.

Most folks couldn't tell a sport bike from a trials bike - they're not familiar with them. So, when they see this 'shape' on the road (wether it's lit up, bright or dark) and they're distracted - as most drivers are these days - the recognition circuits don't fire. They don't 'See' a motorcycle - just a 'something' that isn't percieved as a vehicle. They may well not even see it as an obstical, threat or even clue in that it's moving (or not!).

Adding identifiable emblams, colors or shapes to twig them into 'Cop' recognition assists their perception - you've given them something they're familiar with and recognise.

Again - like in an earlier rear lighting thread - there almost needs to be some kind of universal "I'm a Motorcycle" emblam, color, shape or something - what, I don't know. Maybe like the red 'L' learning driver stickers the Brits use. Maybe a colored light or light pattern. Something that when someone who isn't familar with motorcycles and isn't fully alert, when they see it, something in their brain fires off and says - Oh, that's a motrocycle. Then all the rest of their driver training will have a chance to go active. (yea, the US - I know. I'm assuming they've had *any* training)

[Lzyellodog]

I had to go to my home office in Burlington, MAss from Middletown, Ct one day. The trip was supposed to be a quick meeting and away I was supposed to be headed home. However, the meeting lasted 4 hours and by the time I was ready to leave it was dark and raining. Well, it was raining all day but that is beside the point. I decided to stay at buddies house in Waltham but I had to buy some clothes first. I stopped at the local Mens Warehouse and dismount. I notice all the employees are staring and talking as I dismount. I slowly put my helmet in the trunk unzip my Hi VIZ yellow Stich Jacket and head into the Store. One of the girls says "I have 7 days to get my sticker!" I look at her a little confused and she says you're a cop right? Need I say more? One other thing I noticed on my way home the following day was that People tend to yeld to me on the hi-way. One more thing I observed that day was people talking on their cell phones seemed to drop them as they caught a look at me while I approached and Passed them.

Anyway believe I have had my share of people that pull out in front of me and all the rest of the crazy shit people do. And I will be honest I was pulling out of a gas station in my 4runner and did not see a guy riding an old R bike.

Just my two cents on a snowing New England Day.

Jim

[pjessen]

Just to reinforce the "ride like you are invisible" slogan, I believe that a majority of those that say, after an accident,"I didn't see him", are telling the truth. I believe that they didn't see the motorbike, nor would they have seen an 18 wheeler! They flat ass don't look. If they look, they do not comprehend...their mind is somewhere else. They are very dangerous to all other vehicles. There are lots of them, per my observation.

Oh, and even though I rode touring bicycles thousands of miles for 20 years, and survived, plus all the miles on motorbikes; when I get in a cage I am capable of the same brain dead driving. Scary! What is it they say? "Ride like you're invisible?" Sounds good to me.

[Daman858]

In the summer, I ride 26 miles on an interstate to work early in the AM when it is still dark. Cars would pass me, cut me off etc., until I started to wear my old "raid jacket" with florescent POLICE on the back. For some reason, everyone slowed down and were so polite.

[meese]

I think that most cagers don't perceive us as a threat. Even if they do see a bike, we're usually smaller and so don't rate as much attention.

One of they reasons looking like a LEO may help is that LEOs are a threat. They have the power to ticket you which may lead to a fine or possibly even loss of your driving privilege. Add a guilty conscience from someone who is driving erratically or talking on a phone, and the threat multiplies.

I've had SUVs look right at me, I can see them decide that I'm too small, and then they come right into my lane anyway. That even happens in my wife's 2-seater sports car, and it's not always a man doing it. There's not much you can do except get out of the way. Or maybe just get ahead of the offending SUV with another car between you, then happen to slow down just a bit too much. Not that I'd recommend that; it's far better to just get to a safe place away from the lunatics, if you can find one.

[jpalamaro]

Interesting Ken, as I have had similar experiences confirming the threat no threat scenario. Once the driver recognizes that I am not a LEO they once again return to their rude, if not life-threatening driving habits. Hmm...perhaps this will help!

[meese]

Hopefully, by the time they figure it out, you're well past them and out of range. I have noticed the HID gets a bit more attention. Plus most of the CHiPs around here are now riding Beemers, so just being on a BMW gets cagers to look twice. I have wanted to get a black LT, and paint the upper half white . . .

[RonKMiller]

Hopefully, by the time they figure it out, you're well past them and out of range. I have noticed the HID gets a bit more attention. Plus most of the CHiPs around here are now riding Beemers, so just being on a BMW gets cagers to look twice. I have wanted to get a black LT, and paint the upper half white . . .

Here's my fav, and I've already done the hard work:

Jest git yourself some white printable bumper sticker blanks at Office Depot, a pair of scissors and have fun.... I highly recommend a flashing front high beam as well.

High wattage blue led "tower" lights in the front turn signals (that look clear when you are parked, Amen) with clear lenses while running with the emergency flashers on is optional along with a good attorney and $500.00 - wait - better make that $5,000.00 - in bail money. ;)

[motorman587]

John,
It sucks, people go the speed limit and get out of your way. Wait till you get your GT, which I see in the picture on the left. :)

[meese]

I've also had people suddenly slow way down and stare in their mirrors while not getting out of the way. You just never know.

As for the POLITE stickers, I don't think people in L.A. have the right sense of humor for such things. I doubt the local LEOs do either.