How bad/good is the new 2-wheel onslaught in your town??

[shadowofshoe]

Don't know if it's good or bad(but bad seems more likely), but in Central Ohio the amount of new scooters and motorcycles is staggering!!!!!
The problem is the majority of guys and gals on scooters (although a few are AGATT or wear construction vests) treat their extremely invisible Vespas ae if they are in their SUV (now parked in the driveway). I mean no double checks for lane changing or at intersections and bevy of other behaviors that freak me out. I live/work in a seriously liberal area and they are taking to 2-wheels like you cannot believe!!!!!!!!
the new motorcycle riders evident and similarly lacking in awareness and skills......Is it just me or is this county wide-I really worry when I see them "ride".

Mike
Not to mention the amount of no helmets & shorts.

[azpilot06]

Everybody was a beginning motorcyclist at one point or another. Not everybody had good guidance at the outset, and many of us did stupid things in our youth or inexperience.

I'm certainly concerned for these folks, but I'm not mad at them for taking to 2 wheels. It will, though, be interesting to see how many are still on 2 wheels 3 or 6 months from now.

[RonKMiller]

My best guess is we WILL be seeing many of them on 2 wheels in a short time. :(

[shadowofshoe]

Everybody was a beginning motorcyclist at one point or another. Not everybody had good guidance at the outset, and many of us did stupid things in our youth or inexperience.

I'm certainly concerned for these folks, but I'm not mad at them for taking to 2 wheels. It will, though, be interesting to see how many are still on 2 wheels 3 or 6 months from now.

Not mad I thought- CONCERNED. And these are not teenagers they are 20-ish ..30-ish and beyond.....

Mike

[Florian]

My next door neighbor just bought his first bike....a Honda VTX 1800. He is 63. He never has taken an MSF course, never does the ATGATT and it worries me. Im sure hell be a statistic soon....I cannot stress to him enough to take the course and wear the gear...I even offered to pay his MSF course.


F

[quickbeemer]

There is one good thing that could happen out of this and that is, by there being more two wheelers on the street, it may raise the awareness for all of us to be seen. :dance:

[hschisler]

Central Ohio had this issue brought very close to home with the recent death of OSU President Gordon Gee's son-in-law. Dr. Gee's daughter and her husband were in a scooter accident (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/07/25/Moore.ART_ART_07-25-08_B1_U9ARDHF.html) in Philadelphia. They are/were both MDs and certainly aware of the injuries sustainable in a bike v. SUV collision. The stories I've read don't indicate if helmets were in use, but when a scooter and an SUV collide, scooter loses.

Let's hope all these new riders take advantage of safety training and ATGATT. We can help, by being good examples.

[Morley]

Had a guy on a scooter pull ot from a gas station a minute before me..he had a half helmet, T-shirt, shorts, sneakers....and when I passed him he had his cell phone pressed to his ear, yacking away. All I could think was "Road Kill".

[katnapinn]

Coming home from work the other day on a VERY congested 6 lane highway there was a scooter. Traffic was flowing about 65 MPH. This numb nut in the middle lane wide open at 50 MPH blocking cars , waring slacks, dress shirt with tie and a bicycle helmet :eek: There has been a large increase in the number of scooters on the road here.

[gglove]

My best guess is we WILL be seeing many of them on 2 wheels in a short time. :(

Ron just think of the possibilities for you in the custom seat market :D

[dwsdad]

I'm really happy to see more folks riding, but my fear is some of them are getting in way over their head. And we will see more and more accidents, and you know what that leads to........increased insurance rates.

Now, as far as dumb butts, it's not just limited to scooter riders. I routinely see some idiot on a HD riding in rush hour traffic with his feet on top of the crash bars. There is no way he could get his foot down to hit the brake fast enough if he had to. The upside is that he wears a helmet. A half helmet, so at least half his head will be ok.

[XMagnaRider]

Coming home from work the other day on a VERY congested 6 lane highway there was a scooter. Traffic was flowing about 65 MPH. This numb nut in the middle lane wide open at 50 MPH blocking cars , waring slacks, dress shirt with tie and a bicycle helmet :eek: There has been a large increase in the number of scooters on the road here.
His clone is riding around here in Southern California. The only difference: plaid shirt, no tie. My wife frequently sees him in our area.

The one time that I saw him, I passed him on a major street with three lanes in each direction. He was in the left lane, oblivious to the long line of angry drivers who were whipping out on the right to pass him. I took the far right lane and kept a careful watch on everyone, of course. He pulled up next to me and shouted ecstatically, "Isn't the gas mileage great! What mileage do you get on yours?"

Fortunately for me, the light turned green and I pulled away briskly. In my mirror, I saw him scoot off slowly, trailing that long line of cars. I couldn't help but think that the money he saves in gas won't pay much toward his hospital bills.

The only question in my mind is whether it will be a bumper or a bullet. :eek:

[XMagnaRider]

P.S. A brand new shiny red scooter showed up in the parking garage at work yesterday. I didn't see the rider, who must work for another company in our building. Nobody at my work wanted to bet me that the owner is wearing ATGATT, other than the fashion helmet. :)

[Moot]

I am certainly one of the last to advocate legislation as a cure for much of anything--But there oughta be a law! A big part of the problem is that under 50cc scoots are not treated as motor vehicles. If they can park on the sidewalk, they can drive on the sidewalk. Right? If you can park and ride on the sidewalk and you don't need a driver's license, you must not have any other rules to follow either. Right? Saw two young girls (very cute so I was really watching) tank tops, shorts, flip flops, no helmets (remember, no helmet law in Colorado) sideswipe a parked car, recover (amazingly) zip up on the sidewalk, sideswipe a planter then wobble back down the handicap ramp into the street just in time to barely miss getting hit by a car. Laughing hilariously the entire time.

And then there are the bicycles. Of course the law already states that bicycles are to follow the same rules as automobiles but we have both bicycles and scooters regularly riding on the sidewalk, tearing around corners to meet you head on as you walk down the sidewalk minding your own business. At least the scooters make a bit of noise to warn you. I was hit from behind by a bicycle messenger on the sidewalk, buckled my right knee and knocked me to the ground. I got a dislocated knee, skinned kneecap, torn pair of pants. Oh, and a middle finger and stream of invectives for having the temerity to be on the sidewalk in his way. So it ain't just scoots!

As responsible (hopefully) riders on two wheels, where we need to be concerned is that the irresponsible behavior of others prompts legislative "cures" that sweep too broadly.

[RonKMiller]

Ron just think of the possibilities for you in the custom seat market :D

Hey, that's MY personal wheelchair in the picture! :eek:

I stopped by a medical supply house the other day and there must have been 12 different designs for wheelchair seat cushions ranging from $25.00 up to $900.00!

With the "porking up" of the baby boom generation there is going to be (and already is) huge demand for them. The ortho doc that lives across the street from me and specializes in knees and hips says business is "booming"!

The only problem is we're so busy - you can't reach us by telephone - to make you one. :p ;)

[gfspencer]

Scooters have been around for a while here. We call them "Liquor Cycles" or "Drunk Bikes". Since they require no license when an habitual drunk loses his license he resorts to a scooter to get around.

Have you gotten a wave from a scooter rider? :rolleyes:

[RonKMiller]

Scooters have been around for a while here. We call them "Liquor Cycles" or "Drunk Bikes". Since they require no license when an habitual drunk loses his license he resorts to a scooter to get around.

Have you gotten a wave from a scooter rider? :rolleyes:

Wow, that's amazing - never thought of that. So now we have drunks riding scooters!! OMG. :eek:

I'm getting a Fez so I can ride in the next Shriner's Parade. Everybody is already pointing and laughing at me - so what the hell! :D

[Bmyrrh]

I'm seeing a rash of pink Vespa's ridden by women wearing pink helmets.

(Their corollary is the young guys riding with a helmet and leather jacket color coordinated to their bike, with shorts and flip flops!)

[gglove]

Hey, that's MY personal wheelchair in the picture! :eek:

I stopped by a medical supply house the other day and there must have been 12 different designs for wheelchair seat cushions ranging from $25.00 up to $900.00!

With the "porking up" of the baby boom generation there is going to be (and already is) huge demand for them. The ortho doc that lives across the street from me and specializes in knees and hips says business is "booming"!

The only problem is we're so busy - you can't reach us by telephone - to make you one. :p ;)

Tooshay :D

Living across for an ortho doc times must be good :)

[motorhead]

I am NOT doing to get into bashing the Who's riding what, but agree that there are LOTS of new riders !!

My #1 gripe ..... Shorts, Flip flops, T-shirts and Skid lid helmets.

This folks are just CLUE LESS !!

[hallzee]

I learned to ride on a 750cc BMW back in the 70's, with my Dad as my instructor. He had a simple two-part analogy for scooters, supplied as a reason as to why I was not getting one:

1. Just enough power to get you into trouble
2. Not enough power to get you out of trouble

My local dealer is selling scooters by the truckload. As I was there the other day, a "soccer mom" arrived in an SUV to check them out... I talked to her a bit, and she had never ridden anything before, but had to do something about "these gas prices".

I advised her to be careful (in my 30 second BRC), and ride like no one could see her.

[pjessen]

Along with scooters, there are a scad of old bikes out. My Kawi dealer says they've seen a number of them come in with totally rusted tanks and everything that goes with a neglected bike. I am frightened for these folks that take to the highways on underpowered junk.

BTW, my Kawi dealer, GForce, not only sells the bikes, and the gear, but has three BMC courses set up and they are busy all the time. There is hope if all dealers would operate this way.

[Tracus]

Okay, we acknowledge that there is evidence of an increase in the number of scooters around town. We acknowledge that a number of these riders have no knowledge of safe driving and operation of their vehicles, let alone their personal safety, i.e. ATGATT. )At this point allow me to don the pompous shirt and the pious tie.) They will continue to operate the way they have been unless one of two things happens: One-legislation gets passed and we all get slapped. Two-we talk to these errant riders and give them a few tips.

It's easy enough to sit at the keyboard and submit replies and know how everyone's going to react. But, have any of us taken the time to talk to one of these scooters and give them some advice? If so, what was the response/reaction.

This isn't a matter of Social Darwinism where we are waiting and watching for some twit to get smeared on the asphalt. What happens when it's one of us on our bikes that gets hit? What happens when it's one of us driving the car who smacks into a scooter?

I was the safety coordinator for the Harrisburg Bicycle club during the late '70s and '80s after the first major oil crisis. There was a huge increase in the number of bikes; just as we see an increase in scooters today. And the similarity continues: disregard to stop signs, riding on the sidewalks, going the wrong way, etc. They also had no sense of personal protection: no helmets, gloves, etc. But, we got the word out. We educated the errant riders and accidents/mishaps, etc. decreased.

So we have a new breed of riders who have watched too many re-runs of "Roman Holiday" and are thinking Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn. They're thinking it's a toy and not a vehicle and that kind of thinking is either going to hurt or kill them OR - hurt/kill one of us.

So, if we have the chance to educate some of these "riders," let's do so. Or, as Pogo was fond of saying, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

[jayjacobson]

....The only question in my mind is whether it will be a bumper or a bullet?
Well, by my calculations, it doesn't make much difference. Tits up is tits up!
....A big part of the problem is that under 50cc scoots are not treated as motor vehicles. If they can park on the sidewalk, they can drive on the sidewalk. Right? If you can park and ride on the sidewalk and you don't need a driver's license, you must not have any other rules to follow either. Right?
WRONG! In Kommyfornia, under 50cc scoots are treated as bicycles....AND must follow ALL "rules" of the road (w/ the exception of a few such as a helmet). They CANNOT ride/park on the sidewalk, either.
....We call them "Liquor Cycles" or "Drunk Bikes". Since they require no license when an habitual drunk loses his license he resorts to a scooter to get around....
Sooooooo riding drunk on a scooter/bicycle/horse IS NOT illegal in your neck on the woods? :confused:
....We acknowledge that a number of these riders have no knowledge of safe driving and operation of their vehicles, let alone their personal safety, i.e. ATGATT. )At this point allow me to don the pompous shirt and the pious tie.) They will continue to operate the way they have been unless one of two things happens: One-legislation gets passed and we all get slapped. Two-we talk to these errant riders and give them a few tips....
Sure, I'm all for leading the proverbial horse to water. BUT....

[Bmyrrh]

It's a noble idea to teach better safety practices to the scooter riders. I suspect, however, that it will work out about as well as trying to convince the boys down at the Harley shop that they should adopt the ATGATT practice. . .

If you can't convince a pot bellied 50 yr old accountant who fancies himself as looking "dangerous", and who rides a Harley because he believes that makes him stand out from the crowd, that "cool" has receded in his rear view mirror so far that it isn't even a shadow and thus that wearing a helmet will not interfere with his never terribly convincing outlaw image, you probably aren't going to get Suzy Bubble gum to wear a helmet that messes up her hair-do. . .

[Crystal]

Hi all, this is my first post here. I joined because I saw the thread and wanted to post a couple of notes from a scooterist perspective. I first learned the love of riding as a passenger on a friend's two BMWs for many years, so I hope that helps me qualify. Right now I ride a 150cc Vespa scooter as my transportation of choice, and I publish a number of scooter blogs and run a scooter-based business, scooterseatcovers.com. My first scooter was a 49cc Honda.

Scooter laws, including licensing and helmet regulations, vary from state to state. Most states now at least require a valid drivers license, and a good many states are now requiring a motorcycle endorsement even for 50cc scooters. In some areas, there is still a grey area where smaller scooters are considered a 'moped' by law, and over 50cc scooters are considered 'motorcycles' by law. My 150cc Vespa is considered (and registered as) a motorcycle here in Vermont, and it was also considered a motorcycle in Maryland where I first bought it. I am MSF trained and have my motorcycle endorsement. I was hit by a car head-on in my first year of riding, and appreciate the value of good armor. My BMW-riding friend taught me that years before, thankfully.

Of course I can't speak for everyone, but many that I know in the scooter community feel the same way many here do! We advocate training and safety. For example, even if a state doesn't require a helmet or a motorcycle endorsement, you'll be hard pressed to find an established scooter forum or list that doesn't advocate or encourage both. Unfortunately, even in areas where motorcycle endorsements and registering as a motorcycle is required, you'll see a LOT of dealers advertising scooters with lines like "No license needed!" "You don't even need insurance!" "As easy as riding a bike!" and so on. Of course a lot of customers will believe that, if that's what the expert/dealer says.

The same forums will also advocate riding and parking appropriately. My scooter can reach interstate speed limits, but it's not that comfortable to ride it at 65+ mph. It might take me longer to get somewhere going 50mph, but I get there safely and I have fun doing it. :-)

Scooters still have the stigma of being a toy to many who aren't riders, and even to many who own them. There are an increasing number of us who use them as our daily transportation of choice, either for fun, mpg, or both. Many of us use them for touring. Inevitably on forums, though, there will be riders who gleefully brag about how they get away with not having a license or plates or parking on the sidewalk and so on. Sadly those are the scooterists that people tend to notice more than those of us who are following the rules and driving safely.

I get a lot of the same questions from motorcyclists and non-motorcyclists. Usually the first question is how many miles per gallon do I get. The second is almost always, "Do you need a license for that thing?" From those looking to buy a 2-wheel ride without having to get an endorsement, I sometimes get looks of disappointment when I tell them that they do. I always suggest looking into the MSF course as an option to learn how to ride. Those who are already endorsed often seem surprised and then nod approvingly.

I also often get asked why I wear so much gear since it's "only" a scooter (I wear full gear & full-face helmet). I know motorcyclists that wear full gear on their motorcycles but t-shirt and shorts on a scooter, and I know a lot of scooterists that won't go anywhere without wearing full armor. Most seem to be somewhere in the middle, wearing a helmet, long pants, armored jacket, gloves and boots. It's scary to see a scooterist in shorts and flip flops, just as I find it scary to see riders racing by wearing t-shirts, shorts and sneakers on sports bikes, or the stereotypical Harley passenger wearing a tank top and heels.

I think there will always be the folks that think it's stupid to wear helmets, or goofy to wear armor on a scooter or other two-wheel vehicle. There will always be those riders who get off on beating the system by not getting an endorsement and getting away with it.

From my perspective, one of the best things we can all do in this 2-wheel onslaught is to lead by example, and offer tips and advice when asked, no matter what we choose to ride. If I'm the only scooter rider someone meets, I'd like them to remember that I was wearing safety gear and driving safely.

Thanks for letting me throw in my 2 cents,

Crystal Waters
scootpink.com, scooterseatcovers.com, lastmileride.com and a few others

[tmgs]

My best guess is we WILL be seeing many of them on 2 wheels in a short time. :(


only if they keep the front of that wheel chair up in the air will they be on two wheels
<big grin>

[tmgs]

Hi all, this is my first post here. I joined because I saw the thread
Crystal Waters
scootpink.com, scooterseatcovers.com, lastmileride.com and a few others

Hi Crystal, welcome to the fray, plan on moving into a full fledged touring bike?

my wife has been riding on and off for years, the last 7 or 8 pretty seriously she is now rideng a R1200GS (she learned how 1st on a '49 FL) my daughter had a mc license before she could get her regular Auto license here in Ga.

[Bmyrrh]

I certainly applaud your effort to encourage people to ride safely, and I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. The real issue, it seems to me, is that fuel prices are stimulating a marketing drive to sell more machines, and the lower the price and the more "friendly" the image assigned to the machine, the larger that market is and the more effective the overall sales scheme.. Inevitably that sweeps in people who don't adequately assess the risks of riding, leading to some fairly poor choices in terms of the machines they buy, the way they ride, and the safety equipment they use. Indeed the reason for that type of marketing IS to bring people in the door who might otherwise not consider a motorcycle or scooter.

That's not just a problem with scooters, btw.

[zippy_gg]

Have you gotten a wave from a scooter rider? :rolleyes:Yes I occasionally do. Riders that wave are always wearing full face helmets and jackets, no matter what the weather is. This reminds me of me when I was 14 and the law only allowed up to 50cc. It made me happy when people on motorcycles waved back at me. I wanted to be one of them... Today I am one of them!:)

[larrykay]

Hey Crystal
My first bike was a Vespa in 1958. Drove scooters for 5 years and then migrqated to bigger and bigger bikes.
Recently, I had the opportunity to ride my neices' nice new Vespa that goes 60 or 70 mph. My old 1958 did 40 on a windless day on the level.

I found a picture from my Vespa days taht I can send to you if you care. send a PM.

[Randy]

Hey, that's MY personal wheelchair in the picture! :eek:
I just have one question for you...

Where you learn to count to see only 2 wheels?

My best guess is we WILL be seeing many of them on 2 wheels in a short time. :(

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19016

:rotf:

[jayjacobson]

Hi all, this is my first post here. I joined because I saw the thread and wanted to post a couple of notes from a scooterist perspective....
Great first post, Cystal! Welcome to the looney bin.
....Where you learn to count to see only 2 wheels?
Now Randy, he's probably a victim of the public edumacation system. :D

[Colyn]

We see a similiar pattern here in South Africa and the numbers of the small bikes and scooters are jumping. We also see many of the old bikes from the middle to late seventies popping up on the roads.

Someone asked if I have ever spoken to the scooter riders ... well the answer is yes and the replies on my question about ATGATT gets either a shrug of the shoulders but what is interesting is that most of the kids I talk to tell me that their parents do not deem it worth the while to spend money on ATGATT.

Here are a few shots ...

http://www.tripwired.co.za/JCS_Bucket/TW_Shots/ShootFromSaddle/Stupid/800d_IMG_2672.jpg
This youngster told me that his kit was at home ... well I then asked if expected
to be at home when he falls.

http://www.tripwired.co.za/JCS_Bucket/TW_Shots/ShootFromSaddle/Stupid/800e_IMG_3592.jpg
This young girl told me her dad did not think it was needed to spend money on ATGATT.

http://www.tripwired.co.za/JCS_Bucket/TW_Shots/ShootFromSaddle/Stupid/800f_IMG_3754.jpg
This guy was to drunk to talk to.

http://www.tripwired.co.za/JCS_Bucket/TW_Shots/ShootFromSaddle/Stupid/800c_IMG_2438.jpg
This is the result of a wannabee Rossi that comes from Gauteng and thinks
that the Lowveld roads are all part of huge race track.

I am sure you guys have seen similar things all over the world. Yes it freaks me out to see these people take these risks but all I can really do is to lead by example and hope that someone notice.

If the current boom is going to follow the lines of the mid 70's boom then we will see thousands of new riders in the next year or so. More riders is more accidents but also more awareness.

[NOGILLS2]

I started riding motorcycles in 1967 or so, the eighth grade. I dont remember if we wore helmets or not. I know if we did that was all we wore. As the bikes grew in size our minds didn't. In 1979 I tried to put a Suzuki 750 in the back of a Rambler, without a ramp. I wish I still had that helmet, there were holes in it you could put your fingers through. I realized that it would have been my head if it wasn't on my head at the time. So wearing a helmet has never been a choice, I will always wear one! After taking BRC with MSF I learned about ATGATT, prior only racers wore that stuff. I am afraid that many of the new riders will learn the hardway, as most of us do, hopefully, they will survive their first education class, and make an A on their next test. Perhaps some will learn from their friends that have accidents before they do, and realize how important safety is!

Human nature, I am afraid is the same all over, and we all learn the hardway!

[Rockdoc]

We see a similiar pattern here in South Africa and the numbers of the small bikes and scooters are jumping.
The only part of SA I've visited is around Stellenbosch and Cape Town and there are some great roads to ride on a bike, though I've only done them in a car. I'd always want to wear ATGATT in SA from the general standard of driving and the poor state of a lot of the vehicles. I can't understand why people don't wear protective kit anywhere in the world but I suppose what I see as bad driving is what other people see as normal and assess the risks accordingly.

I was really lucky to have the friend who initiated me into bikes (on a 250cc Norton Jubilee and a 500cc Matchless G80S back in 1968) insisted I rode with a helmet, boots, gloves and waxed-cotton jacket but also gave me hell if I rode badly. As has been suggested earlier, mentoring would be the best plan for these newbies but I doubt if many would accept it from a stranger.

Keith

[Colyn]

The only part of SA I've visited is around Stellenbosch and Cape Town and there are some great roads to ride on a bike, though I've only done them in a car. I'd always want to wear ATGATT in SA from the general standard of driving and the poor state of a lot of the vehicles.
Keith

Well as a Brit you should know ... the average Boer is quite a tough creature ... Africa is not for sissies :rotf:

[rattler50]

The number of riders has shot up around here. Motorcycles and scooters used to be somewhat rare. Now they are everywhere. You see a lot of guys on Harleys wearing overalls and a T-shirt. We also have a lot of scooters around now. Some of them wear helmets but most wear shorts, flip flops and let their bald heads shine in the sun. That way you can show off your tan. We had one new rider (63 years old) who got his first Harley and rode it home with his wife following him. He hit a guardrail at an interchange and somehow got his leg over the rail and it was severed at the knee. The Harley guy at the shop makes fun of my Joe Rocket jacket but I'll take it over his doorag any day............. :dance: