Stirring the pot, again

[DaveDragon]

I am in the throws of yet another Final Drive Failure with the GS and with 60,000 miles on her I'm thinking I need to consider replacing her all together.

Don't get me wrong, I love this bike but this makes twice she's let me down.

[zippy_gg]

this makes twice she's let me down.I used to date a woman matching that description.:o :histerica

[messenger13]

Sorry to hear Dave.

I think the GS just got eliminated off of my "short list (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=321724&postcount=1)".

[mjac]

...........but this makes twice she's let me down.

That blows Dave. Me thinks BMW are off my short list too. I was considering cashing in the LT and the FJR for something GS like. The V Strom is inching its way to the top of the list.

[Lonewuff]

I can't believe you would dare interrupt all the current conspiracy theories with this BS problem with your bike Dave...what the hell do you think this sight is, YOUR pity party. Get the hell outta here with this crap, so we can discuss important stuff. :histerica

Oh, before I forget...that SUCKS!!! "Hello H-D..." ;)

[kk610lt]

I would just get it fixed and keep on enjoying the G/S.

V-Stroms are cool but not in the same class as the G/S in my opinion. Just rode my G/S-A 300 miles today....fantastic day on a great bike.
Keith

[mjac]

V-Stroms are cool but not in the same class as the G/S in my opinion.


Of course they are not in the same class. The V Strom doesn't have a final drive to fail, which is the point, in the context of this thread.

[MikeERideWNC]

Concourse 14
FJR1300
ST1300

I am starting to think BMW just cost to much for what they are.
They are no better than many other bikes and cost way more to maintain.

And don't even get my buddy with the RT started on maintance costs. He is pissed.

It sucks that your FD died. But no matter what you get, I will ride with you.

[Deek]

Of course they are not in the same class. The V Strom doesn't have a final drive to fail, which is the point, in the context of this thread.

But it does have that awful chain! The DL1000 V-Strom is an awesome motorcycle, but no where near as "good" as the GS IMHO. I hated messing with that chain on mine, and I only had 7k on the 'Strom when I sold it. Having said that, the Suzy costs about 1/3rd as much as the GS, so maybe you could put the dealer on retainer and just motor in every 300 miles or so and let them adjust and lube the chain for ya! :D

I am getting a little nervous with all this talk of the FD problems. Can anyone tell me the best way to avoid them? How can I check the fluid level, etc to be sure all's well back there? I've only had this bike for a few weeks so she still have mysteries to reveal to me.....................

[gglove]

I used to date a woman matching that description.:o :histerica
I once dated a girl who went down on me a few times and then I married her and then the gong down failed :D

[DaveDragon]

I can't believe you would dare interrupt all the current conspiracy theories with this BS problem with your bike Dave...what the hell do you think this sight is, YOUR pity party. Get the hell outta here with this crap, so we can discuss important stuff. :histerica

Oh, before I forget...that SUCKS!!! "Hello H-D..." ;)

That just ain't right. You a funny man.
"It's my pity party and I'll whine if I wan to, whine if I want to, whine if I want to. You would whine too if it happened to you."
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[motorman587]

Still believe it is rider error than motor error................LOL :)

[usmctpdog]

Ya know Dave,
If you get a V-Strom like I did, There will be nothing to complain or worry about.. Yes, I do deal with minor chain maintenance that takes a few minutes lubing for 15 seconds every 500 miles, but that is about it.. No FD failures, Clutch problems, EWS failures, etc.. Lots of Dealers, Just change the Chain every 20K +/- miles and your are done.. LOTS of VSTROMS are seeing OVER 100,000 Miles with nothing but alittle maintenance. oil and tire changes...
*It's just about CAN you deal with living without that BMW ~Cache~??

I am on my second DL1000, the first one a 2003 DL1000, a guy made me a great offer after We attended the WA BMW state rally. Have not had even 1 warranty issue with either DL1000. I have lots of farkles on it though and the BMW Garmin 2610 from my 05 LT is hard mounted on my VStrom..
I would be glad to answer any VStrom questions since your LT page was one I always admired before buying my 05 LT.
There are a fair amount of Ex-BMW guys on a Vstrom now, and on VStrom & Adventure rider forums....

[KMC1]

Sorry to hear your bike broke on you again.. and best of all in the middle of riding season :mad:
I wish Suzuki would put a shaft on the 'strom.
Or even better, that Honda would get in on the act and make a GS alternative.
Maybe a really cool little V4, about 1000cc's, 140+ mph, Tons of cornering clearance, skid plates, shaft, Triple disc ABS, Armored hard mounted bags, 600lbs luggage/passenger capacity, heated grips, heated seat, good wind protection, blue tooth, power outlets, GPS/XM/IPOD/EZ pass mounting, under 500lbs wet, under $10,000.00, 30+ inch seat height, serious lighting, off-road/on road adjustable suspension and best of all... HONDA reliability and resale value...not to mention dealer network....
BMW... if you're listening.... :think:

[DavidTaylor]

Of course they are not in the same class. The V Strom doesn't have a final drive to fail, which is the point, in the context of this thread.

Nor is a V-Strom as stable, versatile or able to cover vast distances as a GS. So you are correct, they are not in the same class.

[scurrie]

That just ain't right. You a funny man.
"It's my pity party and I'll whine if I wan to, whine if I want to, whine if I want to. You would whine too if it happened to you."
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
OK, that was cute, I'll give you a few points, as long as you keep it in writing and don't actually sing for us!

-Scott

[DaveDragon]

OK, that was cute, I'll give you a few points, as long as you keep it in writing and don't actually sing for us!

-Scott

I promis.

Just wondering if anyone else recalled the song. AKA Olde Pharts like me.

[Patric]

Snip >> Just wondering if anyone else recalled the song. AKA Olde Pharts like me.

Like this ?
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.guitaretab.com/g/gore-lesley/7150.html

[Jim]

Yep, Lesley Gore. I was in high school when it came out.

[ldbikin]

The ole FD failure I had on my 02 LTC is a distant memory with 110k on it now, along with all the other warranty fixes.

However, my 06 K12S is a different story.

Try TWO tranny replacements in a 12 month period, I've been out of my $21k bike for a total of 17 weeks just for that! Also had the shocks replaced with Ohlins while it was in there, since BMW decided to pick up the whole tranny bill (since the first replacement only lasted 18k miles, just like the 2nd one).

Not counting the final drive at 35K (had that replaced during the 36k service).

No sooner than I got my KS back, I put 500 miles on it and a coil died. I limped it to long beach BMW (thanks, great job!), new coil and plugs, another 400 bucks, 1.5 weeks w/out bike (dealers are busy right now).

Problem is, I just can't find anything comparable to ride like I do. I get comfort and point & shoot power/handling at the same time. I just did 2400miles on the KS this week, have another 400 to go sunday :eek:

I dunno, maybe I'd have this much trouble with any type of bike that is ridden as much, hard to say. It sure can get expensive though, I couldn't do this if I owned a cage on top of it.

the bike is a dream otherwise, therein lies the problem :cool:

[usmctpdog]

I am living proof as are MANY Vstrom owners doing both back country and LONG DISTANCE riding. While Suzuki did not invent the Adventure Tourer that BMW did, it made it better, more reliable and better handling with WAY LESS problems at less cost both in purchase and maintenance.
I just watched Long Way Down, all 3 GS12's completely BROKE their rear shock under NORMAL use conditions and had to be changed immediately before continuing. 1 shock might have been be bad but all 3?

The DL1000 is vastly & verifiably more reliable and able to do more than the GS does at less cost... That said on a BMW forum I am done.

[CharlieVT]

I'm curious, what exactly fails in a GS final drive? Is it the crown wheel bearing like the LT?

[messenger13]

Probably the biggest reason that I, as well as other long-distance tourer types won't consider the VStom is because it's chain-driven. I personally know of a few V-Strom owners that broke-down on trips due to chains breaking. Not to mention the typical maintenance that a chain requires. No thanks!

Chains are for sportbikes, and dirtbikes. A true long-distance touring machine with a chain? Umm ... I don't think so.

Just because BMW can't seem to make one without breaking doesn't mean that a driveshaft isn't the way to go. ;)

[DaveDragon]

Same as the LT and GT I suppose, plus the FD Input Shaft Bearing on some, this is what I suspect is the failure on my GS.

[Jim]

Probably the biggest reason that I, as well as other long-distance tourer types won't consider the VStom is because it's chain-driven. I personally know of a few V-Strom owners that broke-down on trips due to chains breaking. Not to mention the typical maintenance that a chain requires. No thanks!

Chains are for sportbikes, and dirtbikes. A true long-distance touring machine with a chain? Umm ... I don't think so.

Just because BMW can't seem to make one without breaking doesn't mean that a driveshaft isn't the way to go. ;)

Interesting.

Probably easier to carry a chain than a Final Drive.

A quick check of the 2007 Iron Butt finishers shows 3 DL1000's and 2 DL650's. No DNF's. But maybe these guys aren't quite as serious long distance riders as Joe. :histerica

[usmctpdog]

I would love for the VStrom to have a shaft final drive and ABS, but until
BMW does it better I have no problem oiling a chain for the peace of mind that it gives me.

If I were to build a perfect VSTROM it would include those 2 items.

I have even been looking at adding a K1200S to my stable
*Once they finally fix the EWS problem...grrrrrr.
What a PITA that must be..
My S/O is looking at getting a new 08 black FJR1300.

[Colyn]

Hmmm ... a shaft goes and it is blazened out as a FD Failure ... with emphasis on FAILURE ... replacing chains and sprockets every 20k or so is called MAINTENANCE ... ironic is it not ?

Both components is the single transfer component set of a powerfull engine output to the driving wheel ... or not ?

So both should be maintenance or both should be catastrophic failures ... no ?

[hoog62]

Hmmm ... a shaft goes and it is blazened out as a FD Failure ... with emphasis on FAILURE ... replacing chains and sprockets every 20k or so is called MAINTENANCE ... ironic is it not ?

Both components is the single transfer component set of a powerfull engine output to the driving wheel ... or not ?

So both should be maintenance or both should be catastrophic failures ... no ?

No...........

[Colyn]

Ok I see ... your logic seems to be ...

Replacing a chain and sprockets every 20k or so is acceptable but if a final drive should need maintenance or replacement it is unacceptable.

My personal experience is that final drives needs far less maintenance and or replacements than what chains and sprockets do. Reality is that if you do not maintain and replace your chain and sprockets it WILL fail rendering the bike motionless. So how do you explain the logics that one SYSTEM is a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE but on the other one it is simply acceptable maintenance.

Sorry ... I cannot see the logics in your argument.

[hoog62]

My personal experience is that final drives needs far less maintenance and or replacements than what chains and sprockets do. Reality is that if you do not maintain and replace your chain and sprockets it WILL fail rendering the bike motionless. So how do you explain the logics that one SYSTEM is a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE but on the other one it is simply acceptable maintenance.

Sorry ... I cannot see the logics in your argument.

Nor I in yours. Your original comparison was NOT a chain failure, but rather a well understood and expected limitation of the drive system. Now you change your position to a failure due to lack of maintenance. That still isn't a fair comparison to a properly maintained FD failing by no fault of the owner.

The last two iterations of the BMW final drive have proven to fail prematurely, by anybody's measure of expected longevity and especially against the standard set by other manufacturers. The "new" BMW drive was advertised as permanently lubricated, yet they started failing almost immediately.

I think a fair comparison would be a properly maintained chain set breaking in 5 thousand miles versus a "permanent" shaft drive imploding in 25 (or less).

[RVB1019]

Take it one step further- How much does it cost to replace a sprocket and chain? A couple of hundred and you can change it on your schedule? A failed FD w/o a warrenty- Over a thousand? Plus the added suprised break down element for added stress- Much better!:rolleyes:

That to me is a big part of the issue.

[justlookin]

What other choice is there???
I'm sorry I don't put the V-Strom in the same category as a GS..
I know I need to look into more, because I'd like to make a Alaska trip and I don't think my 97 is up for it..
I could like with the chain & sprocket, but does a V-Strom have the same riding position? Fuel capacity? Carry all the same gear? Off road (gravel) capabilities? I'm 6'5 the GS really seems to fit me, would a V-Strom?
They (V-Strom) are alot more affordable, I would guess..
Is there a good V-Srom website for this info?
Jeff

[usmctpdog]

Just Google V-Strom Riders International or VStrom, or adventure touring. That will take you to major forums where many folks have owned both GS'es and VStroms for review.

Just like lots LT owners came from the Harley community, LOTS of VStrom owners are former BMW GS owners, etc..

[nplenzick]

What other choice is there???
I'm sorry I don't put the V-Strom in the same category as a GS..
I know I need to look into more, because I'd like to make a Alaska trip and I don't think my 97 is up for it..
I could like with the chain & sprocket, but does a V-Strom have the same riding position? Fuel capacity? Carry all the same gear? Off road (gravel) capabilities? I'm 6'5 the GS really seems to fit me, would a V-Strom?
They (V-Strom) are alot more affordable, I would guess..
Is there a good V-Srom website for this info?
Jeff
From what I hear you'll see just as many V-Stroms as GS's if your headed to Alaska. I've had my 650 since March and it's just turned 2000 miles. I've adjusted the chain 3 times during that period and the truth is it probably only needed to be adjusted once. I lubed the chain with Belray chain lube each time. Most of the new chain lubes no longer fling off like the old ones use to do. Belray drys in a minute or so and turns the chain white. Adjusting and lube takes maybe 5 minutes. I owned a 05 1200 GS before I bought my LT and I could never get that bike to fit me properly, that low seat was the worst seat of any bike I ever owned. It's almost embarrassing to say since I'm really a BMW guy but this little 650 does all things my GS did and then some. The quality, fit and finish, performance meet or exceeded all of my expectations.
What's more interesting is I bought this bike to showcase some of the things we sell at the shows and rallies we do and I can tell you first hand it's done more to bring people into my booth then anything else I could have ever dreamed. It's not uncommon to have 6 or more people standing around the thing and this at a BMW rally!
The new 800 GS isn't shaft driven and if you compare that bike with a V Strom I think the Suzuki walks away a winner especially if you take the price into consideration.
I'm amazed that Suzuki doesn't publicize this bike, it's like their keeping it a secret.
Having said all of this I would see no reason what-so-ever why you couldn't ride your 97 GS up there, I would think it would be a great bike for that trip.
My favorite site for V Stroms is www.stromtrooper.com

[meese]

I feel for you, Dave. Three brand new BMWs, and three final drive failures for me. :brick:

[usmctpdog]

From the Strom Forum. 1 Vstrom bike - 120,000 problem free miles.

Here is the link to the previous 100,000 mile write up

http://11109.rapidforum.com/topic=103969480308

5 months and 1 week later it's time for the 120,000 mile review. During this time we finally had a part failure, well two if you want to count the stock battery dying. Yep at 38 miles past the big round 100K mileage number the front brake switch went out...

The stock battery that came with the K3 finally died @ 110,529 miles

Imagine that, in 120,000 miles only (so far) one broke part/failure for a total of $4.00.

Other maintenance performed from 100K to 120K:
6 oil changes/3 filter changes - Castrol 10X40 syntec/Fram filters
plug change @100,584
sprockets/chain @ 102,201
replaced front wheel bearings @ 105,519. One looked good, one needed replacement
rear brake pads EBC @ 110,356
front brake pads EBCHH @ 111,342

Two sets of tire changes during this time. It's now riding on Michelin Anakee front and a Dunlop D607 rear. I prefer the Tourances (not the EXP version) but I decieded to mix it up a bit.

5,900 miles of this came from a two week trip through 11 western states CO,MT,WY,ID,CA,WA,OR,AZ,UT,NV,NM and 2 Canadian providences BC and Alberta. Some high spots- covered Glacier NP, Icefields Pkwy, Lolo road, Mt Rainer, Mt St Helens, Crater lake, Redwood forrest, NV Hwy 50, Bryce NP. Temps ranged from 33 to 103F with a snowstorm on the Icefields Pkwy!! Only rode about 100 miles on the Interstate and did about 100 miles of unpaved roads on the trip.

-Kith

[dsauer608]

The new GS's don't even have a drain plug for the final drive, but now BMW recommends that the fluid is changed regularly, so it has to be "cracked open" (for lack of a better term). Pricey fluid change, and depending on your tech, how well does it all get put back together? A bit of a design flaw, eh? Crazy...

[brianf70]

Any thoughts on the Harley Buell Ulysses X612X looks similar to the GS, it is chain drive.

[DaveDragon]

The new GS's don't even have a drain plug for the final drive, but now BMW recommends that the fluid is changed regularly, so it has to be "cracked open" (for lack of a better term). Pricey fluid change, and depending on your tech, how well does it all get put back together? A bit of a design flaw, eh? Crazy...

The New Design Final Drive does have a drain plug at the bottom.

[tmgs]

I am in the throws of yet another Final Drive Failure with the GS and with 60,000 miles on her I'm thinking I need to consider replacing her all together.

Don't get me wrong, I love this bike but this makes twice she's let me down.
that KTMAdventure is real Tall, would fit you perfectly! , I can't even hardly tippy toe on it! , that or I could sell you a K1200lt reasonably! or a GS or a GSA

<grin>